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MAJBobby

NFL.com David Carr lists Buffalo as a Potential Destination for WR Amari Cooper

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21 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

The Bills are one receiver away from having one of the top offenses in the league

 

 

:lol:

 

Clarification: MAJBobby is quoting David Carr here.  The part that so indicated got edited out

Edited by Hapless Bills Fan
Clarifying quote
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2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So by analogy to 2014, Beckham was gone by Pick #12. 

Are you saying we should be trying to trade into the top 10 or 12 picks to get a top WR?

 

Again with the 2014 analogy, Jarvis Landry was drafted late in the 2nd round and Davante Adams at 53 in the 2nd.

 

So I want to both encourage discussion and make sure that shades 2014 does not color our views on this draft. Just because it is a deep WR class does not mean that, what we are missing on our offense overall will be found in any round and that all of the WRs are ranked closely in overall skill. The top 3 guys are yes, much better than the next 3-4 guys and the group below them and so on. Beane frequently has talked about this very concept and we all know he will move to get a player who is sliding down the board they have a high value on, especially if it is a position of need.

 

On Knox:

Beane: We were looking at, there was [the] same thing, there was starting to be a run on tight ends and you’re kind of holding your breath and you start looking. Our next pick was 112, I believe, so we started going. He fit the value where we picked him. There’s enough teams that could still use tight ends and we just didn’t see any way that he would fall. The next one that we had ranked was starting to be significantly lower and we just felt that this was the time to jump. That was still another position that we wanted to address in this draft.

 

Beane: I was honestly exhausted after the first [trade up] because we were trying so hard to get Cody [Ford]. We were patient with Devin [Singletary] and then there was the run on tight ends right after we picked Devin. It’s Murphy’s Law, we saw some running backs there we liked and we saw some tight ends that we liked; and it was like ‘ok, it looks like maybe there’s a little more depth still at tight end,’ so we go with Devin, and then the tight ends start going and you start pressing, going ‘alright, how long do we want to wait before we address it. And that felt like the right time to make the move.’

 

Beane: There’s two things, the value on the board, and secondly, we thought it was a position we did need. And again, let’s say he got picked and we’re at four now, I didn’t want to be reaching in a lower round to grab him. It made sense to me, for us to trade up there because we had that value on Dawson [Knox].

 

On Edmunds:

He was sticking out on our board, and it’s a need,” explained Beane. “If a guy is sticking out on our board, and it’s really not a need, you might not do it. But with the hole we had there, and where he was on our board, it was a no-brainer. Even if we could have got to 14, we would have done it.”

 

We can't compare the 2014 draft and team to the 2020 draft and team, different cap situations, different holes and at different points in their trajectory. There is no need to doa full rundown on 2014, but in a nutshell (Sammy, Evans & OBJ were the top tier, blue chip WR guys) at 9 we would have had a choice of one or even 2 of them. The FO chose to trade up when other areas of the team could have been focused on. As we have discussed ad nauseam over the years.

 

(most of the following notes and comments came from Nolan Nawrocki & Walter football)

 

Landry & Adams well there are reasons for them not being in the top tier. Landry ran a 4.77 40, had the 2nd worst vertical at the combine, and had issues with separation against better DBs in college, he only started in 12 games, he also was listed as 6'1" by LSU but measured 5'11" and had a lean frame. His lack of size and speed would cause issues with better DBs in the NFL. What he did excel at was the route tree and making contested catches (reason for many of these was due to his lack of separation). All of these question marks caused him to drop and his pure athletic talent cannot match the top 3. But great route running and strong hands allowed him to carve a role and be successful, Keenan Allen is the same and Mike Wallace is a guy who faded out due to not being able to develop a route tree.

 

Adams was a third year sophmore entering the draft, average to below average acceleration from a dead stop, did not play against elite competition.

When Adams is asked to run more complex routes, he's often sloppy. He frequently rounds off his routes and doesn't consistently display the sharp cuts that can create separation. The sloppiness of his play raises some concerns that he's willing to play down to the level of his competition, because on occasion he did show the necessary explosiveness to win against NFL-caliber defensive backs.  He ran only a portion of the route tree at Fresno State, running a high percentage of go routes, comebacks and screens—routes which require relatively little timing and explosiveness. 

