Sunday Ticket anti-trust lawsuit revived

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

For those who live outside the market, this is a big deal.

 

I was a ST subscriber for years, but the prices just kept going up, and its not available on FIOS, a far superior media provider.

 

With all the workarounds available and DirecTV sinking in market share, you would think the NFL would be ready to open the games up.  But no.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-supreme-court-rejects-nfl-144920747.html

[BuffaloBillies]

Good. I hope NFL and ATT have to pay many, many millions...

either in reimbursement to subscribers and/or legal costs they will incur.

 

greedy aholes

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said:

Good. I hope NFL and ATT have to pay many, many millions...

either in reimbursement to subscribers and/or legal costs they will incur.

 

greedy aholes

Im guessing a settlement would result in free extension of ST for subscribers, and new ways for non-subscribers to get the games.  I doubt either the NFL or DirecTV will be cutting checks.

[BuffaloBillies]

4 minutes ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

Im guessing a settlement would result in free extension of ST for subscribers, and new ways for non-subscribers to get the games.  I doubt either the NFL or DirecTV will be cutting checks.

 

Well, we can hope it drags on in the courts and both are paying for their high-cost legal teams the whole way.

I'm going with that... makes me feel better.

[johnnywo]

After paying for the last 15 years I'm looking forward to my $5.39 check after the settlement...

[Mr Info]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillies said:

Good. I hope NFL and ATT have to pay many, many millions...

either in reimbursement to subscribers and/or legal costs they will incur.

 

greedy aholes

I do not agree with this or the original poster.

 

Is Sunday Ticket expensive? Sure but Directv/ATT agreed to pay the NFL an exorbitant amt of $ (which, incidentally, is up for renegotiation every few years). They own it and can charge whatever they want.
Whether Directv is losing customers or the Sunday Ticket broadcast can be illegally snagged is completely unrelated. If it’s too expensive then tough. This is an entertainment option not something that is required. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

20 minutes ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

For those who live outside the market, this is a big deal.

 

I was a ST subscriber for years, but the prices just kept going up, and its not available on FIOS, a far superior media provider.

 

With all the workarounds available and DirecTV sinking in market share, you would think the NFL would be ready to open the games up.  But no.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-supreme-court-rejects-nfl-144920747.html

 

I don't understand why people think the NFL should have opened things up in particular in 2014.  If you were selling something and someone offered you $100 for the item and someone else offered your $300, which would you take?  From what I recall DTV offered the NFL crazy amounts as they knew without ST, DTV would go down the tubes.  The NFL and DTV signed the contract so both are part of the lawsuit, but it's DTV who is on the hook to lose exclusivity in the deal.  The NFL is just looking for whomever will pay them the most money

 

Having said that there are a number of things that changed since the last contract extension in 2014

 

From the DTV side they were bought out by ATT and ATT seems to be much tighter with things.  I had DTV and ST for a number of years and once they were bought out, the discounts were much harder to come by.  Wouldn't shock me to know that DTV was/is losing money these days with ST.  So I think next year when the contract is up for renewal, I don't think ATT will bid more than they are able to make money from.

 

There also is much more streaming content today then there was in 2014 when the last contract was signed both legal and illegal and all the illegal streams makes it tougher for DTV to gain subscribers, then add on all the cord cutting.  In 2014 streaming was not nearly as widespread and the quality wasn't often that great either.

 

So while I understand why the NFL signed the contract with DTV and their goal is to make the most money, I don't think there will be a renewal with DTV next year as likely the money offered from them will be lower and today streaming is the way to go and the league knows that too.

 

And will root for DTV to lose the lawsuit so things are opened up more.  Personally I'd be willing to pay $300 to $400 for ST as a stand alone streaming package, but not when you add another $100 a month for things I'm now watching via an antenna or through other cheaper means

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

8 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

I do not agree with this or the original poster.

