It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[Westside]

23 minutes ago, Governor said:

The next step is making all Medicare/Medicaid get it, the insurance companies will follow. That likely gets us to 90 percent vaccination. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-make-covid-19-nursing-home-staff-vaccinations-condition-receiving-medicare-2021-08-18/?utm_source=reddit.com

Or how about everyone on welfare?

[Governor]

8 minutes ago, Bidens_basement said:

Or how about everyone on welfare?

That’s what that is dingus. I would add SNAP, etc. That’s the next step.

[Westside]

Just now, Governor said:

That’s what that is dingus. I would add SNAP, etc. That’s the next step.

You didn’t say that moron. 

[Governor]

Just now, Bidens_basement said:

You didn’t say that moron. 

MEDICAID

[Westside]

Just now, Governor said:

MEDICAID

Not everyone on Medicaid is on welfare. 

[Governor]

5 minutes ago, Bidens_basement said:

Not everyone on Medicaid is on welfare. 

Medicaid IS welfare. SMH.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Governor

[Westside]

11 minutes ago, Governor said:

Medicaid IS welfare. SMH.

You do not have to be on welfare to receive Medicaid. It’s based on your income.

[Governor]

1 minute ago, Bidens_basement said:

You do not have to be on welfare to receive Medicaid. It’s based on your income.

Lol. So let me get this straight….the 1 guy on this board that’s continuously yelling about people on welfare is…..on welfare?

[Westside]

Just now, Governor said:

Lol. So let me get this straight….the 1 guy on this board that’s continuously yelling about people on welfare is…..on welfare?

Are you asking me if I’m on welfare? Lol, nope, far from it. 
Though growing up I definitely benefited from social services.

I’m actually retired, at age 55. I worked hard and made some good investments and saved. 
 

I have nothing against legitimate people who need welfare. 

[Governor]

7 minutes ago, Bidens_basement said:

Are you asking me if I’m on welfare? Lol, nope, far from it. 
Though growing up I definitely benefited from social services.

I’m actually retired, at age 55. I worked hard and made some good investments and saved. 
 

I have nothing against legitimate people who need welfare. 

Medicaid is welfare health insurance. For example, NJ has their own version of Medicaid called NJFsmilycare. NY has the same thing. That’s welfare HC. It’s free HC for low-income individuals. That is welfare.

 

Medicare is different.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 minutes ago, Governor said:

Medicaid is welfare health insurance. For example, NJ has their own version of Medicaid called NJFsmilycare. NY has the same thing. That’s welfare HC. It’s free HC for low-income individuals. That is welfare.

 

Medicare is different.

Administered at the state level, where it should be.  I like it

[Westside]

18 minutes ago, Governor said:

Medicaid is welfare health insurance. For example, NJ has their own version of Medicaid called NJFsmilycare. NY has the same thing. That’s welfare HC. It’s free HC for low-income individuals. That is welfare.

 

Medicare is different.

All people on welfare have Medicaid, not all Medicaid recipients are on welfare. If you make less than 18,000 I think, you’re eligible for Medicaid and probably food stamps. But you can still work. Welfare recipients are not encouraged to work. The one thing I hate about it.

[Governor]

10 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Administered at the state level, where it should be.  I like it

The difference is:

 

Federal Medicaid only covers people that have kids. Discrimination IMO. It rewards bad behavior (children)

 

The state Medicaid programs cover low-income single people also. Not available in red states.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Governor

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, Sundancer said:

 

I don't think it's a good idea but it can be implemented easily. Just do it using a secure app. NY has that Excelsior app. 

 

Is it foolproof? No. But it's idiotproof. For Bills games, you need your phone to get into Bills games already so everyone will have their phone. 

 

I expected mandatory testing before entry this year back when Trump put on the show of rapid testing and said we'd being doing hundreds of millions of those tests in a week. That was last fall, or should I say fail. 

