Stefon Diggs concerned about football starting back up

[123719bwiqrb]

12 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Really I'd say they've been pretty accurate, the problem not enough following what they recommend.

 

Ha.  The first of many instances was when the WHO stated at the end of Jan there was no evidence of person to person transmission.  Was that accurate?

[Mango]

13 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

 

Ha.  The first of many instances was when the WHO stated at the end of Jan there was no evidence of person to person transmission.  Was that accurate?

 

Ugh. I don't know why I bother, this almost feels like a fake account and should be banned, but I think fact checking and not spreading false information is important. 

 

Released by WHO Jan 12, 2020. Yes, they reported they had not seen any evidence of human to human transmission in the first two weeks of the outbreak. But they also clearly said they need more information, and were adopting self-protection measures. At no point did WHO say this was conclusive. 

 

"The evidence is highly suggestive that the outbreak is associated with exposures in one seafood market in Wuhan. The market was closed on 1 January 2020. At this stage, there is no infection among healthcare workers, and no clear evidence of human to human transmission. The Chinese authorities continue their work of intensive surveillance and follow up measures, as well as further epidemiological investigations."

 

"Public risk communication activities have been carried out to improve public awareness and adoption of self-protection measures"

 

 

"to date, investigations are still under way to assess the full extent of the outbreak.

Wuhan city is a major domestic and international transport hub. To date, there have been no reported cases outside of Wuhan City.

More comprehensive information and ongoing investigations are also required to better understand the epidemiology, clinical picture, source, modes of transmission, and extent of infection; as well as the countermeasures implemented."
 

https://www.who.int/csr/don/12-january-2020-novel-coronavirus-china/en/
 

[SirAndrew]

20 minutes ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

 

Ha.  The first of many instances was when the WHO stated at the end of Jan there was no evidence of person to person transmission.  Was that accurate?

The problem is we live in a social media generation. Scientists, doctors, academics, and public health organizations are posting their thoughts without enough scientific evidence to back them. The truth is, no one knows much of anything about this virus. Unfortunately, experts who are supposed to be trusted continue to make statements they are forced to retract. 

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

The problem is we live in a social media generation. Scientists, doctors, academics, and public health organizations are posting their thoughts without enough scientific evidence to back them. The truth is, no one knows much of anything about this virus. Unfortunately, experts who are supposed to be trusted continue to make statements they are forced to retract. 

 

I agree to a certain extent in that it is not wrong, but I don't think this is a social media issue. It is important to note that because this is novel and rapidly spreading across the globe, the need for current information in order for communities to try and get ahead of things are/were important, rather than wait and continue spread. Sure we would like to wait for all the answers before we do anything, but it is clear that the way we interact needed to change rapidly, and without a steady flow of pieces of information, there would have been no way to know how to do that. There are going to be missteps because of how new this is for us, but the more information to save lives, the better. 

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

 

Experts have been batting about 0.075 this pandemic season, so I wouldn't trust what their saying...

 

Interesting.

 

My ignore user button has been batting about 100% this pandemic season.   It's been very trustworthy.   Thanks, Scott...

[Dopey]

The halftime performance for the next Super Bowl will look something like this:

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

The problem is we live in a social media generation. Scientists, doctors, academics, and public health organizations are posting their thoughts without enough scientific evidence to back them. The truth is, no one knows much of anything about this virus. Unfortunately, experts who are supposed to be trusted continue to make statements they are forced to retract. 

They are posting current information.  As more is known they modify/retract/amend/change their previous thoughts or statements.  They aren’t “forced” to, they simply do because more is known as time goes by.  Then they share the new info.  

 

This is how science/medicine/public health care works.  
 

This board is more than half nuts...

[Captain Hindsight]

6 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

He wasn’t “concerned” about practicing with a bunch of teammates in Florida. I just find that inconsistent. I’m trying not to voice any controversial Covid comments, but you’d think a guy who was “concerned” wouldn’t hang around a bunch of teammates with no masks. Kind of like Malcolm Jenkins saying he’s not sure if the season is safe, yet he’s marching in protests. Live your life, but I just like consistency. I’m all in favor of keeping people safe, but you can’t have it both ways. 

Shockingly, people can change their opinions once they learn more about this situation.

 

In January, I went out to dinner with my parents and told my parents I thought this would all blow over in a few weeks. I now believe that was incredible incorrect and I'm worried about football season being played at all this year

 

Can you blame Diggs for being concerned though? Hell I'm worried just watching the NFLPA and NFL argue over whether meetings should be held virtually or if any preseason games should be played. This isnt a normal virus and this isnt a normal year. If you are not concerned, you are either lying or just denying what you see in front of you.

4 hours ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

 

Experts have been batting about 0.075 this pandemic season, so I wouldn't trust what their saying...

Experts are doing fine. People who arent wearing masks or following the basic rules of sit in your house and watch netflix are who is screwing this up

 

You can place blame in lots of places for how bad this has gotten. Those evil scientists are nowhere near the top. Mistakes made? Sure, but the message has been consistent. This is serious, wear a mask, social distance

 

Odd how other countries did exactly that and are returning to mostly normal life right now and were wondering if we can have fun anytime soon or can travel to Canada

[SirAndrew]

21 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

They are posting current information.  As more is known they modify/retract/amend/change their previous thoughts or statements.  They aren’t “forced” to, they simply do because more is known as time goes by.  Then they share the new info.  

 

This is how science/medicine/public health care works.  
 

This board is more than half nuts...

