AP exclusive: Bills propose new 60k seat stadium by (update - 2025)

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

CorrectA study was done but was never made available to the public. That’s the study she is referring to. 

 

This is what I don't get.  Pegula has already chosen where he wants it and no dome.  So the "study" may instead say: "no!  come downtown and we will build  a domed stadium for you at over 2 billion!"?

 

 

5 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Considering public funds will almost assuredly be used, probably accounting for the majority of the bill, and the county (state?) will own the stadium, the county/state might have more of a say on the stadium than we think.

 

More people will attend cold-weather games and “local” revenue will increase as a result.  In addition and in the same vein, the stadium could be used year round. 

 

 

What  happens to the local revenue when it gets cold in Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, NE....?

 

And, back to the "year round events" stuff?  Yes, think of all the lobby weddings and HS proms they could cash in on.  

 

 

4 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

NYC is pretty much broke after covid...Tons of people moved away and they are begging people to come back.

 

nah:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-05-01/new-york-city-covid-reopening-restaurants-art-culture-coming-back

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-14/manhattan-s-apartment-rebound-means-sweet-deals-are-fading-fast

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-13/nyc-toll-traffic-at-seven-year-high-as-americans-return-to-road

 

do you live in the city?

 

 

[LeGOATski]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

What  happens to the local revenue when it gets cold in Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, NE....?

 

And, back to the "year round events" stuff?  Yes, think of all the lobby weddings and HS proms they could cash in on.  

 

 

This is what I've been saying. Do people not realize that most of the successful franchises in this league are in cold weather areas with open stadiums? They act like the Bills are the only franchise "dumb" enough not to add a roof. Or that concerts can't be performed in open stadiums.

[DrDawkinstein]

21 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

PSE has already submitted a plan for a stadium and decided on Orchard Park--no roof. 

 

What study is the Governor referring to?

 

You say this like "submitting a plan" (to whom, btw?) makes it some sort of concrete law. It is simply what they currently think they might do, based on the funding they think they can secure.

 

That can all change during talks and negotiations with the state and local governments.

 

16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

This is what I don't get.  Pegula has already chosen where he wants it and no dome.  So the "study" may instead say: "no!  come downtown and we will build  a domed stadium for you at over 2 billion!"?

 

 

 

First thing he did was look into what it would take to have the stadium downtown. Their own study showed it would probably cost the State more than what PSE assumed the State would be willing to pay.

 

The State is running their own study to make sure that is true.

 

You know, due diligence.

[Mr. WEO]

45 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

This is what I've been saying. Do people not realize that most of the successful franchises in this league are in cold weather areas with open stadiums? They act like the Bills are the only franchise "dumb" enough not to add a roof. Or that concerts can't be performed in open stadiums.

 

That stadium has hosted 5 stadium concert acts......... in the past 6 years.  It has had only 67 shows in almost 50 years!   But yeah,  the shows will come rolling in when they get them fancy new suites!!

 

33 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You say this like "submitting a plan" (to whom, btw?) makes it some sort of concrete law. It is simply what they currently think they might do, based on the funding they think they can secure.

 

That can all change during talks and negotiations with the state and local governments.

 

 

First thing he did was look into what it would take to have the stadium downtown. Their own study showed it would probably cost the State more than what PSE assumed the State would be willing to pay.

 

The State is running their own study to make sure that is true.

 

You know, due diligence.

 

To whom?:

 

https://apnews.com/article/kathy-hochul-sports-nfl-business-buffalo-bills-77b347e94170316c76a9c9bd380b80ae

 

https://subscribe.buffalonews.com/e/limit-reached-bn?returnURL=https://buffalonews.com/news/local/bills-submit-plan-for-1-4-billion-60-000-seat-stadium-in-orchard-park/article_69add7aa-0a87-11ec-a627-f7620496aa3d.html

 

"The owners of the Buffalo Bills have submitted plans for a $1.4 billion, 60,000-seat stadium in Orchard Park to representatives of the state and Erie County"

 

It was a big story, in the papers and everything...

 

It's hard to conceive of a study that would, for the state, a downtown domed stadium---unless it concludes that Pegula has to pay the large majority of it.

 

 

 

 

 

[LeGOATski]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

That stadium has hosted 5 stadium concert acts......... in the past 6 years.  It has had only 67 shows in almost 50 years!   But yeah,  the shows will come rolling in when they get them fancy new suites!!

 

I assume the Pegulas still have an interest in the music industry. I remember reading about some of the acts managed under the PSE umbrella. I think they're all country acts.

