How bad is it for Lesile Frazier?

[Don Otreply]

59 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Me too, i could easily make a team tank, id have John Skelton as my OC and frazier as my dc 😉

 

 

 

Frazier said this !?!? Do you have a link anywhere

 

 

It was in an interview a couple of months ago iirc, he did indeed say it, sorry I don’t have a link, 

[Buddy Hix]

Frazier should be a hot commodity, he’s the only DC who could stop Josh Allen this post season.

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Mahomes was seeing so much 2 high safeties that he wasn't prepared for single high and 8 in Coverage. Had Buffalo rushed 3 or even 2 with 13 seconds we win the game.

 

Heck don't rush anyone. Ugh.

They have to know Mahomes has to get rid of the ball at 2 seconds. Rushing 4 and even 3 would be such a stupid and wasteful decision. So why not double down and do it again. No pooch and back to back deep "prevents" definitely will define Sean McDermott's legacy. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

9 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

It was in an interview a couple of months ago iirc, he did indeed say it, sorry I don’t have a link, 

 

he should be fired just for that. This isn't the 80s, adjustments must be made all the time and not just at the half, no wonder is so involved with the defense, makes you wonder what Frazier actually does for this team.

 

what ever the case may be the defense needs to be more aggressive, this passivity has to stop.

 

 

[Don Otreply]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

he should be fired just for that. This isn't the 80s, adjustments must be made all the time and not just at the half, no wonder is so involved with the defense, makes you wonder what Frazier actually does for this team.

 

what ever the case may be the defense needs to be more aggressive, this passivity has to stop.

 

 

I was more than a bit taken back when I read the interview, as a player I would not be thrilled to say the least to hear my coach say this, being my paycheck depends on game outcomes. Again, I am surprised he said it, maybe it’s more common amongst coaches than we would think, just look at how many coaches are middling at best, this attitude might be more prevalent than we think…, 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Don Otreply

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just now, Don Otreply said:

I was more than a bit taken back when I read the interview, as a player I would not be thrilled to say the least to hear my coach this, bring my paycheck depends on game outcomes. Again, I am surprised he said it, maybe it’s more common amongst coaches than we would think, just look at how many coaches are middling at best, this attitude might be more prevalent than we think…, 

 

McDermott has made changes himself he needs that from Frazier , otherwise see ya.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

I was more than a bit taken back when I read the interview, as a player I would not be thrilled to say the least to hear my coach say this, being my paycheck depends on game outcomes. Again, I am surprised he said it, maybe it’s more common amongst coaches than we would think, just look at how many coaches are middling at best, this attitude might be more prevalent than we think…, 

 

He did not say he doesn't make adjustments. He said you don't just go to stuff you haven't practiced in the middle of a game totally away from your gameplan. 

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He did not say he doesn't make adjustments. He said you don't just go to stuff you haven't practiced in the middle of a game totally away from your gameplan. 

Coaches do make in game adjustments to their game plans as needed, we all know this to be the case. In fact, they win games implementing that tactic. It happens most every Sunday during several games.  In post game interviews coaches say as much, touting their prowess, that they made those adjustments. 

 

I’m not on a rampage to denigrate LF, I think he’s a good coach, and overall has done a pretty fair job, but he is not good at in game adjustments, if we are being honest, we have all witnessed this.

Go Bills!!!

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Coaches do make in game adjustments to their game plans as needed, we all know this to be the case. In fact, they win games implementing that tactic. It happens most every Sunday during several games.  In post game interviews coaches say as much, touting their prowess, that they made those adjustments. 

 

I’m not on a rampage to denigrate LF, I think he’s a good coach, and overall has done a pretty fair job, but he is not good at in game adjustments, if we are being honest, we have all witnessed this.

Go Bills!!!

 

I have spoken to coaches about this. While it is by no means universal there is a school of thought that you do not try and execute stuff you haven't practiced. Doesn't mean you never adjust, and the Bills have had games where they have adjusted well. But going to something that you never practiced mid game is harder than most fans acknowledge. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

On 2/8/2022 at 9:29 AM, ScottLaw said:

Well… he did say he doesn’t like to make adjustments to the game plan this past season …

Here is the interview you're probably thinking of where Frazier talks about not liking to make adjustments during games.

