DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Nanker said: So Cam was released? What charges was he being held for? Smiling and dancing... arrogantly 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 20 hours ago, inaugural balls said: Dalton is better. Period. ??? - It'd be nice if people actually looked at data before making these claims. Dalton's best season in terms of AV (average value) was 14, which would have qualified for Newton's 6th best season. He brings so much to the table with his run game and ability to score on running plays, and I feel like some fans simply resent having to factor that into the evaluation of a QB's play (which is funny because of, you know, Josh Allen). Christ, someone in this thread actually said that Carson Palmer had a better 2015 season than Newton. I mean, jeez: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601240car.htm. The dislike for Newton among some folks on this board cripples their ability to fairly evaluate him. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaltAn00.htm 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: ??? - It'd be nice if people actually looked at data before making these claims. Dalton's best season in terms of AV (average value) was 14, which would have qualified for Newton's 6th best season. He brings so much to the table with his run game and ability to score on running plays, and I feel like some fans simply resent having to factor that into the evaluation of a QB's play (which is funny because of, you know, Josh Allen). Christ, someone in this thread actually said that Carson Palmer had a better 2015 season than Newton. I mean, jeez: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601240car.htm. The dislike for Newton among some folks on this board cripples their ability to fairly evaluate him. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaltAn00.htm Ok - but I'm looking forward. Dalton will be better. Data? Newton is better because of past performance? I'd trust Dalton more moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Smiling and dancing... arrogantly Don’t forgot his post game outfits too!!! they are pretty awful but the stuff people hold against Cam is hilarious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: ??? - It'd be nice if people actually looked at data before making these claims. Dalton's best season in terms of AV (average value) was 14, which would have qualified for Newton's 6th best season. He brings so much to the table with his run game and ability to score on running plays, and I feel like some fans simply resent having to factor that into the evaluation of a QB's play (which is funny because of, you know, Josh Allen). Christ, someone in this thread actually said that Carson Palmer had a better 2015 season than Newton. I mean, jeez: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601240car.htm. The dislike for Newton among some folks on this board cripples their ability to fairly evaluate him. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaltAn00.htm Exactly. No idea how anyone could watch the NFL over the last 8 years and think Dalton has EVER ONCE been better than Cam (even at Cam's worst). AJ Green has made Dalton's career, because when in doubt, chuck it up to AJ. In 2015, Cam lead the Panthers to a 15-1 record, passed for almost 4000yds and 35 TDs (with another 10TDs on the ground), with Ted Ginn and Jericho Cotchery as his top WRs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, inaugural balls said: Ok - but I'm looking forward. Dalton will be better. Data? Newton is better because of past performance? I'd trust Dalton more moving forward. I’m someone who feels Dalton has gotten a bad rap. He’s had a solid career. But if healthy, Newton is a top 10 qb and has never had close to a receiver like Green. Carolina did a terrible job surrounding him with quality receivers until DJ Moore. 28 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: I like Josh but there’s clearly still questions about him. Not saying Newton should be brought in right now, but if he lingers on the market, is humbled, and in the right frame of mind, it’d be negligent for Beane not to kick the tires. If Josh struggles or gets injured, the season is effectively over. Personally, I don’t think you should even stop looking for QBs until you for sure have one. So i would try to get as many good qbs as you can. Qbs like Newton never appear on waivers unless injuries happen so it could be smart to grab him. at the same point, it could be a disaster if Allen struggles. But you need to be better than Matt Barkley. 4 hours ago, prissythecat said: +1 Thats why he was never a good QB. Great athlete sure. But thats not whats important for being a QB in the long run. You’re describing Allen except he’s been a worse passer than Newton. So is he just a great athlete and never going to be a good qb? You know Newton, the bad passer who broke Peyton Manning’s rookie passing records. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I’m someone who feels Dalton has gotten a bad rap. He’s had a solid career. But if healthy, Newton is a top 10 qb and has never had close to a receiver like Green. Carolina did a terrible job surrounding him with quality receivers until DJ Moore. Agree on Dalton. And yes, Cam has been terrific when healthy. He's taken a pounding and, as a result, has fallen off. If he can't play "his" game then he's played his best ball. I couldn't care less what the data says. Edited March 25, 2020 by inaugural balls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Just now, inaugural balls said: Agree on Dalton. And yes, Cam has been terrific when healthy. He's taken a pounding and, as a result, has fallen off. If he can't play "his" game then he's played his best ball. I could care less what the data says. He was hitting 67% of his passes (best of his career) and a MVP candidate halfway through the season 2 years ago. He was running less and becoming a better passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Exactly. No idea how anyone could watch the NFL over the last 8 years and think Dalton has EVER ONCE been better than Cam (even at Cam's worst). AJ Green