Would you guys want to re-sign Dawkins at the 15 mill a year price tag?

[DCbillsfan]

49 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I think this is what it comes down to.  Is Dawkins worth $15M/year?  In my opinion, not right now.  I think he's slightly above average and certainly not in the top 10 in league LTs.

He's been improving, but still whiffs and gets beat badly; at the least, he wasn't the worst problem on the line.  So until someone better comes along, Dawkins will get paid and be a bit overpaid.

This.  Plus the Bills don't have much depth at Tackle.  If Dawkins were to leave, the Bills would have a huge hole to fill as far as experience and talent.

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

Eh.  I’ve maintained no, but I also haven’t broken down any of his film this year.  I think we’re going to resign him because he’s been playing his cards right/seems like a great guy.  
 

Just seems to me he gets beat on plays we have to have

Yeah Era I think we should break down the film....I am seeing something different.

 

(respect your opinion on this though)

[Malazan]

Yes. I'd actually say that $15 is a bargain given the rising salaries in the NFL and the LT position compared against the quality of his play. 

[NewEra]

41 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Yeah Era I think we should break down the film....I am seeing something different.

 

(respect your opinion on this though)

You shouldn’t lol....I haven’t watched film.  Prior to the season, having watched previous film, that was my position.  Many here say that he’s improved and is worth the money, they’re probably right.  Based on my weekly game watching, he seemed like just another decent LT.  I guess you pay decent LT 15 mill a year?  I think I’d rather spend 15 mill on a true difference maker and draft a LT in rd 2 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

You shouldn’t lol....I haven’t watched film.  Prior to the season, having watched previous film, that was my position.  Many here say that he’s improved and is worth the money, they’re probably right.  Based on my weekly game watching, he seemed like just another decent LT.  I guess you pay decent LT 15 mill a year?  I think I’d rather spend 15 mill on a true difference maker and draft a LT in rd 2 

I think one of the things is he came into camp in better shape this year also I am sure having Spain next to him didnt hurt

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yes. LTs get paid a lot of money, it’s just reality.

 

....GOOD and RISING LT's.....he qualifies IMO......

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Id say yes. Good player but not clutch at all.

 

I remember in the NE and Houston playoff game the last offensive snaps he tripped while getting into his stance basically letting his man go free at Allen. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by TheyCallMeAndy
Typo

[Utah John]

Yes, get him signed for 5 years at a fair price for a pretty good LT.  

 

That doesn't hurt the Bills too much if they decide to upgrade eventually.  Dawkins will always have trade value if it comes to that, and a solid, non-exorbitant contract would increase his trade value.

 

 

[NewEra]

22 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I think one of the things is he came into camp in better shape this year also I am sure having Spain next to him didnt hurt

That’s one of the things I’m scared about.  I thought he was pretty bad next to Ducasse.  I’ve never played OL so I dunno what it’s like playing next to a bum, but I’m sure that it affected him.  

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

That’s one of the things I’m scared about.  I thought he was pretty bad next to Ducasse.  I’ve never played OL so I dunno what it’s like playing next to a bum, but I’m sure that it affected him.  

I would not worry about that.....its going to be either Spain or Ford both of which light years better then Decausse in my opinion

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I would not worry about that.....its going to be either Spain or Ford both of which light years better then Decausse in my opinion

Yeah, I just hope he continues to improve.  I just don’t see 15 mill a year. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I honestly don't think he's a top LT. Not even top 10 rn

 

He takes good amount of penalties and gets beat more than you want. I think he's good , not great

 

THIS. I was reading the first few comments and was like, "Doesn't anyone remember the crucial pressures he gave up in situations where we needed blocking the most?"

 

I love what he brings to the team chemistry wise, but like Jordan Phillips he's just not worth a big deal.

Edited February 25, 2020 by EasternOHBillsFan

[SoTier]

Dawkins isn't the best LT in the NFL but he's better than a lot of them, and a team needs at least adequate play at OT.  The market rate is what it is, and the Bills don't have anybody else as good as he is, so pay him. 