I get this, but I’m saying that many people don’t understand that, and it becomes dangerous when the public loses trust. Most scientific research isn’t consumed by the masses. This is the first issue in a long time where people are actually paying any attention to what science says.  It would be better to use an abundance of caution, because we don’t know anything. It’s kind of like the question of whether children can spread the virus. Various organizations have said they can, some claim they can’t, and the CDC now says “we don’t have evidence that children are driving my the cycle of

transmission” They never said children can’t spread the virus, they are just saying they don’t have evidence. If they discover the opposite, many people will feel as if they are being lied to (even though that’s not true) 

 

The truth is we don’t know much , and the only way to keep safe is taking precautions. We are stuck in a world of the twenty four hour news cycle. Every thought and idea comes out, and people don’t know how to properly consume it. That’s my point, sometimes people need less information in order to make them better understand an issue. I don’t think the information overload is making things better. 

8 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Shockingly, people can change their opinions once they learn more about this situation.

 

In January, I went out to dinner with my parents and told my parents I thought this would all blow over in a few weeks. I now believe that was incredible incorrect and I'm worried about football season being played at all this year

 

Can you blame Diggs for being concerned though? Hell I'm worried just watching the NFLPA and NFL argue over whether meetings should be held virtually or if any preseason games should be played. This isnt a normal virus and this isnt a normal year. If you are not concerned, you are either lying or just denying what you see in front of you.

Experts are doing fine. People who arent wearing masks or following the basic rules of sit in your house and watch netflix are who is screwing this up

 

You can place blame in lots of places for how bad this has gotten. Those evil scientists are nowhere near the top. Mistakes made? Sure, but the message has been consistent. This is serious, wear a mask, social distance

 

Odd how other countries did exactly that and are returning to mostly normal life right now and were wondering if we can have fun anytime soon or can travel to Canada

I’m concerned too, I just think this virus is so

common there is no stopping it. I don’t think there is much we can do at this point to stop most people from being exposed to it. It’s everywhere, and I think people are trying to make themselves feel better thinking we can stop it now. I believe in wearing masks and taking precautions, but I don’t think we can contain it, unless we want to be shutdown another year, then many of these same people are complaining about not having a job. 

[Captain Hindsight]

7 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

 

I’m concerned too, I just think this virus is so

common there is no stopping it. I don’t think there is much we can do at this point to stop most people from being exposed to it. It’s everywhere, and I think people are trying to make themselves feel better thinking we can stop it now. I believe in wearing masks and taking precautions, but I don’t think we can contain it, unless we want to be shutdown another year, then many of these same people are complaining about not having a job. 

New Zealand has ZERO cases. Don't give me this BS that we can't eradicate this. We absolutely can and are actively choosing not to because people can't be moderately inconvenienced by wearing a piece of cloth over our mouth and nose for less than an hour at wal-mart. Its embarrassing to watch

 

 

[Dopey]

14 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

New Zealand has ZERO cases. Don't give me this BS that we can't eradicate this. We absolutely can and are actively choosing not to because people can't be moderately inconvenienced by wearing a piece of cloth over our mouth and nose for less than an hour at wal-mart. Its embarrassing to watch

 

 

Not from what I read. Also, India has like a billion people. Billion with a B and has less than a 1/3 of number of cases. Countries are now banning Americans from traveling to their country. Embarrassing is right.

 

 

https://us.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=omr&hsimp=yhs-001&type=863138039&param1=y6bdVFVIsvuYsgEClQfz8IfaIrULFWUA2DMVetLqXBrP3gi9K0k7QL0uqbojPKOCYRq9Fg6oiel%2FxHRp5HlVrHgnV4uk1QkmHJgQPnjuOPF7mD8P77x18bdmgmycomgrd1PtVc7S8vIcjOjZo2%2Bm15GokefepNPPLTlWW%2BXEo1fRNyYOX2olB7Jpkmud7aeCTAsFbQFM4vh5zycP8gZ4TbOW%2F%2BDlDFsXG%2FGbndgeYK4wwZJu%2FBOuYI9tKLCVhqz4nQE%2BaUL3cbMPncjkQP5LO0WJCsznNad6e4DRpDrb484%3D&p=coronavirus+new+zealand+update

[SirAndrew]

4 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Not from what I read. Also, India has like a billion people. Billion with a B and has less than a 1/3 of number of cases. Countries are now banning Americans from traveling to their country. Embarrassing is right.

 

 

https://us.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=omr&hsimp=yhs-001&type=863138039&param1=y6bdVFVIsvuYsgEClQfz8IfaIrULFWUA2DMVetLqXBrP3gi9K0k7QL0uqbojPKOCYRq9Fg6oiel%2FxHRp5HlVrHgnV4uk1QkmHJgQPnjuOPF7mD8P77x18bdmgmycomgrd1PtVc7S8vIcjOjZo2%2Bm15GokefepNPPLTlWW%2BXEo1fRNyYOX2olB7Jpkmud7aeCTAsFbQFM4vh5zycP8gZ4TbOW%2F%2BDlDFsXG%2FGbndgeYK4wwZJu%2FBOuYI9tKLCVhqz4nQE%2BaUL3cbMPncjkQP5LO0WJCsznNad6e4DRpDrb484%3D&p=coronavirus+new+zealand+update

How much testing does India do ? And how accurate do they keep tabs on Covid 19 death stats ? I’m not saying we’re doing a great job,  but there is always more to everything than what meets the eye. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew said:

I get this, but I’m saying that many people don’t understand that, and it becomes dangerous when the public loses trust. Most scientific research isn’t consumed by the masses. This is the first issue in a long time where people are actually paying any attention to what science says.  It would be better to use an abundance of caution, because we don’t know anything. It’s kind of like the question of whether children can spread the virus. Various organizations have said they can, some claim they can’t, and the CDC now says “we don’t have evidence that children are driving my the cycle of

transmission” They never said children can’t spread the virus, they are just saying they don’t have evidence. If they discover the opposite, many people will feel as if they are being lied to (even though that’s not true) 

 

The truth is we don’t know much , and the only way to keep safe is taking precautions. We are stuck in a world of the twenty four hour news cycle. Every thought and idea comes out, and people don’t know how to properly consume it. That’s my point, sometimes people need less information in order to make them better understand an issue. I don’t think the information overload is making things better. 