 

Is Sunday Ticket expensive? Sure but Directv/ATT agreed to pay the NFL an exorbitant amt of $ (which, incidentally, is up for renegotiation every few years). They own it and can charge whatever they want.
Whether Directv is losing customers or the Sunday Ticket broadcast can be illegally snagged is completely unrelated. If it’s too expensive then tough. This is an entertainment option not something that is required. 

 

I completely agree with your first paragraph, the one problem I have with DTV is that they won't offer it as a stand alone to EVERYONE.  To get ST with DTV is costing close to $1500 to $2000 a year.

 

I'd pay $400 for a stand alone streaming package, but they won't sell it to me.

 

And before someone tells me they do offer it as a stand alone, it appears to be extremely limited addresses that can get it.  I put in my new address in a new development which isn't even on some maps, so there was never DTV here prior.  I then tried the address of more than one nursing home and assisted living housing my mother was in and they also were not eligible addresses according to them so I have no idea who/where might be eligible

[BuffaloBillies]

10 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

I do not agree with this or the original poster.

 

Is Sunday Ticket expensive? Sure but Directv/ATT agreed to pay the NFL an exorbitant amt of $ (which, incidentally, is up for renegotiation every few years). They own it and can charge whatever they want.
Whether Directv is losing customers or the Sunday Ticket broadcast can be illegally snagged is completely unrelated. If it’s too expensive then tough. This is an entertainment option not something that is required. 

 

You're making my point of why they are greedy.

 

NFL was greedy in that they accepted the exorbitant amt of $ from DirecTV not caring at all about the actual fans of the NFL who now only had a single source to watch out-of-market games. They took the money, fans be damned.

 

DirecTV/ATT is greedy in that yes, it is expensive. And since they had exclusive rights (by giving NFL exobitant amt of $), they had NFL fans be the short-hairs and have continued to raise the rates (from $99 to $300+ over the years). AND... until only this year, you HAD to be be a DirecTV subscriber to even get ST. This year they opened it up to ~40 markets to stream without having DirecTV... but not all markets. Mine is one that does NOT have access through streaming. So, I had to have my college kid set up an account and I use his. It was literally the ONLY way I could get Bills games.

 

Call it what you want. I'm calling them both greedy aholes.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I completely agree with your first paragraph, the one problem I have with DTV is that they won't offer it as a stand alone to EVERYONE.  To get ST with DTV is costing close to $1500 to $2000 a year.

 

I'd pay $400 for a stand alone streaming package, but they won't sell it to me.

 

And before someone tells me they do offer it as a stand alone, it appears to be extremely limited addresses that can get it.  I put in my new address in a new development which isn't even on some maps, so there was never DTV here prior.  I then tried the address of more than one nursing home and assisted living housing my mother was in and they also were not eligible addresses according to them so I have no idea who/where might be eligible

I wonder if you call and say you don’t have line of site of southern sky or your HOA won’t allow if they can override the eligibility? 

[BuffaloBill]

27 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

I do not agree with this or the original poster.

 

Is Sunday Ticket expensive? Sure but Directv/ATT agreed to pay the NFL an exorbitant amt of $ (which, incidentally, is up for renegotiation every few years). They own it and can charge whatever they want.
Whether Directv is losing customers or the Sunday Ticket broadcast can be illegally snagged is completely unrelated. If it’s too expensive then tough. This is an entertainment option not something that is required. 

 

Keep in mind the NFL is a legally sanctioned monopoly. AT&T / Direct TV is not. There is undoubtedly a dampening of competition for out of town games. The fact that the NFL has locked itself into agreements that limit the streaming options most consumers want is a blatant show of their lack of concern for the idea that fan bases are not always  located in one geography or one mode of consuming games.

 

AT&T is trying to leverage the Sunday ticket to cause you to buy a bunch of services that are not wanted. This would be somewhat like there being bread for sale by law in only one grocery store in a given region. Then to buy bread the store locks you into buying a cart full of overpriced stuff that you do not even want. It is a losing model for everyone other than AT&T. Not my fault they overplayed for an asset that is not working out strategically.