 

If they want shows, they can certainly get more of them. A stadium built to accommodate big shows would make sense in that regard and would be something they could proudly pitch to interested parties.

[Bangarang]

Still hope we get a dome. I think the supposed weather advantage is vastly overrated. I want ideal conditions for Josh to sling the ball.

[LeGOATski]

7 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Still hope we get a dome. I think the supposed weather advantage is vastly overrated. I want ideal conditions for Josh to sling the ball.

The conditions are already there. Rules favoring the offense, a pass-heavy coordinator, and an awesome WR corps...

 

The same conditions Brady thrived in, yeah?

[Buffalo716]

19 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Still hope we get a dome. I think the supposed weather advantage is vastly overrated. I want ideal conditions for Josh to sling the ball.

Sure that is great for Josh 

 

But one of the bigger factors to think about.. is that , as much as Josh struggles in some bad weather rn 

 

The other teams quarterbacks absolutely struggle worse.. on a windy day when Josh is having trouble slinging it... Lamar Jackson is not going to be able to throw it in Buffalo .. especially outside the hashes

 

As much as it effects Josh it will effect the other team's quarterback more... Because he doesn't have as strong as an arm as Josh, guaranteed.. and it's taxing to throw through the weather all day 

 

But Josh neutralizes it more than any quarterback in the league.. may not always look pretty.. but he's at way less of a disadvantage then when other quarterbacks come into our environment

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Buffalo716

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

The conditions are already there. Rules favoring the offense, a pass-heavy coordinator, and an awesome WR corps...

 

The same conditions Brady thrived in, yeah?

 

Brady wasnt trying to hit that deep ball like Josh tho (minus the Moss year).

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

This is what I don't get.  Pegula has already chosen where he wants it and no dome.  So the "study" may instead say: "no!  come downtown and we will build  a domed stadium for you at over 2 billion!"?

 

considering Hochul has said that there is a study that they need to evaluate, that probably takes precedence over the Bills’ study. What are you not getting here?

 

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

What  happens to the local revenue when it gets cold in Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, NE....?

 

And, back to the "year round events" stuff?  Yes, think of all the lobby weddings and HS proms they could cash in on.  

More plausible then, say, double digit billionaires ready to buy the Bills, keep them in Buffalo and fully fund a new stadium…

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

This is what I don't get.  Pegula has already chosen where he wants it and no dome.  So the "study" may instead say: "no!  come downtown and we will build  a domed stadium for you at over 2 billion!"?

 

 

 

 

What  happens to the local revenue when it gets cold in Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, NE....?

 

And, back to the "year round events" stuff?  Yes, think of all the lobby weddings and HS proms they could cash in on.  

 

 

 

nah:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-05-01/new-york-city-covid-reopening-restaurants-art-culture-coming-back

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-14/manhattan-s-apartment-rebound-means-sweet-deals-are-fading-fast

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-13/nyc-toll-traffic-at-seven-year-high-as-americans-return-to-road

 

do you live in the city?

 

 

 its certainly better than it was but new york city is much further away from pre pandemic levels than anywhere else.  I live in the suburbs about 50 miles north 

[Mr. WEO]

23 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I assume the Pegulas still have an interest in the music industry. I remember reading about some of the acts managed under the PSE umbrella. I think they're all country acts.

 

If they want shows, they can certainly get more of them. A stadium built to accommodate big shows would make sense in that regard and would be something they could proudly pitch to interested parties.

 

Check out that "Black River Entertainment" talent stable.  They might appear on a full bill at a few state fairs, but as independent acts, they would struggle to fill a decent VFW post.

 

There just aren't many stadium sized tours going around for a stadium like Buffalo to make a tiny dent in the debt service of a new stadium (or for the current old one, for that matter).  High mark is stadium that can (like every other football stadium) easily accommodate big shows.  But clearly the big shows don't come to Buffalo.  Even if they did, it wouldn't much matter financially for the stadium owner..

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

considering Hochul has said that there is a study that they need to evaluate, that probably takes precedence over the Bills’ study. What are you not getting here?

 

More plausible then, say, double digit billionaires ready to buy the Bills, keep them in Buffalo and fully fund a new stadium…

 

 They wouldn't have to fully fund it for the state to come out better than they are about to from PSE's pitch. 

 

But ,yeah, there could be a study that concludes that the locals will gift Pegulas 50% more than they just asked for.  

 

lol

 

[DrDawkinstein]

23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

But ,yeah, there could be a study that concludes that the locals will gift Pegulas 50% more than they just asked for.  