 

Both of these types of players can take time to develop and are good choices for RDs2 & 3, but are by no means the blue chippers who could come in and contribute immediately to start a run on our current team. The further you go down into the talent, the more questions there are and the more time it will take to develop these guys. How long are you willing to wait for that development and hope it comes? the lack of a blue chip pass catchers on our team is the primary are we need to fix this year.

 

Beane end of the season presser:

 

Hopefully, we’ll just be able to add some pieces here and there to help us take the next step...

 

“Sometimes Josh, he wants it so bad that sometimes he tries to do too much. If we’re not moving the ball at times, I think that’s probably one of the things he has to work on, is still playing within himself. I think he tried to put all 45 other players on his back and do things that he shouldn’t do . . . He’s a fiery competitor, and I would much rather have those errors than check-down-charlie, being timid, all those types of things...

 

At the end of the day, it’s maturity, and it’s me doing a better job of increasing the talent around him, too, so that he can trust, have more players that [he] can trust and make plays for him, where he’s just got to get the ball out, hand it off, do whatever, and not feel like he has to do too much.”

 

For Edmunds in 2018 we gave up Pick #22 in RD1 and Pick #65 in RD3 to move up to pick #16 and Pick #154 in RD5; with this kind of value Beane will move for a top 3 WR. Ithink this makes sense around pick 14-16, need to jump in front of Philly & the Raiders. Easy trade to make especially with our extra 4ths and 5ths we can easily get back into RD3 and even still package them to move up in RD2 or grab another second rounder.

 

In 2017 to move from pick #10 we got #27 in RD1, plus #91 RD3 and 2018#1. Would Beane pull the trigger for Jeudy or Lamb and give up something similar? He might and this is tougher to predict.

 

Just remember we at least had talks on both AB & OBJ last year = big game WR fishing. OBJ was a #1 a 3rd and Peppers for a huge contract and a Diva. Personally I would rather make a trade like that for one of the top in this draft. I'm not addressing AB at all..

 

Edit: @Virgiljust adding you because this more fully explains my trade up for Ruggs and why (if I was free at work during the selection) I would have gone to 13 for Lamb....

Edited by Reed83HOF

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11 hours ago, Azucho98 said:

Cooper seems to quit when things get tough... so he doesn't fit here.

 


add him and a few pieces and it won’t be that tough. I’d be glad for him to be our Sammy in a super bowl run

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12 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

 

Funny you should mention this... Due to a conversation in another thread, I am (not for the first time in the past couple years, mind you) reading through the 2018 draft night thread... The amount of Allen haters is still surprising to me. 

 

Especially when you figure he has had nothing to do with 4th quarter collapses in the past two years!

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I think... well I guess I should say hope, that the bengals fail or don’t decide to sign AJ Green and then consequently sign Amari to an egregious deal.

 

they need someone for joe burrow to throw to and develop with.

 

then we can swipe in and sign AJ. I can dream. 

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15 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Mc/Beane has won me over. We’re close because of their shrewdness. If they think he’s the piece, he’ll be wearing Scarlet, Royal & White.

Why don't you just say Red, White and Blue? God bless America!

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2 hours ago, OutOfBubbleGum said:

Why don't you just say Red, White and Blue? God bless America!

Why do you think?

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18 hours ago, PIZ said:


What’s that saying? “Money talks...Bull$&);: walks”. Beane has looked at signing big $ guys before, but hasn’t landed any......yet. 

 

Mitch Morse.  Highest paid center in the league at the time (big $$), and at 6'6" 300, quite literally a big guy.

'

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10 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

So I want to both encourage discussion and make sure that shades 2014 does not color our views on this draft. Just because it is a deep WR class does not mean that, what we are missing on our offense overall will be found in any round and that all of the WRs are ranked closely in overall skill. The top 3 guys are yes, much better than the next 3-4 guys and the group below them and so on. Beane frequently has talked about this very concept and we all know he will move to get a player who is sliding down the board they have a high value on, especially if it is a position of need.