 

You can't build a real Super Bowl contender with a roster featuring a handful of top players backed up by never-weres and never-will-bes. 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I honestly don't think he's a top LT. Not even top 10 rn

 

He takes good amount of penalties and gets beat more than you want. I think he's good , not great

 

I don't think he is top 10 either. I am not sure he will ever be solidly top 10 but I also don't think he will ever be worse than about 18th best. That gives you the platform you need. I think he had his most consistent run down the stretch. I am paying him. If halfway through his contract you end up in position to draft a top end LT then you do it and slide Dawkins into guard where I still maintain he'd be an all-pro. But left tackles better than Dawkins do not hit the FA market often if at all. So if you are going to let him walk you have to go back to the draft and find an upgrade. The Bills will pay him and it will be top 5 left tackle money. But two years after that he will be in the 8th-12th range money wise which is about right (given that there is always bound to be a guy or two in that top dozen who is still playing on a rookie deal). 

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I think this is what it comes down to.  Is Dawkins worth $15M/year?  In my opinion, not right now.  I think he's slightly above average and certainly not in the top 10 in league LTs.

He's been improving, but still whiffs and gets beat badly; at the least, he wasn't the worst problem on the line.  So until someone better comes along, Dawkins will get paid and be a bit overpaid.

Who do you think the 10-15th LT are and do you think they don’t sometimes whiff?

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think he is top 10 either. I am not sure he will ever be solidly top 10 but I also don't think he will ever be worse than about 18th best. That gives you the platform you need. I think he had his most consistent run down the stretch. I am paying him. If halfway through his contract you end up in position to draft a top end LT then you do it and slide Dawkins into guard where I still maintain he'd be an all-pro. But left tackles better than Dawkins do not hit the FA market often if at all. So if you are going to let him walk you have to go back to the draft and find an upgrade. The Bills will pay him and it will be top 5 left tackle money. But two years after that he will be in the 8th-12th range money wise which is about right (given that there is always bound to be a guy or two in that top dozen who is still playing on a rookie deal). 

Everybody always tosses the word all pro around when kicking tackles inside . Oh he'd be an all pro

 

I don't think he is on a Zach Martin , Quentin Nelson level at all. even at guard. All Pro is best 1-2 in the world

Edited February 26, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I think he’s near the top 10. I can’t think of 10 guys I’d rather have than Dawkins.

 

That is a slightly different question because some of the guys I would still say are "better" are at the tail end of their career and might join the legendary Andrew Whitworth in the retirement line - Jason Peters, Anthony Costanzo and Joe Staley spring to mind. 

 

Of the remainder I'd take before Dawkins..... Tyron Smith, Ronnie Stanley, David Bhaktiari, Jake Matthews, Terron Armstead, Taylor Lewan are all still under 30 and clearly better. I think Dawkins is in that next group with the likes of Laremy Tunsil, Eric Fisher and Taylor Decker. That is another level again ahead of the Grant Bolles, Riley Reiffs and DJ Humphries of the world - but Humphries just signed a 3 year, $45m extension which does tell you the market the Bills will have to be in with Dion. 

 

There is no excuse not to pay him. Refusing to pay a guy who is reliable and solid at left tackle because he isn't elite makes no sense to me. If an elite guy falls in your lap in a year or two you just slide Dion inside. There is a bunch of teams who don't even have a guy in that DJ Humphries group and if the Bills move on from Dion without good cause that is where they well could end up. 

 

18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Everybody always tosses the word all pro around when kicking tackles inside . Oh he'd be an all pro

 

I don't think he is on a Zach Martin , Quentin Nelson level at all. even at guard. All Pro is best 1-2 in the world

 

I think Dion would be a top 5 guard. Not Zach Martin or Quentin Nelson but I do think he could be Marshal Yanda and he made a couple of all pro lists in his career. And as I said to you in another thread.... I don't subscribe to the "kick any old tackle inside and they will be good." I think that logic is flawed. I just think Dion has the skillset to be dominant inside. Always have done. And there were a couple of series his rookie year when Cordy Glenn was in the lineup and Richie came out hobbled where Dion slid into that guard spot and absolutely blew people up. Small sample size but I believe he could be that inside. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by GunnerBill

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is a slightly different question because some of the guys I would still say are "better" are at the tail end of their career and might join the legendary Andrew Whitworth in the retirement line - Jason Peters, Anthony Costanzo and Joe Staley spring to mind. 