I’m concerned too, I just think this virus is so

common there is no stopping it. I don’t think there is much we can do at this point to stop most people from being exposed to it. It’s everywhere, and I think people are trying to make themselves feel better thinking we can stop it now. I believe in wearing masks and taking precautions, but I don’t think we can contain it, unless we want to be shutdown another year, then many of these same people are complaining about not having a job. 

There has been an abundance of caution and many people have listened to health leaders and intelligent government leadership.  NYS has suffered more than any other....then the leadership and the population shut down the spread of this disease using the latest info as it became known.

 

Contrast this with states led and populated by morons who endlessly insisted the disease wasn’t a big deal or “nobody knows anything for sure so we can do what we want”.   Those states are filthy with pandemic.  

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

How much testing does India do ? And how accurate do they keep tabs on Covid 19 death stats ? I’m not saying we’re doing a great job,  but there is always more to everything than what meets the eye. 

I wondered that myself. I work with someone who just got married in India in the spring and she says she doesn't think the numbers given reflect the true scope due to lack of testing for so long. She said the #'s will spike as testing picks up. She is of the opinion that for such an advanced country, why are we so behind the curve on this? She did say no pun intended.

[RiotAct]

5 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

New Zealand has ZERO cases. Don't give me this BS that we can't eradicate this. We absolutely can and are actively choosing not to because people can't be moderately inconvenienced by wearing a piece of cloth over our mouth and nose for less than an hour at wal-mart. Its embarrassing to watch

 

 

holy oversimplication!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

He wasn’t “concerned” about practicing with a bunch of teammates in Florida. I just find that inconsistent. I’m trying not to voice any controversial Covid comments, but you’d think a guy who was “concerned” wouldn’t hang around a bunch of teammates with no masks. Kind of like Malcolm Jenkins saying he’s not sure if the season is safe, yet he’s marching in protests. Live your life, but I just like consistency. I’m all in favor of keeping people safe, but you can’t have it both ways. 

 

Well, there's several parts to assessing the consistency:

1) Was the group in Florida a smaller group than an entire team?  Yes.  Yes, it was.  So a guy might have less concern getting together with a smaller group than with an entire team + support staff.  So lower risk.

2) Was there the same degree of physical contact/closeness that there would be during a regular week of outdoor practice, much less a game?  No.  No, there was not - no DBs shadowing, no practice blocks.  So lower risk.

3) What were they doing when not practicing?  This could be higher, lower, or the same risk, depending, but 90+ sweaty guys showering and toweling off and changing in a relatively small space, then hanging out in meetings/training rooms etc all day is pretty close, prolonged contact

4) What has Diggs learned about covid-19 between the Florida practice session and his tweet?  People can legit transition from being not concerned, to being concerned (or vice versa), in the face of new information.  In fact this is the way it's supposed to work.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Dopey said:

Not from what I read. Also, India has like a billion people. Billion with a B and has less than a 1/3 of number of cases. Countries are now banning Americans from traveling to their country. Embarrassing is right.

 

 

https://us.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=omr&hsimp=yhs-001&type=863138039&param1=y6bdVFVIsvuYsgEClQfz8IfaIrULFWUA2DMVetLqXBrP3gi9K0k7QL0uqbojPKOCYRq9Fg6oiel%2FxHRp5HlVrHgnV4uk1QkmHJgQPnjuOPF7mD8P77x18bdmgmycomgrd1PtVc7S8vIcjOjZo2%2Bm15GokefepNPPLTlWW%2BXEo1fRNyYOX2olB7Jpkmud7aeCTAsFbQFM4vh5zycP8gZ4TbOW%2F%2BDlDFsXG%2FGbndgeYK4wwZJu%2FBOuYI9tKLCVhqz4nQE%2BaUL3cbMPncjkQP5LO0WJCsznNad6e4DRpDrb484%3D&p=coronavirus+new+zealand+update

 

India is probably not a good comparator because their testing rates are very low - only about 8 thousand tests per million population.  The good news is that their positive test rate is also fairly low - 7% - but it's very probable that they are missing a lot of cases.

 

Valid point that it is still embarrassing that so many countries are barring us because we refuse to take appropriate action to rein in covid-19 disease.  I mean, Mexico closing its border to us for cripes sake?

[transplantbillsfan]

12 hours ago, 123719bwiqrb said:

 

Experts have been batting about 0.075 this pandemic season, so I wouldn't trust what their saying...

 

Hello. Life must be really weird for you right now.

 

You've been sleeping for the last 7 months, right?

7 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Shockingly, people can change their opinions once they learn more about this situation.

