DrDawkinstein Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, teef said: agreed. i'd assume, (and i know it's dangerous to assume) that seau was dealing with mental health issues for some time. i'm sure cte did contribute, but there's likely more there. He always seemed... off, to me. Even in his younger playing days. That big smile was almost too big. Very Robin Williams-esque, where they are over-doing the smiling and laughing to hide the struggles. I was not surprised that he did not handle retirement well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It's not just that, but the social maladjustment starts for a lot of these kids in grade school. They're the best athlete in the school, by a lot. Especially football players get all kinds of adulation from that. Everybody wants to be the star running back's friend. So if you're not the star running back, who are you, and who are your friends? Their personalities and their sports identity sometimes get so intertwined. It doesn't seem to happen to kids who put equivalent effort into success at different endeavors that don't win so much adulation, music or dance, say. Some of these guys have an answer. Some of them don't. It's a main thing that gets missed by the guys here who are like "if I were a star athlete and could pick from 18 hot chicks every night, I'd never get married", missing that what guys like Jerry Hughes or Vince Wilfork get from having a wife who came up with them is the emotional and psychological grounding from someone who believes in them/loves them apart from football. That also becomes the core of the answer how they cope post-career. Starting in grade school, a lot of these kids also get a "free pass" from peers and adults for maladjusted behavior because they're a star athlete. So instead of learning to "throw a switch" on the field and channel their anger, they get away with antisocial behavior until it goes too far, or until they no longer have their football-star status to shield them from consequences. Some of the other stuff, though, it's just normal. I've had different jobs or activities where I got to where I felt close to and socialized with a group of people, then when I moved on, I never saw most of them again. There have been a handful that I've stayed connected with. Partly it's that maintaining a social connection with people you no longer see often is a skill, and not one I'm good at. Part of it is that a lot of the connections were more proximity than "brotha by anotha motha", and over time the friendships where I had more in common than proximity sorted themselves out. Outstanding post Hap. And you are dead right on the mal adjusted from an early age stuff. Seen that in so many soccer players I have coached too. The ones who were at the top clubs as teenagers and had everything then have slid down are as a rule much more screwed up than the guys who were never the star player as a kid and have just worked at it and worked at and are playing at the best level they will ever play at. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 12 minutes ago, teef said: i've mentioned it before, but my brother in law played pro sports for a decade plus. he retired a few years ago, and it has been an issue. why? boredom. they're bored out of their minds. they came back "home" to live, but everyone here works during the day, has a schedule with kids at night, etc. it's a sitting around all day, waiting for something to happen scenario. it's a strange thing to be young, wealthy, retired, and unsatisfied. having purpose is a thing. it seems hard to feel sorry for someone in that situation, but it adds an odd stress to their family. Great insights, thanks for sharing. And not just that, but lonely, shut out (not allowed in the facility), and no longer "the man". All those years of having folks following you around, telling you how great you are, just disappear. And now no one even wants you around. It's absolutely a difficult transition, and deserves empathy, regardless of how much fame/money they've acquired. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Suffering Fan Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Teef and Hap, Just excellent posts. You both said everything that I would have said, except you said it better. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Mark80 said: He killed himself because of CTE, not because he couldn't adjust after the game but because his brain was so damaged that it was torturing his thoughts to the point he couldn't take it anymore. You think a permanently injured brain (from football) wouldn't make it hard to adjust back? Nobody is saying you need to donate money, it doesn't cost anything to try and put yourself in their shoes. It's a different set of problems than us with 9-5s, doesn't make it less valid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Not sure if this is a new revelation for him or if he’s had these feelings for awhile now but I think COVID is partially to blame for what many people are going through mentally right now. Could be football, could be the fact that we’ve all been locked inside for a year now and it doesn’t help that we’re going through a brutal winter right now on top of that. I’m a very introverted kind of guy. I don’t need an entourage of 10 different people to follow me around wherever I go, I like being by myself, but gosh darn I do need some human contact. Cant just say this is just football or CTE or depression, I think many normal everyday people are struggling right now, just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It's not just that, but the social maladjustment starts for a lot of these kids in grade school. They're the best athlete in the school, by a lot. Especially football players get all kinds of adulation from that. Everybody wants to be the star running back's friend. So if you're not the star running back, who are you, and who are your friends? Their personalities and their sports identity sometimes get so intertwined. It doesn't seem to happen to kids who put equivalent effort into success at different endeavors that don't win so much adulation, music or dance, say. Some of these guys have an answer. Some of them don't. It's a main thing that gets missed by the guys here who are like "if I were a star athlete and could pick from 18 hot chicks every night, I'd never get married", missing that what guys like Jerry Hughes or Vince