 

Of the remainder I'd take before Dawkins..... Tyron Smith, Ronnie Stanley, David Bhaktiari, Jake Matthews, Terron Armstead, Taylor Lewan are all still under 30 and clearly better. I think Dawkins is in that next group with the likes of Laremy Tunsil, Eric Fisher and Taylor Decker. That is another level again ahead of the Grant Bolles, Riley Reiffs and DJ Humphries of the world - but Humphries just signed a 3 year, $45m extension which does tell you the market the Bills will have to be in with Dion. 

 

There is no excuse not to pay him. Refusing to pay a guy who is reliable and solid at left tackle because he isn't elite makes no sense to me. If an elite guy falls in your lap in a year or two you just slide Dion inside. There is a bunch of teams who don't even have a guy in that DJ Humphries group and if the Bills move on from Dion without good cause that is where they well could end up. 

 

 

I think Dion would be a top 5 guard. Not Zach Martin or Quentin Nelson but I do think he could be Marshal Yanda and he made a couple of all pro lists in his career. 

Yes he has and yanda is fantastic. A real hard worker who has improved a bunch over the years

 

Coming out Dawkins was definitely a better prospect but Yandas development... Key word... They let him develop .. was rapid

 

Dawkins could be that type of guy if he put in lots of work. Top 10 G with some potential for accolades

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yes he has and yanda is fantastic. A real hard worker who has improved a bunch over the years

 

Coming out Dawkins was definitely a better prospect but Yandas development... Key word... They let him develop .. was rapid

 

Dawkins could be that type of guy if he put in lots of work. Top 10 G with some potential for accolades

 

Yanda has been better than top 10 and I think Dawkins would be too. But for now it is academic because unless something strange happens he is staying at tackle for the foreseeable. 

[Happy]

26 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Who do you think the 10-15th LT are and do you think they don’t sometimes whiff?

 

are they paid $15M/year?  Probably not.  I can't go through all of them, but I'll give a few examples of better LTs - Tyron Smith of Dallas and Eric Fisher.  Smith is at $13.5M/year and Fisher is at $14.5M/year.  I would put both ahead of Dawkins, though they make in the ball park to slightly less than what Dawkins would make at $15M.  Everyone whiffs, just Dawkins misses blocks and commits penalties at some inopportune times.

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yanda has been better than top 10 and I think Dawkins would be too. But for now it is academic because unless something strange happens he is staying at tackle for the foreseeable. 

For sure but again I'm not willing to call him Marshall yanda level quite yet a two-time All-Pro.. and it is a moot point because he doesn't play guard

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

are they paid $15M/year?  Probably not.  I can't go through all of them, but I'll give a few examples of better LTs - Tyron Smith of Dallas and Eric Fisher.  Smith is at $13.5M/year and Fisher is at $14.5M/year.  I would put both ahead of Dawkins, though they make in the ball park to slightly less than what Dawkins would make at $15M.  Everyone whiffs, just Dawkins misses blocks and commits penalties at some inopportune times.

Doesnt the wage scale every year though.....even though say Smith makes X the next year the next one will make more

[Happy]

39 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Doesnt the wage scale every year though.....even though say Smith makes X the next year the next one will make more

 

Yes, that is true, salary will change (some players more than others) with each year.

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is a slightly different question because some of the guys I would still say are "better" are at the tail end of their career and might join the legendary Andrew Whitworth in the retirement line - Jason Peters, Anthony Costanzo and Joe Staley spring to mind. 

 

Of the remainder I'd take before Dawkins..... Tyron Smith, Ronnie Stanley, David Bhaktiari, Jake Matthews, Terron Armstead, Taylor Lewan are all still under 30 and clearly better. I think Dawkins is in that next group with the likes of Laremy Tunsil, Eric Fisher and Taylor Decker. That is another level again ahead of the Grant Bolles, Riley Reiffs and DJ Humphries of the world - but Humphries just signed a 3 year, $45m extension which does tell you the market the Bills will have to be in with Dion. 

 

There is no excuse not to pay him. Refusing to pay a guy who is reliable and solid at left tackle because he isn't elite makes no sense to me. If an elite guy falls in your lap in a year or two you just slide Dion inside. There is a bunch of teams who don't even have a guy in that DJ Humphries group and if the Bills move on from Dion without good cause that is where they well could end up. 

