And on top of this...we get John Brown back...

[Mr. WEO]

43 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I'm trying to figure out what he has against John Brown.  Because this it the stance he takes when he doesn't like a player, i.e. "they did fine without him, they don't need him back."

nothing against him.  You’re not paying attention.   I’m saying I don’t see how Diggs becomes more productive than he is now when Brown gets back.

2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

It has nothing to do with the production of the individual players and everything to do with the defense having to game plan around another receiving threat. 
 

Open things up is a pretty vague statement, it doesn’t necessarily mean increase his counting stats. His numbers may ultimately decline because there’s an additional target for JA. 
 

I didn’t realize having more weapons was a negative... pretty impressive how you framed it that way. 

it isn’t. 
 

i didnt

 

[JGMcD2]

15 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

This legend of Brown stuff is out of control.  Diggs and Beasley are killing it without all that "smoke"...

Uhhh case and point? 
 

19 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

nothing against him.  You’re not paying attention.   I’m saying I don’t see how Diggs becomes more productive than he is now when Brown gets back.

it isn’t. 
 

i didnt

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by JGMcD2

[Stank_Nasty]

18 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

nothing against him.  You’re not paying attention.   I’m saying I don’t see how Diggs becomes more productive than he is now when Brown gets back.

it isn’t. 
 

i didnt

 

Why all the stupid banter? Gabe Davis isn’t John brown. Not even close right now. Brown gives the offense even more upside. Why exactly are you spending 3 pages on this worthless crap?

 

does anyone even know what this dude is actually trying to get at?  Like... what’s the point of this so far? 

[Doc]

26 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

nothing against him.  You’re not paying attention.   I’m saying I don’t see how Diggs becomes more productive than he is now when Brown gets back  

I’m the one not paying attention? LOL! There are about six other people telling you that Brown will make a significant difference on the offense as a whole.

[SirAndrew]

14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Stats are results.  The Bills are scoring 34 ppg now.  That IS their elevated potential.  It has been realized.  Sure Josh will slice the pie one more way (at the expense of 2 guys getting an insane amount of targets right now).  But if it doesn't result in more points, it isn't better.  There's no other meaningful way to measure it.

I agree, I don’t think he necessarily makes Josh better, or life easier for Beasley and Diggs. This offense is clicking perfectly right now. People making the argument it could be better are slightly misguided imo. However, I think saying that Brown coming back doesn’t improve the offense is missing a point that hasn’t been mentioned yet.
 

We are about to make a playoff run. This offense is likely to hit a rough spot at some point. It’s possible a team might figure out a way to stop Diggs and Beasley. If that happens in the playoffs we could be making an early exit. Brown adds another weapon who could allow the offense to continue functioning on all cylinders if Diggs and Beasley are shutdown. Having a dangerous third option on the field is huge if that were to happen. It could be the difference between a Super Bowl run and playoff loss. Gabe Davis is developing into a good player, but no defense is afraid of him. Brown is a deep threat who keeps teams honest.

Edited December 20, 2020 by SirAndrew

[WideNine]

13 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

His yards before catch and average depth of target have both dropped each year over the past 3.  He's getting shorter passes.  He may not have that speed anymore.

 

OF the starters who have missed significant games this year, he may have proven to be the most replaceable (or Morse).  

 

He was playing through a high ankle sprain. He needed the time away from the game for that to heal and strengthen, I don't think a healthy Brown is slow.

 

Plus you are cherry-picking stats based on a single strong season at Baltimore 3 years ago - nonsense. His career averages over more years are fairly on par and do not show this alleged drop and his 20+ yard targets were significantly higher with the Bills last year than at any other point in his career AND as I mentioned this 3rd year in your progression he was trying to play through some injuries.

 

 

[Jerome007]

Not only is Brown a speedster and great WR on his own, but him coming back doesn't change the current winning formula. He just takes some of Gabriel Davis' time and is a better player. He adds to the team without creating a disruption in the current success. And Davis got lots of real time experience. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

Uhhh case and point? 
 

 

 

 

 

 

I stand by the statement.

 

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Why all the stupid banter? Gabe Davis isn’t John brown. Not even close right now. Brown gives the offense even more upside. Why exactly are you spending 3 pages on this worthless crap?

 

does anyone even know what this dude is actually trying to get at?  Like... what’s the point of this so far? 

 

I'll say it again: I don't think that Brown's return will "open up things more for Diggs", as the poster claimed.    I would slow it down even more for you if that was possible.

 

57 minutes ago, Doc said:

I’m the one not paying attention? LOL! There are about six other people telling you that Brown will make a significant difference on the offense as a whole.

 

 

And if it was 60, and he doesn't....does that make it more true in your mind?

 

If they start scoring (Offense as a whole)  more when he's back and Diggs (and Beasley) is more productive (as per my original response to OP) with Brown in the line-up, I'll eat the crow!

[starrymessenger]

Josh’s long ball is noticeably improving. So Brown helps to add a not insignificant dimension to the offence, good as it is. 

[Doc]

39 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

And if it was 60, and he doesn't....does that make it more true in your mind?