Wilfork get from having a wife who came up with them is the emotional and psychological grounding from someone who believes in them/loves them apart from football. That also becomes the core of the answer how they cope post-career. Starting in grade school, a lot of these kids also get a "free pass" from peers and adults for maladjusted behavior because they're a star athlete. So instead of learning to "throw a switch" on the field and channel their anger, they get away with antisocial behavior until it goes too far, or until they no longer have their football-star status to shield them from consequences. Some of the other stuff, though, it's just normal. I've had different jobs or activities where I got to where I felt close to and socialized with a group of people, then when I moved on, I never saw most of them again. There have been a handful that I've stayed connected with. Partly it's that maintaining a social connection with people you no longer see often is a skill, and not one I'm good at. Part of it is that a lot of the connections were more proximity than "brotha by anotha motha", and over time the friendships where I had more in common than proximity sorted themselves out. Enjoyed reading that post. I know it took me a few years to find my footing after h.s. school sports ended. It was my personal identity, and I didn't know what to channel that new free time into. I cant imagine how exponentially harder that would've been had I added college or made it to the pros before having that yanked from under me. Seems like the nfl makes a decent effort to help these guys prepare for it, but in that warrior mindset, they don't believe its ever going to happen to THEM. Edited February 3, 2021 by BillsShredder83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, teef said: i've mentioned it before, but my brother in law played pro sports for a decade plus. he retired a few years ago, and it has been an issue. why? boredom. they're bored out of their minds. they came back "home" to live, but everyone here works during the day, has a schedule with kids at night, etc. it's a sitting around all day, waiting for something to happen scenario. it's a strange thing to be young, wealthy, retired, and unsatisfied. having purpose is a thing. it seems hard to feel sorry for someone in that situation, but it adds an odd stress to their family. My closest friend is a lawyer, and after he finished law school he clerked for a federal judge in LA. One of the other clerks was a woman who swam at Stanford and made the Olympic trials. She got close but didn't make it, and then went to Stanford Law School. My friend told me that for her, everything after the high-level college competition she participated in and the serious attempt to make the Olympic team was uninteresting and a letdown. Again, after all of this she graduated from Stanford Law School and was clerking for a federal judge -- hardly someone who was just sitting around the house moping! It's hard to feel bad for someone like that, but my friend felt (and still feels) bad for her because in his view she'd basically concluded that the true high in her life had already happened and would never be replicated. Edited February 3, 2021 by dave mcbride 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaLoko Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Saint Doug said: Unfortunately, people are going to kill themselves. Mathematically speaking, I’m surprised there aren’t more suicides of former players. Doesn’t mean it was caused by playing football in the NFL. Kind of semi related, so I still beg your excuse if it seems it is not, but ourworldindata.com, (btw, a good site to get info about Global economy, education and other social issues, and which I follow for CV19 data), reports near to 800,000 deaths as a yearly rate for suicide, which is (shockingly) even greater (by at least a 100 K) than homicide yearly rate... 1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said: So stop playing. Go get a real job that pays 50 to 100k a year and see how fast you run back to the dark world of football. My company has some openings....🙃 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 I don't see where he's "saying what nobody wanted to say". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: My closest friend is a lawyer, and after he finished law school he clerked for a federal judge in LA. One of the other clerks was a woman who swam at Stanford and made the Olympic trials. She got close but didn't make it, and then went to Stanford Law School. My friend told me that for her, everything after the high-level college competition she participated in and the serious attempt to make the Olympic team was uninteresting and a letdown. Again, after all of this she graduated from Stanford Law School and was clerking for a federal judge -- hardly someone who was just sitting around the house moping! It's hard to feel bad for someone like that, but my friend felt (and still feels) bad for her because in his view she'd basically concluded that the true high in her life had already happened and would never be replicated. this is a definite element that i've seen. my brother in law is always chasing something. it's either a new project, new business venture, new place to live, etc. it's constant, and almost always has let to dissatisfaction. they recently lived in a warm, very wealthy area that they loved at first. after about a year it began to sour. not many people worked due to wealth, day drinking, constant golf and country club parties. it got old when the drinking began at noon every day, so they made the move home. now boredom set in, and guess who's going back to the south? they even bought a cottage last spring as a project. put around $800,000 into it, and it will soon be up for sale. i'm just putting out a few examples here. there are many, many more. Edited February 3, 2021 by teef 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: My closest friend is a lawyer, and after he finished law school he clerked for a federal judge in LA. One of the other clerks was a woman who swam at Stanford and made the Olympic trials. She got close but didn't make it, and then went to Stanford Law School. My friend told me that for her, everything after the high-level college competition she participated in and the serious attempt to make the Olympic team was uninteresting and a letdown. Again, after