 

Start listening at 2:55 minutes. Then he talks again about hating to make adjustments at 6:45 minutes. Unbelievable stuff here. 

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

On 2/12/2022 at 6:28 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Mahomes was seeing so much 2 high safeties that he wasn't prepared for single high and 8 in Coverage. Had Buffalo rushed 3 or even 2 with 13 seconds we win the game.

 

Heck don't rush anyone. Ugh.

Yet... They were a 1/10 of a second from sacking Mahomes.

 

We're cursed...

[TBBills]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Here is the interview you're probably thinking of where Frazier talks about not liking to make adjustments during games.

 

Start listening at 2:55 minutes. Then he talks again about hating to make adjustments at 6:45 minutes. Unbelievable stuff here. 

 

 

He needs to go, bringing 1990's football thinking into 2022.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, TBBills said:

He needs to go, bringing 1990's football thinking into 2022.

Lol you didn't even listen to it.

[Don Otreply]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I have spoken to coaches about this. While it is by no means universal there is a school of thought that you do not try and execute stuff you haven't practiced. Doesn't mean you never adjust, and the Bills have had games where they have adjusted well. But going to something that you never practiced mid game is harder than most fans acknowledge. 

I would not advocate for a wholesale abandonment of a given game plan, that for the most part would be counterproductive.  
 

  For example, moving one’s DBs to play more press at a point during a game to stop a run of yardage gaining short passes so that your opponent can’t get into field goal range, and force an OT isn’t hard for a player to do, nor for a coach to implement, we are talking adjustments to the play calling part of a game plan not abandoning in totality said game plan.  
 

   It does starts to sound like a strawman argument on the coaches behalf to deflect a critique of in game play calling…, you know the thing that most fans call a game plan, 😁👍 nomenclature/ verbiage discrepancies aside…, 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

I would not advocate for a wholesale abandonment of a given game plan, that for the most part would be counterproductive.  
 

  For example, moving one’s DBs to play more press at a point during a game to stop a run of yardage gaining short passes so that your opponent can’t get into field goal range, and force an OT isn’t hard for a player to do, nor for a coach to implement, we are talking adjustments to the play calling part of a game plan not abandoning in totality said game plan.  
 

   It does starts to sound like a strawman argument on the coaches behalf to deflect a critique of in game play calling…, you know the thing that most fans call a game plan, 😁👍 nomenclature/ verbiage discrepancies aside…, 

 

The screw ups in the final 13 seconds were not on adjustments.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The screw ups in the final 13 seconds were not on adjustments.

Players were out of position according to Bruce Smith. McDermott says they practice that situation all the time.

 

I still believe Obada screwed up in some way. He looks at Kelce before the snap. I just feel like he blew an assignment.

[Don Otreply]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The screw ups in the final 13 seconds were not on adjustments.

Play calling and execution, are the likely cause, but as we all saw, our defense was ineffectual throughout the game, as shown by the opponents score, so one might consider “adjusting”  one’s defensive play calling to mitigate the lack of defensive effectiveness…, 😁👍 so yeah,  coach needed to make adjustments from the get go, and “seemingly” just stuck with a series of play calling/ game plan that was obviously not effective…, yes hind sight is awesome 😁 

 

Go Bills!!!

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Play calling and execution, are the likely cause, but as we all saw, our defense was ineffectual throughout the game, as shown by the opponents score, so one might consider “adjusting”  one’s defensive play calling to mitigate the lack of defensive effectiveness…, 😁👍 so yeah,  coach needed to make adjustments from the get go, and “seemingly” just stuck with a series of play calling/ game plan that was obviously not effective…, yes hind sight is awesome 😁 

 

Go Bills!!!

 

So could they have mixed some stuff up more against the Chiefs? Definitely. But their plan was to stay patient. That was the plan week 5, it worked and until the final 2 minutes it didn't do badly in the playoff game. You are right to say an obvious thing to do vs KC was to get more aggressive with the corners at the line. That is a personnel issue. They don't trust Wallace and Jackson to do that and recover if they get beat. 

[TBBills]

34 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Lol you didn't even listen to it.

No need to listen when you saw the games played out. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, TBBills said:

No need to listen when you saw the games played out. 

Lol oh boy. Watch more than the Bills. 

[TBBills]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Lol oh boy. Watch more than the Bills. 