 

 

Glad I don’t go to large venues.  You can stick that ***** where the sun don’t shine. Afraid of it get in your bubble.  I’ll stick with my small venue concerts. 

[Governor]

4 minutes ago, Bidens_basement said:

All people on welfare have Medicaid, not all Medicaid recipients are on welfare. If you make less than 18,000 I think, you’re eligible for Medicaid and probably food stamps. But you can still work. Welfare recipients are not encouraged to work. The one thing I hate about it.

There is no difference between the two. They’re the same thing.

[Westside]

2 minutes ago, Governor said:

There is no difference between the two. They’re the same thing.

Ok, if you say so. Don’t say that to someone who works full time making low wages they’re on welfare. Just sayin.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 minutes ago, Governor said:

The difference is:

 

Federal Medicaid only covers people that have kids. Discrimination IMO. It rewards bad behavior (children)

 

The state Medicaid programs cover low-income single people also. Not available in red states.

 

 

Which is fine. Red states don’t want it, let them vote not have it. Blue states want it, let them vote to pay for it.
 

Now you are starting to understand the idea of a federal republic. 

[Governor]

18 minutes ago, Bidens_basement said:

Ok, if you say so. Don’t say that to someone who works full time making low wages they’re on welfare. Just sayin.

But they are on welfare. Food stamps is welfare. If you make 9 bucks an hour and work at Walmart, you’re eligible for welfare.

 

There is no different version of welfare for some “other” group where the government hands out fresh $1000 bills to people. The new Biden chid tax credit is a program to address child hunger. WIC is a welfare program.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Governor

[Sundancer]

1 hour ago, nkreed said:

CDC has done some massive dancing in your link. First describing breakthroughs as 

 

'For the purpose of this surveillance, a vaccine breakthrough infection is defined as the detection of SARS-CoV-2 RNA or antigen in a respiratory specimen collected from a person ≥14 days after they have completed all recommended doses of a U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized COVID-19 vaccine.'

 

However, when they give a number it's

'CDC received reports from 49 U.S. states and territories of 8,054 patients with COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infection who were hospitalized or died.'

 

That's a massive goalpost shift. Now if we all CLEARLY understand these breakthroughs as 'severe enough to cause hospitalization or death' than that low number is right.

 

With that said, however, the number of breakthrough cases is much higher. Pfizer looks to be less effective against Delta, close to 1 in 2 vaccinated may become infected and pass the virus on. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/08/12/mayo-clinic-covid-breakthrough-risk-may-be-much-lower-with-moderna-vaccine-than-pfizer.html

 

I wish that this was a one off study, but I don't think it is. A study in Massachusetts found that 74% of the COVID cases found in the study were in fully vaccinated people.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/pdfs/mm7031e2-H.pdf

 

My point isn't to scare anyone, but to read a little bit more into what you are seeing. The major Delta strain multiplies faster than our bodies immune system can respond, along with a shorter incubation period so that you can spread the disease.

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure it's massive dancing. It's the data they are reporting on. Tracking breakthrough cases will always under-report because there will be asymptomatic and low symptom cases. (Same as unvax low symptom cases are hard to track.)

 

Vaccines are preventing hospitalizations and deaths on a massive scale.  

 

Oh, and cases too, but that data is coming from other studies that have been linked. 

 

Some faith-based chicken little types here that vaccines don't work after 6 months but data and science say otherwise. 

 

Keep watching the data. It's evolving. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Sundancer

[JaCrispy]

Was the vaccine ever intended to stop the contracting/spread of the virus? 
 

I always thought the vaccine was only intended to mitigate symptoms...

 

And, if the vaccine was never intended to stop the contracting/spread of the virus, why is it labeled as a “breakthrough” if it is contracted?

 

Just kind of seems like word manipulation to me to create a narrative about the vaccine that may not be true...

 

Honest questions and thoughts...feel free to correct me if I’m wrong...