 

In January, I went out to dinner with my parents and told my parents I thought this would all blow over in a few weeks. I now believe that was incredible incorrect and I'm worried about football season being played at all this year

 

Can I just say perfect post from the perfect poster.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

I get this, but I’m saying that many people don’t understand that, and it becomes dangerous when the public loses trust. Most scientific research isn’t consumed by the masses. This is the first issue in a long time where people are actually paying any attention to what science says.  It would be better to use an abundance of caution, because we don’t know anything. It’s kind of like the question of whether children can spread the virus. Various organizations have said they can, some claim they can’t, and the CDC now says “we don’t have evidence that children are driving my the cycle of transmission” They never said children can’t spread the virus, they are just saying they don’t have evidence. If they discover the opposite, many people will feel as if they are being lied to (even though that’s not true) 

 

This is a valid point.  There has been too much ASSuming among scientists and pronouncing prematurely, then having to walk it back (and too much opining by people with medical degrees who really didn't treat much infectious disease, before they treated any covid-19).  And you're right, the WHO's cautious way of phrasing things - we don't have evidence that antibodies prevent reinfection, we lack convincing evidence of aerosol transmission, etc etc etc etc - while it represents their attempt to be good, conservative scientists it's out-of-step in a pandemic situation and it does make people feel they're being misled when the organization walks it back.

 

Quote

I’m concerned too, I just think this virus is so

common there is no stopping it. I don’t think there is much we can do at this point to stop most people from being exposed to it. It’s everywhere, and I think people are trying to make themselves feel better thinking we can stop it now. I believe in wearing masks and taking precautions, but I don’t think we can contain it, unless we want to be shutdown another year, then many of these same people are complaining about not having a job. 

 

I think that's bull####.  The virus is no more common now in the states where it's running rampant than it was in NYC, in Italy, in Spain, and in several other countries at the height of their infections.  But NYS and those countries took appropriate action and brought it under control.

 

Ironically, the only thing the draconian NYS plan is doing....is actually FOLLOWING the US CDC guidelines on safe reopening.  Which seem to be working so far.  Manufacturing businesses that have been reopen 6 weeks now with 100% mask wearing are guess what, not seeing infections spread when they find an employee who was infected outside of work and has been working in the facility.

 

Look at Sweden...they refused to shut down.  Many Swedish people voluntarily reduced their travel and changed their habits so that caused loss of income for many businesses (plus of course the effects of a global economy)....their economy is just as bad as their neighbors, and their death rate is much higher, 5-10x higher than their neighbor countries.  But now Denmark's economy is rebounding much faster as it has the disease under control.

 

We are likely to see the same thing here.  By pursuing the strategy "Don’t let the cure — locking down the economy — be worse than the disease it is preventing", we are chasing a mirage - we are likely to still have a poor economy and loss of jobs.  Why?  Per investment strategist Dhavid Joshi, who compared Sweden and Denmark, “The simple answer is that in a pandemic, most people will change their behavior to avoid catching the virus. The cautious behavior is voluntary, irrespective of whether there is no lockdown, as in Sweden, or there is a lockdown, as in Denmark,” Joshi said.

“People will shun public transport, shopping, and other crowded places, and even think twice about letting their children go to school.”

 

Sure, some people in USA are thronging bars and restaurants.  But many are still cautious: working from home when they can, bringing their lunch if they must go to work; not shopping in stores; not taking vacations; not having non-essential work done inside their homes.  I would probably do ALL those things if the state I live in was like NYS and not populated by a bunch of "mask is a personal choice"ers who won't wear masks.

And (at least here) it's not the straight up "democrats vs republicans" thing it's portrayed.  People in this neighborhood are concerned about getting sick and losing their job (no work, no pay) or incurring medical bills that would put them in debt, or infecting a family elder they help care for.  They canceled their vacation; they socialize in a limited way with a few friends; they limit their shopping to essentials. 

 

Packed bars don't suffice to run the economy.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, there's several parts to assessing the consistency:

1) Was the group in Florida a smaller group than an entire team?  Yes.  Yes, it was.  So a guy might have less concern getting together with a smaller group than with an entire team + support staff.  So lower risk.

2) Was there the same degree of physical contact/closeness that there would be during a regular week of outdoor practice, much less a game?  No.  No, there was not - no DBs shadowing, no practice blocks.  So lower risk.

3) What were they doing when not practicing?  This could be higher, lower, or the same risk, depending, but 90+ sweaty guys showering and toweling off and changing in a relatively small space, then hanging out in meetings/training rooms etc all day is pretty close, prolonged contact

4) What has Diggs learned about covid-19 between the Florida practice session and his tweet?  People can legit transition from being not concerned, to being concerned (or vice versa), in the face of new information.  In fact this is the way it's supposed to work.

 

I'll add #5 to your list which IMO is the biggest difference.

 

They were practicing at a point in time when things were getting better in most of the county numbers wise.  Now things are heading out of control in many parts.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I mean yeah for a couple hours they can smash into each other and wrestle around, but once the game ends no conversations.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

This guy got it:

 

 

(not to mention DBs bumping and trying to jam the WR then tackling 'em;  RB and TE blocking; tackling the ball carrier and the QB)

 

6 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I mean yeah for a couple hours they can smash into each other and wrestle around, but once the game ends no conversations.

 

SMH.  SMDH.

 

My kid doesn't even particularly watch football but saw enough games from the HS pep band to know: "That's.  Ridiculous."

[Mr. WEO]

These millionaires stroking their chins as they contemplate not showing up for work.

 

Imagine if every hospital worker, grocery store worker and the workers who hand them their drive-through fast feed had such a luxury of contemplation?

[Warcodered]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

These millionaires stroking their chins as they contemplate not showing up for work.

 

Imagine if every hospital worker, grocery store worker and the workers who hand them their drive-through fast feed had such a luxury of contemplation?

So because some people have to put themselves at risk others that don't should. ?