It's OK be fooled by season stats over per game performance. 

 

He is not good enough anymore to call the plays needed to win when it counts most.

Edited February 13, 2022 by TBBills

[RyanC883]

when you blow a game with a horrific D play calling that goes against all logic and common sense it will be hard to get a job, esp when your D looked like that all season against average or above QB’s. 

52 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Players were out of position according to Bruce Smith. McDermott says they practice that situation all the time.

 

I still believe Obada screwed up in some way. He looks at Kelce before the snap. I just feel like he blew an assignment.

 

I get your point, but i call BS.  Bruce did not know what the call was and has never coached. Sean Payton and everyone with eyes (including Kelcie) noticed the middle wide open in a prevent mode and protecting sidelines with 13 sec left.  

Edited February 13, 2022 by RyanC883

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, TBBills said:

It's OK be fooled by season stats over per game performance. 

 

He is not good enough anymore to call the plays needed to win when it counts most.

What? Because they haven't figured out how to stop the Chiefs?

 

What's the alternative to Frazier? I really don't  see a defense loaded with talent either. If anything maybe changes to the DL coach. DL is probably the biggest disappointment on defense. But even Washington is one of the best DL coaches our there.

 

 

7 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

when you blow a game with a horrific D play calling that goes against all logic and common sense in the biggest spot you’re not getting a job.  

Again there were timeouts called. Both calls are on McDermott. They discussed exactly what they wanted there in that situation. 

[RyanC883]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

What? Because they haven't figured out how to stop the Chiefs?

 

What's the alternative to Frazier? I really don't  see a defense loaded with talent either. If anything maybe changes to the DL coach. DL is probably the biggest disappointment on defense. But even Washington is one of the best DL coaches our there.

 

 

Again there were timeouts called. Both calls are on McDermott. They discussed exactly what they wanted there in that situation. 

 

Frazier is the DC.  May be unfair if McD called the D, but we just don’t know.  

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I’m actually placing a bet for the Texans to go 0-17. Lovie is horrid

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Frazier is the DC.  May be unfair if McD called the D, but we just don’t know.  

They called timeout for discussion. They were in the defense McDermott wanted. Simple as that. Like McDermott said, they practice that situation all the time. 

 

That call was made months in advance. They had a plan for that situation and tried to execute that plan. It failed. We'll never know exactly what happened, according to Bruce Smith the players were out of position.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[RyanC883]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They called timeout for discussion. They were in the defense McDermott wanted. Simple as that. Like McDermott said, they practice that situation all the time. 

 

they may have practiced it, but it was horrendous positioning.  Payton agrees, Kelcie agrees, the results agree.  And McD can throw the players or vague “execution” around all he wants.  The play design sucked, was noted and exploited by the other teams TE.  

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Players were out of position according to Bruce Smith. McDermott says they practice that situation all the time.

 

I still believe Obada screwed up in some way. He looks at Kelce before the snap. I just feel like he blew an assignment.

 

They saw the situation, lined up, called a timeout, lined up same way, got torched.

 

Kelce told everyone this---in real time.  Twice.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

They saw the situation, lined up, called a timeout, lined up same way, got torched.

 

Kelce told everyone this---in real time.  Twice.

Yep. And I put that squarely on McDermott. You can't really put it on anyone else. I loved how Sean Payton talked about it. He's an offensive coach but knew the exact defense that the Saints would've called in that situation. That play call was determined before the game even happened.

[Logic]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Yep. And I put that squarely on McDermott. You can't really put it on anyone else. I loved how Sean Payton talked about it. He's an offensive coach but knew the exact defense that the Saints would've called in that situation. That play call was determined before the game even happened.

The only thing wrong with what Payton said is this: He claimed man coverage across the board should've been the call, but the Bills had been burned on a crossing route that went for a TD earlier in this game. They also lost to the Bucs in overtime on that crossing route to Perriman. My point being that I think the Bills were quite scared of being beaten on a walk-off TD due to one of the Chiefs' WRs outrunning and/or confusing Jackson or Wallace in man coverage, as we saw happen in this game and also earlier in the season.

