How about Aaron Jones at RB next year?

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Yeah, cutting guys would clear some money.

 

But doing that would also open massive holes across the starting lineup which would then have to be filled with free agents which would cost pretty much the same amount and would then require a lot of time to learn to work together.

 

And that's all before they sign their draftees and do their best to re-sign some combination of Feliciano, Milano and Daryl Williams.

 

We're not going to see big spending in FA, it's a very very safe bet. They will likely let go two or three, maybe even four of those guys you list up above, but then they would have to replace them, which will cost money.

 

You said elsewhere here that you think they can cut Butler, Jefferson and Matakevich without losing much. I don't see how. Next year our DLs under contract are Addison, Hughes, Epenesa, Daryl Johnson, Butler, Lotulelei, Jefferson, Ed Oliver and Phillips.

 

Cut Butler and Jefferson and they don't have the eight platoon guys that this system demands. They'd have:

 

DEs: Addison, Hughes, Epenesa and Daryl Johnson, and

DTs: Lotulelei, Oliver and Phillips

 

That's a group that would need some FAs to plug the gaps. You could replace them in FA for cheaper, but not all that much cheaper, not if you 're looking for quality players.

 

You could get a cheaper STs guy than Matakevich, but if you want him to be good, it wouldn't be all that much cheaper.

 

I disagree that cutting Butler, Jefferson and Matakevich will open massive holes.  I haven't been overly impressed with them and they're getting pretty good money.  Star is coming back and again teams will have to make cuts because of the cap decrease so some good players should be available.  Meanwhile they need to retain Williams and will need money for that.

 

2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Doc, who is then going to replace most of the defensive line.  Another RB is not the answer, but better push from the O Line is what will improve our running game.  Last week we ran between our two guys 141 yards.  We have a lot more pressing needs (this is to the group, not you specifically Doc), and a lot of people keep forgetting the cap going. Down from what would have been $210 mil. based on a normal cap increase, down to $175 mil.  Now given our current contracts were originally based on an increase, there will be a lot of purging, restructuring, etc.  to maintain a whole team.

 

We can’t afford luxury acquisitions of expensive players, vs. making the best of what valuable players we have in the team, amd purging that just aren’t cutting it.

 

Again, I'm not advocating getting Jones.

[Billsatlastin2018]

NEVER, EVER pay for RBs! 
 

EVER!
 

So far down on the scale.

 

ALWAYS Draft freakishly big Metcalf type TEs... which the Bills never, ever do!

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Buffalo03 said:

That's exactly who I was referring to. Jines hasn't had a single game with 25 or more touches and not a single game with 20 or more carries this season. The other guy I was talking to was trying to say that not a single RB gets between 25-30 touches in a game this season. Henry, Cook, Jacobs and McCaffery when healthy have all had multiple games with more than 25 touches. Even Ezekiel Elliott has had 3 of them this season. So it does happen but not on a weekly basis as I originally thought but still proves my point. Jones has only had more than 20 touches in a game once. Those guys just in carries alone get 20 a game before catches are even factored in. Jones has had multiple games with 18 total touches or less. He is severely underutilized 

 

 

Because there are three or four guys who do something certainly does not prove that everyone who isn't used that much is underutilized. In fact, it might point out that the guys who are being used that much are overutilized. Or that some guys - say guys with a significant injury history - shouldn't be used that way.

 

Or that some guys who don't weigh a ton - just picking a number out of the air, a guy who weighs 208, for example - should not be used that way if they are expected not to wear down.

 

16 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I disagree that cutting Butler, Jefferson and Matakevich will open massive holes.  I haven't been overly impressed with them and they're getting pretty good money.  Star is coming back and again teams will have to make cuts because of the cap decrease so some good players should be available.  Meanwhile they need to retain Williams and will need money for that.

 

 

Again, I'm not advocating getting Jones.

 

 

I hear you that you're not after Jones, but it absolutely would open major holes in the DL.