[Big Blitz]

41 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

 

 

Keep watching the data. It's evolving. 

 

 

 

We have been since February 2020.

 

Hasn't stopped mass stupidity, child abuse, the denial of science, and insanity.

 

 

But yea.....we just gotta get to 90% vaccinated and this all ends.........by 2045.

 

 

They are stringing you sheep and the rest of us along to a place I don't think anyone understands.  We're at a point especially considering events of this last week to start asking if our entire government is compromised.  You thought for 4 years that Trump was with Russia.  Ok cool.

 

We ready to start asking when did China takeover the U.S. government? 

 

Because nothing makes any sense.  There is no eradication happening.  This was obvious 18 months ago.  

 

And the pro vaxxer crowd (at first they were the pro lockdown crowd, then mask cult, now it's "yo vaccine passports are totally the way to go!" crowd) has no clue what they're doing or what's happening and it's dangerous because they are over half the adults in this country.  

 

This country is so deranged that Garth Brooks decides to virtue signal (he was at inauguration I'm sure he's not compromised either) like a good CCP subject and essentially tell the country "we shouldn't be doing anything" in the process.  

 

 

2020:  Covid Part I

2021:  Delta 

2022: Lambda 

2023: ??  Pick your variants going forward that emerge in every 3rd world country on the planet for the next 15 years

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Big Blitz

[nkreed]

22 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

Not sure it's massive dancing. It's the data they are reporting on. Tracking breakthrough cases will always under-report because there will be asymptomatic and low symptom cases. (Same as unvax low symptom cases are hard to track.)

 

Vaccines are preventing hospitalizations and deaths on a massive scale.  

 

Oh, and cases too, but that data is coming from other studies that have been linked. 

 

Some faith-based chicken little types here that vaccines don't work after 6 months but data and science say otherwise. 

 

Keep watching the data. It's evolving. 

I agree that vaccines are preventing hospitalizations and deaths. However we should clearly define our terms here. 

 

However I cited two papers that show breakthroughs are happening at the less than severely I'll level and that the vaccine isn't a silver bullet for stopping the spread. I get two does not a pattern make, but we need to be realistic about their role.

 

We need to stop sensationalizing the vaccines as the one stop cure and teach people how to slow the spread of illness. Say what the vaccines are good for: preventing you from getting seriously ill from the virus. It doesn't mean you can't be spreading COVID.

 

COVID is also evolving. Delta has evolved enough to force sub-lineage changes AY.1- AY.3 and to divide them further again. But that's not my point, my point is that studies are starting to show that vaccinated persons are likely spreading COVID at higher rates than thought. And that calls for the healthcare community community to relook at the best ways to slow the spread and slow the mutations.

 

 

 

 

[nkreed]

14 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Was the vaccine ever intended to stop the contracting/spread of the virus? 
 

I always thought the vaccine was only intended to mitigate symptoms...

 

And, if the vaccine was never intended to stop the contracting/spread of the virus, why is it labeled as a “breakthrough” if it is contracted?

 

Just kind of seems like word manipulation to me to create a narrative about the vaccine that may not be true...

 

Honest questions and thoughts...feel free to correct me if I’m wrong...

Point 1

I was under the impression that Cuomo said in NY it's the golden bullet that will prevent deaths and stop the spread. I also know that based on the CDC's response to vaccinations and their making guidelines they had the exact same thoughts.

 

Point 2

It's labeled as breakthrough because the mRMA vaccines were marketed as 94-95% effective from getting COVID. Breakthroughs are for those who do get COVID after a certain time period after full dosage (14 or 28 days after second ***** dependant on who you speak to). If the amount of fully vaccinated persons who contact COVID stays at 5%, well that's perfectly reasonable. It's when you start hitting double digits that the efficacy of the initial vaccine has gone down.

