Stefon Diggs concerned about football starting back up

[Mango]

43 minutes ago, MJS said:

His writing skills are very good. He wrote that article awhile back and I was impressed.

 

Writing is definately a skill that seems to be falling by the wayside.

Personal stories and anecdotes exist on both sides of any argument. That's why you have to follow the aggregate data.

 

There are horror stories from the common cold or chicken pox. And you also have stories of people unaffected by deadly diseases. Individual stories should not be used to make decisions.

 

When you are dealing with hundreds of millions of people, of course there are horror stories.

I was working on how to respond, but really the only thing you provided was “aggregate data”. You’ve offered no meat to any opinion. So I am just going to leave it to @Hapless Bills Fan

 

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Except....that wasn't a horror story.  She didn't have organ failure, or a stroke.  She didn't wind up in ICU or intubated, or even on oxygen.  She didn't take 63 days to recover.

 

That was the experience of a young elite athlete with no pre-existing conditions who contracted what is considered to be a mild case of covid-19 and experienced what most people would call "no lasting effects".  And it knocked her out for a month, and she's still working back to her previous level.

 

There is no aggregate data of which I'm aware detailing how long young fit people take to recover.

 

Also...what is the "argument"?  Is there argument that "mild" cases of covid-19 can have lasting effects that take months to recover from?  How many case histories does one need to believe that?

 

Right? Unsure what the point is. We should start the season? We shouldn’t wear masks? Most of the 1200 people sitting in cubicles at Ingram are just a little more out of breath chasing their kids, so Stefon Diggs shouldn’t be worried? 
 

 

[OZBILLS]

Bit of fake crowd noise on the TV and i'll forget about it quickly

[Warcodered]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Always remember, it did not have to be this way.

 

Many other countries either squelched this, or (even if it initially blew up on them) got it under control.

 

 

There was a moment where it really felt like we were all pulling in the same direction and like we might get this under control back when we were all making jokes about how every company came out with their own "In this together" ad. Then it became apparent that this was going to be hard and difficult and instead of digging deep and working together to get ahead of this thing we just crumbled like a sand castle. Also while it's definitely a conversation and movement that I think needs to be had George Floyd happened and we're going through the conversation and turmoil of needed societal change. Like I said it's definitely something that needs done but it's kind of hard to argue the logic that it happening during a global pandemic is not very ideal.

[transplantbillsfan]

It's the boat everyone is in.

 

I'm a teacher. I actually REALLY want to get back in the classroom because I think this "distance learning" sucks and students aren't actually learning.

 

Then again, I'm in good health and keep a very small social circle.

 

I have good friends who are coworkers who are basically refusing to go back into the classroom because they have underlying health conditions like diabetes and heart issues. 

 

And I don't blame them at all.

 

I'll be honest: a month ago I was like 99.9% sure we'd have an NFL season. Not there anymore, though I still think it's much more likely than not that we have a season...

 

Although that might also just be wishful thinking... ?

[2ForMacAdoo]

4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

It's the boat everyone is in.

 

I'm a teacher. I actually REALLY want to get back in the classroom because I think this "distance learning" sucks and students aren't actually learning.

 

Then again, I'm in good health and keep a very small social circle.

 

I have good friends who are coworkers who are basically refusing to go back into the classroom because they have underlying health conditions like diabetes and heart issues. 

 

And I don't blame them at all.

 

I'll be honest: a month ago I was like 99.9% sure we'd have an NFL season. Not there anymore, though I still think it's much more likely than not that we have a season...

 

Although that might also just be wishful thinking... ?

Hey fellow teacher, totally agree with you about remote learning being far from ideal. 

 

I think ultimately they will try to start the season but realistically I just can't see them finishing. Name a more contact sport than the NFL. Players breathing, spitting, sweating on each other. The perfect storm for transmission. Boy how I hope I'm wrong. Best chance for the Bills to make some noise in 30 years. 

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Except....that wasn't a horror story.  She didn't have organ failure, or a stroke.  She didn't wind up in ICU or intubated, or even on oxygen.  She didn't take 63 days to recover.