[Mr. WEO]

17 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

So because some people have to put themselves at risk others that don't should. ?

 

They should do what they feel is best for them---they have that option.  The workers that I mentioned had a choice too, but it was a much more difficult one, or nearly impossible financially.

 

There's no need for these to go on and on about it publicly.  Who cares?  They aren't making any significant sacrifice:  don't play, still a millionaire.  Play, become a bigger millionaire and have a lower chance of debilitating illness from the virus than by constantly taking head shots for a career (a risk which they all eagerly accept, ironically).

 

Show up or pipe down.

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

They should do what they feel is best for them---they have that option.  The workers that I mentioned had a choice too, but it was a much more difficult one, or nearly impossible financially.

 

There's no need for these to go on and on about it publicly.  Who cares?  They aren't making any significant sacrifice:  don't play, still a millionaire.  Play, become a bigger millionaire and have a lower chance of debilitating illness from the virus than by constantly taking head shots for a career (a risk which they all eagerly accept, ironically).

 

Show up or pipe down.

Right because public opinion will have nothing to do with the NFL's decisions regarding this season. Also not all players are in that stable a position and those that aren't have far less influence on what's going to happen this season.

[Punching Bag]

On 7/8/2020 at 10:14 AM, SirAndrew said:

Fair enough, I know my opinion on this isn’t popular. Players have every right to be concerned, and I understand it. At the same time, I don’t really trust twenty something guys to quarantine themselves at home, which is exactly what makes the season a challenge.  If the season is called off, I doubt some of the guys who are ”concerned” all stay home, and avoid being exposed to the virus via parties, clubs, etc. If these guys say “ I want my salary, but I’m uncomfortable with playing”, I hope they legitimately use that money to quarantine themselves at home. Anything else would be a bit disingenuous. Honestly, I think most players will be fine with playing, if it can actually happen. 

 

I agree some want to be paid and not restrict themselves and just expect the NFL to pay them no matter what happens.  Players have shown this many times.  I do not think players are partners as they once claimed.

[machine gun kelly]

Not just players, but young people in general (many not all) are not showing restraints in distancing, masks, etc.  The only thing that seems to get their attention is the fines they receive in FL now if they go anywhere inside of public facilities.

 

The NFL players are crazy not to be protective if they get sick long enough, they don’t get paid.

[BillsFan17]

Once you allowed those protests/riots you lost all and any credibility about this virus. That simple. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 7/8/2020 at 5:48 AM, SirAndrew said:

I know this isn’t the popular opinion everyone has been conditioned to believe, but when I see things like that, it only confirms how common this virus is among the population. It shows that it’s everywhere, and by the time it’s over most of us will probably get it. That’s not saying it can’t be dangerous, and I’m not saying I’m safe from it. I’m simply making the point that when something is that common,

He did say he “ wasn't comfortable”, no need to call anyone an idiot. I just think it’s funny he was comfortable enough to hang out with a bunch of guys, and yet not comfortable playing a football season. We’re going to get a lot of athletes talking about how they are afraid to play because of Covid, yet we’ll see them hanging out at parties, and going to the bar etc. I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy. 

 

 

@SirAndrew, with all respect, your point About “no point in hiding” is common - and tremendously, let’s say, Naive.  NO, everyone has not been “conditioned to believe” something and that’s By Damn the PROBLEM here.

 

It’s been 60 years - I lose track, is that 3 generations?  2?  Since America had to deal with an unchecked epidemic disease for which there was no treatment and we’re not relearning how very gracefully.  Not to pick on you, but your post is Exhibit A.

 

In El Centro, California, they’ve put up hospital tents in the parking lot.  Now they’re down to their last tent.  

In SW Missouri, laboratories are so overwhelmed that they’re taking 5-10 days to return results.  That’s a point at which contact tracing is totally impossible and Public Health decisions become based upon information that’s a week old when the decision is discussed and made - that’s a losing tactical situation.

 

Basically what it’s saying to take the view “really no point in hiding” (even the use of the word hiding) is “Hey, you’re over 60?  Got one or more of a very common condition like obesity, heart disease, diabetes, hypertension (that’s something along the lines of 40-50% of the US population all together)?  Got some other factors we don’t understand yet but that lead to 30% of those hospitalized being 20-49 years old, some previously healthy?  Well ***** YOU VERY MUCH!  I’m going to LIVE MY LIFE and not COWER IN FEAR behind a horrid uncomfortable mask that can’t stop the virus but yet manages to restrict transfer of small molecule gasses. I can’t breathe.  BAR LIVES MATTER!”

 

This isn’t rocket science.  Back in the 1950s, it was understood that polio was transmitted most easily through fecal contamination of bodies of water (easy to achieve with kids) and poor hygiene around other secretions (boogers, etc).  Public health measures like closing swimming pools and scout camps and prohibiting public gatherings were instituted and accepted.  Homes and even towns with an infected person were quarantined.  Polio was crippling 35,000 Americans a year at that point and even though it became understood that it’s not a serious disease for 95% of the people who get it, no one was anxious to sign up to be The Man in the Iron Lung.  No one said “oh, damn, it’s common, life as usual.  Hey, BOLOs having a 2-fer on Longnecks, Jake, let’s go!”  It was recognized that maybe we should Respect the Germs and be willing to alter life’s trajectory somewhat.

 

That respect for contagious disease has gotten completely lost here.  Yes, COVID-19 common - and yes, it can still be contained, and containing is worthwhile because it ensures that top-notch medical care will be available to you (should you prove to be one of those younger, healthy people who become very ill), your family, and your friends.  It respects our elders who fought in WWII and Korea and actually lived through rationing and having loved ones go off to war and not come back, because it’s very difficult to protect a vulnerable population in the face of a widespread epidemic disease and we aren’t Doing what it Takes.