has made Dalton's career, because when in doubt, chuck it up to AJ. In 2015, Cam lead the Panthers to a 15-1 record, passed for almost 4000yds and 35 TDs (with another 10TDs on the ground), with Ted Ginn and Jericho Cotchery as his top WRs. Cam had been better. Look forward. Your second line seems a little oversimplified, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 16 minutes ago, inaugural balls said: Cam had been better. Look forward. Your second line seems a little oversimplified, however. Cam's health is a serious concern. No doubt. But an 80% Cam is still better than anything Dalton can bring. In general. That doesnt mean there arent certain fits which would be better for Dalton than Cam, I'll admit that much. For example, I think Dalton fits better than Cam in New England. But LA or Denver would almost certainly do better with Cam than Dalton. Really anywhere but NE, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: Cam's health is a serious concern. No doubt. But an 80% Cam is still better than anything Dalton can bring. In general. That doesnt mean there arent certain fits which would be better for Dalton than Cam, I'll admit that much. For example, I think Dalton fits better than Cam in New England. But LA or Denver would almost certainly do better with Cam than Dalton. Really anywhere but NE, imo. Just curious why don’t you think Cam would fit in NE? Also, Denver is basically the same situation as us. If he’s 100%, he’s better than Lock but I can’t see them doing that because it would be like bringing him here behind Allen. LAC makes the most Sense because he would start and they could draft a young guy too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Cam has been an E-P offensive player for the majority of his career and had his best seasons playing for Mike Shula in the scheme. So in terms of his schematic fit, New England makes a lot of sense. Shula is now in Denver as the QB coach and Shurmur is the OC..he’s a west coast guy. So the fit does make sense in NE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 18 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 26 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Just curious why don’t you think Cam would fit in NE? Also, Denver is basically the same situation as us. If he’s 100%, he’s better than Lock but I can’t see them doing that because it would be like bringing him here behind Allen. LAC makes the most Sense because he would start and they could draft a young guy too. Pretty much what I posted to you last night. I just dont see him and BB gelling. Or being the type of leader BB wants in a QB. A main part of the BB/Brady relationship, and what basically made the "patriot way" possible, was that Belichick was able to light into Brady in team meetings and film rooms. And Brady took it like a good soldier. And that set the tone that if the GOAT got held accountable like that, everyone else should shut up and accept it as well. Not sure how Cam would hold up under that type of scrutiny and being called out in front of his team mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 hour ago, inaugural balls said: Ok - but I'm looking forward. Dalton will be better. Data? Newton is better because of past performance? I'd trust Dalton more moving forward. I don't dislike Dalton and think he might pleasantly surprise people in a new environment. As for Newton, it really depends on his health. He was having the best season of his career in 2018 before the shoulder injury. I have no idea how much he has healed from that. If he has healed enough to the point where he can make all of the throws, he's still probably going to be a good player. 5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Pretty much what I posted to you last night. I just dont see him and BB gelling. Or being the type of leader BB wants in a QB. A main part of the BB/Brady relationship, and what basically made the "patriot way" possible, was that Belichick was able to light into Brady in team meetings and film rooms. And Brady took it like a good soldier. And that set the tone that if the GOAT got held accountable like that, everyone else should shut up and accept it as well. Not sure how Cam would hold up under that type of scrutiny and being called out in front of his team mates. As I've said elsewhere, I strongly believe that BB was bored with the Brady situation and wants a new challenge. He has nothing left to prove and his legacy is fully cemented as the greatest coach ever. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to run with a new QB type. The bottom line: Belichick is in a different situation than practically any coach in league history. By way of comparison, look at Shula and Tom Landry, who were looking over their shoulders to the end. BB is better than both, and knows that he can do whatever the hell he wants at this point with no risk of losing his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: As I've said elsewhere, I strongly believe that BB was bored with the Brady situation and wants a new challenge. He has nothing left to prove and his legacy is fully cemented as the greatest coach ever. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to run with a new QB type. The bottom line: Belichick is in a different situation than practically any coach in league history. By way of comparison, look at Shula and Tom Landry, who were looking over their shoulders to the end. BB is better than both, and knows that he can do whatever the hell he wants at this point with no risk of losing his job. Good point. And while he doesnt risk losing his job, he does risk tarnishing his legacy or his "aura". And with that, maybe bringing in Newton is the perfect idea, because if it doesnt work out, he knows CAM will take most of the blame on that and BB will keep his reputation. The narrative will be "Cam is broken physically and done" and/or "Cam couldnt conform his personality to the Patriot Way", it wouldnt be "Belichick failed Cam as a coach". So maybe it is the smart move for BB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 2 hours ago, dave mcbride said: I don't dislike Dalton and think he might pleasantly surprise people in a new environment. As for Newton, it really depends on his health. He was having the best season of his career in 2018 before the shoulder injury. I have no idea how much he has healed from that. If he has healed enough to the point where he can make all of the throws, he's still probably going to be a good player. As I've said elsewhere, I strongly believe that BB was bored with the Brady situation and wants a new challenge. He has nothing left to prove and his legacy is fully cemented as the greatest coach ever. