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Justin Houston - visiting Ravens. Should the Bills be 'in' on him?


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2 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Not sure what the difference is between Houston and Addison. Both guys should get you in that 6-8 sacks range.

 

The difference would be that Houston actually got 8 sacks last year and Addison...didn't

image.thumb.png.98f02d1d3d3c40b4a8350b8cd3a33c99.png

 

More than 6 sacks were expected of each of them, based upon historical production.

Addison previous years: 9.5, 11, 9, 9.5

Houston previous years: 4*, 9.5, 9, 11

 

QB hits:

Addison previous years: 15, 15, 12, 14

Houston previous years: 6*, 20, 12, 18

 

* Houston was injured, played 5 games

 

You don't offer a guy $12M a year (Houston) or even 3 years, $30M (Addison) for 6 sack production. 

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Agreed, but then the Refs were not calling holds on either side of the Chiefs play.   The "stickie Chiefs defense" as announcer Tony Romo cited. The Chiefs DBs were clearly holding the Bills

Everyone seems to forget how close that Colts game was. There almost wasn't a Chiefs game. The Rookie Pittman was running wild. That game could have gone either way.

Yea the Colts had the Bills on the ropes.... If Josh Allen didn’t put the team on his back and carry them to victory(and if Phillip Rivers didn’t drift backwards inexplicably into pressure on 4th and

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8 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

As stated by the OP, too expensive for his age and Bills cap situation. 

Time to get much younger on the edge.

Agreed. Players are much more NFL ready in todays' game. No longer is it common for guys sitting two years with a clipboard.

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12 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Agreed, but then the Refs were not calling holds on either side of the Chiefs play.

 

The "stickie Chiefs defense" as announcer Tony Romo cited. The Chiefs DBs were clearly holding the Bills receivers all game and yet the refs didn't allow that in the SB.

 

What made my year was the way the Bucs chased vaunted QB Patrick Mahomes to the tune of nearly 500 yards behind the line of scrimmage in that SB!! 31-9 and not even close. 2 INTs, 3 sacks and a QBR of 52.3. Simply beautiful to witness.

 

Anyway, a few of the biggest factors between the Bills roster and the Chiefs, Bucs rosters are at pass rush, tight end and run game. 

 

The Bills have no pass rusher like Bruce Smith nor anyone close to that dominance. They have no tight end like Travis Kelce, Gronk, George Kittle either. 

 

I'd say finding that elite pass rusher and tight end should be the Bills biggest concern going forward. Who, what, where I dunno. 

It's true we were being held, but we also play that weird defense where the ends don't rush most of the time. Especially during the regular season. It's tough to say what we're doing on defense half the time. Way too passive for me. I don't think Bruce Smith gets 15 sacks for us under McD. SO, Houston would be lucky to get six here. I'd have to rewatch the the chiefs game to see if Jerry and Mark were going full boar at the QB or not....

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We should be looking at any pass rusher at this point.... Houston's decline was better than our entire individual DL last season. Hughes is barely noticeable but Addison still looked good at times. We need Epenesa to take the next step big time this year and hopefully we draft another in the first 2 rounds but Houston, Clowney, Aldon Smith, Melvin Ingram (not sure he's a great fit scheme wise), imo any one of those guys would be great additions. 

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6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

But which team won? The better team. We scored when we needed to. And they got the ball with 2:30 left and our defense strangled them, not even letting them get near field goal range.

 

The Chiefs - Browns in the playoffs was close also. Think they're worried about it?

 

My perspective differs from yours. In the Colts game the Bills did not play up to my level of expectations. They were out-coached. In particular, Frank Reich's offense won the battle of X's and O's against Sean McDermott's defense. The Bills' offensive line played poorly. Several Bills WRs were hurt, which hopefully won't be the case in future postseasons. The Bills (very narrowly) won that game in large part because of the Colts' players failure to execute when they needed to. Take away a few errors made by Colts players, and you're looking at a different outcome.

 

I don't know whether the Chiefs are or aren't worried about the closeness of their playoff game with the Browns. They may not be worried by that, but we should be! Why? Because the Browns put up a much better fight against the Chiefs than did the Bills. Going into the Super Bowl, a lot of people wanted the Chiefs to win, so that we could claim the Bills were the second-best team in the NFL. I don't know how someone can claim the Bills to be "second-best" right after the KC offense utterly obliterated the Bills' defense. The Buffalo-KC game was a blowout in Kansas City's favor, a week after the Browns put up a very good fight. The Bills may have been a better regular season team than the Browns, but the Browns were the better postseason team.

