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Patriots got a little weaker - James Devlin retires

CorkScrewHill
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NoSaint Hall of Famer

NoSaint

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3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

I honestly don't know why ANYONE is scared of this team.

 

If anybody else was going into camp with Brian Hoyer and Jarrett Stidham at the top of their QB depth chart, they would be a laughing stock.  Not to mention, they have done absolutely nothing to upgrade their offensive skill positions (which were pretty bad last season).  Because it's Bill Belichick, everyone assumes he just knows something everyone else doesn't.  

 

Who is scared of them?

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chris heff Veteran

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1 hour ago, notwoz said:

In 2008, Belichick coached a team led by Matt Cassel to a 10-5 record when Brady went down with a knee injury. That includes two wins over the Bills. During Brady’s four-game Deflategate suspension in 2016, Belichick got three wins out of a combination of Jimmy Garoppolo and Jacoby Brissett. 

I wouldn't underestimate Belichick. 
 

And his first year in NE without Brady he went 5-11.

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jwhit34 RFA

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Trying to be as objective as possible, are the Patriots stronger than the Bills at any position group? 

 

Bills definitely stronger at: QB, RB, WR, TE, DL, LB

Bills probably better at: OL

Think Bills are better but closest: DB 

 

Maybe punter? 

 

Yes they have the best coach. 

 

Pats go 3-3 in division, 1-3 vs. NFC west, 2-2 at best vs. AFC West, lose to Ravens, flip a coin vs. Texans, that's 7-9 or 6-10. 

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BuffaloBills1998 Veteran

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1 hour ago, chris heff said:

And his first year in NE without Brady he went 5-11.

I think he went 5-11 back to back years before Brady got the start

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:


And I actually am in the minority that I think Stidham will be okay. Not great, maybe like Matt Moore with the Panthers good.

Matt Moore was a great back up that’s as far as it got for him. He got benched multiple times back in Carolina

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Don Otreply All Pro

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On 4/27/2020 at 4:45 PM, RobbRiddick said:

I'd honestly be surprised if Belichick signs a 'known'' QB. I think he's going to be so motivated to do well this season with this roster so he can show what a genius he is, that he can do it without Brady and a roster people are writing off. 

 

At this point Brady and Belichick are like two songwriting partners who have had a bunch of hits but each one feels the other guy unfairly gets too much of the credit. 

 

 

Simon & Garfunkel, which one is which Bill = Paul and Tom =Art ?

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Punching Bag Hall of Famer

Punching Bag

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On 4/27/2020 at 3:47 PM, CorkScrewHill said:

James Devlin FB retires. He was a very good blocker for them. Sorry that he is hurt, but glad that he creates a hole for the Patsies.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001111928/article/roundup-patriots-fb-james-devlin-retiring-from-nfl

 

 

Will New England let him unretire if he wants to play for the T*m Br*dy Buccaneers? 

On 4/27/2020 at 4:07 PM, mjt328 said:

I honestly don't know why ANYONE is scared of this team.

 

If anybody else was going into camp with Brian Hoyer and Jarrett Stidham at the top of their QB depth chart, they would be a laughing stock.  Not to mention, they have done absolutely nothing to upgrade their offensive skill positions (which were pretty bad last season).  Because it's Bill Belichick, everyone assumes he just knows something everyone else doesn't.  

 

 

He knows they are tanking?

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Punching Bag Hall of Famer

Punching Bag

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On 4/27/2020 at 4:45 PM, RobbRiddick said:

I'd honestly be surprised if Belichick signs a 'known'' QB. I think he's going to be so motivated to do well this season with this roster so he can show what a genius he is, that he can do it without Brady and a roster people are writing off. 

 

At this point Brady and Belichick are like two songwriting partners who have had a bunch of hits but each one feels the other guy unfairly gets too much of the credit. 

 

 

 

 

When one starts talking about cheating and US says enough with NFL coverups.  IRS digs in and press charges on unreported money.

 

 

On 4/27/2020 at 7:04 PM, MJS said:

Not expecting them to really suck or anything, but I just don't think it's possible for them to not take at least a modest step back. If they win double digit games this year, we'll all have to admit yet again what a great cheater Bill Belichick is.

 

Corrected. Some still will not.

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4merper4mer Hall of Famer

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On April 27, 2020 at 7:46 PM, Mr. WEO said:

Wow, a team goes down after...a FB retires?  What's the status of their long snapper though?  Ans what happens when they retire their fax machines and cordless phones??

Re-read the title and you'll see little need to be defensive about your team.  OP simply said a little weaker.

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Billl Veteran

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On 4/27/2020 at 6:12 PM, MJS said:

I also feel it isn't relevant to refer to what he did with Matt Cassel and a loaded roster 13 years ago, but that seems to come up a lot.

The people wanting to declare the Patriots dead need to get on the same page.  Some keep talking about how bad he is at drafting.  Others want to say that the only reason he won so many games with Cassel is because of the incredible roster he built.  He built the roster that was good enough to win 11 games with a backup QB.

