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BuffaloBills1998

I don’t get the hate that Josh Allen gets around here.

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11 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Well if I’m Dallas I’m gonna do my due diligence to try to trade up in the draft for a QB since they are rumored to anyways. And next year you have an even better QB class in next years draft. I’d say keep Prescott for the year on the tag, see how it plays out if once again he misses the playoffs then you have your answer on whether to pay him 45 mill year or not and if Prescott doesn’t let up and still thinks he’s worth 45 to 50 mill year and if you’re a position to draft high for a quarterback then you go get that quarterback in the draft presumably Lawrence tag Prescott and look for a trade partner for Dak which I’m sure you can find one and let someone else overpay for Dak while you can get your QB of the future in either this years or next years draft. Also you have Winston who also threw for 5,000 yards and could be just as effective in that offense as Dak is
 

I get it’s a lot of money.  But what are the chances you get someone who passes for 5,000 yards and 30 tds?  
 

it’s weird.  Because I bet if we put a poll up, the majority of fans would pay Allen big money right now.  Yet, people are hesitate to pay Dak.  

58 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Depends on your definition of hate.  Their is hate in the literal sense of the world, and then there is hate in the sense that  numerous posters here that have nothing good to say about Allen as the player (not person) in conjunction with your criticism.  In other words, they never have anything good to say about what he may do well or where he is improving.  They're like heat-seeking missiles that only show up to CONSTANTLY remind everyone that he is the 24th ranked QB in QBR, but you never have anything positive to contribute about the kid.  They're are quite a few posters on this forum who constantly show up in these type threads and on game day to bash the kid.  When he screws up in the game, they're all over his a**, but when he is kicking butt it's crickets.  So I understand yours and others frustration with people who like Allen a lot who are more inclined to dismiss his faults a little to easily.  They're are many of us who are frustrated with those who constantly deride and rail on all his flaws but dismiss his intangibles, leadership, and what he does well. That's the non-literal sense of hate.

Good post and I agree with a lot of it.  But I watch other teams.  Bills fans have such a terrible concept of good qb play, with good reason.  200 yards passing is like a miracle for us.  If your nfl qb is averaging less than 200 yards passing and completing under 60% of his passes, it’s below average qb play.  Plain and simple.

 

i definitely see why people can get excited.  He has a great attitude, physical skills, and wants to be great.  My problem is his track record hasn’t really shown a lot of consistent greatness.  There are flashes and quarters/ halves.  But it’s never a whole game (except Miami, his numbers are built on Dolphin Blood).

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

There are some here, just a few, who want to see him fail so they can brag about being right at the time Allen was drafted.  We all know that.


There are few things I hate to see more than this.  The garbage argument that the people who question Allen are doing so because they’re bad people.  That they’d rather be able to say “I told you so” rather than see their team win and that there couldn’t possibly be any rational reason why they’d question him.  That’s just lazy and juvenile - and it says a lot about the people who make that argument. 

 

I absolutely didn’t want Allen in the draft and he still shows the traits of why that was.  I can appreciate that he’s the Bills QB and I’d love to be wrong about him.  He’s already hit the top end of the kind of QB that I thought he would be, but I can still (happily) acknowledge that he can still improve (and I hope he does).

 

But is there anyone that thinks that Allen has consistently played as well as we need the starting Bills QB to play?   I sure hope not.  While there is certainly a wide range of opinions about his odds of becoming that level of player, who here is openly rooting for him to fail?  Trolls aside, I think that we’re at about 0% on that one.

Edited by BarleyNY
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On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2020 at 4:02 AM, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I get it he’s not perfect, but neither was Kemp, or Ferguson or even Kelly for that matter. First it’s finally we have a franchise QB now all of a sudden it’s let’s go get Watson and let Allen go so we don’t have to pay him 30 million. Like some of you guys need to make up your minds. Either your with Allen or your not. Again while Bills mafia is the best fan base in the NFL, we are also the most spoiled. Appreciate what we have and root for the guy to succeed. Things could be worse, we could still have Tyrod( I can’t throw the football) Taylor or Nathan( I cant stop throwing to the other team) Peterman. Or how about EJ Manuel or Kyle Orton or even better Jeff Tuel or Thad Lewis. I can’t imagine if Kelly’s first year in Buffalo happened in today’s game, there would probably be a million threads about running him out of town and demanding that we draft someone else. I understand being critical and even being concerned, but some of you guys need to stop being negative and back off a bit and watch and see how it all unfolds. Be patient as the kids still young and is only going into his third year in the NFL. I don’t see Cleveland or New Jersey fans coming down on their QBS as much as I see here. And in my opinion Allen is way better than Darnold and Mayfield. 