 

 

I think Dion would be a top 5 guard. Not Zach Martin or Quentin Nelson but I do think he could be Marshal Yanda and he made a couple of all pro lists in his career. And as I said to you in another thread.... I don't subscribe to the "kick any old tackle inside and they will be good." I think that logic is flawed. I just think Dion has the skillset to be dominant inside. Always have done. And there were a couple of series his rookie year when Cordy Glenn was in the lineup and Richie came out hobbled where Dion slid into that guard spot and absolutely blew people up. Small sample size but I believe he could be that inside. 

Like I said...hard to name 10 guys you’d rather have than Dawkins. 

[Buffalo716]

17 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Like I said...hard to name 10 guys you’d rather have than Dawkins. 

Taylor lewan , Jake Matthews , Joe Staley , Trent Williams , terron armstead, tyrone Smith, David Bakhtiari, Eric Fisher , Cordy Glenn WAS better(while here)(Don't count), Andrew Whitworth , Jason Peters, Alejandro villanueva, laremy Tunsil, Ronnie Stanley

 

Not counting age or anything. 1 game or 1 season these guys are all more steady besides Glenn who I mentioned because WHILE HERE , was steadier than Dawkins

Edited February 26, 2020 by Buffalo716

[KD in CA]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Taylor lewan , Jake Matthews , Joe Staley , Trent Williams , terron armstead, tyrone Smith, David Bakhtiari, Eric Fisher , Cordy Glenn WAS better(while here)(Don't count), Andrew Whitworth , Jason Peters, Alejandro villanueva, laremy Tunsil, Ronnie Stanley

 

Not counting age or anything. 1 game or 1 season these guys are all more steady besides Glenn who I mentioned because WHILE HERE , was steadier than Dawkins

What kind of ridiculous logic is ‘not counting age or anything?

 

To suggest you’d rather have guys like Peters or Glenn is laughable.

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

What kind of ridiculous logic is ‘not counting age or anything?

 

To suggest you’d rather have guys like Peters or Glenn is laughable.

Well did you even read? I did not say Glenn is better . I said he was a better LT for US than Dawkins has been. That's the only reason I mentioned him

 

And yes Peters is still better

 

This isn't about who will be better in 5 years... Who's better today

Edited February 26, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Taylor lewan , Jake Matthews , Joe Staley , Trent Williams , terron armstead, tyrone Smith, David Bakhtiari, Eric Fisher , Cordy Glenn WAS better(while here)(Don't count), Andrew Whitworth , Jason Peters, Alejandro villanueva, laremy Tunsil, Ronnie Stanley

 

Not counting age or anything. 1 game or 1 season these guys are all more steady besides Glenn who I mentioned because WHILE HERE , was steadier than Dawkins

Tunsil??? He’s JAG. Fisher same imo. 

 

Glenn is a joke. Whitworth is 50, Villanueva ain’t that great anymore, and Peters is probably older than both of them. 
 

Dawkins has a VERY good year imo. He’s the kind of guy you don’t mess around with. 

 

 

[Buffalo716]

19 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Tunsil??? He’s JAG. Fisher same imo. 

 

Glenn is a joke. Whitworth is 50, Villanueva ain’t that great anymore, and Peters is probably older than both of them. 
 

Dawkins has a VERY good year imo. He’s the kind of guy you don’t mess around with. 

 

 

If you read I said Glenn was a better LT while HERE not anymore... Tunsil last year was better pass blocker and Villanueva and Whitworth are maybe even but he's had NOWHERE near their careers.. Peters is still better . I named all those guys off my head

 

Dawkins needs to improve he wasnt a top 10 LT last year. He commits too many penalties still and gets beat at the worse time

 

I hope he improves to that level, he isn't there yet. Nobody has him as a top 10 LT

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GoBills808]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Of you read I said Glenn was a better LT while HERE not anymore... Tunsil last year was better same with Whitworth and Villanueva has had a much better career and was still solid last year... Peters is still better

 

Dawkins needs to improve he wasnt a top 12 LT last year. He commits too many penalties still and gets beat at the worse time

 

 

I disagree about Tunsil, I think he is dead average. 
 

Tunsil, Whitworth, Peters, Lewan all had more penalties than Dawkins last year.

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I disagree about Tunsil, I think he is dead average. 
 

Tunsil, Whitworth, Peters, Lewan all had more penalties than Dawkins last year.

How many sacks did those guys allow? And pressures?