 

To repeat myself ... you said elsewhere here that you think they can cut Butler, Jefferson and Matakevich without losing much. I don't see how. Next year our DLs under contract are Addison, Hughes, Epenesa, Daryl Johnson, Butler, Lotulelei, Jefferson, Ed Oliver and Phillips.

 

Cut Butler and Jefferson and they don't have the eight platoon guys that this system demands. They'd have:

 

DEs: Addison, Hughes, Epenesa and Daryl Johnson, and

DTs: Lotulelei, Oliver and Phillips

 

That's a group that would need some FAs to plug the gaps. You could replace them in FA for cheaper, but not all that much cheaper, not if you 're looking for quality players.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Doc]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

I hear you that you're not after Jones, but it absolutely would open major holes in the DL.

 

To repeat myself ... you said elsewhere here that you think they can cut Butler, Jefferson and Matakevich without losing much. I don't see how. Next year our DLs under contract are Addison, Hughes, Epenesa, Daryl Johnson, Butler, Lotulelei, Jefferson, Ed Oliver and Phillips.

 

Cut Butler and Jefferson and they don't have the eight platoon guys that this system demands. They'd have:

 

DEs: Addison, Hughes, Epenesa and Daryl Johnson, and

DTs: Lotulelei, Oliver and Phillips

 

That's a group that would need some FAs to plug the gaps. You could replace them in FA for cheaper, but not all that much cheaper, not if you 're looking for quality players.

 

With Star coming back, they would have a net loss of one DL under my scenario.  And you forgot Justin Zimmer, who will be a RFA and likely tendered. 

 

Again they need to clear cap space to re-sign Williams at least, and ideally Feliciano and Milano.  It's going to have to come from somewhere and potentially leave a hole elsewhere.  Restructuing deals only kicks the can down further.

 

There there's the question of whether you think that Jefferson and Butler (and Matakevich) are quality-enough players to not look for upgrades?  Much less at what they're making.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Doc

[Royale with Cheese]

4 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

That's exactly who I was referring to. Jines hasn't had a single game with 25 or more touches and not a single game with 20 or more carries this season. The other guy I was talking to was trying to say that not a single RB gets between 25-30 touches in a game this season. Henry, Cook, Jacobs and McCaffery when healthy have all had multiple games with more than 25 touches. Even Ezekiel Elliott has had 3 of them this season. So it does happen but not on a weekly basis as I originally thought but still proves my point. Jones has only had more than 20 touches in a game once. Those guys just in carries alone get 20 a game before catches are even factored in. Jones has had multiple games with 18 total touches or less. He is severely underutilized 

But you think he can be signed for Kenyan Drake level contract and that’s not even close to what he will get.

[PrimeTime101]

[Buffalo Junction]

5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

But you think he can be signed for Kenyan Drake level contract and that’s not even close to what he will get.

100%. If he could be signed for Kenyon Drake money he’d already have been resigned by GB. They already resigned Bakhtiari and Kenny Clark, and if pushed they’ll resign Corey Lindsey for $12MM before they ink Jones for that..... Center > runningback. 

[Codyny13]

He’s be stupid to resign in GB, what?

[Buftex]

On 12/5/2020 at 10:35 AM, Victory Formation said:

Nope. You don’t pay RBs. Singletary and Moss will be just fine, build that OL. And when Singletary and Moss’ contracts are up, draft another RB in the 3rd round. Rinse and repeat.

People always say this...but remember how excited most here were, when it seemed like we were "in" on Leveon Bell?  

[Doc]

35 minutes ago, Buftex said:

People always say this...but remember how excited most here were, when it seemed like we were "in" on Leveon Bell?  

 

I don't know about most.  But if you're talking about last year when he was an UFA, it's because they (not me, I never wanted a guy who was willing to sit out a whole year) thought he could still be a 2,000 yards from scrimmage player. 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said:

100%. If he could be signed for Kenyon Drake money he’d already have been resigned by GB. They already resigned Bakhtiari and Kenny Clark, and if pushed they’ll resign Corey Lindsey for $12MM before they ink Jones for that..... Center > runningback. 

You think he’s going to be signed on the open market for the same level contract as Kenyon Drake?