I think the haters are in the minority.  We have a few "internet Rambos" that like to positon themselves as NFL experts that know more than anyone else.

 

Most of us realize that Josh was a developmental pick and it is enjoyable to see him show progress each year.  Only time will tell, but he has brought an excitement and energy to the team we have not seen in a long time.

 

There will always be hand wringers and naysayers.  We can't let them spoil our fun.

 

Go Josh!  Go Bills!!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:


There are few things I hate to see more than this.  The garbage argument that the people who question Allen are doing so because they’re bad people.  That they’d rather be able to say “I told you so” rather than see their team win and that there couldn’t possibly be any rational reason why they’d question him.  That’s just lazy and juvenile - and it says a lot about the people who make that argument. 

 

I absolutely didn’t want Allen in the draft and he still shows the traits of why that was.  I can appreciate that he’s the Bills QB and I’d love to be wrong about him.  He’s already hit the top end of the kind of QB that I thought he would be, but I can still (happily) acknowledge that he can still improve (and I hope he does).

 

But is there anyone that thinks that Allen has consistently played as well as we need the starting Bills QB to play?   I sure hope not.  While there is certainly a wide range of opinions about his odds of becoming that level of player, who here is openly rooting for him to fail?  Trolls aside, I think that we’re at about 0% on that one.

Well, I also wanted Rosen and an now happy we have Allen.  And if you care to read any of my previous posts about Allen I have said repeatedly he improved last year but still has a ways to go.  Like most young QBs.  This coming year if we have it should tell a lot.

 

And none of that means a hill of beans to the topic from the OP.  It has nothing to do with questioning Allen; I do above as do you.  But there are a few people here who want Allen to fail.  We all know that, we all can pick them out.  Are they trolls?  Maybe.  Do they exist?  Certainly.  There is nothing lazy not nor juvenile about acknowledging reality.

Edited by oldmanfan

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I get it’s a lot of money.  But what are the chances you get someone who passes for 5,000 yards and 30 tds?  
 

it’s weird.  Because I bet if we put a poll up, the majority of fans would pay Allen big money right now.  Yet, people are hesitate to pay Dak.  

 

Quote

Good post and I agree with a lot of it.  But I watch other teams.  Bills fans have such a terrible concept of good qb play, with good reason.  200 yards passing is like a miracle for us.  If your nfl qb is averaging less than 200 yards passing and completing under 60% of his passes, it’s below average qb play.  Plain and simple.

 

i definitely see why people can get excited.  He has a great attitude, physical skills, and wants to be great.  My problem is his track record hasn’t really shown a lot of consistent greatness.  There are flashes and quarters/ halves.  But it’s never a whole game (except Miami, his numbers are built on Dolphin Blood).

 

I think this is "the hate" that people refer to. The entire country is debating if Dak is worth the contract and pontificating whether Dallas should move on or if it is fair value. But question whether you think Josh is currently either worth a similar contract or will hit that level of production, and all hell breaks loose. 

 

It is not hating, it is literally the entire point of an internet message board. Question away. 

 

EDIT: Second quote- I totally agree with. I really like Josh Allen. I love him as a person, as an athlete, and as the leader of this team. I dislike Josh Allen the passer. He makes some wildly impressive throws at times. I would rather him be more consistent and efficient than get better at more WOW throws in order for me to be all in on him being the messiah. 

