Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 4 hours ago, Rigotz said: Most of us understand that he opted out of 2020 completely which left us completely unprepared at 1-tech, then he skipped most of camp, then wasn't available for large parts of 2021... in addition to being severely overpaid for his production. This is a fine topic. Let's get back to it. One loophole Beane might exploit w/ Star (heard this on a podcast) is that the $2.5M is guaranteed only if he attends 2022 camp. They can use this as a bargaining chip if Star wants to retire and doesn't want to go through camp -- he might be willing to negotiate on his way out and the Bills can restructure the $2.5M in a creative way to free up more 2022 cap. ? Lotulelei was here for 2021 Training camp. Also mandatory minicamp https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2021/08/bills-star-lotulelei-explosive-in-practice-on-day-10-of-training-camp-efe-obada-continues-sack-party-8-observations.html You may be thinking OTAs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97bills Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I hope they learn something with that contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigotz Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: ? Lotulelei was here for 2021 Training camp. Also mandatory minicamp https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2021/08/bills-star-lotulelei-explosive-in-practice-on-day-10-of-training-camp-efe-obada-continues-sack-party-8-observations.html You may be thinking OTAs? He skipped all of the voluntary practices in 2021 after sitting out in 2020. He wasn't in contact with anyone from the team during that time period either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterStrategist Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Beane and Co have been great building the overall roster, clearly nailed the most important position on the football field and then some. But as far as DL goes: 1. FA grade: D. Butler, Trent Murphy, and Star were horrible "values", huge cap implications. Phillips was a good pickup, and Addison so-so value. otherwise this was an epic failure. 2. Draft: still too early, but in the next season or so, those 4 1st/2nd round picks invested better turn into a top 10 dline. Oliver is turning a corner, IMO much more consistent. But AJ concerns me, as does Boogie, both lack any specific trait to dominate off the edge. Groot, with another offseason and growing into that large frame, I have no doubt he will continue to develop into a very good/consistent player for us. But DE is a tricky spot, takes time to develop counter moves. We are in a sweet spot, per say, of being able to reinvest FA money into this position group again with Butler, Hughes, and Addison off the books. I'd let Harry walk. Draft a 1 tech somewhere in the top 4 rounds, decently deep position this year. And go after a disruptive edge player in FA or via trading picks. 1. This team needs a more "physical/tough identity": I'd look to rebuild the middle of oline and Dline. 2 IOL and 1 tech DT. That's priority #1. 2. Need a consistent pass rush specialist. Either they have faith someone will make a big jump, or go get someone via trade if needed. 3. Wr: need a YAC guy, or at least someone who imposes big play ability. I'd love to get Kirk, but think we use our limited FA money elsewhere. I'd find a speedy slot in FA and a 1st or 2nd rounder, to pair with Diggs and Davis. Hopefully "Speedy" ready for the return role, and maybe Hodgins develops. Cut Beasley, unfortunately he's just lost 1-2 steps. 4. TE2: we desperately need someone, thankful we got by without Knox for a few weeks. But thinnest position on the team. 5. CB2: Tre will likely miss time to start, need a dependable corner to step in. If Levi comes back on a 1 yr deal, great. Otherwise its likely we use our 1st or 2nd rounder on CB, and look to find a bargain FA for depth. Then cut Mongo, Klein, Beasley (mentioned above), and Williams (is their a big cap hit?). Bring back Bates to compete and be depth, along with other backup types that won't break the bank. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 32 minutes ago, Rigotz said: He skipped all of the voluntary practices in 2021 after sitting out in 2020. He wasn't in contact with anyone from the team during that time period either. Your statement I was responding to was that he had skipped 2021 “camp” He did not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybrew1 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 We all gotta hope Beane never does anything like that Star contract again. OMG is it ever going to end? Why n gawds name did Beane do that? LOL! He is a decent player so I don’t really mind if he stays another year as long as he is working but…..??? that d a run contract…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donuts and Doritos Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Phillips resign will be a factor. But June 1st is the date to watch. If he's going, that's when it'll happen, to maximize savings. Interesting to see how he does in OTAs (if there's a lack of ability, availability or effort wonder if it forces a decision) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smuvtalker Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I have no problem with Star being a Buffalo Bill this upcoming season. The bottom line is, we were a better defense when he was in the lineup than when he wasn't, and I for one thought that his play was a tad improved later on in the season, noticeably getting after the QB moreso than run support, IMO. I highly doubt he accepts a pay cut, and wouldn't necessarily blame him if he didn't. But seeing as of right now the options we have other than