 

That was the experience of a young elite athlete with no pre-existing conditions who contracted what is considered to be a mild case of covid-19 and experienced what most people would call "no lasting effects".  And it knocked her out for a month, and she's still working back to her previous level.

 

There is no aggregate data of which I'm aware detailing how long young fit people take to recover.

 

Also...what is the "argument"?  Is there argument that "mild" cases of covid-19 can have lasting effects that take months to recover from?  How many case histories does one need to believe that?

 

The argument is that young, fit people should be afraid of COVID-19 because there's a story about someone who was "knocked out for a month" from it.

 

And there's a story of an 80 year old man with heart complications who got it and was completely asymptomatic.

 

And there's a story of a child who got the disease and was hospitalized even though most children don't get it or at least have very mild cases.

 

And there's stories of hospitals that are completely full and others that are completely empty.

 

And the stories go on and on....

 

People like to make their points about COVID-19 by telling a heartfelt story about a case they heard, but for every story there is another saying the opposite. So people shouldn't be making decisions based on stories. They should be making decisions based on the best available aggregate data (of which there is very little right now).

 

A story tells us almost nothing about the disease. One case is almost (but not completely) meaningless.

1 hour ago, Mango said:

Right? Unsure what the point is. We should start the season? We shouldn’t wear masks? Most of the 1200 people sitting in cubicles at Ingram are just a little more out of breath chasing their kids, so Stefon Diggs shouldn’t be worried?

 

Diggs has every right to be worried and it is only natural to be worried in a time like this. I think my point is pretty clear. People like to back up their opinions using individual cases when those individual cases cannot actually be used to support anything. Because they are in a vacuum by themselves and don't apply to anything on a large scale.

[machine gun kelly]

I don’t understand the problem on Diggs comments, or Arians for that matter.  People will test positive and anyone not concerned when they are put in a tough position where to make $, they have to put themselves at risk is naive.  At least Arians who is not in perfect health is smart enough to wear a mask, and face shield as he knows he is an at risk person.

[SirAndrew]

Funny how Diggs is afraid to play the season, yet a huge number of Bills players got together for practice. They even took a group picture all huddled together with no masks. Who knows how many guys came out of the practice as positive asymptomatic if they had been tested. People are real idiots about this virus. It seems like they pick and choose when they want to be safe. 

[BillsPride12]

12 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

Funny how Diggs is afraid to play the season, yet a huge number of Bills players got together for practice. They even took a group picture all huddled together with no masks. Who knows how many guys came out of the practice as positive asymptomatic if they had been tested. People are real idiots about this virus. It seems like they pick and choose when they want to be safe. 

Diggs was at that practice.  He never said he was "afraid" to play the season.  The comments he made were legitimate.  Some people are real idiots about what they post on message boards.

[SirAndrew]

8 hours ago, driddles said:

FC Dallas had to pull out of the opening MLS tournament after 10 players tested positive*.  Get too many of these types of stories and players in all leagues are going to be questioning the sanity of trying to play in 2020

* That's 10 of 30 players on the roster.  What happens if an NFL team gets hit like that?  Can't exactly play with 17 players out.. for 2 weeks or more.

Link https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mls/fcdallas/2020/07/06/mls-fc-dallas-pulls-out-orlando-tournament-coronavirus/5387643002/ 

I know this isn’t the popular opinion everyone has been conditioned to believe, but when I see things like that, it only confirms how common this virus is among the population. It shows that it’s everywhere, and by the time it’s over most of us will probably get it. That’s not saying it can’t be dangerous, and I’m not saying I’m safe from it. I’m simply making the point that when something is that common, there’s really is no point in hiding anymore. Life might as well go on some point. 

1 minute ago, BillsPride12 said:

Diggs was at that practice.  He never said he was "afraid" to play the season.  The comments he made were legitimate.  Some people are real idiots about what they post on message boards.