Edited by Mango
I left stuff out because I am an idiot sandwich.
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Posted (edited)

How some people perceive any critique on here about Allen:
 

tenor.gif?itemid=15799521

 

How we see ourselves

 

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Edited by BigBillsFan
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18 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

No they don’t, I’m sorry to say but Dak is replaceable. He’s not worth what he wants especially when the offense he’s in is a power run first offense. I’m sorry stats don’t mean jack if your not winning football games which is what happened last year. He put up nice stats but failed to get his team to the playoffs, paying Dak the money he wants could set that franchise back a number of years and while he’s cheap, Jerry Jones knows this and isn’t giving into Dak’s contract demands

Dak has given them 4 years of top 10 QB play while getting paid a mid round draft pick rookie contract.  He has given them EVERY chance to build a great team around him, and they haven’t.  This isn’t a Dak problem.  You put Dak on the Bills tomorrow, and Buffalo is a runaway favorite in the AFCE.

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3 hours ago, Mango said:

EDIT: Second quote- I totally agree with. I really like Josh Allen. I love him as a person, as an athlete, and as the leader of this team. I dislike Josh Allen the passer. He makes some wildly impressive throws at times. I would rather him be more consistent and efficient than get better at more WOW throws in order for me to be all in on him being the messiah. 

In my view it's more than "just" the QB. Some players like Dan Marino can go to a team and change their entire offensive philosophy. The Dolphins previous to Marino were a dominate running team and suddenly went to a pure passing team while forgetting what won them super bowls. 

 

Anyway, the point here is that there is more to building a top offense and developing a young QB than throwing him to the wolves, into the fire. Which is what exactly happened to Allen his first season. Bad offensive line, bad coaching, no real QB coach, no veteran QB on the roster for a lot of his rookie season. That coaching staff thought that Nathan Peterman would be the better starter to open the season. Then once the Bills OC saw that their new QB could run like the wind he decided to put in some run plays. Never mind that the reason the QB was running so much and so often was because the O line were mostly turnstiles. 

 

Since the Bills have retained the same OC who thought that Peterman should start that 2018 season. The same guy who has never fielded a passing offense better than 22nd. How can anyone expect that young, inexperienced QB to put up 300 yard passing games? I also think this upcoming year is more of a year to prove it for Daboll more so than Allen as it generally takes four years to develop a QB. (Per the late great Bill Walsh)

 

Want to know how bad of an OC Daboll is?  All they need to do is watch that 2019 Ravens game in which the Bills coaching staff had extra time to prepare for that Baltimore defense which didn't have any dominant pass rushers so they blitzed more than 50% of their defensive plays. The Bills offensive answer for that pass rush was to attempt to throw deep a few times and when the Bills didn't complete any deep passes the Ravens stepped up their blitzing to 65%. Brianiac Daboll went on to have Allen attempt 39 passes in that game vs 22 rushes and this with Singletary averaging 5.2 yards per rush...the Bills had no answer to stop the Ravens blitz when clearly running the ball more would have taken pressure off of Allen and stopped their continuous blitzing. That game could have been won by Buffalo.

 

No excuses for anyone this season as the Bills have a top of the league receiver corps, a better line along with a solid run game. I can see 300 yard passing games in 2020 for Buffalo. Provided they actually have a season. 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/4/2020 at 5:06 AM, thebandit27 said:

Again I will ask: does anyone see any evidence to support the idea that Allen will continue to improve and elevate his game to the next level?

 

Now, the converse: does anyone see any evidence to support the idea that Allen will NOT continue to improve and elevate his game to the next level?

 

Evidence for improvement is there in tons.  The kid has made large leaps in his abilities in short windows continuously.  There is literally no reason to not believe he will continue to get better at this stage.  

  • Stepped off the Wyoming field for the last time.
  • Works with Palmer and makes huge strides and wows at the combine.
  • Comes into the NFL labeled the least ready to play and raw, yet was the starter by the 2nd half of the first game.  (And both McD and Beane said going into 3rd preseason game, the plan was to start him until our OL nearly got the kid killed).
  • Has some big wow moments and also lots of struggles before getting hurt against Houston.
  • Comes back week 10 and looks like a completely different QB and ends the season strong.
  • Comes into 2nd season and greatly improves in a number of key areas but struggles heavily with the long ball and turnovers.
  • After some tough lessons in the first NE game, goes on to be 2nd only to Lamar over rest of seasons in TD scored and nearly eliminates all turnovers.
  • Ends the season connecting on a much improved on the long ball than earlier in the season.
  • Tied over the last 2 seasons in 4th QTR comebacks despite missing or not finishing 6 games.