 

lol

 

 

Let's be clear here. It isn't just "the locals" paying for the stadium. The money comes from the entire state. Including Albany, Syracuse, NYC and the downstate suburbs.

 

Don't make it sound like poor little Buffalo would be on the hook for this.

 

NYS is the 3rd richest state in the Union. The money is there. Friggin Minnesota made it work.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

They wouldn't have to fully fund it for the state to come out better than they are about to from PSE's pitch. 

 

But ,yeah, there could be a study that concludes that the locals will gift Pegulas 50% more than they just asked for.  

 

lol

LOL. There is no “they.”  The last time around there were just two billionaires and one didn’t even submit a serious bid.  
 

No, no one is buying the team for $2.5B+, keeping it in Buffalo and spending more on a new stadium than what the Pegulas were willing to chip-in, and got rejected. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Doc

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 8/31/2021 at 1:53 PM, RoyBatty is alive said:

Never happen.

 

It would be the smallest Super Bowl of all time.

 

WNY doesn't have the infrastructure for the game, not enough hotel rooms, bars, restaurants, etc, airport couldn't t even park all the planes.

 

And lets not even mention the weather possibility.

A lot of other places should be in line ahead of Buffalo to host one.. here are the other “never haves”

 

Baltimore

Carolina

Chicago

Cincinnati

Cleveland

Denver

Green Bay

Kansas City

New England

Philadelphia

Pittsburgh

Seattle

Tennessee

Washington

 

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Brady wasnt trying to hit that deep ball like Josh tho (minus the Moss year).

I think Brady's been super efficient with the deep ball. And he's hit more than enough in Orchard Park over the years. Josh has plenty still to learn.

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Check out that "Black River Entertainment" talent stable.  They might appear on a full bill at a few state fairs, but as independent acts, they would struggle to fill a decent VFW post.

 

There just aren't many stadium sized tours going around for a stadium like Buffalo to make a tiny dent in the debt service of a new stadium (or for the current old one, for that matter).  High mark is stadium that can (like every other football stadium) easily accommodate big shows.  But clearly the big shows don't come to Buffalo.  Even if they did, it wouldn't much matter financially for the stadium owner..

 

I get that you're WEO and argumentative is your schtick, but none of this matters to my point, which is simply that an open air stadium doesn't mean a multi-use goal is out of the picture.

 

That's the argument so many "pro-roofies" (yeah, I just came up with that. Trademarked.) lean on.

 

I know they currently have ***** acts. That doesn't mean they can't bring in bigger acts under different labels with the promise of a good venue. That's also good business for growing a better talent roster for their own label, if they say "hey, a perk to signing with us is that we can get you some opening gigs at bigger shows that could pay you more."

 

If they have the desire to do any of this, they can do it with an open stadium. It's not like there's no desire for big shows in WNY and the summer weather is great. It's not like going to an outdoor concert in Houston in the middle of summer, that's for sure.

[Solomon Grundy]

I’ve worked in the hospitality industry for many years in Buffalo. It’s always wanted to be a “convention” city. This starts by building a multifaceted, state-of-the-art  stadium in downtown Buffalo. Find investors to remake the beautiful facades of the older buildings into hotel rooms i.e. the Aloft, Marriott, etc. Utilize the beautiful waterfront and proximity to Niagara Falls/Canada as attractions. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Let's be clear here. It isn't just "the locals" paying for the stadium. The money comes from the entire state. Including Albany, Syracuse, NYC and the downstate suburbs.

 

Don't make it sound like poor little Buffalo would be on the hook for this.

 

NYS is the 3rd richest state in the Union. The money is there. Friggin Minnesota made it work.

 

Erie County is still paying for the renovations on the Ralph--likely as they also pay to demolish it.  County would own it, so they will have to kick in on top of whatever the state gives (my guess is the Governor will learn hard on the County to cough up a ton of it).

 

 

3 hours ago, Doc said:

LOL. There is no “they.”  The last time around there were just two billionaires and one didn’t even submit a serious bid.  
 

No, no one is buying the team for $2.5B+, keeping it in Buffalo and spending more on a new stadium than what the Pegulas were willing to chip-in, and got rejected. 

 

Well you don't know what they are offering to pay.  The only report published was "nothing".  So this statement is obviously false.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

I get that you're WEO and argumentative is your schtick, but none of this matters to my point, which is simply that an open air stadium doesn't mean a multi-use goal is out of the picture.

 

That's the argument so many "pro-roofies" (yeah, I just came up with that. Trademarked.) lean on.