[Norcalbillsfan]

I'm a fan of rbs on rookie contracts. Especially so much talent in the nfl has come in later rounds of drafts (lindsey, ekeler,kamara). And a rookie rb can produce day 1. I'd much rather pay for an elite offensive line. Especially we are gonna have to PAY for Allen. 

[Buffalo Junction]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

You think he’s going to be signed on the open market for the same level contract as Kenyon Drake?

Absolutely not. I’m saying that if he was willing to take Drake money the Packers would have already extended him along with Clark and Bakhtiari. They always try to extend players early and talks with Jones stalled. Now they have a situation where they have to consider paying Jones or Lindsey over $10MM/yr.... Chances are they resign their center instead of Jones. 

[billsfan_34]

On 12/5/2020 at 11:49 AM, Buffalo Junction said:

Jones is going to get PAID. No way Beane gives a RB a $15MM/yr contract which is what Jones will be looking for. The guy knows that his receiving ability, speed and TD totals make his a unique talent. 

I respectfully disagree- he will get a contract but it wont be huge. Look no further than L. Bell. 

[Buffalo Junction]

7 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

I respectfully disagree- he will get a contract but it wont be huge. Look no further than L. Bell. 

I’m a little confused. Bell got $13MM/yr from the Jets, and Covid aside contracts have gone up. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Buffalo Junction

[Victory Formation]

14 hours ago, Buftex said:

People always say this...but remember how excited most here were, when it seemed like we were "in" on Leveon Bell?  

As somebody pointed out.. The better your QB is, the lesser you need to pay a RB.. The lesser your QB is, the more you should pay a RB..

 

At this point I think Buffalo needs to go OL.. As far as Bell is concerned, he was a 3rd round pick.. The Steelers beat the tires on him for 4-5 years and then wisely let him walk.. Bell made $15M/yr.. That’s about the going rate for a top 5 OG or a top 5 RT — two positions we could use to upgrade..

 

Ideally you build that OL to the point where an UDFA can get you 5 yards a pop.

[Don Otreply]

On 12/5/2020 at 11:49 AM, Doc said:

 

Maybe.  They can clear $18.75M by cutting Butler, Jefferson and Matakevich.  If they cut Morse, it's another $4.875M.  Brown is $8.175M.  Addison is $6.225M.  Lee Smith is $2.25M.

And will spend nearly that much Or more just to replace them with better talent, sure you can dump Smith and Matekevitch types, but... not for a RB before you improve the O line. Jmo. 

 

Go Bills!!!

[Doc]

26 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

And will spend nearly that much Or more just to replace them with better talent, sure you can dump Smith and Matekevitch types, but... not for a RB before you improve the O line. Jmo. 

 

Go Bills!!!

 

Star coming back will upgrade the talent.  And I'd prefer taking the $15M saved from cutting Jefferson and Butler and putting it into one better DT or DE.  But again, no FA RBs.

 

But hey, not my call.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Victory Formation said:

As somebody pointed out.. The better your QB is, the lesser you need to pay a RB.. The lesser your QB is, the more you should pay a RB..

 

At this point I think Buffalo needs to go OL.. As far as Bell is concerned, he was a 3rd round pick.. The Steelers beat the tires on him for 4-5 years and then wisely let him walk.. Bell made $15M/yr.. That’s about the going rate for a top 5 OG or a top 5 RT — two positions we could use to upgrade..

 

Ideally you build that OL to the point where an UDFA can get you 5 yards a pop.

 

Bell was a 2nd round pick. Though I still agree with the overall point. The Bills have no need to commit yet more resources to the running back position 

On 12/6/2020 at 3:44 PM, Doc said:

There there's the question of whether you think that Jefferson and Butler (and Matakevich) are quality-enough players to not look for upgrades?  Much less at what they're making.

 

I think Matakevich is as safe as houses. He has played well on special teams. That is what he was brought here to do. Jefferson will be here, Butler will not is my prediction for the DL. 

[blacklabel]

I'm good with Singletary and Moss. I think both of them still have a high ceiling they haven't reached and I like how their styles compliment one another.