Allen refusal to throw underneath is killing us. Killing drives. This was on 17 strictly

[JerseyBills]

He refuses to just get a quick 6 7 yards to the RB or TE real quick, always looking to push and get the intermediate routes and he's phenomenal but you have to also take these easy 5 10 yard passes. 

He killed so many drives because of this.

D played phenomenal 

ST played phenomenal 

O played decent,  but Allen's refusal to throw underneath quickly, when you're facing a ton of pressure is his Worse trait and I love him for it at the same time but today it lost us what should have been a 2 TD win. He killed multiple drives directly because of this against one of the worse teams in the game. 

 

This one was on 17. 

 

You people refuse to admit or admit this fatal flaw. I know I'm going to get flack. I love 17 . Just being real. Giving my opinion.

 

Before you react, please watch footage of the all 22. Again, I'm a Bills and Allen fan til I'm in the ground! I'm just concerned his tendency to hold the ball is going to consistently hurt us. I wouldn't trade him for any other QB but I still worry about certain weaknesses in his game.

 

I say it n get trashed. I don't want to boast and want be anonymous but I make a living off coaching football. This is exactly what I'm talking about... 

If ppl knew my resume it'd be way different and that's ridiculous.  

I respect many members on here for their football acumen . Was hoping I'd get the same respect 

 

Edit - 12/26/21

He finally took the RB underneath!

Our O will be unstoppable if 17 keeps throwing like this in January!!!!

We're Back! 

Edited December 27, 2021 by JerseyBills

[Richard Noggin]

Got any specific examples to support this claim, champ? I like to learn.

[Big Blitz]

No.   

 

He actually did take the underneath stuff today and there was minimal yac 

 

Beasely and Singletary combined for 15 catches - for 76 yards.  

 

Cole had 8 catches for 33 yards.  

 

How's that even possible????

[pennstate10]

You’re clueless. 
 

Allen threw more underneath passes this game than ever before. 
 

at one point he had 11 straight completions for about 50 yds. 
 

[Maybe Someday]

I thought he took those underneath passes more today than usual. Singletary caught 7 for 43, Beasley 8 for 33. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Maybe Someday

[LEBills]

Josh does need to settle for the smaller plays sometimes. 
 

However this was a total offensive side of the ball loss.

From terrible blocking, to uninspired play calls, to average running, to drops and fumbles out of bounds. And of course, Joshs turnovers. Plenty of things need to change and Josh needs a lot more help.

[HappyDays]

Is this is a real thread? If anything we over relied on our check downs today because we had no choice. 14 targets out of 47 pass attempts went to Moss, Singletary, or Sweeney. That's about 30%. Are you saying you want more than 1/3 of our passes to go to the least dynamic players on our offense?

 

Every time Moss or Singletary or Sweeney caught the ball they were tackled almost instantly. We do not have a RB capable of accelerating and Sweeney is a huge drop off from Knox. We can't go 5-6 yards at a time all the way to the end zone. If we had a legitimate dynamic RB then yes that would be a more viable strategy.

Edited November 8, 2021 by HappyDays

[JerseyBills]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

No.   

 

He actually did take the underneath stuff today and there was minimal yac 

 

Beasely and Singletary combined for 15 catches - for 76 yards.  

 

Cole had 8 catches for 33 yards.  

 

How's that even possible????

HE HOLDS THE BALL TOO LONG

 

He has to hit them immediately,  his holding onto the ball to much is becoming a problem.

 

 

[Bruffalo]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

No.   

 

He actually did take the underneath stuff today and there was minimal yac 

 

 

This is a really good point that's lost in the shuffle. Our guys get basically no YAC, with Diggs being the exception. It's frustrating to see Beasley never break a tackle.  

[JerseyBills]

Just now, HappyDays said:

Is this is a real thread? If anything we over relied on our check downs today because we had no choice. 14 targets out 47 pass attempts went to Moss, Singletary, or Sweeney. That's almost 30%. Are you saying you want more than 1/3 of our passes to go to the least dynamic players on our offense?

 

Every time Moss or Singletary or Sweeney caught the ball they were tackled almost instantly. We do not have a RB capable of accelerating and Sweeney is a huge drop off from Knox. We can't go 5-6 yards at a time all the way to the end zone. If we had a legitimate dynamic RB then yes that would be a more viable strategy.

Dude he doesn't take the QUICK underneath 

He holds the ball 5 secs first. 

He Has to be more decesive on underneath routes. It's so plain to see!

1 minute ago, Bruffalo said:

This is a really good point that's lost in the shuffle. Our guys get basically no YAC, with Diggs being the exception. It's frustrating to see Beasley never break a tackle.  

Refer to above tweet 

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

HE HOLDS THE BALL TOO LONG

 

He has to hit them immediately,  his holding onto the ball to much is becoming a problem.

 

 

 

You're saying instead of waiting for the play to develop he should immediately toss a check down pass on every down? Yeah that still won't work. Because Moss and Singletary take more than a second to turn around and accelerate and by that time the defense is already swarming them. I am all for Allen being more willing to take checkdowns but that can't be our whole offense. This loss has people going so crazy they are missing Trent Edwards.