There are still states where the % positive tests is <1% despite vastly increased testing.  Life is going on - people are getting take out food and dining outside, they’re working, they’re shopping.  But it’s not normal, they’re wearing masks (or supposed to be) and some businesses like bars should probably remain closed if the patrons can’t discipline themselves to Respect the Virus.

 

The POINT is to maintain hospital capacity and keep the % positivity low enough that we have a shot to protect the vulnerable.  We all didn’t need to become NYC and repeat its mistakes, which is exactly where “no point!” is inexorably taking us.  And you know what? There is “no point” - it’s being done in the name of economic recovery, but the economy isn’t going to recover while an epidemic disease is still circulating, because much of the population IS going to take precautions and stay the ***** at home.  See “Sweden, Economy of, Today”.  

 

You type “ there’s really is no point in hiding anymore. Life might as well go on some point. ” and it needs to be read “Well ***** You Granny and Gramps.  ***** you very much.  Blake with Diabetes?  ***** him too, he might be a good kid and a brilliant programmer but he’s just a weakling, get him out of the Gene Pool.  Harry the Hypertensive?  ***** him too, shoulda started eating Paleo in his 20s, So What if his two minimum wage jobs and grocery desert make fried chicken and Mac n Cheese more accessible than crisp salad and lean meat.”  That’s what that truly means and IMHO it’s a ***** ugly attitude towards fellow humans.

 

OK, I’ve done my morning rant.  Peace Out.  

 

PS I gave 4 points and someone else added a 5th why Diggs might logically and consistently be comfortable practicing non-contact with a sub-group of teammates and not comfortable starting the season.  It’s upthread.

 

[Mr. WEO]

14 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Right because public opinion will have nothing to do with the NFL's decisions regarding this season. Also not all players are in that stable a position and those that aren't have far less influence on what's going to happen this season.

 

Public opinion?  I'm confident it is overwhelmingly that these guys get back to work and play games, no matter what the players say on twitter.

 

Every player on an NFL roster is in a better "position" than every supermarket/fastfood/nonprofessional hospital worker.  As for those players who are in a less "stable" position than Diggs, maybe he should chat with them before tweeting about what players should be doing going forward.

[Bring it]

Pretty tough decisions! Certainly can see the sense of lockdown as far as helping our healthcare system treat sick people in a timely fashion. But sooner or later it has to run it’s course and go thru the population. I’m pessimistic about games with fans until that happens!!

 I  don't  blame Diggs for his concern.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Public opinion?  I'm confident it is overwhelmingly that these guys get back to work and play games, no matter what the players say on twitter.

 

Every player on an NFL roster is in a better "position" than every supermarket/fastfood/nonprofessional hospital worker.  As for those players who are in a less "stable" position than Diggs, maybe he should chat with them before tweeting about what players should be doing going forward.

 

Where did Diggs tweet about “what players should be doing going forward”?  What I just saw, he said he’s not comfortable.  Isn’t he entitled to his own opinions?

 

Your analogy somewhat breaks down in that supermarket, fast food, and non professional hospital workers can take effective measures such as wearing a mask, maintaining distance through barriers and physical distance, and using other PPE such as gowns and gloves when they can’t.  Their efforts can be made more effective if the public respects them and also wears masks.

One can not do those things and play a contact team sport such as football.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Not that it’s gonna matter to you, but where did Diggs tweet about “what players should be doing going forward”?  What I just saw, he said he’s not comfortable.  Isn’t he entitled to his own opinions?

 

Also not that it matters to you, but the analogy somewhat breaks down in that supermarket, fast food, and non professional hospital workers can take effective measures such as wearing a mask, maintaining distance through barriers and physical distance, and using other PPE such as gowns and gloves when they can’t.  Their efforts can be made more effective if the public respects them and also wears masks.

One can not do those things and play a contact team sport such as football.

 

 

None of those workers I mentioned are being routinely tested (or tested at all, in most cases)---nor are the people they come in contact with.  Even hospital workers, as you well know, are contracting and succumbing to the virus despite all "precautions"---so that's a weak point.  As you also know, no expense will be spared to provide the best testing and monitoring and healthcare to protect these athletes from exposure (at least while they are working---bumming around FLA not included).

 

As I said, he certainly is entitled to his opinion.  He's had all spring to voice them.  Only now he seems troubled by the NFL going forward----and this is from a guy who has chosen to workout (with zero precautions) in Earth's current COVID epicenter.  So it's seems more than little bogus that he's truly concerned about this.

 

Enough already.

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

@SirAndrew, with all respect, your point About “no point in hiding” is common - and tremendously, let’s say, Naive.  NO, everyone has not been “conditioned to believe” something and that’s By Damn the PROBLEM here.

 

It’s been 60 years - I lose track, is that 3 generations?  2?  Since America had to deal with an unchecked epidemic disease for which there was no treatment and we’re not relearning how very gracefully.  Not to pick on you, but your post is Exhibit A.

 

In El Centro, California, they’ve put up hospital tents in the parking lot.  Now they’re down to their last tent.  

In SW Missouri, laboratories are so overwhelmed that they’re taking 5-10 days to return results.  That’s a point at which contact tracing is totally impossible and Public Health decisions become based upon information that’s a week old when the decision is discussed and made - that’s a losing tactical situation.