 

Everyone has been asking what QB he plans to draft or sign that could make them a good team.  Nobody is considering that BB might believe in Stidham.  He’s had 2 years to prepare for this eventuality.  Nothing he’s done would lead me to believe he’s hell bent on overhauling the QB position.

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23 minutes ago, Billl said:

The people wanting to declare the Patriots dead need to get on the same page.  Some keep talking about how bad he is at drafting.  Others want to say that the only reason he won so many games with Cassel is because of the incredible roster he built.  He built the roster that was good enough to win 11 games with a backup QB.

 

Everyone has been asking what QB he plans to draft or sign that could make them a good team.  Nobody is considering that BB might believe in Stidham.  He’s had 2 years to prepare for this eventuality.  Nothing he’s done would lead me to believe he’s hell bent on overhauling the QB position.

Why do people need to be on the same page? Why can't they have their own opinions?

 

My opinion is that BB is the best coach ever. Hest a good GM, but nothing special. He doesn't draft better than anyone or sign free agents better than anyone. He is great at trading, though.

 

The current pats team is significantly weaker than probably any team he's had, in my opinion. Even with Brady I think they would struggle to get to double digit wins, and without Brady I don't think they will. I don't care how good Stidham is, hest not going to be as good as even 42 year old Brady. I'm looking forward to facing them.

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Billl Veteran

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18 hours ago, MJS said:

Why do people need to be on the same page? Why can't they have their own opinions?

You should at least be on the same page as your own post.  You’ve said in this thread that BB was able to win 11 games with a backup QB because of the stacked roster.  Then you say he’s nothing special as a GM.  Which is it?  Who do you think built that stacked roster?  
 

New England had one of the best defenses in the league last season.  They had probably the best special teams in the league last season.  You can win a lot of games with those two things even if your offense sucks.  Hell, Buffalo’s offense sucked last year and their special teams were mediocre and they won 10 games.  There’s a reason the Patriots are the favorites to win the AFCE in Vegas.  I think the Bills win the division, but it’s still going to be a tough putt.

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Success All Pro

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1 hour ago, Billl said:

You should at least be on the same page as your own post.  You’ve said in this thread that BB was able to win 11 games with a backup QB because of the stacked roster.  Then you say he’s nothing special as a GM.  Which is it?  Who do you think built that stacked roster?  
 

New England had one of the best defenses in the league last season.  They had probably the best special teams in the league last season.  You can win a lot of games with those two things even if your offense sucks.  Hell, Buffalo’s offense sucked last year and their special teams were mediocre and they won 10 games.  There’s a reason the Patriots are the favorites to win the AFCE in Vegas.  I think the Bills win the division, but it’s still going to be a tough putt.

Keep in mind that their special teams coach is now w/ the Giants.

 

As for the D, were they really all that?  They looked amazing the 1st 8 games, against weak opponents (except us!)  After that, they were fine, but not a world beater. And they lost key players like Van Noy and Collins, in addition to some key players getting into "old" territory.

 

Beyond all of that, losing their O-line coach is a big deal. He held that line together w/ spit & glue at times.  Now they have to protect a 2nd year QB?  Bring it on.

 

I know we're trained to be cautious w/ the Pats, but it is OVAH.  When dynasties end, they tend to go over a cliff.  Remember when it looked like the Warriors were going to keep dominating the NBA for years?  Remember when Shula started to seem like the game had passed him by, after terrorizing us for almost 2 decades?

 

I see the Pats finishing 3rd at best next year.  Stidham will be the 1st of a line of QB's that can't fill the shoes.

 

 

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Ecmic82 UDFA

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1 hour ago, Billl said:

You should at least be on the same page as your own post.  You’ve said in this thread that BB was able to win 11 games with a backup QB because of the stacked roster.  Then you say he’s nothing special as a GM.  Which is it?  Who do you think built that stacked roster?  


Can Bill be regarded as merely a “good GM” while simultaneously acknowledging that he’s constructed at least one stacked roster over the past twenty years?

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Billl Veteran

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15 hours ago, Ecmic82 said:


Can Bill be regarded as merely a “good GM” while simultaneously acknowledging that he’s constructed at least one stacked roster over the past twenty years?

19 consecutive winning seasons says he’s a great GM.  17 division titles says he’s a great GM.  9 Super Bowl appearances and 6 Super Bowl rings say he’s a great GM.  $100 bet on New England to win the division pays $91.  That same bet on the Bills pays $175, so Vegas thinks New England is about twice as likely to win the division as Buffalo.

 

I’ve said several times that I think Buffalo is the best team in the division.  I haven’t seen anyone on this site pick NE to win it.That probably means Vegas is going to clean up on people sleeping on BB.

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CorkScrewHill Veteran

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On 4/27/2020 at 7:46 PM, Mr. WEO said:

Wow, a team goes down after...a FB retires?  What's the status of their long snapper though?  Ans what happens when they retire their fax machines and cordless phones??