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to run with a new QB type. The bottom line: Belichick is in a different situation than practically any coach in league history. By way of comparison, look at Shula and Tom Landry, who were looking over their shoulders to the end. BB is better than both, and knows that he can do whatever the hell he wants at this point with no risk of losing his job. Regarding BB, no doubt, likely the best coach of all time. We know his history prior to TB and with TB. He needs to show what he can do without TB. Bares watching. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 7 hours ago, inaugural balls said: Regarding BB, no doubt, likely the best coach of all time. We know his history prior to TB and with TB. He needs to show what he can do without TB. Bares watching. Didn’t Belichick go 11-5 the season Brady was out with knee injury . His QB was none other than Matt Aka Meh Cassel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, prissythecat said: Didn’t Belichick go 11-5 the season Brady was out with knee injury . His QB was none other than Matt Aka Meh Cassel Are you suggesting the winning with Cassel was sustainable over subsequent seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 16 hours ago, dave mcbride said: ??? - It'd be nice if people actually looked at data before making these claims. Dalton's best season in terms of AV (average value) was 14, which would have qualified for Newton's 6th best season. He brings so much to the table with his run game and ability to score on running plays, and I feel like some fans simply resent having to factor that into the evaluation of a QB's play (which is funny because of, you know, Josh Allen). Christ, someone in this thread actually said that Carson Palmer had a better 2015 season than Newton. I mean, jeez: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601240car.htm. The dislike for Newton among some folks on this board cripples their ability to fairly evaluate him. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaltAn00.htm Not at all. Newton is a complete jerk, but a great athlete. Now, that's fair, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan692 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Newtons good... but not for buffalo . Hopefully not for NE either.... but i could see cam taking a honey pot deal to team up with BB and win SB. Pray not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 8 hours ago, inaugural balls said: Are you suggesting the winning with Cassel was sustainable over subsequent seasons? nope I didn’t suggest that . I merely was pointing out that New England didn’t exactly collapse with no Brady. Though I believe KC made the playoffs the following year when they had Cassel. So probably was not a quite a one off . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 On 3/24/2020 at 10:10 AM, BuffaloBills1998 said: They can’t afford him plus BB is not dealing with his attitude or ego 100 bucks says they roll with Tyrod since he’s being paid and they roll with a rookie in the draft. Plus newton turned down a trade to the chargers I say he’s signing with Miami. They reportedly said they want to go into the season with 4 QBS on their roster. Assuming they don’t trade Rosen you can do a lot to afford guys without drastic changes in the roster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBills1998 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 41 minutes ago, NoSaint said: you can do a lot to afford guys without drastic changes in the roster Not true for BBs case. Brady’s departure alone put them over 13.5 million in dead money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 1 hour ago, prissythecat said: nope I didn’t suggest that . I merely was pointing out that New England didn’t exactly collapse with no Brady. Though I believe KC made the playoffs the following year when they had Cassel. So probably was not a quite a one off . The 2008 Patriots had a far more talented roster than the 2020 Pats. Welker, Randy Moss, and a young Ben Watson. Kevin Faulk, Lawrence Maroney, and Sammy Morris at RB. Defense had Wilfork, Bruschi, Seymor, Mayo, Merriweather, and Vrabel. And even Junior Seau as a backup. The current roster looks nothing like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 10 hours ago, prissythecat said: Didn’t Belichick go 11-5 the season Brady was out with knee injury . His QB was none other than Matt Aka Meh Cassel With a roster that went 18-1 the previous season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Not being able to do a physical is going to be tough for him right now. His shoulder issue in 2018 was still showing up in 2019 before the ankle ended last season prematurely. If he's sapped of arm strength, and isn't able to run the ball as much - he really isn't the same QB that he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 2 hours ago, prissythecat said: nope I didn’t suggest that . I merely was pointing out that New England didn’t exactly collapse with no Brady. Though I believe KC made the playoffs the following year when they had Cassel. So probably was not a quite a one off . Fair point. ? time will tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 5 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said: Not true for BBs case. Brady’s departure alone put them over 13.5 million in dead money meh. If they thought it was securing their qb of the future- to create space I’d say they would be willing to look into restructuring a few guys and giving a qb a deal that’s signing bonus heavy. it’s a commitment to a few guys to be there a bit but not thaaaaat difficult. Just have to bet on the right people. 