Highmark stadium cleared for full capacity

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, No Place To Hyde said:

I'm wearing masks either way. 

 

Has nothing to do with vax/no vax or fear of the virus. I have just aquired way too many really sweet looking Bills masks over the last year to have them not be worn in stadium as game day gear. And they will be nice come colder weather as well.

 

I can't see wearing one in August or Sept. Being out with a mask on when the temps are in the 80's and 90's just isn't comfortable.

[Albany,n.y.]

Erie County still wants 100% vaccinations:

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/erie-county-if-you-want-to-see-a-bills-game-in-person-you-still-need/article_a0bfc082-cf81-11eb-967d-23fe7b803176.html

New York State may have given the Buffalo Bills the green light to fill up stadium seats at 100% capacity without restrictions, but Erie County hasn't.

County Executive Mark Poloncarz is not changing his position that the only Bills fans who can attend games in person are those who are fully vaccinated.

"Right now I do not have any change to report in our position on the Bills’ fan attendance issue," said Poloncarz's spokesman Peter Anderson. "With well over two months to go until the opening game, it seems reasonable that there should be enough vaccinated people by that time to have a 100% vaccinated attendance."

He again repeated the message of county leaders urging all residents to get vaccinated.

Whether this directive will change as it gets closer to the official start of the season remains to be seen. 

[Buffalo716]

18 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Erie County still wants 100% vaccinations:

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/erie-county-if-you-want-to-see-a-bills-game-in-person-you-still-need/article_a0bfc082-cf81-11eb-967d-23fe7b803176.html

New York State may have given the Buffalo Bills the green light to fill up stadium seats at 100% capacity without restrictions, but Erie County hasn't.

County Executive Mark Poloncarz is not changing his position that the only Bills fans who can attend games in person are those who are fully vaccinated.

"Right now I do not have any change to report in our position on the Bills’ fan attendance issue," said Poloncarz's spokesman Peter Anderson. "With well over two months to go until the opening game, it seems reasonable that there should be enough vaccinated people by that time to have a 100% vaccinated attendance."

He again repeated the message of county leaders urging all residents to get vaccinated.

Whether this directive will change as it gets closer to the official start of the season remains to be seen. 

I don't think he has that power without legislation.. he solely can't be the one making all the shots I assume 

 

There has to be proper channels for county and State legislature

Edited June 18, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Albany,n.y.]

47 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think he has that power without legislation.. he solely can't be the one making all the shots I assume 

 

There has to be proper channels for county and State legislature

He might be able to.  The County owns the building & he is the county's CEO.  The policies allow businesses to make their own COVID rules.  However, his plan might fall apart on the basis that he's letting unvaccinated players in, so he can't say that it's a fully vaccinated facility.  

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

He might be able to.  The County owns the building & he is the county's CEO.  The policies allow businesses to make their own COVID rules.  However, his plan might fall apart on the basis that he's letting unvaccinated players in, so he can't say that it's a fully vaccinated facility.  

It's a tricky subject I would assume.. sure he's the county executive but that doesn't make him the county czar 

 

There has to be some process I assume.. 

 

And I think the bisons having  unvaccinated fans sets a precedent.. even if segregated

Edited June 18, 2021 by Buffalo716

[YoloinOhio]

10 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think he has that power without legislation.. he solely can't be the one making all the shots I assume 

 

There has to be proper channels for county and State legislature

I think the Bills are the ones who make the final call? They have always said that they will abide by state and local legislation but if Jordan poyer and cole beasley’s wife want to go to the game and aren’t vaccinated are the Bills going to say that they can’t? I wonder how that will work especially because I’m not aware of other outdoor venues with these restrictions. 

[Albany,n.y.]

14 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's a tricky subject I would assume.. sure he's the county executive but that doesn't make him the county czar 

 

There has to be some process I assume.. 

 

And I think the bisons having  unvaccinated fans sets a precedent.. even if segregated

Segregating fans means fewer fans in the stadium.  Fewer fans means less revenue.  There were 7,271 fans at the Yankees/Blue Jays game Wednesday & 7,288  last night.  That's less than half capacity & even when they go to 95% vaccinated & 5% unvaccinated, they'll still only be at 80% capacity.  

 

Why should the Bills lose 20% of their gate revenues when they can fill the stadium completely just to satisfy a minority of fans who refuse to get vaccinated?

 

As far as I'm concerned, fill it to capacity without segregation.  The vaccinated fans aren't in danger. 

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Albany,n.y.

[Buffalo716]

7 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think the Bills are the ones who make the final call? They have always said that they will abide by state and local legislation but if Jordan poyer and cole beasley’s wife want to go to the game and aren’t vaccinated are the Bills going to say that they can’t? I wonder how that will work especially because I’m not aware of other outdoor venues with these restrictions. 