Mr. Weo .. a little weaker means "by a small amount". He was a good FB, if you disagree with that, well that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but if as many believe he was a strong blocker and now they will have a lesser blocker .. well then they are a little weaker.

 

As for their cordless phone I suppose they may be weaker if they have been using it to listen in to other team's phone calls (they are crafty).  

 

 

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Ecmic82 UDFA

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2 hours ago, Billl said:

19 consecutive winning seasons says he’s a great GM.  17 division titles says he’s a great GM.  9 Super Bowl appearances and 6 Super Bowl rings say he’s a great GM.  $100 bet on New England to win the division pays $91.  That same bet on the Bills pays $175, so Vegas thinks New England is about twice as likely to win the division as Buffalo.

 

I’ve said several times that I think Buffalo is the best team in the division.  I haven’t seen anyone on this site pick NE to win it.That probably means Vegas is going to clean up on people sleeping on BB.

 

I’m not going to argue he isn’t a great GM. He’s done well in selecting for Bill-the-coach’s system. He has intimate knowledge of what the best coach in league history wants, and he provides. Could he find such successful synergy with any coach that wasn’t himself? For now that’s unknowable, and I’m not sure it matters much, practically. But believing he *isnt* a great GM and acknowledging he built a stacked roster or two aren’t in and of themselves either/or propositions.

 

as for Vegas, I believe there is a ton of flawed regressive analysis when it comes to the Patriots. And you do see it on this board, and it does factor into the wacky AFCE futures betting.
Vegas will definitely even the money on such a long-term bet. They’ll win similarly no matter which team eventually wins the division.

 

What the Vegas line tells *me* is there’s a lot of scared money sitting this one out. If bettors (and I’m not one) REALLY think the Bills will win the division, then the Bills are fantastic value, because ALOT of would-be Bills money will be on the sidelines, and the line will continue to skew in Buffalo’s favor. Becuz “The Patriots”.

Edited by Ecmic82
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Mr. WEO Hall of Famer

Mr. WEO

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3 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Mr. Weo .. a little weaker means "by a small amount". He was a good FB, if you disagree with that, well that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but if as many believe he was a strong blocker and now they will have a lesser blocker .. well then they are a little weaker.

 

As for their cordless phone I suppose they may be weaker if they have been using it to listen in to other team's phone calls (they are crafty).  

 

 

 

It's a tiny point to make a thread about, I thought.  FB is a vanishing position.  NE was 17th in rushing with him blocking.

 

Seems like  an insignificant loss.

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Billl Veteran

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4 hours ago, Ecmic82 said:

 

as for Vegas, I believe there is a ton of flawed regressive analysis when it comes to the Patriots. And you do see it on this board, and it does factor into the wacky AFCE futures betting.
Vegas will definitely even the money on such a long-term bet. They’ll win similarly no matter which team eventually wins the division

This is one of the biggest myths about gambling.  People think Vegas sets the line based on something other than what they believe will happen in order to get even money on both sides.  That is patently false.  The line absolutely gets set based on what Vegas thinks will happen.  Now Vegas would love it if they could get even money on both sides.  The lines may move very slightly in order to even things up a bit, but Vegas can’t get away with trying to middle the public at the expense of offering a line they don’t believe in.  The reason is simple.  Professional gamblers exist.  
 

Let’s say that Vegas thinks the Bills have a 60% chance of winning but the public drinks the New England Kool Ade, so Vegas would have to make NE the favorite in order to balance the action.  The professional gamblers would HAMMER Buffalo +175 at the last minute.  Millions of dollars would come in on Buffalo, and suddenly 75% of the action would be on the Bills at +175.  Vegas would lose its ass if that was their strategy, and Vegas didn’t become Vegas by losing.

 

That being the case, I can assure you that the sharpest minds in the industry think the Bills have roughly a 1 in 3 chance of winning the division.  They think the Chiefs and Ravens are nearly locks to make the playoffs.  The expectation is that New England wins the East with Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, and Tennessee also making the postseason.  Cleveland is next in line if someone slips up.  I feel like Buffalo should be the third best team in the AFC, but if there’s a gun to my head I’m following Vegas and rolling with NE.

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stuvian Veteran

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On 4/27/2020 at 4:11 PM, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Their new kicker has a tattoo on his arm representing a right wing militia.  He's been told to obiiterate or cover it.  Yes, things are slipping in beantown. 

 

https://deadspin.com/justin-rohrwassers-ignorance-about-3-percenters-isnt-be-1843089092

 

this story and it's white nationalist implications aren't going away anytime soon

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Mr. WEO Hall of Famer

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2 hours ago, stuvian said:

 

https://deadspin.com/justin-rohrwassers-ignorance-about-3-percenters-isnt-be-1843089092

 

this story and it's white nationalist implications aren't going away anytime soon

 

His explanation is a total lie ("I thought it stood for a military-support symbol at the time" ).  He's essentially a walking illustrated recruitment poster for this group.

 

 

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