He did say he “ wasn't comfortable”, no need to call anyone an idiot. I just think it’s funny he was comfortable enough to hang out with a bunch of guys, and yet not comfortable playing a football season. We’re going to get a lot of athletes talking about how they are afraid to play because of Covid, yet we’ll see them hanging out at parties, and going to the bar etc. I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy. 

 

[BillsPride12]

6 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I know this isn’t the popular opinion everyone has been conditioned to believe, but when I see things like that, it only confirms how common this virus is among the population. It shows that it’s everywhere, and by the time it’s over most of us will probably get it. That’s not saying it can’t be dangerous, and I’m not saying I’m safe from it. I’m simply making the point that when something is that common, there’s really is no point in hiding anymore. Life might as well go on some point. 

He did say he “ wasn't comfortable”, no need to call anyone an idiot. I just think it’s funny he was comfortable enough to hang out with a bunch of guys, and yet not comfortable playing a football season. We’re going to get a lot of athletes talking about how they are afraid to play because of Covid, yet we’ll see them hanging out at parties, and going to the bar etc. I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy. 

 

There's still a lot of uncertainty with the virus so I can understand why some guys wouldn't feel comfortable when you think about how close contact is when your actually playing at full speed when the spit and sweat is flying.  I just felt like you were belittling him by turning it into he's afraid to play.  Afraid and not comfortable are two completely different things.  My last comment was just a play on words from the post I was quoting you on but I agree it was still rather rude lol and I was not trying to make it personal so I apologize for that remark.  Go Bills

[eball]

11 hours ago, The Dean said:

Demonstrating some intelligence, I'd say.

 

Well said.  Any player who isn’t concerned at this point is lacking a little something upstairs, if you ask me.

[Mickey]

11 hours ago, BillsDude said:

He has a right to be concerned. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool. A bunch of grown men hanging around each other for about four hours sneezing, coughing and spitting, then with phlemn flying onto each other as they pound each other and yell profanities. Some may even go pee and have it spray all over. That is not even factoring in the nose pickers and guys that hug, and the ones handing sharpie pens to teammates after a TD. They use the same toilets too I think. While fans are sitting at home on weekends, thry have to worry about that c**p. They worked their entire butts off for ten yrs or more, and all the money in the world means nothing if get that virus  thing. Likely a life of returning respiratory probs, assuming no death occurs. Only a crazy person would not worry.

 

I confess I have never been in an NFL locker room (due to still active restraining orders) but I had no idea that players spend their time bathing in mucous, snacking on each other's boogers and peeing on each other. I guess I should have taken all that talk about "team chemistry" more literally.

[SirAndrew]

21 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

There's still a lot of uncertainty with the virus so I can understand why some guys wouldn't feel comfortable when you think about how close contact is when your actually playing at full speed when the spit and sweat is flying.  I just felt like you were belittling him by turning it into he's afraid to play.  Afraid and not comfortable are two completely different things.  My last comment was just a play on words from the post I was quoting you on but I agree it was still rather rude lol and I was not trying to make it personal so I apologize for that remark.  Go Bills

I’m not specifically talking about Diggs here, but comments like his just made wonder how many guys might want to sit out the season knowing it will be a cluster and complete headache. I’m not saying it isn’t valid for a player to be concerned about Covid, but they also know they can cite it as a reason not to play, and most fans will be sympathetic. I’m just skeptical knowing most twenty something guys don’t have much fear, and many of them have already done things that show lack of fear about the pandemic. I shouldn’t question someones true intent, but this will be a strange season. It’s uncertain if it will ever begin, if it will get cut short, or if entire teams will be sidelined, forcing them to forfeit. Those are

all great reasons to be uncertain about the season. I think players have other motives in addition to

Covid that might make them want to sit out.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by SirAndrew

[GottaRun]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew said:

I know this isn’t the popular opinion everyone has been conditioned to believe, but when I see things like that, it only confirms how common this virus is among the population. It shows that it’s everywhere, and by the time it’s over most of us will probably get it. That’s not saying it can’t be dangerous, and I’m not saying I’m safe from it. I’m simply making the point that when something is that common, there’s really is no point in hiding anymore. Life might as well go on some point. 