 

Basically what it’s saying to take the view “really no point in hiding” (even the use of the word hiding) is “Hey, you’re over 60?  Got one or more of a very common condition like obesity, heart disease, diabetes, hypertension (that’s something along the lines of 40-50% of the US population all together)?  Got some other factors we don’t understand yet but that lead to 30% of those hospitalized being 20-49 years old, some previously healthy?  Well ***** YOU VERY MUCH!  I’m going to LIVE MY LIFE and not COWER IN FEAR behind a horrid uncomfortable mask that can’t stop the virus but yet manages to restrict transfer of small molecule gasses. I can’t breathe.  BAR LIVES MATTER!”

 

This isn’t rocket science.  Back in the 1950s, it was understood that polio was transmitted most easily through fecal contamination of bodies of water (easy to achieve with kids) and poor hygiene around other secretions (boogers, etc).  Public health measures like closing swimming pools and scout camps and prohibiting public gatherings were instituted and accepted.  Homes and even towns with an infected person were quarantined.  Polio was crippling 35,000 Americans a year at that point and even though it became understood that it’s not a serious disease for 95% of the people who get it, no one was anxious to sign up to be The Man in the Iron Lung.  No one said “oh, damn, it’s common, life as usual.  Hey, BOLOs having a 2-fer on Longnecks, Jake, let’s go!”  It was recognized that maybe we should Respect the Germs and be willing to alter life’s trajectory somewhat.

 

That respect for contagious disease has gotten completely lost here.  Yes, COVID-19 common - and yes, it can still be contained, and containing is worthwhile because it ensures that top-notch medical care will be available to you (should you prove to be one of those younger, healthy people who become very ill), your family, and your friends.  It respects our elders who fought in WWII and Korea and actually lived through rationing and having loved ones go off to war and not come back, because it’s very difficult to protect a vulnerable population in the face of a widespread epidemic disease and we aren’t Doing what it Takes.

There are still states where the % positive tests is <1% despite vastly increased testing.  Life is going on - people are getting take out food and dining outside, they’re working, they’re shopping.  But it’s not normal, they’re wearing masks (or supposed to be) and some businesses like bars should probably remain closed if the patrons can’t discipline themselves to Respect the Virus.

 

The POINT is to maintain hospital capacity and keep the % positivity low enough that we have a shot to protect the vulnerable.  We all didn’t need to become NYC and repeat its mistakes, which is exactly where “no point!” is inexorably taking us.  And you know what? There is “no point” - it’s being done in the name of economic recovery, but the economy isn’t going to recover while an epidemic disease is still circulating, because much of the population IS going to take precautions and stay the ***** at home.  See “Sweden, Economy of, Today”.  

 

You type “ there’s really is no point in hiding anymore. Life might as well go on some point. ” and it needs to be read “Well ***** You Granny and Gramps.  ***** you very much.  Blake with Diabetes?  ***** him too, he might be a good kid and a brilliant programmer but he’s just a weakling, get him out of the Gene Pool.  Harry the Hypertensive?  ***** him too, shoulda started eating Paleo in his 20s, So What if his two minimum wage jobs and grocery desert make fried chicken and Mac n Cheese more accessible than crisp salad and lean meat.”  That’s what that truly means and IMHO it’s a ***** ugly attitude towards fellow humans.

 

OK, I’ve done my morning rant.  Peace Out.  

 

PS I gave 4 points and someone else added a 5th why Diggs might logically and consistently be comfortable practicing non-contact with a sub-group of teammates and not comfortable starting the season.  It’s upthread.

 

 

Hapless, you ate you're Wheaties this morning, but not wrong at all.  Well played my friend, well played.

[hondo in seattle]

In regards to Diggs, he has a right to be concerned.  Either the NFL needs to cancel the season or take effective precautions.  It can't be football as normal - that just isn't responsible.

 

I'm not certain what the 'effective precautions' might be (hopefully something more robust than banning jersey exchanges!) but there's another thread about modified football helmets.  Since Covid 19 is spread primarily by respiratory droplets (and, maybe, respiratory aerosols) a modified football helmet like the one below might help.

 

 

https://www.americanfootballinternational.com/is-that-what-an-nfl-covid-19-helmet-could-look-like/

Edited July 10, 2020 by hondo in seattle

[BuffaloBob]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

In regards to Diggs, he has a right to be concerned.  Either the NFL needs to cancel the season or take effective precautions.  It can't be football as normal - that just isn't responsible.

 

I'm not certain what the 'effective precautions' might be but there's another thread about modified football helmets.  Since Covid 19 is spread primarily by respiratory droplets (and, maybe, respiratory aerosols) a modified football helmet like the one below might help.

 

 

https://www.americanfootballinternational.com/is-that-what-an-nfl-covid-19-helmet-could-look-like/

I want one!!

[SirAndrew]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

@SirAndrew, with all respect, your point About “no point in hiding” is common - and tremendously, let’s say, Naive.  NO, everyone has not been “conditioned to believe” something and that’s By Damn the PROBLEM here.

 

It’s been 60 years - I lose track, is that 3 generations?  2?  Since America had to deal with an unchecked epidemic disease for which there was no treatment and we’re not relearning how very gracefully.  Not to pick on you, but your post is Exhibit A.

 

In El Centro, California, they’ve put up hospital tents in the parking lot.  Now they’re down to their last tent.  

In SW Missouri, laboratories are so overwhelmed that they’re taking 5-10 days to return results.  That’s a point at which contact tracing is totally impossible and Public Health decisions become based upon information that’s a week old when the decision is discussed and made - that’s a losing tactical situation.