Technically Erie county owns the stadium so Erie county makes the rules but it has to fall in line with state law

 

But state overrides county and it always has.. so if NYS says we're good , we should be good

 

 

 

 

 

[Albany,n.y.]

42 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

What about the thousands of season ticket holders who don't have a vaccine?  Maybe 10 thousand, 20 thousand 

 

Do they lose their tickets?

 

I got vaccinated so I don't have to worry about unvaccinated people.. if it doesn't work , why get it? The point of vaccines are so both populations ( vac + unvac) can co exist

 

Not remove one from society

 

If the unvaccinated want to go & sit with everybody else, so be it.  But if they are causing segregation & the team is going to lose 10-20k fans per game it might as well be them.  They're the ones in danger, not you or I.  If they want to take their chances go ahead & let them in but don't segregate them & bump me out of my seat that I bought as a single game.  Full capacity should be full capacity, not 80%. 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, Albany,n.y. said:

If the unvaccinated want to go & sit with everybody else, so be it.  But if they are causing segregation & the team is going to lose 10-20k fans per game it might as well be them.  They're the ones in danger, not you or I.  If they want to take their chances go ahead & let them in but don't segregate them & bump me out of my seat that I bought as a single game.  Full capacity should be full capacity, not 80%. 

I can absolutely agree to this

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think he has that power without legislation.. he solely can't be the one making all the shots I assume 

 

There has to be proper channels for county and State legislature

 

It's a good question, @Buffalo716.  It probably gets pretty general and political pretty quickly so I'll try to tread carefully.

 

Historically, matters of public health were left as Local control > State > Federal and not requiring specific legislation.  Made sense historically - disease outbreaks were usually local, and half the county could be infected while the state legislature was still driving its buggies to the state Capitol.  Local officials were at-hand and could act effectively and immediately for the health needs of the local area. 

 

For Covid, NYS clearly took the position that State law overrode any Local regulations in imposing then lifting restrictions.  One would think that principle would apply to Stadium capacity. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think he has that power without legislation.. he solely can't be the one making all the shots I assume

 

Making all the shots....I see what you did there Yukyuk TeeHee

 

[Punching Bag]

6 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Segregating fans means fewer fans in the stadium.  Fewer fans means less revenue.  There were 7,271 fans at the Yankees/Blue Jays game Wednesday & 7,288  last night.  That's less than half capacity & even when they go to 95% vaccinated & 5% unvaccinated, they'll still only be at 80% capacity.

 

Why should the Bills lose 20% of their gate revenues when they can fill the stadium completely just to satisfy a minority of fans who refuse to get vaccinated?

 

Charge unwashed masses extra and make sure they have legal options to those who falsify vaccination proof (big thing in Europe) to collect damages including attorney fees.

[The Dean]

6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Technically Erie county owns the stadium so Erie county makes the rules but it has to fall in line with state law

 

But state overrides county and it always has.. so if NYS says we're good , we should be good

 

 

 

I'm not sure the state law dictates you HAVE to open everything up. It ALLOWS you to open up.  Does state law dictate you can't bring water bottles into a stadium? I highly doubt it, but the Bills prevent it. Does the state dictate ticket prices? I think the team, and the county have a LOT of leeway over what they can do.

 

However, the only likely "truth" here is, if and when the Bills actually say you must be vaccinated to attend (and  if the state protests), the courts will decide the issue. Then we'll find out.

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by The Dean
No edit

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

I'm not sure the state law dictates you HAVE to open everything up. It ALLOWS you to open up.  Does state law dictate you can't bring water bottles into a stadium? I highly doubt it, but the Bills prevent it. Does the state dictate ticket prices? I think the team, and the county have a LOT of leeway over what they can do.

 

However, the only likely "truth" here is, if and when the Bills actually say you must be vaccinated to attend (and  if the state protests), the courts will decide the issue. Then we'll find out.

 

Like me and hapless were saying earlier it's a tricky subject

 

There's no State policy on water bottles. Hence why the county can make that decision

 

But the stadium is owned by Erie county.. taxpayers from Erie county funded it.. and New York State government said it's allowed to open as a outdoor venue 

 

I would imagine the county would lose in court. Because they're going against state protocol , in a taxpayer funded venue.. it's not completely private

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Dean]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Like me and hapless were saying earlier it's a tricky subject

 

There's no State policy on water bottles. Hence why the county can make that decision

 

But the stadium is owned by Erie county.. taxpayers from Erie county funded it.. and New York State government said it's allowed to open as a outdoor venue 

 

I would imagine the county would lose in court. Because they're going against state protocol , in a taxpayer funded venue.. it's not completely private

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's my point. ALLOWED doesn't mean REQUIRED. But yes, it's complicated and would likely end up in court. I wouldn't make any predictions about the outcome.