This kid has taken large leaps in the offseason, preseason, and in season both years since stepping off the Wyoming field for the last time.  

 

If anyone looks at this kid and says he's peaked or cant get better...well...they probably shouldn't be evaluating players anyway.  Does not "guarantee" improvement, it just means there is a mountain of evidence to suggest he will continue to improve and literally zero evidence to suggest he won't.  Every aspect of his game has improved since entering the NFL and in significant amounts.

Edited by Alphadawg7
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5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Well, I also wanted Rosen and an now happy we have Allen.  And if you care to read any of my previous posts about Allen I have said repeatedly he improved last year but still has a ways to go.  Like most young QBs.  This coming year if we have it should tell a lot.

 

And none of that means a hill of beans to the topic from the OP.  It has nothing to do with questioning Allen; I do above as do you.  But there are a few people here who want Allen to fail.  We all know that, we all can pick them out.  Are they trolls?  Maybe.  Do they exist?  Certainly.  There is nothing lazy not nor juvenile about acknowledging reality.

If there’s someone in this thread (or any other) rooting for Allen to fail, then by all means call them out by name.  Making snarky accusations aimed at no one in particular is always going to come off poorly.  You’re not the only one that has done it, but the same thing seems to get said anytime Allen gets any criticism - and it is rarely (if ever) aimed at anyone specifically.  I’d just like to see the posters making those comments man up and name names rather than go the whiny, passive aggressive route.  I’ll leave it at that.

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1 hour ago, Billl said:

Dak has given them 4 years of top 10 QB play while getting paid a mid round draft pick rookie contract.  He has given them EVERY chance to build a great team around him, and they haven’t.  This isn’t a Dak problem.  You put Dak on the Bills tomorrow, and Buffalo is a runaway favorite in the AFCE.


Bills are already the favorite in the AFCE with Allen at QB. 

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On 4/4/2020 at 5:02 AM, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I get it he’s not perfect, but neither was Kemp, or Ferguson or even Kelly for that matter. First it’s finally we have a franchise QB now all of a sudden it’s let’s go get Watson and let Allen go so we don’t have to pay him 30 million. Like some of you guys need to make up your minds. Either your with Allen or your not.

I've made up my mind; I'm WITH Allen. But he needs to perform like an upper echelon QB to be treated as one. He'll gain respect both locally and nationally if/when he takes another stride as a passer. As far as Josh Allen hate, I see it EVERYWHERE nationally, but almost never among Bills fans.

 

One thing that irks me a bit is when we compare JA to the other members of the 2018 QB class. Being the best of the class will mean nothing if the class ends up being a dud.

 

Josh showed steady improvement from year 1 to year 2. No doubt about it. But he's got to take another big step in 2020 to get the kind of uniform, unconditional praise you're seeking.

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Ironic to be talking so much about Cousins and Prescott considering how the Bills beat both their teams, on the road, on a CBS game with Nance and Romo doing the broadcast.  Josh made wow plays and lead them to upset wins.  Prescott and Cousins racked up bigger passing stats but did little to keep their teams in the game.

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1 hour ago, Motor26 said:


Bills are already the favorite in the AFCE with Allen at QB. 

I think they will win it, but Vegas has NE as the favorite.

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5 hours ago, Billl said:

Dak has given them 4 years of top 10 QB play while getting paid a mid round draft pick rookie contract.  He has given them EVERY chance to build a great team around him, and they haven’t.  This isn’t a Dak problem.  You put Dak on the Bills tomorrow, and Buffalo is a runaway favorite in the AFCE.