 

I know they currently have ***** acts. That doesn't mean they can't bring in bigger acts under different labels with the promise of a good venue. That's also good business for growing a better talent roster for their own label, if they say "hey, a perk to signing with us is that we can get you some opening gigs at bigger shows that could pay you more."

 

If they have the desire to do any of this, they can do it with an open stadium. It's not like there's no desire for big shows in WNY and the summer weather is great. It's not like going to an outdoor concert in Houston in the middle of summer, that's for sure.

 

It's not argumentative--it's simple.  The stadium sized  concert tours just aren't out there in numbers.  Mentioning them over and over does not make them exist.  There are few, if any, stadiums the are using the actual stadium for a lot of non NFL events.   Pegula can't change that, nor can the County.

[LeGOATski]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

It's not argumentative--it's simple.  The stadium sized  concert tours just aren't out there in numbers.  Mentioning them over and over does not make them exist.  There are few, if any, stadiums the are using the actual stadium for a lot of non NFL events.   Pegula can't change that, nor can the County.

Huh? I'm guessing you just don't go to a lot of concerts...

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Huh? I'm guessing you just don't go to a lot of concerts...

If the only concerts you go to are stadium concerts at the Ralph, then you have been to a total of 5 since 2015.  Where are all of these stadiums shows?  Why hasn’t the county booked a ton of them over the past several years, if as you claim, there are so many just waiting to come to town?

[LeGOATski]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

If the only concerts you go to are stadium concerts at the Ralph, then you have been to a total of 5 since 2015.  Where are all of these stadiums shows?  Why hasn’t the county booked a ton of them over the past several years, if as you claim, there are so many just waiting to come to town?

Okay, you're talking about just the Ralph for some reason...

 

Irrelevant to what the Pegulas could try to do in a new stadium.

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Okay, you're talking about just the Ralph for some reason...

 

Irrelevant to what the Pegulas could try to do in a new stadium.

Who are they going to fill a stadium with?  What’s prevented them from doing these things since they have been at Highmark (if you prefer)? Why haven’t they been bringing in all these acts you figure are out there?  
 
Simple question. 
 

[LeGOATski]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

Who are they going to fill a stadium with?  What’s prevented them from doing these things since they have been at Highmark (if you prefer)? Why haven’t they been bringing in all these acts you figure are out there?  
 
Simple question. 
 

It sounds like you assume they're trying really hard but no one wants to come to Buffalo. The amount of shows around the country prove there are acts out there.

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

It sounds like you assume they're trying really hard but no one wants to come to Buffalo. The amount of shows around the country prove there are acts out there.

Definitely acts out there all over the country

 

But the amount of acts out there that could fill stadium shows are slim pickings 

 

The New stadium is going to be a football stadium 

 

I'm sure they will try to book a a few shows a year.. but there's not a lot of Acts filling up stadiums 

 

There's a huge difference between filling an arena like HSBC and a stadium like the Ralph

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

18 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

It sounds like you assume they're trying really hard but no one wants to come to Buffalo. The amount of shows around the country prove there are acts out there.

No I’m assuming there aren’t many stadium sized concerts touring NFL stadiums now.  Because their aren’t.

You’re struggling with this simple fact.  Pick a stadium. ATT in Dallas? One concert—next June.  Allegiant in Las Vegas….1 concert for the rest of 2021. 

 

[TheFunPolice]

All the arena rock groups are in their 70s so I wouldn't count on them. 

[LeGOATski]

24 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Definitely acts out there all over the country

 

But the amount of acts out there that could fill stadium shows are slim pickings 

 

The New stadium is going to be a football stadium 

 

I'm sure they will try to book a a few shows a year.. but there's not a lot of Acts filling up stadiums 

 

There's a huge difference between filling an arena like HSBC and a stadium like the Ralph

 

 

I think doing what Seattle did with the concert hall built into the stadium makes a ton of sense.

[Draconator]

The NCAA College Basketball 1st and 2nd rounds have had good success in Buffalo. If we had a Downtown stadium with a roof, I'm thinking Final 4. 

[Doc]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Well you don't know what they are offering to pay.  The only report published was "nothing".  So this statement is obviously false.

 
And you believe that report?  LOL!

Edited September 24, 2021 by Doc

[purple haze]

3 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

It sounds like you assume they're trying really hard but no one wants to come to Buffalo. The amount of shows around the country prove there are acts out there.

Stadium shows are few and far between.  You’re talking the top 1% of musical acts that can fill a stadium.  There might be 15 or so acts across genres and generations. And not all of those acts tour regularly enough to count on booking them as part of a plan to use the stadium for more than football.