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

 

That's my point. ALLOWED doesn't mean REQUIRED. But yes, it's complicated and would likely end up in court. I wouldn't make any predictions about the outcome.

Yes if you're using that exact wording allowed doesn't mean required

 

But as I said it was paid for by taxpayers. And there's already been precedent of the bluejays opening.. even if it's separated.. it sets a precedent

 

Which is owned by the City of Buffalo and technically under control of Erie county 

 

If it was completely private 100% pegula could do whatever he pleases.. but it's taxpayer paid for so there are a lot more holes to jump through 

 

I think it's a very interesting issue.. the curve being flattened over the next 5 months is another thing to think of

 

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Buffalo716

[The Dean]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yes if you're using that exact wording allowed doesn't mean required

 

But as I said it was paid for by taxpayers. And there's already been precedent of the bluejays opening

 

Which is owned by the City of Buffalo and technically under control of Erie county 

 

If it was completely private 100% pegula could do whatever he pleases.. but it's taxpayer paid for so there are a lot more holes to jump through

 

 

 

 

Yes, that's why it is complicated. But I don't think NYS rules micromanage what the county and the team decide to do. Non vaccinated people are NOT a protected group---yet. So I don't think a discrimination suit would work---yet. If the County/Bills really do try to enforce that  rule, there will be lawsuits I suspect.  Probably several.  Break out the popcorn!

[Punching Bag]

13 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Yes, that's why it is complicated. But I don't think NYS rules micromanage what the county and the team decide to do. Non vaccinated people are NOT a protected group---yet. So I don't think a discrimination suit would work---yet. If the County/Bills really do try to enforce that  rule, there will be lawsuits I suspect.  Probably several.  Break out the popcorn!

 

People can sue for anything, even breaking out the popcorn because they are allergic.  

That is why there are laywers.  Does not mean much.

[RyanC883]

funny, I clicked on this wondering why YOLO posted about a soccer stadium in Pittsburgh.  Forgot Bills is named Highmark now.  

[Billsguy]

On 6/15/2021 at 5:56 PM, BillnutinHouston said:

My question, will they require proof of vax for those not wearing masks?

I would guess that they are counting on the decency and honesty of those who enter the stadium. Hopefully, these people are less selfish and self centered to consider the welfare of others. If only certain players would share the same respect for others. It's not about me, me, me all the time. Other people matter!

[machine gun kelly]

7 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

Can’t wait to celebrate our Bills, maskless with all my fellow season ticket holders. Full capacity to yell, scream, drink, be rowdy. Missed you guys last year!!

 

Let’s go!! Flaming tables, knocked over porta potties. It’s going to be grand!!

You make tailgating in Buffalo look like this…

 

That’s eball in the uniform. 😁

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 6/17/2021 at 7:48 PM, Albany,n.y. said:

Erie County still wants 100% vaccinations:

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/erie-county-if-you-want-to-see-a-bills-game-in-person-you-still-need/article_a0bfc082-cf81-11eb-967d-23fe7b803176.html

New York State may have given the Buffalo Bills the green light to fill up stadium seats at 100% capacity without restrictions, but Erie County hasn't.

County Executive Mark Poloncarz is not changing his position that the only Bills fans who can attend games in person are those who are fully vaccinated.

"Right now I do not have any change to report in our position on the Bills’ fan attendance issue," said Poloncarz's spokesman Peter Anderson. "With well over two months to go until the opening game, it seems reasonable that there should be enough vaccinated people by that time to have a 100% vaccinated attendance."

He again repeated the message of county leaders urging all residents to get vaccinated.

Whether this directive will change as it gets closer to the official start of the season remains to be seen. 

 

News Flash!

 

Poloncarz has changed his view based on data

(Or been re-educated by his legal team, whichever you believe)

 

 

[Logic]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

News Flash!

 

Poloncarz has changed his view based on data

(Or been re-educated by his legal team, whichever you believe)

 

 

Phew! I was almost gonna feel much safer attending a Bills game there for a minute. Close one!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Because He was told he legally had no right

😂😂😂😂

 

I'm not sure that's actually true - depends on details of NYS law I sure wouldn't know

 

But supposing there is the local control written in there somewhere - right now, with a 7-day rolling average of 0.3% positive tests in WNY, 0.75 per 100,000 new cases in WNY - it would be pretty dang hard to make a case for a WNY-specific public health situation that would justify exercising it.

 

"Pick your Battles"

 

https://forward.ny.gov/percentage-positive-results-region-dashboard

[BillsFan4]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

News Flash!

 

Poloncarz has changed his view based on data

(Or been re-educated by his legal team, whichever you believe)

 

 

You’re welcome unvaccinated Bills fans.

 

-all of us vaccinated WNYers.

 

😂

Very cool that there were ZERO new covid cases in Erie county yesterday. Amazing!