[Bruffalo]

2 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Dude he doesn't take the QUICK underneath 

He holds the ball 5 secs first. 

He Has to be more decesive on underneath routes. It's so plain to see!

Refer to above tweet 

I think that's an exaggeration but let's not pretend that Daboll's scheme is designed around getting the ball out quickly.

[ngbills]

I think OP is referring to the quick slant or cross. Not a wr or rb screen or a throwing underneath on broken plays etc.  it’s the quick take the snap and let it loose. 

[JerseyBills]

4 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

You’re clueless. 
 

Allen threw more underneath passes this game than ever before. 
 

at one point he had 11 straight completions for about 50 yds. 
 

Because he held the ball so long looking for deep or intermediate throws he has to get it underneath immediately. Holding the ball allows defenders to close in. 

He doesn't take what the D gives him alot more this year imo

[Big Blitz]

4 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Dude he doesn't take the QUICK underneath 

He holds the ball 5 secs first. 

He Has to be more decesive on underneath routes. It's so plain to see!

Refer to above tweet 

 

 

Coaches didn't expect the oline to not hold up like that.  

 

Coaches didn't expect as much blitzing as they got.

 

Allen failed to recognize some of those blitzes- check to the right protections and the right hot reads.  

 

The Coaches failed to see the oline needed help.   

 

I couldn't tell you who goes in the game with Sweeney if we want 2 TEs on the field or extra bodies to protect.   

 

 

 

We didn't take this team seriously.  

Edited November 8, 2021 by Big Blitz

[JerseyBills]

2 minutes ago, ngbills said:

I think OP is referring to the quick slant or cross. Not a wr or rb screen or a throwing underneath on broken plays etc.  it’s the quick take the snap and let it loose. 

THANK YOU!!!! Finally somebody understands. 

It's so obvious 

 

He needs 10 of these a game minimum.

He usually has 2-5

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Coaches didn't expect the oline to not hold up like that.  

 

Coaches didn't expect as much blitzing as they got.

 

Allen failed to recognize some of those blitzes- check to the right protections and the right hot reads.  

 

The Coaches failed to see the oline needed help.   

 

I couldn't tell you who goes in the game with Sweeney if we want 2 TEs on the field or extra bodies to protect.   

 

 

 

We didn't take this team seriously.  

Allen tries to throw the great,sexy play too often instead of the boring easy underneath stuff

Edited November 8, 2021 by JerseyBills

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

Because he held the ball so long looking for deep or intermediate throws he has to get it underneath immediately. Holding the ball allows defenders to close in. 

He doesn't take what the D gives him alot more this year imo

 

He is following his read progressions. If a play is designed to go to the RB in the flat he will get it to them fast. But we shouldn't be running a lot of those plays because - again - Moss and Singletary are slow and have no explosiveness. All that space you're seeing underneath is gifted to us by defenses because they know they have nothing to fear from our RBs. When Knox is back he will once again become our most viable check down option. Until then it is a win for the defense every time Moss or Singletary or Sweeney touch the ball. They are all below average football players. We aren't scoring TDs with that trio.

[John from Riverside]

Here’s a novel thought Josh was taking the underneath stuff for most of the day but the pass protection was so bad that they were on him practically whenever he took the hand off and they were taking away the underneath stuff do you think it could possibly also be that

Edited November 8, 2021 by John from Riverside

[Mark Vader]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You're saying instead of waiting for the play to develop he should immediately toss a check down pass on every down? Yeah that still won't work. Because Moss and Singletary take more than a second to turn around and accelerate and by that time the defense is already swarming them. I am all for Allen being more willing to take checkdowns but that can't be our whole offense. This loss has people going so crazy they are missing Trent Edwards.

This was a disgusting loss, and everyone, rightfully so, is pissed off about it. Yours truly included. BBFS is a real thing.

 

Given another day or two, almost everyone will get past it and getting ready for the Jets game.

[John from Riverside]

5 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

THANK YOU!!!! Finally somebody understands. 

It's so obvious 

 

He needs 10 of these a game minimum.

He usually has 2-5

Allen tries to throw the great,sexy play too often instead of the boring easy underneath stuff

Once again prove it

[Draconator]

17 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

HE HOLDS THE BALL TOO LONG

 

He has to hit them immediately,  his holding onto the ball to much is becoming a problem.

 

 

 

Then submit your application to One Bills Drive if you're so knowledgeable...

Edited November 8, 2021 by Draconator

[JerseyBills]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Once again prove it

I will...

You'll probably still be in denial

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

I will...

You'll probably still be in denial

I’m waiting

[What a Tuel]

28 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

He refuses to just get a quick 6 7 yards to the RB or TE real quick, always looking to push and get the intermediate routes and he's phenomenal but you have to also take these easy 5 10 yard passes. 

He killed so many drives because of this.

D played phenomenal 

ST played phenomenal 

O played decent,  but Allen's refusal to throw underneath quickly, when you're facing a ton of pressure is his Worse trait and I love him for it at the same time but today it lost us what should have been a 2 TD win. He killed multiple drives directly because of this against one of the worse teams in the game. 