 

it’s a stadium that will be meant for football, with the odd concert and alternative programming thrown in.  No, it doesn’t make sense to spend billions on a stadium, but it’s happening and is the cost of doing business with pro sports.  Stop trying to make it make sense and enjoy the fact that your team will be in its city of origin for future generations.

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

 
And you believe that report?  LOL!

 

So they opened a Polestar showroom on 66th Street.  Beautiful cars.  I test drove one and go back in to talk turkey.   Guy says "what do you think?".  I says "I love that car and I want it.   I will offer you no money at all and you will give it to me for nothing or I will take my business elsewhere".

 

I'm still waiting to hear back.  I'm not worried though, because I'm certain that anyone else who could afford to pay for the car will also offer them nothing for it as well!

[Doc]

47 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

So they opened a Polestar showroom on 66th Street.  Beautiful cars.  I test drove one and go back in to talk turkey.   Guy says "what do you think?".  I says "I love that car and I want it.   I will offer you no money at all and you will give it to me for nothing or I will take my business elsewhere".

 

I'm still waiting to hear back.  I'm not worried though, because I'm certain that anyone else who could afford to pay for the car will also offer them nothing for it as well!

Cool story (Polestar is like the XFL of electric cars). But it has nothing to do with the current situation. You bought a false claim. 

[Mr. WEO]

29 minutes ago, Doc said:

Cool story (Polestar is like the XFL of electric cars). But it has nothing to do with the current situation. You bought a false claim. 

 

Haven't bought it yet, waiting to hear back--maybe they are actually "studying" a "plan"...to give me even more than I was asking for!---like free lifetime maintenance!  Or a second car!  Right??

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Haven't bought it yet, waiting to hear back--maybe they are actually "studying" a "plan"...to give me even more than I was asking for!---like free lifetime maintenance!  Or a second car!  Right??

 

if they don’t give you what you want, take your business elsewhere. Sound familiar?

 

Again, you bought a lie because you wanted to. The real question is: why? And don’t make me laugh (again) by claiming “hero worship.”

 

[CountDorkula]

 

 

SO this just came out of Tempe, Arizona last week. They are building basically a compound for the same price as just a stadium.

 

Granted 19K seats V 60K you will see a cost difference, but something seems off.

 

More importantly, its privately funded. 

 

 

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/coyotes-put-in-1-7-billion-proposal-to-build-arena-in-tempe

 

TEMPE, Ariz. (AP) — The Arizona Coyotes have proposed a $1.7 billion development in Tempe that will include a hockey arena.

Renderings released Monday by the Coyotes include proposed restaurants, shops and apartments on a 46-acre tract of land near downtown.

The team said the arena would be funded by private investors, but would seek city sales tax revenues to help pay for $200 million in additional costs, including infrastructure work.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by CountDorkula

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

if they don’t give you what you want, take your business elsewhere. Sound familiar?

 

Again, you bought a lie because you wanted to. The real question is: why? And don’t make me laugh (again) by claiming “hero worship.”

 

That’s my plan.  There will be no shortage of dealers willing to give me a new car for next to nothing.  
 

What was the lie I bought?  

[UConn James]

16 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

 

 

SO this just came out of Tempe, Arizona last week. They are building basically a compound for the same price as just a stadium.

 

Granted 19K seats V 60K you will see a cost difference, but something seems off.

 

More importantly, its privately funded. 

 

 

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/coyotes-put-in-1-7-billion-proposal-to-build-arena-in-tempe

 

TEMPE, Ariz. (AP) — The Arizona Coyotes have proposed a $1.7 billion development in Tempe that will include a hockey arena.

Renderings released Monday by the Coyotes include proposed restaurants, shops and apartments on a 46-acre tract of land near downtown.

The team said the arena would be funded by private investors, but would seek city sales tax revenues to help pay for $200 million in additional costs, including infrastructure work.

The difference is materials and labor costs — 100% union will be mandated in anything NYS puts a dime into, and companies will / have to bid higher to cover the far higher taxes. You’re expecting them to just eat the tax differences? Everything is at a premium in NYS and the northeast.

Not to mention that there’s always a certain level of graft / kickbacks factored into big projects like this in the area. That’s just the reality.

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

That’s my plan.  There will be no shortage of dealers willing to give me a new car for next to nothing.  
 

What was the lie I bought?  

That they are offering to pay nothing.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

That they are offering to pay nothing.

Offered, doc.  
 

Thsts what we are discussing.  Opening offer was…nothing.