 

And some may be out there to create narratives. I just want people to see facts, not just propaganda ( be it from whatever side is coming from)

[Big Blitz]

What do we know about the future of breakthrough infections and Delta?

 

How long will the boosters last for the old and immunocompromised vs Delta?  Then for the population as a whole.

 

Can you still catch Delta if fully "boosted?"

[Big Blitz]

States banning mask mandates could face civil rights probes

 

 

In an escalating battle with Republican governors, 

 

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-health-coronavirus-pandemic-5943b43e54f61861e65d8cb74f3a68f1

 

 

 

Full f...ing stop.  

 

How about "in our continued quest to try end eradicate the virus like we did the Taliban, angry old man threatens States that refuse to deny science."  

 

Sham.  

Edited August 19, 2021 by Big Blitz

[JaCrispy]

9 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

States banning mask mandates could face civil rights probes

 

 

In an escalating battle with Republican governors, 

 

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-health-coronavirus-pandemic-5943b43e54f61861e65d8cb74f3a68f1

 

 

 

Full f...ing stop.  

 

How about "in our continued quest to try end eradicate the virus like we did the Taliban, angry old man threatens States that refuse to deny science."  

 

Sham.  

Lol...civil rights? Isn’t that another name for individual liberty? 😎

I thought the modern Left didn’t believe in that...😉

Edited August 19, 2021 by JaCrispy

[Big Blitz]

It's true.  Google it and it only takes you to the AAP home page.  I kept digging and I'm sick to my stomach.  Count the AAP as compromised.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Depending on what you search and how you'll find info.....not from the AAP.  They immediately take you to their home page where this greets you:

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Governor]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

It's true.  Google it and it only takes you to the AAP home page.  I kept digging and I'm sick to my stomach.  Count the AAP as compromised.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Depending on what you search and how you'll find info.....not from the AAP.  They immediately take you to their home page where this greets you:

 

Oh for God’s sake.

[Big Blitz]

46 minutes ago, Governor said:

Oh for God’s sake.

 

 

The CDC we KNOW is compromised....the sham continues.  

 

 

 

 

The AAP and CDC "recommendations not really they're demands" gave cover to schools to continue the evil of not letting the kids especially K-5 go to school as normal.  

[TtownBillsFan]

6 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

 

We have been since February 2020.

 

Hasn't stopped mass stupidity, child abuse, the denial of science, and insanity.

 

 

But yea.....we just gotta get to 90% vaccinated and this all ends.........by 2045.

 

 

They are stringing you sheep and the rest of us along to a place I don't think anyone understands.  We're at a point especially considering events of this last week to start asking if our entire government is compromised.  You thought for 4 years that Trump was with Russia.  Ok cool.

 

We ready to start asking when did China takeover the U.S. government? 

 

Because nothing makes any sense.  There is no eradication happening.  This was obvious 18 months ago.  

 

And the pro vaxxer crowd (at first they were the pro lockdown crowd, then mask cult, now it's "yo vaccine passports are totally the way to go!" crowd) has no clue what they're doing or what's happening and it's dangerous because they are over half the adults in this country.  

 

This country is so deranged that Garth Brooks decides to virtue signal (he was at inauguration I'm sure he's not compromised either) like a good CCP subject and essentially tell the country "we shouldn't be doing anything" in the process.  

 

 

2020:  Covid Part I

2021:  Delta 

2022: Lambda 

2023: ??  Pick your variants going forward that emerge in every 3rd world country on the planet for the next 15 years

 

 

You're pretty freaking crazy, aren't you?  Garth Brooks is compromized, b/c he didn't mask-up?  He's for the CCP, b/c he didn't mask up?  Check your crazy, please!  He's an Oklahoman, who won't buy into BS b/c the government tells us to.  He's a individual thinker;  not one that does anything b/c the Goverment says to do so.  He's about the most opposite of what you're suggesting!  Good grief, get a grip!