4 hours ago, dneveu said: Not being able to do a physical is going to be tough for him right now. His shoulder issue in 2018 was still showing up in 2019 before the ankle ended last season prematurely. If he's sapped of arm strength, and isn't able to run the ball as much - he really isn't the same QB that he was. that’s the larger issue here. A short term deal has little flexibility in structure. If they trust him on a 4-5 year option they can do a lot more to flow money how they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamkrgr Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 I wouldn't be least bit surprised if Cam has a better year than Teddy next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 On 3/24/2020 at 11:06 AM, Bangarang said: Probably going to NE On 3/24/2020 at 11:59 AM, Mat68 said: This is what Ive been thinking. Its either Cam or tank. On 3/24/2020 at 12:00 PM, purple haze said: He coached Lawrence Taylor. Cam Newton is nothing like L.T. off the field. And L.T. had a serious ego too. Most players do, let alone the top players in the game. Belicheck's cup-o-tea is winning. Cam could wind up there. On 3/24/2020 at 12:12 PM, Mike in Horseheads said: Patriots sign him yet? On 3/24/2020 at 12:16 PM, billsherd said: Going to NE, On 3/24/2020 at 12:58 PM, Kirby Jackson said: Absolutely it is. The Patriots make a lot of sense now and apparently McDaniels wants him. On 3/24/2020 at 1:30 PM, Albany,n.y. said: It's easy for NE to work around their cap problems. They can either sign him to a long term contract & spread the bonus out, or sign him to a 2 year deal at a low 2020 salary with incentives that include a big roster bonus in March 2021 where if he hits the incentives his contract for 2021, including the March roster bonus, is all guaranteed. Then he can either play on the contract or renegotiate. If Cam is willing to bet on himself, like Sherman did in SF, a deal with NE can be reached. On 3/24/2020 at 5:02 PM, Scott7975 said: Seriously? I don't think Cam is that great, but he is going to be a starter somewhere. There is zero chance he is signing with Buffalo to ride the bench. Likely he will end up on the Pats unless they are trying to lose every game. On 3/25/2020 at 12:05 PM, MrEpsYtown said: Cam has been an E-P offensive player for the majority of his career and had his best seasons playing for Mike Shula in the scheme. So in terms of his schematic fit, New England makes a lot of sense. Shula is now in Denver as the QB coach and Shurmur is the OC..he’s a west coast guy. So the fit does make sense in NE. Winner, winner! Chicken dinner! These posters all called Cam to the Pats in March! Congrats, dudes (and dudettes if there are any of that persuasion)! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 On 3/26/2020 at 2:21 PM, Iamkrgr said: I wouldn't be least bit surprised if Cam has a better year than Teddy next season. I could see that. I don’t think the Panthers will win more than 5 games. But they are starting over and Cam wasn’t part of their rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 On 3/24/2020 at 8:27 PM, C.Biscuit97 said: That’s what we need to worry about with Allen. No matter how big you are, those nfl hits caught up. And Newton was completing 67% of his passes before he hurt his shoulder 2 years ago and a MVP candidate. Healthy, he’s a top 10 qb. Of course, health is the question. Good point. Signed Hayneswortgh. Antonio Brown. Randy Moss. Chad Johnson. Corey Dillion. Gronk. Aaron Hernandez. Coke head Ryan Mallett. Chandler Jones. excellent point. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChevyVanMiller Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 In hindsight, do you wish the Bills had signed Cam to a similar basement dollar incentive laden deal like the *Pats did if for no other reason than to keep him off of the roster of the team that has eaten your lunch for the past two decades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 7 hours ago, SoTier said: Winner, winner! Chicken dinner! These posters all called Cam to the Pats in March! Congrats, dudes (and dudettes if there are any of that persuasion)! With pretty much every FA that hits the market, there are always a number of posters that say "Going to NE" without fail. This was no different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 1 minute ago, ChevyVanMiller said: In hindsight, do you wish the Bills had signed Cam to a similar basement dollar incentive laden deal like the *Pats did if for no other reason than to keep him off of the roster of the team that has eaten your lunch for the past two decades? Tbh I don’t think they could have, so can’t answer that. You need it to work both ways when you sign someone and Cam would not have seen the Bills - or any team with a young QB to which they are invested - as a good opportunity to compete for a starting job and therefore maximize his opportunity for his next contract. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 This thread title made me think some crazy BB Cam stuff happened. I’m disappointed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: This thread title made me think some crazy BB Cam stuff happened. I’m disappointed Sorry to get your hopes up, but I thought that those posters who were right back in March ought to be acknowledged. If you read back through the thread, the posters picking Cam to go to NE weren't all that numerous. There were probably more who thought that Cam would never end up there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 If I understand, this thread was brought up to chest-thump anyone who guessed Cam's landing spot correctly. I agree with @Over 29 years of fanhood that the word "Today" in the title is misleading. The call-out purpose could have been accomplished by creating a link to the thread and posting it in the current thread. To create a link on a computer, click on the time and date stamp in the upper left corner and copy/paste the URL On a mobile device, it varies but if you know it can be done, you can usually figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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