[Mango]

I actually think the $3-400 price point is way too high for what is basically just access to the 1pm games on Sunday.  At $400 bucks I am tempted to just keep using my VPN and ripping the game off. With so many people cutting the chord, the NFL really needs to evolve here and start including all games through the app/streaming. Possibly include a single team package or a per game charge. 
 

That said, I am in Saratoga Springs. I tried calling to just get the streaming service. They said no I needed DTV. I have no use for a cable package. So I actually have an old athlete that is in Med School so I threw her a couple bucks to help me out. 

[SC BIlls Fan]

I wish at some point there would be a package where I could just pay to watch Bills games. 

[WhoTom]

23 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Personally I'd be willing to pay $300 to $400 for ST as a stand alone streaming package, but not when you add another $100 a month for things I'm now watching via an antenna or through other cheaper means

 

Exactly. I subscribed to DTV for the sole purpose of getting ST. Besides games, there were about 4 channels that I watched on a somewhat regular basis, and I could live without any of them. In effect, in order to get the one item I wanted, I was forced to buy a much more expensive package. It's like wanting to buy a tire but being forced to buy a whole car.

 

[Ned Flanders]

NFL/ATT will also enlist the help of the beer barons here.  A main source of their revenue, bars, is hurting now and without the limited NFL/ATT "exclusive agreement," bars will further suffer. 

 

Bars have made Sunday afternoons relevant if you want to see your team's games.  What was usually the slowest time of the week, bars have now become an integral conduit to your team's Sunday afternoon games...and what item do bars like to sell most?  Not chicken wings but the high profit margin associated with alcohol, most notably beer.

 

I have a friend who was very involved in this at one time; it was the beer barons that screamed to the NFL not to "open up" Sunday afternoon games to regular cable but keep it on a system that many folks can't/won't get (DTV).  And when the NFL's big sponsors, here Big Beer, talk, the NFL listens.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I think it’s asinine that this dinosaur of a company doesn’t realize they have a viable stand alone subscription service that they could probably charge more for, instead of stupidly mandating this ‘use our Satellite or else’. 
 

the fact is people live in areas with great streaming infrastructure and want to watch out of market games. But DTV is trying to force a market to exist. I lucked out that my townhouse was eligible. If It wasn’t I was never considering adding a dish. 

 

as to those blocked, I suspect the eligibility algorithm excludes home addresses and businesses, looks like townhouses are eligible, not sure about apartments. there is an alleged check between cc address and eligibility addresses, but it might only check zip code. 
 

 

 

[LeGOATski]

I always thought it was a stupid move to pay for Sunday Ticket. 

 

You enabled them.

[RyanC883]

the NFL should have it's own system like MLB has.  Keep all the ad revenue yourself, sell the product at a reasonable price.  

[MyDogLuvsPB]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I completely agree with your first paragraph, the one problem I have with DTV is that they won't offer it as a stand alone to EVERYONE.  To get ST with DTV is costing close to $1500 to $2000 a year.

 

I'd pay $400 for a stand alone streaming package, but they won't sell it to me.

This!  Although I'd only like to subscribe to Bills games only at a much reduced price. 

3 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

the NFL should have it's own system like MLB has.  Keep all the ad revenue yourself, sell the product at a reasonable price.  

I have been paying the $125 sub for the past 7 years.  It is worth every penny IMO. 

 

At least the NFL offers Game Pass now but still would love live streams. 

[RyanC883]

2 minutes ago, MyDogLuvsPB said:

This!  Although I'd only like to subscribe to Bills games only at a much reduced price. 

I have been paying the $125 sub for the past 7 years.  It is worth every penny IMO. 

 

At least the NFL offers Game Pass now but still would love live streams. 

 

how are u paying 125 sub?  do you have DTV?  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I wonder if you call and say you don’t have line of site of southern sky or your HOA won’t allow if they can override the eligibility? 