(....edit...)

For Edmunds in 2018 we gave up Pick #22 in RD1 and Pick #65 in RD3 to move up to pick #16 and Pick #154 in RD5; with this kind of value Beane will move for a top 3 WR. Ithink this makes sense around pick 14-16, need to jump in front of Philly & the Raiders. Easy trade to make especially with our extra 4ths and 5ths we can easily get back into RD3 and even still package them to move up in RD2 or grab another second rounder.

 

In 2017 to move from pick #10 we got #27 in RD1, plus #91 RD3 and 2018#1. Would Beane pull the trigger for Jeudy or Lamb and give up something similar? He might and this is tougher to predict.

 

Just remember we at least had talks on both AB & OBJ last year = big game WR fishing. OBJ was a #1 a 3rd and Peppers for a huge contract and a Diva. Personally I would rather make a trade like that for one of the top in this draft. I'm not addressing AB at all..

 

Edit: @Virgiljust adding you because this more fully explains my trade up for Ruggs and why (if I was free at work during the selection) I would have gone to 13 for Lamb....

 

Great post, Thanks.  Sorry for trimming it.  Good point on the tiers of talent, and why talented players who work out later are not the same tier and may take longer to contribute, even if they reach the same level.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens.  Clearly Beane has a track record of being willing to make a draft move, when he feels the value is there. 

 

My sense of how he operates is that he wants to find value, but there are only a few positions on the team that he values enough to trade up in Rd 1. 

Despite what you quoted him as saying,  I think Beane's been trying to "cheap it" on offense ("Kmart - just as good as Sears but cheaper") as much as possible and only slowly backing uphill to a realization that we need a top-tier offense and he can't build that on the resource allocation he was using.  (He moved from Kmart to Kohls or Macys). I see him as still backing uphill asking "Will this do?" "Good enough now?" at every step.   He was quoted at the Senior Bowl, absent Jrs Jeudy and Lamb, as saying there are definitely some guys here who can help us.

 

So I would be surprised at a big trade-up for WR, but I have been surprised before.  We'll know more, of course, when we see what he does in FA.

 

Tech Note if you like, you can link this post in the other thread where the issue was raised.  If you haven't done so before, click on the grey time and date to produce a link direct to your post.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Great post, Thanks.  Sorry for trimming it.  Good point on the tiers of talent, and why talented players who work out later are not the same tier.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens.  Clearly Beane has a track record of being willing to make a draft move, when he feels the value is there. 

 

My sense of how he operates is that he wants to find value, but there are only a few positions on the team that he values enough to trade up in Rd 1. 

Despite what you quoted him as saying,  I think Beane's been trying to "cheap it" on offense ("Kmart - just as good as Sears but cheaper") as much as possible and only slowly backing uphill to a realization that we need a top-tier offense and he can't build that on the resource allocation he was using.  (He moved from Kmart to Kohls or Macys). I see him as still backing uphill asking "Will this do?" "Good enough now?" at every step.   He was quoted at the Senior Bowl, absent Jrs Jeudy and Lamb, as saying there are definitely some guys here who can help us.

 

So I would be surprised at a big trade-up for WR, but I have been surprised before.  We'll know more, of course, when we see what he does in FA.

 

Tech Note if you like, you can link this post in the other thread where the issue was raised.  If you haven't done so before, click on the grey time and date to produce a link direct to your post.

 

 

 

hated making it that long, but I felt providing a bit more info was worth it.

 

He also indicated during this offseason that he would look to use the later round picks to move up or trade them for future year picks because we don't have to fill out the roster like we did in the past and there is a good chance the 4th-6th rounders might not even make the team. Granted all of these scenarios will started to narrow down as we get through FA.

 

In the end, he will stay true to his board and if talent is slipping he will compare and go grab it, especially if it is at a position of need & WR will be the most likely position of biggest need heading into the draft, as is the point this thread (Cooper is not coming here - and I don't necessarily want to pay him what he will want). I love the idea of using other picks on WR as well as we only have 2 viable ones and letting them develop behind Brown & Beasley will be very important for rebuilding the depth there. I try not to get to wrapped up in the combine numbers, but they do provide some value. 