 

If they start scoring (Offense as a whole)  more when he's back and Diggs (and Beasley) is more productive (as per my original response to OP) with Brown in the line-up, I'll eat the crow!

 

Nice try.  As I've been saying, with the Bills wrapping-up the division, I wouldn't play him until the Dols game at the earliest, which would give him 7 weeks of rest for his ankle.  And even then, it would only be for a limited number of snaps.  His impact will be in the playoffs where they'll be playing harder teams.

 

But I have no idea why you don't think getting back Brown, a 1,000 yard veteran receiver with the speed no one else on offense has, will mean anything.  It's like you think they can't get better.

[Mr. WEO]

13 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Nice try.  As I've been saying, with the Bills wrapping-up the division, I wouldn't play him until the Dols game at the earliest, which would give him 7 weeks of rest for his ankle.  And even then, it would only be for a limited number of snaps.  His impact will be in the playoffs where they'll be playing harder teams.

 

But I have no idea why you don't think getting back Brown, a 1,000 yard veteran receiver with the speed no one else on offense has, will mean anything.  It's like you think they can't get better.

they have been getting better....

 

who knows what his speed is at this point.  

give Gabe Davis as many targets as Brown had last year and he would be over 1000 yards too 

 

 

 

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

they have been getting better....

 

who knows what his speed is at this point.  

give Gabe Davis as many targets as Brown had last year and he would be over 1000 yards too

 

Four WR sets will be deadly.

[BillsFan130]

16 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Brown will take from some of Digg's crazy 11 catches per game he's now getting.  I don't think Digg's play will get "easier"--he's dominating Defenses without Brown.  This couldn't be more obvious.  

 

 

Here's what no one could conclude after tonight's game:

 

 

He’s dominating games for sure, no question.

 

But when playoffs comes and teams do the belichick approach which is not letting your best player kill you, (diggs in this case) you can’t possibly deny the bills would be better with brown over gabe Davis for that next guy to step up.

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

He’s dominating games for sure, no question.

 

But when playoffs comes and teams do the belichick approach which is not letting your best player kill you, (diggs in this case) you can’t possibly deny the bills would be better with brown over gabe Davis for that next guy to step up.

 

 

Without Brown to take the heat off Diggs, teams STILL haven't been able to slow him down.  

 

As for "denying the Bills would be better with Brown over Gabe Davis". my opinion has been, throughout this thread, that they have been very very good without him.  I don't know that they will actually be better.  Yet many here are certain they will be better.....despite the fact that the guy isn't playing right now because he's been twice injured this season (legs).  How can you be certain he will improve the Offense if you don't even know what shape he's in?  This really ins't a brain teaser...

[BillsFan130]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Without Brown to take the heat off Diggs, teams STILL haven't been able to slow him down.  

 

As for "denying the Bills would be better with Brown over Gabe Davis". my opinion has been, throughout this thread, that they have been very very good without him.  I don't know that they will actually be better.  Yet many here are certain they will be better.....despite the fact that the guy isn't playing right now because he's been twice injured this season (legs).  How can you be certain he will improve the Offense if you don't even know what shape he's in?  This really ins't a brain teaser...

I hear you and I definitely agree with some of what you are saying.

 

BUT. The playoffs is a different beast than the regular season, especially when you’re playing again 6th string corners like Denver had yesterday.

 

Come playoff time when teams start to even give more attention to diggs and basically make anyone else beat them, I am taking the proven 8 year vet in brown over a rookie. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I hear you and I definitely agree with some of what you are saying.

 

BUT. The playoffs is a different beast than the regular season, especially when you’re playing again 6th string corners like Denver had yesterday.

 

Come playoff time when teams start to even give more attention to diggs and basically make anyone else beat them, I am taking the proven 8 year vet in brown over a rookie. 

 

Hopefully.  But playoff John Brown has averaged 40 ypg and 2 1st downs per game over 5 games. 

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Hopefully.  But playoff John Brown has averaged 40 ypg and 2 1st downs per game over 5 games. 

Hmm interesting. Let’s hope he changes that this year 

[ColoradoBills]

11 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

John Brown is better than Gabriel Davis. End of discussion.

 

Never happen.  He would argue over getting free money.

[Stank_Nasty]

And the winner for trying to keep the dumbest argument going for no reason and acting like they are way smarter than they actually are goes to.... WEO!!!! CONGRATS! 
 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Nice try.  As I've been saying, with the Bills wrapping-up the division, I wouldn't play him until the Dols game at the earliest, which would give him 7 weeks of rest for his ankle.  And even then, it would only be for a limited number of snaps.  His impact will be in the playoffs where they'll be playing harder teams.

 

But I have no idea why you don't think getting back Brown, a 1,000 yard veteran receiver with the speed no one else on offense has, will mean anything.  It's like you think they can't get better.

You’re right. It’s a simple concept. Plenty of people get it. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[Punching Bag]

22 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

Holy *****.  We are able to run when needed.  Pass block like there is no tomorrow.   Defense gets better every week and...we add our clutch number 2 back.  Woah

 

I think he is #3 WR.  Cole Beasley is #2. 