 

So about 5 or 6 years ago, think it was the first year DTV offered the stand alone, I still had cable at the time.  Went to the DTV website and filled out a form, they asked:

 

1) Do you currently have DTV

2) Can you get DTV at your location

3) Have you ever had DTV at this location

 

I answered NO to all (which was a half truth) and did get the stand alone streaming.  At that point really wasn't all that good, feature wise was more limited, no multi game view,  etc.  A year or two later went with DTV and ST for maybe 4 to 5 years, but discounts were harder every year to get.  Got to point all credits expired, they'd give me like a total of $10 in new credits so I dumped them.  3 weeks later they offered me like $60 off to return.  If they had even given me half that amount I'd never have left.  But by then had bought a TIVO DVR and antenna so wasn't going back.  I now live in a new house so there never has been DTV at this location but really haven't even bothered to try calling, gave up on them.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

39 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I think it’s asinine that this dinosaur of a company doesn’t realize they have a viable stand alone subscription service that they could probably charge more for, instead of stupidly mandating this ‘use our Satellite or else’. 
 

the fact is people live in areas with great streaming infrastructure and want to watch out of market games. But DTV is trying to force a market to exist. I lucked out that my townhouse was eligible. If It wasn’t I was never considering adding a dish. 

 

as to those blocked, I suspect the eligibility algorithm excludes home addresses and businesses, looks like townhouses are eligible, not sure about apartments. there is an alleged check between cc address and eligibility addresses, but it might only check zip code. 
 

 

 

 

Yes they do have a stand alone product, but would you pay over $1000 for a stand alone?  The problem is if they offered a stand alone, likely 1/2 their subscribers would dump DTV and they'd be losing probably at least $100 to $200 per person per month, easily over $1000 per year per account.  Doubt they can charge that much to make up for it AND keep DTV up and running.  They probably could make money on it if they shut down DTV  and just sold ST

[Steptide]

Sunday ticket should be it's own entity. Think of the Sunday ticket like Netflix. You pay a monthly subscription, get every game during the season (in and out of network) and have access to past games and/or the condensed games. Think of the content they could put on it. I'd much rather do that than deal with directv every year 

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillies said:

Good. I hope NFL and ATT have to pay many, many millions...

either in reimbursement to subscribers and/or legal costs they will incur.

 

greedy aholes

 

 

Customers will get coupons and laywers will get millions.  It does fans no good.  Had one firm call me about a lawsuit and I said I will not join it for laywers are as greedy if not greedier than company being sued.

[Chandler#81]

43 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I always thought it was a stupid move to pay for Sunday Ticket. 

 

You enabled them.

I guess I’m guilty then..😳

I bought ST in ‘95 and moved from WNY to Florida. It was the only way I could see the Bills games. Kept that miserable dish for 20 years. 

Am I now a 🏴‍☠️?

 

youbetcha!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Yes they do have a stand alone product, but would you pay over $1000 for a stand alone?  The problem is if they offered a stand alone, likely 1/2 their subscribers would dump DTV and they'd be losing probably at least $100 to $200 per person per month, easily over $1000 per year per account.  Doubt they can charge that much to make up for it AND keep DTV up and running.  They probably could make money on it if they shut down DTV  and just sold ST

see I don’t believe that part. They have 15 million sat tv subs and only about 2 million ST subs according to a few web articles. 
 

even if they lost all of that satellite tv revenue, but kept them as streamers only, plus picked up more streamers only, it probably a winning business. 

from a cost standpoint;

 

-subscriber acquisition cost is likely lower for ST only, everyone knows out of market nfl has one Legal option. and nfl does all the content marketing already 

-no truck roll/install

 

-minimal commissions

 

- No hardware to support and maintain 

 

- reduced satellite capacity utilization so you can lease it to others 
 

AT&T will figure this out and slay the dinosaur or just drop the agreement. They consider it a zero growth unprofitable business. 