You say "Life might as well go on at some point", sure, but that point is not now. There is no way for NFL life to go on if 1/3 of the game day roster is sick and needs to quarantine for 2 weeks or more.

After FC Dallas had to pull out of the opening tournament due to 10 (now 11) positive tests, MLS had to cancel its second game due to 5 positive test results with Nashville.

Are you really wanting to watch an NFL season where games are being cancelled, re-scheduled, or played with teams missing 1/3 of their starters?  (I say 1/3 as FC Dallas lost 10 of 30 players or 1/3 of their roster, so I figure the same or similar will happen to an NFL team at some point)

Edited July 8, 2020 by driddles

[teef]

hell, i'm concerned whether schools will start back up, i'm concerned that they're going to start shutting business back down, i'm concerned still about my elderly relatives, i'm concerned about there being a football season, etc.  there's a lot to think about right now.

 

who knows what going to happen over the next 8 weeks. 

[Greg S]

I know all the league's will try to get going but I don't think there will be sports in 2020. If this was under control I would feel more optimistic but to many states are seeing a rise in cases popping up. Players may also opt out not to play which we are seeing some baseball players do. It figures this **** has to happen when the Bills finally appear to be a good team but health wise I think its going to be next to impossible to complete a season.

[Don Otreply]

This whole pandemic has been poorly handled since we knew about it as far back as before January,  far to many of our officials and our citizens have acted and are still acting so stupidly that Diggs is right to be very concerned.

 

Look at what we Americans have done to ourselves and each other, one would have to be a mental midget to not be worried about what is happening throughout our country.

 

It truly sucks, but we have brought this upon ourselves. We should not be wanting to purposefully put others at risk for our entertainment,  purposes,  what does that say about us, are we so narrow in our thoughts?

 

Me, I’m a high risk category guy, congestive heart failure, blood type A,  DVT/PE history, over sixty, if I catch this, it  kills me.

[DCbillsfan]

Due to the timing of the virus, the NFL is starting to catch up with the rest of the sports world.  They're seeing athletes from other sports getting the virus even though they're following safety protocols.  Training camp is scheduled to start in about 3 weeks.  Reality is starting to sink in with the NFL players.  Despite their best efforts to stay healthy, quite a few will likely get the virus.  I can't blame Diggs at all for raising concerns about playing.

[Mango]

14 hours ago, MJS said:

The argument is that young, fit people should be afraid of COVID-19 because there's a story about someone who was "knocked out for a month" from it.

 

And there's a story of an 80 year old man with heart complications who got it and was completely asymptomatic.

 

And there's a story of a child who got the disease and was hospitalized even though most children don't get it or at least have very mild cases.

 

And there's stories of hospitals that are completely full and others that are completely empty.

 

And the stories go on and on....

 

People like to make their points about COVID-19 by telling a heartfelt story about a case they heard, but for every story there is another saying the opposite. So people shouldn't be making decisions based on stories. They should be making decisions based on the best available aggregate data (of which there is very little right now).

 

A story tells us almost nothing about the disease. One case is almost (but not completely) meaningless.

 

Diggs has every right to be worried and it is only natural to be worried in a time like this. I think my point is pretty clear. People like to back up their opinions using individual cases when those individual cases cannot actually be used to support anything. Because they are in a vacuum by themselves and don't apply to anything on a large scale.

I shared it from a friend, so it wasn’t some random copy and paste internet troll story. 
 

The argument wasn’t that they should “be afraid”. The last part of her post is “please wear a mask”. 

 

There’s about 30 women at the training center. I know of at least 5 who got it around the same time. None of them have bounced back like yet. And none have stories of getting sick and moving on. Again, nobody is studying the effects on elite respiratory systems. Young healthy people shouldn’t be afraid they should die, but what you might call discomfort or difficulty for a few weeks,  has a chance of being career altering for many others. Literally that’s the point of the post as it relates to this thread. 
 

Also, wear a ***** mask! 
 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Mango