 

[TtownBillsFan]

6 hours ago, nkreed said:

I agree that vaccines are preventing hospitalizations and deaths. However we should clearly define our terms here. 

 

However I cited two papers that show breakthroughs are happening at the less than severely I'll level and that the vaccine isn't a silver bullet for stopping the spread. I get two does not a pattern make, but we need to be realistic about their role.

 

We need to stop sensationalizing the vaccines as the one stop cure and teach people how to slow the spread of illness. Say what the vaccines are good for: preventing you from getting seriously ill from the virus. It doesn't mean you can't be spreading COVID.

 

COVID is also evolving. Delta has evolved enough to force sub-lineage changes AY.1- AY.3 and to divide them further again. But that's not my point, my point is that studies are starting to show that vaccinated persons are likely spreading COVID at higher rates than thought. And that calls for the healthcare community community to relook at the best ways to slow the spread and slow the mutations.

 

 

 

 

Here's the deal:  Covid-19 is another Flu-strain.  You're going to get it, or you're not.  That's kinda up to how much you try to avoid such things.  Eventually, EVERYONE is going to be exposed to it.  You may get it, might not;  but you can't live your life avoiding some strain of the FLU that we're all exposed to, DAILY, if we're out in normal life.  SO, either accept that you might be exposed, or life your life in fear.  ***** OFF if you think it's anything else.  NOTHING ANY of us can do will change that we're going to be compromised in some way!

[Sundancer]

2 hours ago, TtownBillsFan said:

You're pretty freaking crazy, aren't you?  Garth Brooks is compromized, b/c he didn't mask-up?  He's for the CCP, b/c he didn't mask up?  Check your crazy, please!  He's an Oklahoman, who won't buy into BS b/c the government tells us to.  He's a individual thinker;  not one that does anything b/c the Goverment says to do so.  He's about the most opposite of what you're suggesting!  Good grief, get a grip!

 

 

Big Blitz used a story about a specific child's death from Covid to make a political point, and tripled down on it, questioned the child's death on the day the mother was grieving. He's a piece of *****.

 

And yes, also crazy. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Sundancer

[oldmanfan]

3 hours ago, TtownBillsFan said:

Here's the deal:  Covid-19 is another Flu-strain.  You're going to get it, or you're not.  That's kinda up to how much you try to avoid such things.  Eventually, EVERYONE is going to be exposed to it.  You may get it, might not;  but you can't live your life avoiding some strain of the FLU that we're all exposed to, DAILY, if we're out in normal life.  SO, either accept that you might be exposed, or life your life in fear.  ***** OFF if you think it's anything else.  NOTHING ANY of us can do will change that we're going to be compromised in some way!

It is 10 times deadlier than flu.  The amount of ignorance on this board is staggering.

[All_Pro_Bills]

28 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It is 10 times deadlier than flu.  The amount of ignorance on this board is staggering.

Like all other viruses, the potential for severe illness and death depends on your personal risk profile including the presence or absence of specific co-morbidities and health issues.  Even in younger people.  So the 10x number might be misleading and COVID death rates are skewed towards the elderly on the age curve.  Every person needs to make a sensible assessment for themselves and the members of their families with the assistance of their physician.       

 

But for COVID-19, the use of medical knowledge and facts applied by professionals like doctors and researchers has been suspended while scientific debate and discovery has been suppressed and discouraged.  And replaced by credentialed idiots and politicians making mostly arbitrary and subjective decisions enforced by threats of violence and penalties.  While not providing a lot of information or insights into the policy and then changing it at their whim again without any explanation.  Not exactly a policy aligned with the concept of positive reinforcement.  And not seeming to take into account the impact of these policies on any other aspect of life.  A policy best described as "shut up and do what we say or else".