 

Tunsil did have alot of penalties but he was also very efficient in pass protection

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/texanswire.usatoday.com/2019/11/23/lt-laremy-tunsil-worth-texans/amp/

 

Peters still a better pass blocker , and Lewan didn't have more penalties and had less sacks allowed

 

I Like Dawkins skillset but he does allow pressure at the worst times. I hope he improves alot and he earns a new contract

 

I named those guys off my head to show that Dawkins needs to improve to have those kinda careers. Tunsil and Dawkins are probably close tho. 16 penalties is bad

Edited February 26, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

How many sacks did those guys allow? And pressures?

 

Tunsil did have alot of penalties but he was also very efficient in pass protection

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/texanswire.usatoday.com/2019/11/23/lt-laremy-tunsil-worth-texans/amp/

 

Peters still a better pass blocker , and Lewan didn't have more penalties and had less sacks allowed

 

I Like Dawkins skillset but he does allow pressure at the worst times. I hope he improves alot and he earns a new contract

 

I named those guys off my head to show that Dawkins needs to improve to have those kinda careers. Tunsil and Dawkins are probably close tho. 16 penalties is bad

For me he doesn’t need to improve much to earn a deal. I think he has really great flexibility in the run game and while he isn’t exactly the long/strong prototype he can maul when he gets in close and his feet and hips are some of the best imo. He finds leverage in a lot of situations...I think he has good instincts that can’t be taught.

[JoPoy88]

20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I disagree about Tunsil, I think he is dead average. 
 

Tunsil, Whitworth, Peters, Lewan all had more penalties than Dawkins last year.

and Lewan is the current highest paid tackle correct? 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

For me he doesn’t need to improve much to earn a deal. I think he has really great flexibility in the run game and while he isn’t exactly the long/strong prototype he can maul when he gets in close and his feet and hips are some of the best imo. He finds leverage in a lot of situations...I think he has good instincts that can’t be taught.

I do think he is great Mauler in close and is a great athlete. I like his skill set, he certainly is the best tackle on our team and can pull as well

 

I just don't think he's a top 5-10 guy rn. Probably right outside it but ascending. We need to re sign him or we will have another hole

 

I just wish he got his pass blocking technique down a bit more

Just now, JoPoy88 said:

and Lewan is the current highest paid tackle correct? 

Idk but Lewan had less penalties and sacks allowed and pressures than Dawkins

[JoPoy88]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

I do think he is great Mauler in close and is a great athlete. I like his skill set, he certainly is the best tackle on our team and can pull as well

 

I just don't think he's a top 5-10 guy rn. Probably right outside it but ascending. We need to re sign him or we will have another hole

 

I just wish he got his pass blocking technique down a bit more

Idk but Lewan had less penalties and sacks allowed and pressures than Dawkins

well if Lewan is that good (headcase that he is) then I’d expect that. Hey Dawkins is a wildcard. I love him but he did have a very down year in year 2. I attribute that to the trash that was playing alongside him but i get some have reservations.

[GoBills808]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

I do think he is great Mauler in close and is a great athlete. I like his skill set, he certainly is the best tackle on our team and can pull as well

 

I just don't think he's a top 5-10 guy rn. Probably right outside it but ascending. We need to re sign him or we will have another hole

 

I just wish he got his pass blocking technique down a bit more

It’s cause he’s not real long. He likes to let his man in close and then stick him which can get him in trouble. 

5 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

and Lewan is the current highest paid tackle correct? 

I thought it was Solder but not sure

[Buffalo716]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

It’s cause he’s not real long. He likes to let his man in close and then stick him which can get him in trouble. 

I know why he struggles he doesn't have the punch of a 6'6 tackle .. he can't hit you before you hit him and as you said needs to play in close. That's why measurements are important

 

But I digress he is important to our team and he needs to have Josh's back if we are going somewhere

[Peace Frog]

If we had an actual stud at LT, I would say move him to LG.  However, if he continues to be our starter at LT then pay the man.

[Doc Brown]

No, but I'd like Pegula too.

[DrDawkinstein]

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

It’s cause he’s not real long. He likes to let his man in close and then stick him which can get him in trouble. 

I thought it was Solder but not sure

 

Looks like it is Solder.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/left-tackle/

 

While a $15M/year contract would move Dawkins into the #6 spot. That is just for now. I'd bet within a year or two he'd barely be in the top 10. So it all balances out over time.