Mr. Lotulelie, I'd much rather have him than nobody. Now if somehow we were able to land one Jordan Davis in the draft, I might say eff Star lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 19 hours ago, First Round Bust said: most of us want to move on from Star, but according to Joe B (Athletic - small extract below) likely have to keep one more year... warning lots of math and accounting ...not for those easily bored with facts and budgets who want to sign free sexy agents. We have just learned...because of his salary renegotiation before he opted out, $2.5 million of his base salary was automatically guaranteed for the upcoming season, now would be taking a dead-money cap hit of $7.7 million and basically robbing themselves of both the cap space and the player. due to only $700,000 in potential cap savings, it may not add up to releasing him outright. Bills can make the best of a difficult situation by negotiating a pay cut with Lotulelei for 2022. Even though Lotulelei’s play wasn’t as good late in the season, his value to the Bills is likely worth much more than $700k in cap space they’d save. By cutting and replace with someone who hasn’t been in their system or is inexperienced and likely at a similar cost to the cap space saved. That should be motivation enough to strike a renegotiated deal with Lotulelei. From the player’s perspective, as a 32-year-old, his best chance for maximizing his money is likely in Buffalo. base salary for 2022 is $6.15 million, $2.5 million of which is already guaranteed. If Bills ask Lotulelei to reduce that base salary by $1.5 million to $2 million and ensure the remainder, that would lock in Lotulelei between $4.15 million and $4.65 million guaranteed for the upcoming season with the chance to earn $350,000 more in per-game roster bonuses. Star likely would not come close to $4.15 million to $5 million on the open market and team already saves a minimum of $1.5 million on the 2022 salary cap, more than double what they would have saved by releasing him outright, plus they get to keep the player. Additionally, can convert all but around $1 million of that renegotiated salary into a signing bonus and prorate it over the next two seasons. A negotiated pay cut of $1.5 million and that base salary conversion would save Bills a total of around $3.3 million on the 2022 cap, more than quadruple what they would save by releasing Lotulelei outright. Reduces 2023 cap savings to move on from Lotulelei, they would still be able to save about $4.5 million to cut him next offseason...can kick the can down the road another year and not have to draft a DT with a higher pick this year given Oliver's ascension (likely to pick up option) Harry (hoping to resign) Zimmer (depth- rehab ACL) Bryan (resigned for two year not just one - two pressures on 15 pass rushes plus position flex) and now Star...other than mid-late round PS stash would could be poached by other teams They should start calling Star “Beane’s Folly” Worst contract in their regime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 20 hours ago, First Round Bust said: most of us want to move on from Star, but according to Joe B (Athletic - small extract below) likely have to keep one more year... warning lots of math and accounting ...not for those easily bored with facts and budgets who want to sign free sexy agents. We have just learned...because of his salary renegotiation before he opted out, $2.5 million of his base salary was automatically guaranteed for the upcoming season, now would be taking a dead-money cap hit of $7.7 million and basically robbing themselves of both the cap space and the player. due to only $700,000 in potential cap savings, it may not add up to releasing him outright. Bills can make the best of a difficult situation by negotiating a pay cut with Lotulelei for 2022. Even though Lotulelei’s play wasn’t as good late in the season, his value to the Bills is likely worth much more than $700k in cap space they’d save. By cutting and replace with someone who hasn’t been in their system or is inexperienced and likely at a similar cost to the cap space saved. That should be motivation enough to strike a renegotiated deal with Lotulelei. From the player’s perspective, as a 32-year-old, his best chance for maximizing his money is likely in Buffalo. base salary for 2022 is $6.15 million, $2.5 million of which is already guaranteed. If Bills ask Lotulelei to reduce that base salary by $1.5 million to $2 million and ensure the remainder, that would lock in Lotulelei between $4.15 million and $4.65 million guaranteed for the upcoming season with the chance to earn $350,000 more in per-game roster bonuses. Star likely would not come close to $4.15 million to $5 million on the open market and team already saves a minimum of $1.5 million on the 2022 salary cap, more than double what they would have saved by releasing him outright, plus they get to keep the player. Additionally, can convert all but around $1 million of that renegotiated salary into a signing bonus and prorate it over the next two seasons. A negotiated pay cut of $1.5 million and that base salary conversion would save Bills a total of around $3.3 million on the 2022 cap, more than quadruple what they would save by releasing Lotulelei outright. Reduces 2023 cap savings to move on from Lotulelei, they would still be able to save about $4.5 million to cut him next offseason...can kick the can down the road another year and not have to draft a DT with a higher pick this year given Oliver's ascension (likely to pick up option) Harry (hoping to resign) Zimmer (depth- rehab ACL) Bryan (resigned for two year not just one - two pressures on 15 pass rushes plus position flex) and now Star...other than mid-late round PS stash