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

see I don’t believe that part. They have 15 million sat tv subs and only about 2 million ST subs according to a few web articles. 
 

even if they lost all of that satellite tv revenue, but kept them as streamers only, plus picked up more streamers only, it probably a winning business. 

from a cost standpoint;

 

-subscriber acquisition cost is likely lower for ST only, everyone knows out of market nfl has one Legal option. and nfl does all the content marketing already 

-no truck roll/install

 

-minimal commissions

 

- No hardware to support and maintain 

 

- reduced satellite capacity utilization so you can lease it to others 
 

AT&T will figure this out and slay the dinosaur or just drop the agreement. They consider it a zero growth unprofitable business. 

 

 

 

Well if those are the numbers then you're likely correct, didn't think it was so one sided for ST, they could likely make money as a stand alone.  Could be something in the existing contract prohibits them from doing this now, so they need to wait for a new one.

 

Will likely find out soon enough if ATT keeps it or not.  Does make you wonder if ATT did look at it long term when purchasing DTV, did they buy it strictly for 2022 when the existing contract expires and they will then offer and bid for a stand alone.  And will they again out bid everyone and then sell off DTV? 

[Real McClappy]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

I actually think the $3-400 price point is way too high for what is basically just access to the 1pm games on Sunday.  At $400 bucks I am tempted to just keep using my VPN and ripping the game off. With so many people cutting the chord, the NFL really needs to evolve here and start including all games through the app/streaming. Possibly include a single team package or a per game charge. 
 

That said, I am in Saratoga Springs. I tried calling to just get the streaming service. They said no I needed DTV. I have no use for a cable package. So I actually have an old athlete that is in Med School so I threw her a couple bucks to help me out. 

HDTV antenna and you'll get about 5-6 of the games free up here. The rest are found easily online and streamed to my TV.  I have zero shame for greed... 

Had DTV for 12yrs in Masshole land. 

[HardyBoy]

Back when Madden 25 came out (25th anniversary, think it was for the 2013 season), they had an option to buy the "anniversary" edition for $100 and the extra $40 got you a code to get Sunday Ticket mobile. I just connected my computer to my tv with an hdmi cable and was good to go.

 

The quality wasn't the best at first, which makes me think they did it as a one year pilot to test their streaming capabilities and the bandwidth data. Whatever the reason, it really sucked they didn't continue it.

 

I had already cut the chord then and basically paid $100 for the ability to stream bills games, plus I got a mediocre Madden game, which apparently is the last mediocre Madden game, and they have really started sucking the following year and for the last seven years when they really started going the micro transaction route with Ultimate Team. 

 

I'd say that Madden going downhill is a tangent, but it's not...another example of the nfl doing a single license thing, and the entity holding the rights to that license looking to maximize their immediate value without worrying about the brand they in many ways are tarnishing (look at what EA has done with Star Wars as an additional example).

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Well if those are the numbers then you're likely correct, didn't think it was so one sided for ST, they could likely make money as a stand alone.  Could be something in the existing contract prohibits them from doing this now, so they need to wait for a new one.

 

Will likely find out soon enough if ATT keeps it or not.  Does make you wonder if ATT did look at it long term when purchasing DTV, did they buy it strictly for 2022 when the existing contract expires and they will then offer and bid for a stand alone.  And will they again out bid everyone and then sell off DTV? 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/directv-nfl-sunday-ticket-deal

 

pertinent read.., 

[BobbyC81]

2 hours ago, SC BIlls Fan said:

I wish at some point there would be a package where I could just pay to watch Bills games. 

 

I agree, although I also watch other games that aren’t available in my market.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

I guess I’m guilty then..😳

I bought ST in ‘95 and moved from WNY to Florida. It was the only way I could see the Bills games. Kept that miserable dish for 20 years. 

Am I now a 🏴‍☠️?

 

youbetcha!

 

You are a Bucs fan? Gratx.