 

Basically what it’s saying to take the view “really no point in hiding” (even the use of the word hiding) is “Hey, you’re over 60?  Got one or more of a very common condition like obesity, heart disease, diabetes, hypertension (that’s something along the lines of 40-50% of the US population all together)?  Got some other factors we don’t understand yet but that lead to 30% of those hospitalized being 20-49 years old, some previously healthy?  Well ***** YOU VERY MUCH!  I’m going to LIVE MY LIFE and not COWER IN FEAR behind a horrid uncomfortable mask that can’t stop the virus but yet manages to restrict transfer of small molecule gasses. I can’t breathe.  BAR LIVES MATTER!”

 

This isn’t rocket science.  Back in the 1950s, it was understood that polio was transmitted most easily through fecal contamination of bodies of water (easy to achieve with kids) and poor hygiene around other secretions (boogers, etc).  Public health measures like closing swimming pools and scout camps and prohibiting public gatherings were instituted and accepted.  Homes and even towns with an infected person were quarantined.  Polio was crippling 35,000 Americans a year at that point and even though it became understood that it’s not a serious disease for 95% of the people who get it, no one was anxious to sign up to be The Man in the Iron Lung.  No one said “oh, damn, it’s common, life as usual.  Hey, BOLOs having a 2-fer on Longnecks, Jake, let’s go!”  It was recognized that maybe we should Respect the Germs and be willing to alter life’s trajectory somewhat.

 

That respect for contagious disease has gotten completely lost here.  Yes, COVID-19 common - and yes, it can still be contained, and containing is worthwhile because it ensures that top-notch medical care will be available to you (should you prove to be one of those younger, healthy people who become very ill), your family, and your friends.  It respects our elders who fought in WWII and Korea and actually lived through rationing and having loved ones go off to war and not come back, because it’s very difficult to protect a vulnerable population in the face of a widespread epidemic disease and we aren’t Doing what it Takes.

There are still states where the % positive tests is <1% despite vastly increased testing.  Life is going on - people are getting take out food and dining outside, they’re working, they’re shopping.  But it’s not normal, they’re wearing masks (or supposed to be) and some businesses like bars should probably remain closed if the patrons can’t discipline themselves to Respect the Virus.

 

The POINT is to maintain hospital capacity and keep the % positivity low enough that we have a shot to protect the vulnerable.  We all didn’t need to become NYC and repeat its mistakes, which is exactly where “no point!” is inexorably taking us.  And you know what? There is “no point” - it’s being done in the name of economic recovery, but the economy isn’t going to recover while an epidemic disease is still circulating, because much of the population IS going to take precautions and stay the ***** at home.  See “Sweden, Economy of, Today”.  

 

You type “ there’s really is no point in hiding anymore. Life might as well go on some point. ” and it needs to be read “Well ***** You Granny and Gramps.  ***** you very much.  Blake with Diabetes?  ***** him too, he might be a good kid and a brilliant programmer but he’s just a weakling, get him out of the Gene Pool.  Harry the Hypertensive?  ***** him too, shoulda started eating Paleo in his 20s, So What if his two minimum wage jobs and grocery desert make fried chicken and Mac n Cheese more accessible than crisp salad and lean meat.”  That’s what that truly means and IMHO it’s a ***** ugly attitude towards fellow humans.

 

OK, I’ve done my morning rant.  Peace Out.  

 

PS I gave 4 points and someone else added a 5th why Diggs might logically and consistently be comfortable practicing non-contact with a sub-group of teammates and not comfortable starting the season.  It’s upthread.

 

I never said most of what you assume . I wear a mask, I take precautions, I believe it’s real and dangerous, and I understand that we don’t want the health care system to be overwhelmed. You seem overly sensitive. At no point did I say I don’t care about society. I’m making the point that shutdowns were to prevent the system from being overwhelmed. There were never any guarantees we would prevent the majority of the population from being exposed to the virus. That’s the point I was making, and didn’t mean for it to sound poorly. 
 

We have no clue when an EFFECTIVE vaccine will be available. I hope the virus doesn’t take too many lives, but there might be nothing stopping the majority of us from being exposed, unless we stay permanently shut down. It can be dangerous, so I don’t lack an understanding of that. I’m making the point that people will be exposed until we find a vaccine. I’ve been exposed, and I am “ Harry the hypertensive”, but I have mouths to feed, so I can’t sit in fear everyday. I take precautions, because I’m not the ignorant anti mask/anti precautions person you assume me to be. The virus is so out of control right now, I simply question the logic of people who think they will escape ever being exposed, it was just a thought. I don’t believe it can be “contained” or eradicated without a vaccine, because it is too widespread in the states. With all due respect, I’d love to hear how you think it can be contained at this point ? I genuinely would like to hear some ideas. Other than a complete shutdown of the country, I don’t see containment happening. I’m cool with any athlete who chooses to sit out. I’d use the money to self quarantine as well. I simply questioned how many athletes who sit out the season would actual do that, or be out at clubs etc. That’s just my bias towards 20 something pro athletes, but it was simply my only question. 
 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by SirAndrew

[SirAndrew]

10 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

I agree some want to be paid and not restrict themselves and just expect the NFL to pay them no matter what happens.  Players have shown this many times.  I do not think players are partners as they once claimed.

Well said, I get tired of this idea that NFL owners are some evil entity that uses forced labor to profit. The owners are out to make a buck, that’s how the world works. We are in the middle of a pandemic, yet millions of people have been called back to work. It’s not just NFL owners who need to stay profitable. If a guy doesn’t want to play, that’s fine, but I was just surprised with the amount of sympathy over their “plight” when some of them decided to voice concerns publicly.