would could be poached by other teams Breane has been brutal signing free agents and overpaying, other than Beasley not many of the players he has signed have produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 if you wait to cut star: 2022 cap hit $9.22 2023 dead cap $2.60 total cap $11.82 2022 dead cap $7.70 actual savings $4 mil i say CUT HIM NOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTruster Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 16 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: One of the worst in Bills history? Utter nonsense. Doesn't even reach the same hemisphere as contracts like Charles Clay or Dockery, or even guys like Triplett, Langston Walker, Dwan Edwards, Percy Harvin, Robert Royal, or Brad Smith. Mark Anderson isn't well-remembered, but his was an awful deal. Shawne Merriman at least brought good feelings, but that was an awful deal. Do people remember that the Bills gave Kevin Kolb $13M for two years? Puh-leeze. That claim says a lot more about you than it does about Star in these inflated days. You're right that this regime has been pretty good. No awful contracts, really, which is why it's fair to say his contract is one of the worst for this group. Maybe even the worst. But not in the same ballpark as many many other from earlier GMs. hey if Star plays well for 14-15 games this season (and he has to ability to do exactly that), all will be forgiven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl2526 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Another early target at WR could be Treylon Burks. He's a big bodies WR kind of between DK Metcalf and AJ Brown. He should have around a 4.4 40 or better at over 230 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I don't think you are stuck with it but the dead cap hit makes it tough, he has value, maybe not at his cap hit but cutting him creates a hole and you still have the dead cap. I think he stays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 3 hours ago, papazoid said: if you wait to cut star: 2022 cap hit $9.22 2023 dead cap $2.60 total cap $11.82 2022 dead cap $7.70 actual savings $4 mil i say CUT HIM NOW He doesn't have a $7.7M dead cap if they designate him a post-June1 cut It drops to $5.2M with $4.1M savings this season and a $2.6 dead cap next year https://overthecap.com/player/star-lotulelei/2282/ 11 minutes ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said: I don't think you are stuck with it but the dead cap hit makes it tough, he has value, maybe not at his cap hit but cutting him creates a hole and you still have the dead cap. I think he stays. I don't know. But I do know that in looking for cap space to make our own moves in FA, Star isn't where the Bills will look, because the only way he has significant cap savings is if he's post-June 1 (in which case, his savings don't count until wait for it...post-June 1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 19 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said: Idc about the cap hit. I just want him off the team But, if they get rid of him, this roster will be completely bereft of Stars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: He doesn't have a $7.7M dead cap if they designate him a post-June1 cut It drops to $5.2M with $4.1M savings this season and a $2.6 dead cap next year https://overthecap.com/player/star-lotulelei/2282/ I don't know. But I do know that in looking for cap space to make our own moves in FA, Star isn't where the Bills will look, because the only way he has significant cap savings is if he's post-June 1 (in which case, his savings don't count until wait for it...post-June 1) True. It’s still not a huge savings though and would just be part of the cap space the Bills would save for moves during the season. If the Bills release Star it’ll be because they no longer want him here, not because they’re trying to save some cap space. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 30 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: True. It’s still not a huge savings though and would just be part of the cap space the Bills would save for moves during the season. If the Bills release Star it’ll be because they no longer want him here, not because they’re trying to save some cap space. Agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: He doesn't have a $7.7M dead cap if they designate him a post-June1 cut It drops to $5.2M with $4.1M savings this season and a $2.6 dead cap next year https://overthecap.com/player/star-lotulelei/2282/ Use the force Beane. Let go Beane...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 On 2/22/2022 at 3:05 PM, Thurman#1 said: One of the worst in Bills history? Utter nonsense. Doesn't even reach the same hemisphere as contracts like Charles Clay or Dockery, or even guys like Triplett, Langston Walker, Dwan Edwards, Percy Harvin, Robert Royal, or Brad Smith. Mark Anderson isn't well-remembered, but his was an awful deal. Shawne Merriman at least brought good feelings, but that was an awful deal. Do people remember that the Bills gave Kevin Kolb $13M for two years? Puh-leeze. That claim says a lot more about you than it does about Star in these inflated days. You're right that this regime has been pretty good. No awful contracts, really, which is why it's fair to say his contract is one of the worst for this group. Maybe even the worst. But not in the same ballpark as many many other from earlier GMs. Someone actually gave this post a 👎 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 On 2/23/2022 at 8:24 AM, ScottLaw said: For what team? We'll forgive him for playing well somewhere else?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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