 

This one was on 17. 

 

You people refuse to admit or admit this fatal flaw. 

 

I feel like he was doing that constantly actually....

 

Edit: By that I mean dumping it off to Singletary, Beasley and Moss before he went out. 

 

Beasley 8 catches for 35. Not taking the underneath? Cool Take.

Edited November 8, 2021 by What a Tuel

[JerseyBills]

6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I’m waiting

Takes a whole lot, unfortunately There's a few man. I need some time and I'm only doing the last 3 games. 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by JerseyBills

[par73]

 Screens and quick hitters are blitz beaters. Need designed plays to get the ball out fast. Generally not in Bills' game plan.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

Takes a whole lot, unfortunately There's a few man. I need some time and I'm only doing the last 3 games. 

 

So you’re only doing Mostly losses

[JerseyBills]

Just now, par73 said:

 Screens and quick hitters are blitz beaters. Need designed plays to get the ball out fast. Generally not in Bills' game plan.

We had them! OMG. Watch any 2 drives. Josh thinks he can out run or stiff arm everyone 

Just now, John from Riverside said:

So you’re only doing Mostly losses

Well I'm just doing the 3 latest games. Latest evidence 

He has been doing it all year.  

[What a Tuel]

Just now, JerseyBills said:

We had them! OMG. Watch any 2 drives. Josh thinks he can out run or stiff arm everyone 

 

What are you talking about?

 

Singletary 7 catches for 43 yards

Beasley 8 catches 35 yards

[JerseyBills]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

We had them! OMG. Watch any 2 drives. Josh thinks he can out run or stiff arm everyone 

Well I'm just doing the 3 latest games. Latest evidence 

He has been doing it all year.  

I just want to give u a quick example. 

I can do all year too

Just now, What a Tuel said:

 

What are you talking about?

 

Singletary 7 catches for 43 yards

Beasley 8 catches 35 yards

How many was he rolling out? 

He needs to get that ball to them in 2 seconds. 

[par73]

2 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

We had them! OMG. Watch any 2 drives. Josh thinks he can out run or stiff arm everyone 

Well I'm just doing the 3 latest games. Latest evidence 

He has been doing it all year.  

Did you see a screen?

[Brennan Huff]

He literally checked down like a hundred times

[What a Tuel]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

I just want to give u a quick example. 

I can do all year too

How many was he rolling out? 

He needs to get that ball to them in 2 seconds. 

 

Quite a few. And quite a few got us nothing. I'd argue a few times the quick pass to singletary with 1 half assed block in front of him killed more drives than Allen.

 

The O-line even 6 on 4 couldn't even give Allen more than 2 seconds. I can hardly believe you can consider putting this one on Allen. He makes mistakes when he does too much, as a lot of QBs do. Look at Stafford tonight.

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

We had them! OMG. Watch any 2 drives. Josh thinks he can out run or stiff arm everyone 

Well I'm just doing the 3 latest games. Latest evidence 

He has been doing it all year.  

If Josh doesn’t run or stiff arm out of those those are sacks how hard is it for you to understand that this offense of line is just not doing their job

[par73]

Even Allen, in his press conference, said he needed to get the ball out quicker sometimes. Quick hitters on designed plays will slow down a blitz.

[JerseyBills]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

If Josh doesn’t run or stiff arm out of those those are sacks how hard is it for you to understand that this offense of line is just not doing their job

They had a bad night. 

How do you not understand that's even more of a reason the ball should be out his hand in 2 seconds? 

[What a Tuel]

3 minutes ago, par73 said:

Even Allen, in his press conference, said he needed to get the ball out quicker sometimes. Quick hitters on designed plays will slow down a blitz.

 

Thats fine and all but thats also taking the blame for the O-line not giving him any time. He isn't going to outright blame them. 

 

And with that and this forum and bipolar fanbase imploding after a bad loss, I am going to call it a week for this.

 

Bills fans can be real ugly when we lose. (obviously not referring to you, just the state of the forum.) Its like people come out of the woodwork with a obsession with trashing everything.

Edited November 8, 2021 by What a Tuel

[JerseyBills]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

If Josh doesn’t run or stiff arm out of those those are sacks how hard is it for you to understand that this offense of line is just not doing their job

He shouldn't be in those positions alot of the time! The ball should have been out 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

They had a bad night. 

How do you not understand that's even more of a reason the ball should be out his hand in 2 seconds? 

No jersey they have had a bad season now we’re getting into the area of how do you know that the play calls are set up so that there is underneath routes because they are so bad how do you know that it’s not an OC problem

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

He shouldn't be in those positions alot of the time! The ball should have been out 

To who give examples

[JerseyBills]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

No jersey they have had a bad season now we’re getting into the area of how do you know that the play calls are set up so that there is underneath routes because they are so bad how do you know that it’s not an OC problem

I guess it's possible but I'm seeing guys wide open but instead of an easy short completion (so Dabol obviously has guys running these routes) the QB is passing em up !

Josh almost can't help himself but look for the big play.