[Chandler#81]

Just now, Limeaid said:

 

You are a Bucs fan? Gratx.

Hell no. Bills only. Bucs, Dolphins, Jags, Lightning, Rays, Panthers have virtually zero fans. Magic has some.. It’s a college State here. 

[WhoTom]

Quote

DirecTV is said to pay an average annual fee of $1.5 billion for exclusive rights to NFL Sunday Ticket, but loses more than $500 million each year on the deal, the Journal reported, citing sources familiar with the matter. The service has roughly two million paid subscribers.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/directv-nfl-sunday-ticket-deal

 

I don't have an MBA, but I'm thinking that's not a good business model.

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

10 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/directv-nfl-sunday-ticket-deal

 

pertinent read.., 

 

Hmmm... interesting.  But will the NFL just shuffle the deck and again go with someone else exclusively so can charge whatever they want like Apple TV.  Or will there be competing packages?  Will the NFL decide to go on their own.  Much more work and more costs to distribute, but keep all the profits too.

 

Maybe a unique way would be to give ST to someone like Apple, but then allow say Amazon  to sell 32 packages of individual teams only.  Maybe it costs half of the full amount, but would stop ST from getting to high in price as then people could switch.  Or like ESPN, it's available thru Hulu, Sling, You Tube, etc.

[BuffaloBill]

14 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/directv-nfl-sunday-ticket-deal

 

pertinent read.., 

 

Thanks for the posting. You know if the big boys, Amazon, Apple and Facebook are vying for entry then the price will go up and the NFL will make money.  Streaming was to break the power and exclusivity of cable. However, one has to wonder if the consumer will just be screwed in a different way.

[LeGOATski]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I guess I’m guilty then..😳

I bought ST in ‘95 and moved from WNY to Florida. It was the only way I could see the Bills games. Kept that miserable dish for 20 years. 

Am I now a 🏴‍☠️?

 

youbetcha!

Always had the same problem myself as I've never lived in WNY.

 

Veteran  and local watering hole enthusiast!

[Xwnyer]

4 hours ago, johnnywo said:

After paying for the last 15 years I'm looking forward to my $5.39 check after the settlement...

Who,pays I get it for free every year some years I even get my bill reduced significantly 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Hmmm... interesting.  But will the NFL just shuffle the deck and again go with someone else exclusively so can charge whatever they want like Apple TV.  Or will there be competing packages?  Will the NFL decide to go on their own.  Much more work and more costs to distribute, but keep all the profits too.

 

Maybe a unique way would be to give ST to someone like Apple, but then allow say Amazon  to sell 32 packages of individual teams only.  Maybe it costs half of the full amount, but would stop ST from getting to high in price as then people could switch.  Or like ESPN, it's available thru Hulu, Sling, You Tube, etc.

Seem like they have been dabbling. Ironically they already have the content delivery platform called game pass. They live stream preseason games and local market games through the nfl app already. 
 

I suspect they just don’t have the balls to say buhbye to that $1.5B dollar annual check in the hopes that could make kind of loot on their own. 

[RichRiderBills]

The NFL could have made more money selling the rights ad hoc at a set price, non-exclusive to anyone that wanted to pay to air, the notion of keeping up with joneses could have made it a must. They could have banked by streaming services, then selling to other platforms. 

 

Cant tell me the exclusive rights money to a lone contract exclusive deal was higher than a model that could have given everyone acesss , at a nice price. Greed and arrogance. It was also a huge reach in the stability of DTV, whose reputation, rates, and price point disenfranchised consumers. This was a mistake. I think the exclusive money was simply a big figure they could not refuse with the least possible thought. The notion out of market games could be available to others was kinda of a new fringe concept. NFL did not have the foresight to see the future of cable. Perhaps they saw it as bonus cherry not requiring much thought in addition to all the other big TV deals.

 

I do think the future of the NFL is in its own network...

Edited November 2, 2020 by RichRiderBills