all of this she graduated from Stanford Law School and was clerking for a federal judge -- hardly someone who was just sitting around the house moping! It's hard to feel bad for someone like that, but my friend felt (and still feels) bad for her because in his view she'd basically concluded that the true high in her life had already happened and would never be replicated. Man so spot on. Sports can give you that fire to push yourself past what others can do and what you thought you could ever do, but this is the flip side to it. I could see how this effect would be extra potent to a retired millionaire in his mid 30s. Trying to find something that hits as hard as your career did has got to be a part of the solution, easier said than done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, teef said: this is a definitely element that i've seen. my brother in law is always chasing something. it's either a new project, new business venture, new place to live, etc. it's constant, and almost always has let to dissatisfaction. they recently lived in a warm, very wealthy area that they loved at first. after about a year it began to sour. not many people worked due to wealth, day drinking, constant golf and country club parties. it got old when the drinking began at noon every day, so they made the move home. now boredom set in, and guess who's going back to the south? they even bought a cottage last spring as a project. put around $800,000 into it, and it will soon be up for sale. i'm just putting out a few examples here. there are many, many more. Some type of spirituality, volunteering in a project that interests you, and family seems like the ticket for a lot of folks. Something to give them a strong sense of purpose back. Likely why so many wind up coaching HS ranks or lower, a little bit of all that wrapped into one. Hope your bro finds what hes looking for! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said: So stop playing. Go get a real job that pays 50 to 100k a year and see how fast you run back to the dark world of football. Why would you react like this? He wasn't complaining. He was EXplaining. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, major said: When I read this my mind went back to a book that I would encourage you all to read called “the dark side of the game” by Tim green. It was published in 1996 and exposes a lot of this and more. I met Tim Green in high school under the MOST BIZZARE SITUATION of all time lol!!!! really cool guy, and i was completely star struck. His son bit me in a wrestling match, and Tim was the teams coach. SUs all time sack leader, unless Freeney yanked that record from him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Well that's his perspective, but I guarantee you not everyone feels the way he does. Each player's path to the NFL is different. We can't just say that all of them experienced it the same. Absolutely there are some dark things about football, and any other billion dollar industry. Making money often requires exploiting people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Beast said: Welcome to the real world. People in almost every profession have a hard time leaving close friends and the bonds behind, as well as their self-worth starts to be questioned. Especially those in a line of work where they lose friends..... I do get what Bennett is saying but as you say, it's the real world. After I stopped playing in college, I keep in touch with about 2 people. So my social circle has changed. 99.99% of the people in the world have to go through adjustments through out life. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Wow, I was never a fan of Bennett but he makes a lot sense of what he’s saying. Signing over the permission slip is signing over their identity is very thought provoking. Careful what you wish for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: My closest friend is a lawyer, and after he finished law school he clerked for a federal judge in LA. One of the other clerks was a woman who swam at Stanford and made the Olympic trials. She got close but didn't make it, and then went to Stanford Law School. My friend told me that for her, everything after the high-level college competition she participated in and the serious attempt to make the Olympic team was uninteresting and a letdown. Again, after all of this she graduated from Stanford Law School and was clerking for a federal judge -- hardly someone who was just sitting around the house moping! It's hard to feel bad for someone like that, but my friend felt (and still feels) bad for her because in his view she'd basically concluded that the true high in her life had already happened and would never be replicated. That is, IMO, a "self fulfilling prophecy" on her part. The saying is "Follow Your Bliss" and in this case, clearly law school and clerking for a federal judge weren't "her bliss". There's a good chance that something else could be - a different type of athletic endeavor that amateurs continue into middle age such as Iron Man or endurance bicycling? a different sport? coaching youth? using her legal education to help people? switching professions? Lots of choices. A lot of people lead "lives of quiet desperation" because as a young person, they chose a profession that turned out not to really interest or fulfil them that much, then they have bills to pay and family to care for, and either need to suck it up and figure out a career change, or find an avocation that fulfills them. It's not limited to athletes, though I think having tapped into the endorphin/adrenaline rush of high level competition may create a need to find something that continues the same rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: As someone whose dad was a professional soccer player, though not at the top level, I recognise some of what he says. My old man took like 10 years out of soccer in his 40s after playing from 16 to 35 and then coaching for 5 years and he basically was as lonely as ***** because his whole social circle came through soccer. Eventually he went back in age almost 50 to coach at a lower level just because he needed the involvement. It's a real thing for athletes the inability to adjust post career. How upset would he be if he saw/heard you referring to it as soccer? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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