 

I enjoy playing military strategy games. One time I used my usual strategy and lost. I could have blamed the loss on luck, except that the luck was neutral. I realized my strategy was flawed, and I needed to do better. I brooded for a while. Then I came back to that game with a new strategy; one which was significantly better than my old one. Had I pretended everything was fine, I would have been more likely to just keep doing what I was doing. Only by fully owning my flaws did I force myself to a higher level of performance. And that's what I'd like to see from the Bills. They need to own the fact that their defense has been disappointing against good passing offenses, both in the regular season and the postseason. How much of that is talent and how much is scheme I don't know. But whatever the problem is, they need to fix it. They also need to do something about the offensive line, because its performance was a major letdown in all three playoff games.

 

I truly think Beane gets that. He said something to the effect that if your last postseason game was a loss, typically that loss tells you where your team needs to improve. I agree with that wholeheartedly. Many of his free agent signings appear to be attempts to address the areas I'd described. I understand his ability to sign free agents is circumscribed by being close to the cap limit, and like you I don't want to see him mortgage the future to max out the present. Depending on how the free agent signings work out and on who we draft, there's a solid chance of the 2021 roster being better than the one we had in 2020. Whether McDermott and Frazier can fix the defense's problems with X's and O's is another matter.

 

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2 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

It does kinda surprise me that Houston and Melvin Ingram are still out there

 

I think it indicates they have a contract value on themselves that the remaining teams with needs don't buy into

 

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

We should be looking at any pass rusher at this point.... Houston's decline was better than our entire individual DL last season. Hughes is barely noticeable but Addison still looked good at times. We need Epenesa to take the next step big time this year and hopefully we draft another in the first 2 rounds but Houston, Clowney, Aldon Smith, Melvin Ingram (not sure he's a great fit scheme wise), imo any one of those guys would be great additions. 

 

Agree we should be looking into any pass rusher.  Agree that Houston's decline was better than anyone on our line's production last season. 

 

Disagree with you on Hughes, completely - he was at least as, or more, disruptive than Addison and had 0.5 sacks less and more QB hits, ~=tackles.  That's not to say either performed as we needed, just that I don't agree with the "barely noticeable" vs "still looked good" assessment.

 

Clowney, I don't get the hype. 

 

Aldon Smith is another it seems to me the Bills should be looking.

 

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2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

The difference would be that Houston actually got 8 sacks last year and Addison...didn't

image.thumb.png.98f02d1d3d3c40b4a8350b8cd3a33c99.png

 

More than 6 sacks were expected of each of them, based upon historical production.

Addison previous years: 9.5, 11, 9, 9.5

Houston previous years: 4*, 9.5, 9, 11

 

QB hits:

Addison previous years: 15, 15, 12, 14

Houston previous years: 6*, 20, 12, 18

 

* Houston was injured, played 5 games

 

You don't offer a guy $12M a year (Houston) or even 3 years, $30M (Addison) for 6 sack production. 


Good point re expected production. But I think my point still holds— Addison and Houston are the “same” type of player. Older vets with similar and steady sack and pressure stats. 

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1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think it indicates they have a contract value on themselves that the remaining teams with needs don't buy into

 

 

Agree we should be looking into any pass rusher.  Agree that Houston's decline was better than anyone on our line's production last season. 

 

Disagree with you on Hughes, completely - he was at least as, or more, disruptive than Addison and had 0.5 sacks less and more QB hits, ~=tackles.  That's not to say either performed as we needed, just that I don't agree with the "barely noticeable" vs "still looked good" assessment.

 

Clowney, I don't get the hype. 

 

Aldon Smith is another it seems to me the Bills should be looking.

 

 

My opinion on Clowney is that even if he doesn't get to the QB on a regular basis he's actually very good against the run, that's why I like him. Is that a reason to spend big money on a player who has been injured the past 2 seasons? I'm not sure but I think he'd make our defense better if he can stay healthy.

 

For 9.5M that Jerry Hughes makes we should be getting Justin Houston type of production. The games that I watched , I noticed Mario Addison more disruptive than Jerry Hughes (I don't remember the exact games as it was last season), Now I also think for what we're paying Addison he should be getting to the QB more also but like I said I saw him in the QB's general area more often than not.

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Can we find the Danielle Hunter in this draft.....been a long time since we nailed a pick on the DL after round 1.  Kyle Williams?  

 

Been a long time since we nailed a round 1 DL.  

 

From Maybin to McCargo nothing but flame outs.

 

 

AJ and Oliver jury still out.  