 

We desperately need someone who is a threat to score every time they have the ball, we were 29th in YAC as a team
image.thumb.png.081caa600f6188d2cab580aff747c5e4.png
 

Beasley had the most YAC on the team at 330, 44th best and grouped around players like Mixon, Goedert, Fant, Cobb & Edleman. McKenzie was 2nd and ranked #110 in YAC w/ 206 & Brown was ranked #112 w/305. This is John Ross and Amendola territory. Robert Woods was 6th in the NFL. 

 

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?lg=NFL&yr=2019&type=reg&mode=C&conf=&limit=all&sort=recyac

 

Yards/Catch we were 12th and Brown was 23rd in the league, Beasley was 2nd on the team and was 73rd in the league. We are terrible in these 2 categories 

 

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1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

hated making it that long, but I felt providing a bit more info was worth it.

 

He also indicated during this offseason that he would look to use the later round picks to move up or trade them for future year picks because we don't have to fill out the roster like we did in the past and there is a good chance the 4th-6th rounders might not even make the team. Granted all of these scenarios will started to narrow down as we get through FA.

 

In the end, he will stay true to his board and if talent is slipping he will compare and go grab it, especially if it is at a position of need & WR will be the most likely position of biggest need heading into the draft, as is the point this thread (Cooper is not coming here - and I don't necessarily want to pay him what he will want). I love the idea of using other picks on WR as well as we only have 2 viable ones and letting them develop behind Brown & Beasley will be very important for rebuilding the depth there. I try not to get to wrapped up in the combine numbers, but they do provide some value. 

 

We desperately need someone who is a threat to score every time they have the ball, we were 29th in YAC as a team
image.thumb.png.081caa600f6188d2cab580aff747c5e4.png
 

Beasley had the most YAC on the team at 330, 44th best and grouped around players like Mixon, Goedert, Fant, Cobb & Edleman. McKenzie was 2nd and ranked #110 in YAC w/ 206 & Brown was ranked #112 w/305. This is John Ross and Amendola territory. Robert Woods was 6th in the NFL. 

 

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?lg=NFL&yr=2019&type=reg&mode=C&conf=&limit=all&sort=recyac

 

Yards/Catch we were 12th and Brown was 23rd in the league, Beasley was 2nd on the team and was 73rd in the league. We are terrible in these 2 categories 

 

 

Again, good post.  So with regard to that YAC thing, many on this board blame Allen for that, saying that if he threw a more accurate/catchable ball, our WR would have better opportunity.  Your thoughts?  I feel it's true at times, but it's far from the only story on YAC.  Per advanced stats, Allen made a lot of throws into tight windows.

 

Point for:

John Brown had more YAC/R last year

2018 3.7 YAC/R, 2019 2.9 YAC/R.

 

Point against:

Cole Beasley had less

2018 3.3 YAC/R, 2019 4.9 YAC/R

 

I would suggest that means both WR were assigned somewhat different roles in the offense, Brown an expanded route tree that included more short and intermediate routes where he was asked to operate in tighter windows; Beasley an expanded route tree beyond the slot, where he also struggled more with drops on catches he was less accustomed to making (and from a guy who throws harder too, natch)

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3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Again, good post.  So with regard to that YAC thing, many on this board blame Allen for that, saying that if he threw a more accurate/catchable ball, our WR would have better opportunity.  Your thoughts?  I feel it's true at times, but it's far from the only story on YAC.  Per advanced stats, Allen made a lot of throws into tight windows.

 

Point for:

John Brown had more YAC/R last year

2018 3.7 YAC/R, 2019 2.9 YAC/R.

 

Point against:

Cole Beasley had less

2018 3.3 YAC/R, 2019 4.9 YAC/R

 

I would suggest that means both WR were assigned somewhat different roles in the offense, Brown an expanded route tree that included more short and intermediate routes where he was asked to operate in tighter windows; Beasley an expanded route tree beyond the slot, where he also struggled more with drops on catches he was less accustomed to making (and from a guy who throws harder too, natch)

Great conversation because I don't know how much this has been discussed on here and I don't disagree regarding Allen, but I do think there is a bit more to it, rarely is anything 1 direct cause.