 

I'm not opposed to vaccination or mandates or some form of rational public health policies.  When they make clear medical sense and in the context of accounting for other factors, benefits,  and consequences.  But what I am opposed to is all the petty dictators that are popping up in Mayors and Governors issuing edicts and proclamations through self-provided authority.  Rather than executive or administrative  edicts this requires some open and rational debate among members of city councils and State legislatures (and the national level if needed) hearing all views and listening to medical experts from all perspectives rather than all these mini-Hitlers threatening anyone that doesn't toe their line.    

 

[Bockeye]

6 hours ago, Governor said:

Oh for God’s sake.

You seriously aren’t concerned or alarmed that organizations are taking down past research to push the mask narrative? At least don’t think it’s a little odd or even subversive?

 

59 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It is 10 times deadlier than flu.  The amount of ignorance on this board is staggering.

It’s not 10x deadlier. Good grief!

[Big Blitz]

4 hours ago, TtownBillsFan said:

You're pretty freaking crazy, aren't you? 

 

 

No.  Been right about everything and the current status quo only worse is the next 3 to 5 years of your life, minimum.  

 

You think they're rolling out vaccine passports and mandates because they expect things to be "under control" ever?  

 

Nope.  

 

Quote

 

 

Garth Brooks is compromized, b/c he didn't mask-up?  He's for the CCP, b/c he didn't mask up?  Check your crazy, please!  He's an Oklahoman, who won't buy into BS b/c the government tells us to.

 

He's the opposite because he canceled his tour. 

 

 

Quote

Good grief, get a grip!

 

 

 

I've had a firm grip on what your "leaders" will do since April 2020.

 

Entering 19 months to slow the spread.  Year 3 coming up.   

Edited August 19, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Sundancer]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

It is 10 times deadlier than flu.  The amount of ignorance on this board is staggering.

 

And more contagious. And new. 

 

But besides that...

[Big Blitz]

Sold. 

 

Super serious plague everyone!

 

 

 

Man.  Why don't they just say:

 

"Get the vaccine.  Get your life back."

 

 

Lolololololololol

 

Are you "fully boosted" yet?

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Irv]

CDC - Centralized Democrat Control

 

What a mess

[Sundancer]

14 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Like all other viruses, the potential for severe illness and death depends on your personal risk profile including the presence or absence of specific co-morbidities and health issues.  Even in younger people.  So the 10x number might be misleading and COVID death rates are skewed towards the elderly on the age curve.  Every person needs to make a sensible assessment for themselves and the members of their families with the assistance of their physician.       

 

But for COVID-19, the use of medical knowledge and facts applied by professionals like doctors and researchers has been suspended while scientific debate and discovery has been suppressed and discouraged.  And replaced by credentialed idiots and politicians making mostly arbitrary and subjective decisions enforced by threats of violence and penalties.  While not providing a lot of information or insights into the policy and then changing it at their whim again without any explanation.  Not exactly a policy aligned with the concept of positive reinforcement.  And not seeming to take into account the impact of these policies on any other aspect of life.  A policy best described as "shut up and do what we say or else".

 

I'm not opposed to vaccination or mandates or some form of rational public health policies.  When they make clear medical sense and in the context of accounting for other factors, benefits,  and consequences.  But what I am opposed to is all the petty dictators that are popping up in Mayors and Governors issuing edicts and proclamations through self-provided authority.  Rather than executive or administrative  edicts this requires some open and rational debate among members of city councils and State legislatures (and the national level if needed) hearing all views and listening to medical experts from all perspectives rather than all these mini-Hitlers threatening anyone that doesn't toe their line.    

 

 

Not much to disagree with here. 

 

The problem is so many people opposed to the mini-Hitlers as you call them mix their opposition to them with bad science. See Big Blitz and Timmy and many others here. Covid is serious. Vaccines make a difference. Widely used good masks make a difference too. We should not allow government to rush to control decisions unless the situation is extremely dire. In this crisis, I'd say March/April 2020 justified extreme measures. And maybe right now in Florida, Texas, Alabama you could justify measures while the hospitals struggle. Maybe.