I preferred Rex Ryan's idea: Zone coverage, not as deep as McDermott had them lined up, rush only two, and cover Kelce and Hill man-to-man underneath the zone coverage.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

The only thing wrong with what Payton said is this: He claimed man coverage across the board should've been the call, but the Bills had been burned on a crossing route that went for a TD earlier in this game. They also lost to the Bucs in overtime on that crossing route to Perriman. My point being that I think the Bills were quite scared of being beaten on a walk-off TD due to one of the Chiefs' WRs outrunning and/or confusing Jackson or Wallace in man coverage, as we saw happen in this game and also earlier in the season.

I preferred Rex Ryan's idea: Zone coverage, not as deep as McDermott had them lined up, rush only two, and cover Kelce and Hill man-to-man underneath the zone coverage.

I'm definitely calling man coverage with only 2 rushers. Dropping 9 DBs in coverage. 

 

But year any type of normal cover 3 or 4 works also. The Chiefs run that formation all the time. Multiple times they've run that formation and Wallace was in the face of Kelce. 

[TBBills]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

What? Because they haven't figured out how to stop the Chiefs?

 

What's the alternative to Frazier? I really don't  see a defense loaded with talent either. If anything maybe changes to the DL coach. DL is probably the biggest disappointment on defense. But even Washington is one of the best DL coaches our there.

 

 

Again there were timeouts called. Both calls are on McDermott. They discussed exactly what they wanted there in that situation. 

Any DC that doesn't run prevent garbage defense. Prevent defense has not worked in years but the old heads keep doing it b.c they don't know how to change a game plan.

Edited February 13, 2022 by TBBills

[Governor]

50 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They called timeout for discussion. They were in the defense McDermott wanted. Simple as that. Like McDermott said, they practice that situation all the time. 

 

That call was made months in advance. They had a plan for that situation and tried to execute that plan. It failed. We'll never know exactly what happened, according to Bruce Smith the players were out of position.

That’s the problem. It’s the wrong plan because our coaches stink.

[Mr. WEO]

25 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Yep. And I put that squarely on McDermott. You can't really put it on anyone else. I loved how Sean Payton talked about it. He's an offensive coach but knew the exact defense that the Saints would've called in that situation. That play call was determined before the game even happened.

Kelce was surprised no doubt

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Just was reading that Eric Bieniemy is undecided about coming back to Chiefs.  It could be a tactic to get more money from them or could be like Frazier, he's figured out he's not going to get a HC job when working in the shadows of Reid and Mahomes.  Just as I think that may be hurting Farziers chances too being tied to closely to McD. 

[billvernsays]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Players were out of position according to Bruce Smith. McDermott says they practice that situation all the time.

 

I still believe Obada screwed up in some way. He looks at Kelce before the snap. I just feel like he blew an assignment.

But why is a 2nd year player from the international exchange program in that position to begin with? 
 

there was a T/O called we should’ve had someone in that position who could’ve jammed Kelce, if he’s jammed that play doesn’t happen 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, billvernsays said:

But why is a 2nd year player from the international exchange program in that position to begin with? 
 

there was a T/O called we should’ve had someone in that position who could’ve jammed Kelce, if he’s jammed that play doesn’t happen 

That's the tough part. It doesn't make any sense. I think fans deserve an explanation as to what happened or what was supposed to happen.

 

[Bferra13]

8 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Just was reading that Eric Bieniemy is undecided about coming back to Chiefs.  It could be a tactic to get more money from them or could be like Frazier, he's figured out he's not going to get a HC job when working in the shadows of Reid and Mahomes.  Just as I think that may be hurting Farziers chances too being tied to closely to McD. 

One has already been a head coach with a 21 and 32 record and been fired from that gig whereas the other has never been afforded that opportunity. Frazier is vanilla as it gets be it HC or DC. He'd only be a placemat like Lovie is with the Texans, plus he's older. Bieniemy deserves a shot to show what he can do. Apples to oranges.

[billsfan1959]

21 minutes ago, Governor said:

That’s the problem. It’s the wrong plan because our coaches stink.

 

It's uncanny how your avatar so perfectly matches your posts.

 

Fascinating. Kind of like that phenomenon where people look like their pets....

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

It's uncanny how your avatar so perfectly matches your posts.

 

Fascinating. Kind of like that phenomenon where people look like their pets....

I don't understand how someone can say the Bills coaches stink. I was killing time responding but I'm done now. No point.