 

Yards of Separation, Beasly was #29 in the NFL at 3.2, Knox was 65th at 2.8, Brown was 107th at 2.4. For reference #1 was 3.9. When you have a QB is to a degree inaccurate (and Allen really is not that bad) and WRs who don't get a lot of separation, you are asking for contested catches and making it harder from a YAC standpoint. They are actually pretty good from a cushion standpoint as well, Knox & Brown were near the top of the league. This does seem to indicate the answer is in the middle, we can't create great separation naturally with our WRs and Josh' inaccuracy negates the cushion that is there with the WRs, which is why a WR who can turn his speed on in a millisecond after making a contested catch is a dream for this team.

 

I'm not trying to make this a Ruggs thing, but no other players in the draft can do what he does.

 

Ruggs from the draft network:

Ability to stop on a dime on the outside leads to immediate separation on back shoulder fades or deep comebacks, which is an important counter to his primary usage.Works back across face on quick-breaking routes well and incorporates his hands with good aggressiveness. Basketball background is apparent.

 

Soft mittens. Catches naturally in stride and isn't perturbed by high-velocity balls outside of his frame. Flashes hands late and aggressively to balls that are at his full extension and quickly transitions to a runner. Able to attack balls at the highest point while elevating and has plus technique to avoid body-catching habits when working back to the football. It's just easy for him, man.

 

 A candidate for schemed touches and deep bombs due to alien speed and acceleration. Has loose hips and clean feet to change direction when he's not working at full speed; will need gather steps when he's on full throttle. Flexibility in the lower half allows for natural leverage and he has enough density to deliver hits and survive contact at a high level

 

Has true zoomies with pads on and regularly breaks the angles of his opponent's fastest defenders, which contributes to his unreal propensity for the explosive play. Instant acceleration is hugely valuable given his ability to break tackles with plus contact balance -- when he goes 0 to 100 is when he makes the most would-be tacklers look foolish. Is not uniquely elusive but has good quicks and solid vision -- is a no-nonsense runner who will take the first runway he gets

 

Locates the deep bomb quickly and will aggressively work to the football through contact. Prefers to run under passes down the field, however, and must become better at attacking deep balls as an alpha in the air, with his hips toward the line of scrimmage.

 

The cliche phrases about being a threat to score on every touch are absolutely applicable. One wrong angle or missed step by the defense can result in six points because his ability to accelerate is from another planet.

 

Ruggs from Walter football:

 

2/1/20: Ruggs had 40 catches for 746 yards and seven touchdowns in 2019. Of the tremendous group of receivers at Alabama, sources say that Ruggs is the fastest, possessing a serious ability to stretch the field. Ruggs' production was held back by Alabama spreading the ball around to its stable of talented receivers, but he is a game changer to stretch NFL defenses vertically. Ruggs suffered a concussion in the Citrus Bowl win over Michigan.

8/17/19: Ruggs (6-0, 183) goes under the radar somewhat because of Jerry Jeudy and other Alabama play-makers, but Ruggs is a dangerous receiver who produces big plays. In 2018, he totaled 46 receptions for 741 yards and 11 touchdowns. At just about any other school, Ruggs would be the No. 1 wide receiver and produce a huge stat line, especially if he played in the Big XII.

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4 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Take a flier on Devin Funchess and draft a kid. 

 

Why Devin Funchess?

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1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Why Devin Funchess?

He gives us a size WR we lack and think he'd come pretty cheap after missing most of last season so he'll want a prove it deal. 

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3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Mitch Morse.  Highest paid center in the league at the time (big $$), and at 6'6" 300, quite literally a big guy.

'

 

Where's the touché emoji?

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36 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

He gives us a size WR we lack and think he'd come pretty cheap after missing most of last season so he'll want a prove it deal. 

Funchess is terrible...