[Hebert19]

21 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Given how well the O has played without him.  It's hard to state they will get better with him.  That's what I'm saying.

Do you recall how good we have been with him

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

nothing against him.  You’re not paying attention.   I’m saying I don’t see how Diggs becomes more productive than he is now when Brown gets back.

it isn’t. 
 

i didnt

 

Diggs doesn't become more productive.  That's really not the point. If diggs becomes less productive that means the offense is likely better.  They are less dependent on him.  Ps. The big play will come back too.  He will remove the ability for the zone to work. 

7 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

I agree, I don’t think he necessarily makes Josh better, or life easier for Beasley and Diggs. This offense is clicking perfectly right now. People making the argument it could be better are slightly misguided imo. However, I think saying that Brown coming back doesn’t improve the offense is missing a point that hasn’t been mentioned yet.
 

We are about to make a playoff run. This offense is likely to hit a rough spot at some point. It’s possible a team might figure out a way to stop Diggs and Beasley. If that happens in the playoffs we could be making an early exit. Brown adds another weapon who could allow the offense to continue functioning on all cylinders if Diggs and Beasley are shutdown. Having a dangerous third option on the field is huge if that were to happen. It could be the difference between a Super Bowl run and playoff loss. Gabe Davis is developing into a good player, but no defense is afraid of him. Brown is a deep threat who keeps teams honest.

Brown forces a decision that Davis doesn't.  Do we double him or him.  That makes an offense better.  The 3rd option always does.  Take kelce or sammy or hill away from KC.  Are they as good.  No. Why....because all 3 make a D make a decision.  

[eball]

You know what Smoke being out has done?  It has made Josh a better QB.  That doesn’t mean when he returns the offense gets worse.

[Rocket94]

On 12/19/2020 at 7:54 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

Instead of asking who we want to face in the playoffs, we should ask what teams don't want to play us?

They are a scary proposition...those Buffalo Bills!

[KellyToTasker]

On 12/19/2020 at 7:54 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

Instead of asking who we want to face in the playoffs, we should ask what teams don't want to play us?

Great point. I have an old friend that just retired from active duty. He’s single, bought an RV, and is following the Colts around the entire season (every game, every city). He has a Colts tattoo over his heart. He told me once, I don’t have kids, I’m not married anymore, the Colts are my life. 
 

All that being said, after the Bills game yesterday, he says via text, “I don’t want to play Buffalo in round 1.” 
 

That was it. Teams and their fans are catching onto the Bills and noticing how dangerous they are. 

[KellyToTasker]

1 hour ago, eball said:

You know what Smoke being out has done?  It has made Josh a better QB.  That doesn’t mean when he returns the offense gets worse.

He has. Early on it was, the offense doesn’t click without Brown. Now, they’re just as good, if not better than earlier in the season (I’d say they’re more consistent throughout the entire game now vice earlier in the year...They don’t go quite in the middle of the game.) Really excited to see a healthy John Brown. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Hebert19 said:

Do you recall how good we have been with him

Diggs doesn't become more productive.  That's really not the point. If diggs becomes less productive that means the offense is likely better.  They are less dependent on him.  Ps. The big play will come back too.  He will remove the ability for the zone to work. 

Brown forces a decision that Davis doesn't.  Do we double him or him.  That makes an offense better.  The 3rd option always does.  Take kelce or sammy or hill away from KC.  Are they as good.  No. Why....because all 3 make a D make a decision.  

 

Despite playing a lot of snaps, Brown had only 4 games with more than 5 targets.  Needless to say, Brown isn't the threat that either Kelce or Hill are.  Chiefs were obviously  fine without Sammy--that's a good Brown comparison, actually.  He's had a Brown type season.

 

No Davis isn't being used as a decoy.  He has the highest YPC  and TD total (6) on the team.    Despite only 1 more catch than Brown, he has 4 more 1st downs. Brown hasn't had a TD since week 2.  Putting all 4 of them out there doesn't mean Brown is going to be running fly routes all the time.  He was not before he went out.  

 

Davis is becoming a problem for opposing Defenses....

Edited December 21, 2020 by Mr. WEO

[Bookie Man]

On 12/19/2020 at 8:54 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

Instead of asking who we want to face in the playoffs, we should ask what teams don't want to play us?

We ARE the thing that goes bump in the night! 

[Estro]

I think you'll actually see a package of 5 WRs when John Brown is back.  Not sure you'll see it until the playoffs, but I think the idea of Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Davis & McKenzie will be something Daboll might unleash......I also think you'll see a lot of 4 WR, 1 TE sets.

[machine gun kelly]

Estro, if they do that, expect lots of blitzes as they have no one to chip block.  That’s why most teams don’t even do many four WR sets.  We’ve made it work as our WR’s can be very physical.  I like Moss in there if for nothing else, but a very good block to give Allen just 1-2 more seconds to hit guys deep.  Going five wide means a short pass.

[PromoTheRobot]

14 hours ago, Raleigh • √eff said:

We ARE the thing that goes bump in the night! 

"I'm the one who knocks!"