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14 hours ago, 97bills said:

I don’t think so at that price. But boy when you look at Hughes numbers and Addison there play was down and not getting better. I guess there banking on A.J and Oliver breaking out and star return. But when you rewatch the AFCC game it really showed up how bad we are on the edge. And you can’t give a team like KC that much time heck Philp rivers was scoring on us at will and I can’t lie when the colts got the ball back I thought it was game over. Because they had two scoring drives less then 2 minutes and looked really easy. 


They will in my opinion hope to find a pass rusher at pick 30, I think they know it won’t fix the pass rush but it could help. Just have to hope one falls.

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1 hour ago, Arm of Harm said:

 

My perspective differs from yours. In the Colts game the Bills did not play up to my level of expectations. They were out-coached. In particular, Frank Reich's offense won the battle of X's and O's against Sean McDermott's defense. The Bills' offensive line played poorly. Several Bills WRs were hurt, which hopefully won't be the case in future postseasons. The Bills (very narrowly) won that game in large part because of the Colts' players failure to execute when they needed to. Take away a few errors made by Colts players, and you're looking at a different outcome.

 

I don't know whether the Chiefs are or aren't worried about the closeness of their playoff game with the Browns. They may not be worried by that, but we should be! Why? Because the Browns put up a much better fight against the Chiefs than did the Bills. Going into the Super Bowl, a lot of people wanted the Chiefs to win, so that we could claim the Bills were the second-best team in the NFL. I don't know how someone can claim the Bills to be "second-best" right after the KC offense utterly obliterated the Bills' defense. The Buffalo-KC game was a blowout in Kansas City's favor, a week after the Browns put up a very good fight. The Bills may have been a better regular season team than the Browns, but the Browns were the better postseason team.

 

I enjoy playing military strategy games. One time I used my usual strategy and lost. I could have blamed the loss on luck, except that the luck was neutral. I realized my strategy was flawed, and I needed to do better. I brooded for a while. Then I came back to that game with a new strategy; one which was significantly better than my old one. Had I pretended everything was fine, I would have been more likely to just keep doing what I was doing. Only by fully owning my flaws did I force myself to a higher level of performance. And that's what I'd like to see from the Bills. They need to own the fact that their defense has been disappointing against good passing offenses, both in the regular season and the postseason. How much of that is talent and how much is scheme I don't know. But whatever the problem is, they need to fix it. They also need to do something about the offensive line, because its performance was a major letdown in all three playoff games.

 

I truly think Beane gets that. He said something to the effect that if your last postseason game was a loss, typically that loss tells you where your team needs to improve. I agree with that wholeheartedly. Many of his free agent signings appear to be attempts to address the areas I'd described. I understand his ability to sign free agents is circumscribed by being close to the cap limit, and like you I don't want to see him mortgage the future to max out the present. Depending on how the free agent signings work out and on who we draft, there's a solid chance of the 2021 roster being better than the one we had in 2020. Whether McDermott and Frazier can fix the defense's problems with X's and O's is another matter.

 

Yea the Colts had the Bills on the ropes.... If Josh Allen didn’t put the team on his back and carry them to victory(and if Phillip Rivers didn’t drift backwards inexplicably into pressure on 4th and goal before halftime he throws an easy TD to an open receiver and the Bills probably lose, IMO.) 

 

This was also another game where our pass rush was exposed....

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4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think it indicates they have a contract value on themselves that the remaining teams with needs don't buy into

 

 

Agree we should be looking into any pass rusher.  Agree that Houston's decline was better than anyone on our line's production last season. 

 

Disagree with you on Hughes, completely - he was at least as, or more, disruptive than Addison and had 0.5 sacks less and more QB hits, ~=tackles.  That's not to say either performed as we needed, just that I don't agree with the "barely noticeable" vs "still looked good" assessment.

 

Clowney, I don't get the hype. 

 

Aldon Smith is another it seems to me the Bills should be looking.

 

Smith had 4 sacks after 3 games. 1 sack the final 13 games. Not sure he's worth looking at.

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47 minutes ago, klos63 said:

Smith had 4 sacks after 3 games. 1 sack the final 13 games. Not sure he's worth looking at.

 

Fair.  I was thinking it being his first year back after his "off field" hiatus, and on a poor team, he might merit a look if his film bears it out.

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair.  I was thinking it being his first year back after his "off field" hiatus, and on a poor team, he might merit a look if his film bears it out.

if he was younger maybe, but at 32, it's a long shot.

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He's a guy I'd like to have if the plan isn't to take a DE in the 1st or 2nd round. Not sure the Bills can make that commitment though because it seems likely they'll draft an edge rusher early in this yrs draft

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