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22 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

3) BUFFALO BILLS: The Bills are one receiver away from having one of the top offenses in the league, especially after Josh Allen made the leap in Year 2. John Brown can take the top off the defense, Cole Beasley is a solid slot guy and Cooper would give Allen a playmaker who can win one-on-one situations and clear out the box for the run game.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001101262/article/eagles-bills-among-potential-landing-spots-for-amari-cooper?campaign=Twitter_atn

 

It's a hard pass from me...

 

I think Laviska will be better as a Rookie anyway...😎

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1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Funchess is terrible...

We need a guy that can move the chains and be a red zone threat and think Funchess can do that on the cheap. Also If look at the UFA landscape there aren't many good WRs out there so that's why looking for a vet/rookie combo.

1 hour ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

It's a hard pass from me...

 

I think Laviska will be better as a Rookie anyway...😎

I don't like Laviska, his college highlights look so much like Sammy Watkins and he has some injury concerns like Sammy. Unless he has a helluva combine I'm looking at other guys. Denzel Mims is high on my list but rather we wait til round 2 and grab Michael Pittman Jr. 

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On 2/5/2020 at 2:35 PM, YoloinOhio said:

I’ve mentally crossed him of the FA list since he publically stated he would not want to go to Buffalo. I would rather draft one or even two given the strength of this class than spend the $ on him. I would take one in the 1st or 2nd rd and then another later if it aligns to the Bills draft board. Already have Brown/Beasley and i like mckenzie. 

I still have hopes for Duke.  With that being said I would not cry if they got Cooper to change his mind.

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3 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

I don't like Laviska, his college highlights look so much like Sammy Watkins and he has some injury concerns like Sammy. Unless he has a helluva combine I'm looking at other guys. Denzel Mims is high on my list but rather we wait til round 2 and grab Michael Pittman Jr. 

 

Laviska is my guy this year...He reminds me much more of a quicker version of JuJu than Sammy...To me Sammy was anti-contact...Laviska is physical like JuJu...

 

The injury thing is what it is...It's up to the Docs...

 

Over the past few years my guys for the Bills have been Chris Jones over Shaq, Pat Mahomes (who I said was the #1 overall pick in that Draft...),  DK Metcalf last year, obviously I wanted JuJu and we picked Zay...I had Baker as the #1 QB in 2017, but more than anything the one guy I did not want was Josh Rosen...

 

So doubt me at your own peril...😉😎

 

 

 

 

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On 2/5/2020 at 2:03 PM, MAJBobby said:

3) BUFFALO BILLS: The Bills are one receiver away from having one of the top offenses in the league, especially after Josh Allen made the leap in Year 2. John Brown can take the top off the defense, Cole Beasley is a solid slot guy and Cooper would give Allen a playmaker who can win one-on-one situations and clear out the box for the run game.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001101262/article/eagles-bills-among-potential-landing-spots-for-amari-cooper?campaign=Twitter_atn

 

Sure but dont see Beane going after big money weapons

 

 

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On 2/6/2020 at 2:03 AM, NoSaint said:


add him and a few pieces and it won’t be that tough. I’d be glad for him to be our Sammy in a super bowl run

Cooper would want to be here as much as Samantha did.  No thanks.  Hope they stay far away.

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On 2/5/2020 at 2:03 PM, MAJBobby said:

3) BUFFALO BILLS: The Bills are one receiver away from having one of the top offenses in the league, especially after Josh Allen made the leap in Year 2. John Brown can take the top off the defense, Cole Beasley is a solid slot guy and Cooper would give Allen a playmaker who can win one-on-one situations and clear out the box for the run game.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001101262/article/eagles-bills-among-potential-landing-spots-for-amari-cooper?campaign=Twitter_atn

Regardless of how you feel about Cooper, it definitely is cool to see "experts" considering us as a free agency destination because we are "one player away".  In the past, we were never mentioned as a possible landing spot, even if we were a good fit, because we weren't considered relevant. I have confidence in Beane to weigh the options and make the right choice, but in the meantime, I will take the speculation as a compliment to the organization and the direction we are headed in.

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