Im not sure how much more support Dak could have in Dallas:

 

Hes played with four all pro Olineman (Smith, Frederick, Martin, and Collins)


Wide Receivers (Dez Bryant, Amari Cooper, Terrance Williams, Michael Gallup, Cole Beasley, Randall Cobb)

 

Hall of Fame Tight End (Witten)

 

All Pro HB (Elliott) 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

If there’s someone in this thread (or any other) rooting for Allen to fail, then by all means call them out by name.  Making snarky accusations aimed at no one in particular is always going to come off poorly.  You’re not the only one that has done it, but the same thing seems to get said anytime Allen gets any criticism - and it is rarely (if ever) aimed at anyone specifically.  I’d just like to see the posters making those comments man up and name names rather than go the whiny, passive aggressive route.  I’ll leave it at that.

 

So would I.

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23 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Well if I’m Dallas I’m gonna do my due diligence to try to trade up in the draft for a QB since they are rumored to anyways. And next year you have an even better QB class in next years draft. I’d say keep Prescott for the year on the tag, see how it plays out if once again he misses the playoffs then you have your answer on whether to pay him 45 mill year or not and if Prescott doesn’t let up and still thinks he’s worth 45 to 50 mill year and if you’re a position to draft high for a quarterback then you go get that quarterback in the draft presumably Lawrence tag Prescott and look for a trade partner for Dak which I’m sure you can find one and let someone else overpay for Dak while you can get your QB of the future in either this years or next years draft. Also you have Winston who also threw for 5,000 yards and could be just as effective in that offense as Dak is
 


This is all so insane. You say dump Dak but suggest replacing him with Winston? Lol okay 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said:


Im not sure how much more support Dak could have in Dallas:

 

Hes played with four all pro Olineman (Smith, Frederick, Martin, and Collins)


Wide Receivers (Dez Bryant, Amari Cooper, Terrance Williams, Michael Gallup, Cole Beasley, Randall Cobb)

 

Hall of Fame Tight End (Witten)

 

All Pro HB (Elliott) 

 

 

I don't think the receivers were as great in reality as they look on paper. Dez was basically done by the time Dak's 2nd year rolled around, Williams was not very good, they started his 3rd year with Beasley as his number 1 guy. Now they did go big to get him Cooper and that definitely helped but I would say that was the first time he properly had top end wide receiver talent.

 

The biggest problem in Dallas in my honest opinion was on the sidelines and not on the field. That roster was stacked last year, and Dak played darn well. But the Head Coach hugely underachieved and was fired and the coordinators didn't impress me either (Kellen Moore has some promise but made some real rookie errors in 2019). As I have said before... I don't love Mike McCarthy and yet I expect him to be a considerable improvement. 

Edited by GunnerBill
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On 4/4/2020 at 6:31 AM, Don Otreply said:

It’s some of the Jr GMs here, they like to pretend that their “football IQ” is something to behold, some of them are knowledgeable enough, but are so far down the road of fantasy/madden type crap that they no longer appear to enjoy/like real football, ya just gotta ignore them when they get on their soap box.
 

Go Bills!!!

It cuts both ways. 

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On 4/4/2020 at 7:02 AM, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I get it he’s not perfect, but neither was Kemp, or Ferguson or even Kelly for that matter. First it’s finally we have a franchise QB now all of a sudden it’s let’s go get Watson and let Allen go so we don’t have to pay him 30 million. Like some of you guys need to make up your minds. Either your with Allen or your not. Again while Bills mafia is the best fan base in the NFL, we are also the most spoiled. Appreciate what we have and root for the guy to succeed. Things could be worse, we could still have Tyrod( I can’t throw the football) Taylor or Nathan( I cant stop throwing to the other team) Peterman. Or how about EJ Manuel or Kyle Orton or even better Jeff Tuel or Thad Lewis. I can’t imagine if Kelly’s first year in Buffalo happened in today’s game, there would probably be a million threads about running him out of town and demanding that we draft someone else. I understand being critical and even being concerned, but some of you guys need to stop being negative and back off a bit and watch and see how it all unfolds. Be patient as the kids still young and is only going into his third year in the NFL. I don’t see Cleveland or New Jersey fans coming down on their QBS as much as I see here. And in my opinion Allen is way better than Darnold and Mayfield. 

Your thread title made me laugh.


What forum are you spending time at?  You think Josh Allen gets a lot of hate here?!

 

I would suggest he gets a lot of contrived, irrational, love and support and here.

 

 

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