 

Obviously if we have a wave of new cases come flu season/winter, this attendance policy is most likely going to change. But it’s nice to see how effective the vaccines have been, and that things can start getting back to normal. 

[RiotAct]

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

You’re welcome unvaccinated Bills fans.

 

-all of us vaccinated WNYers.

 

😂

Very cool that there were ZERO new covid cases in Erie county yesterday. Amazing!

 

Obviously if we have a wave of new cases come flu season/winter, this attendance policy is most likely going to change. But it’s nice to see how effective the vaccines have been, and that things can start getting back to normal. 

that’a what scares me a little.  What constitutes a “wave of new cases”?  Going from  a 7-day rolling average of 6 to, say, 35???

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 hours ago, RiotAct said:

that’a what scares me a little.  What constitutes a “wave of new cases”?  Going from  a 7-day rolling average of 6 to, say, 35???

 

Well, logically to me, the thing to do would be to look at the requirements for re-opening and flip them

https://forward.ny.gov/metrics-guide-reopening-new-york

There was nothing in the original reopening guidelines about absolute number of cases or cases per 100,000.     I would think it's still hospitalization trends/availability that should be monitored.

 

Example: In Springfield MO right now it's un-ambiguous.  Hospitalization rates in the affected areas are surging, the Covid ICUs have reopened, and the hospitals are warning that they can't hire extra staff and may have to divert patients. 

 

I would think it would have to be a situation like that, not just a glitch in the 7 day rolling average that could occur from say, a big family reunion that all got traced and contained.

 

Two things running in WNY favor to avoid such problems: 1) higher vax rates - Green County above 37%  for1-dose and surrounding counties %  in the teens and 20's 2) NYS actually does contact tracing as opposed to MO where most Health Departments ran up the white flag months ago.

 

But who knows? 🤷‍♂️

[Locomark]

I am not worried about full stadiums, since people who it concerns just likely won’t go or can wear a mask. I worry more about a half vaccinated team where’s some players could conceptually cause key teammates to miss games that could cost us a few wins and our shot at a Super Bowl. Imagine if Josh gets it and we have to have Mitch for 3 games. We could even lose to the Jets!! Something that could actually be avoided. 

[Mr. K]

On 6/15/2021 at 9:49 PM, Bangarang said:

I’m worried about Josh playing in full stadiums again

He still looks good in shorts so he has that going for him

[YoloinOhio]

 

[dpberr]

I don't think the county, or any organization for that matter, wants to be on the hook for providing an implied level of safety from a virus on the premises, especially one that hosts an event where people tend to drink a lot...and yell and scream. I think "reasonable protection" could take on enough definitions to be problematic.   

 

Unless you have every fan sign a very specific waiver before entering, if you say "hey, we're only allowing vaccinated fans in the stadium" and then, by chance, you have an outbreak that can be traced to that game where someone or some people get really ill, I feel you're in undiscovered territory from a liability standpoint as the owner of the facility.  I wouldn't want to be there.  

 

In the vaccine world, no one involved is on the hook for product liability, so I'm sure when cooler heads think about it, they don't want to be the one party that inadvertently puts itself on the hook.  

 

Dropping that requirement lets the county wash their hands of the entire issue.   You attend games at your own risk, as you always have.  

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 6/15/2021 at 9:49 PM, Bangarang said:

I’m worried about Josh playing in full stadiums again

Reasonable based on comments about kc noise impact on the offense.
 

I also wonder if the crowd energy might over amp him up too and cause a little resurgence of hero ball. We will see I guess. 

[Bangarang]

10 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Reasonable based on comments about kc noise impact on the offense.
 

I also wonder if the crowd energy might over amp him up too and cause a little resurgence of hero ball. We will see I guess. 

I was 97% joking about that.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Just now, Bangarang said:

I was 97% joking about that.

But that 3% though 😆 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

I was 97% joking about that.

 

But you were 3% not joking, right?  I'm kind of in the same place.

[Bangarang]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

But you were 3% not joking, right?  I'm kind of in the same place.

Id be lying if I said I wasn’t at least a tiny bit nervous to see how Josh does when the stadiums are full and loud again.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Locomark said:

I am not worried about full stadiums, since people who it concerns just likely won’t go or can wear a mask. I worry more about a half vaccinated team where’s some players could conceptually cause key teammates to miss games that could cost us a few wins and our shot at a Super Bowl. Imagine if Josh gets it and we have to have Mitch for 3 games. We could even lose to the Jets!! Something that could actually be avoided. 

 

Concerns me too, especially if players flout the protocols for non-vaxxed players and the teams look the other way.  But nothing I can do about it.

[Xwnyer]

On 6/15/2021 at 9:28 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Metal detectors are able to recognize vaccinated fans. I read it online. 

Just need to try to stick key on forehead if it doesn’t stick must mask up