The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[BillZtime]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

As usual, you are a little slow on the uptake. This was hashed out 50 pages or so back in the thread.....

 

And like every stance you have taken, you are wrong on this one as well.

Do you have this response saved cause you use it often. 
 

And no - it’s not wrong cuz if it were you and/or your ***** buddy Kris would have shared some far right link to disprove it....

 

but we will wait as you shoot blanks. 

[Q-baby!]

5 minutes ago, BillZtime said:

Trump destroyed our pandemic infrastructure  - so someone needs to be held accountable. But of course; it is everyone else’s fault:

 

 

They won’t respond to that (Jimmy’s comment), because they know it’s true and it cost lives. Dr.Trump ***** up large!!! 

[billsfan1959]

Just now, BillZtime said:

Do you have this response saved cause you use it often. 
 

And no - it’s not wrong cuz if it were you and/or your ***** buddy Kris would have shared some far right link to disprove it....

 

but we will wait as you shoot blanks. 

 

i wouldn't have to use it so often if you weren't wrong so often.

 

The rest of your post is just jibberish

[Hedge]

@Tiberius

 

The king is dead!

 

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

I think we've been pushed right as a society for so long that anyone that would normally identify as a moderate conservative (e.g. doesn't believe in Christian Sharia Law, or wild west capitalism) is probably a democrat these days.

 

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

As a populace we have, but as far as politicians are concerned, we haven't had a left of center president since Carter.

 

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Hollywood? More Deep State nonsense.
The Media? What about all the nonstop extreme-right "news"/blogs you guys get your information from? The media has no political ideology besides money. They shovel whatever they have into whatever mouths are willing. Some people want an echo-chamber, and so there's a product for that.

 

Long live the king!

[BullBuchanan]

12 minutes ago, BillZtime said:

Trump destroyed our pandemic infrastructure  - so someone needs to be held accountable. But of course; it is everyone else’s fault:

 

 

I heard that was Fake News because

 

But then I get confused because

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

This argument supposes that this isn't happening anyway. It's been happening for decades and isn't going to stop even if we allow slave labor. The solution is finding a better path forward. There's never been a shortage of work to do, even now. 

 

As for outsourcing, that's a problem separate from wages that needs its own solution.

 

How does this argument suppose that this isn't happening already?  The part you bolded was "the continual rise of automation taking away jobs?"

 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/continual?s=t

 

Quote

adjective

1. of regular or frequent recurrence; often repeated; very frequent: continual bus departures.

 

2. happening without interruption or cessation; continuous in time.

 

Of course it's been going on.  But if you raised the minimum wage to $25 as you suggested I would propose that continual process would be greatly accelerated.  If McDonalds had to suddenly pay $25 per hour, very shortly you would have touch screens for customer ordering and they'd need about 1/2 the workers they need now.   Domino's would get rid of pizza makers and use a machine (which already exists).  Meaning more people don't have jobs.

 

Why is outsourcing separate from wages?  The whole reason we have so much stuff made in China is because you can make it a HELL of a lot cheaper with people that make $2 a day.  Ask Phil Knight.  If manufacturers now have to suddenly pay everyone $25 an hour don't you think more would say screw it, and move production to China or somewhere else cheaper?

 

Raising minimum wage to $25 sounds great.  But what are the unintended consequences?  I have laid out two. I'm sure there are others.

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

oh, and
 

 

 

I knew this was coming.

[BullBuchanan]

5 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

 

Of course it's been going on.  But if you raised the minimum wage to $25 as you suggested I would propose that continual process would be greatly accelerated.  If McDonalds had to suddenly pay $25 per hour, very shortly you would have touch screens for customer ordering and they'd need about 1/2 the workers they need now.   Domino's would get rid of pizza makers and use a machine (which already exists).  Meaning more people don't have jobs.

 

Why is outsourcing separate from wages?  The whole reason we have so much stuff made in China is because you can make it a HELL of a lot cheaper with people that make $2 a day.  Ask Phil Knight.  If manufacturers now have to suddenly pay everyone $25 an hour don't you think more would say screw it, and move production to China or somewhere else cheaper?

 

Raising minimum wage to $25 sounds great.  But what are the unintended consequences?  I have laid out two. I'm sure there are others.

 

I knew this was coming.

Outsourcing is separate from wages because it's fought for by lobbyists, subsidized by kickbacks, and enabled by congress and the executive branch. Outsourcing would still be something that would happen regardless of labor costs, because it's a lot more complex than that. You can solve the automation problem without solving the outsourcing one and vice versa. They aren't tied at the hip.

[Deranged Rhino]

4 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Outsourcing is separate from wages because it's fought for by lobbyists, subsidized by kickbacks, and enabled by congress and the executive branch.

Don’t look now, but you’re describing a “conspiracy theory” involving the “deep state” you claim doesn’t exist...

 

 

[Koko78]

1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Why were we in a position to trust the globalist community and institutional structures? 

 

Why... it must be because we as a society have been pushed towards the "extreme-right", and everyone knows that right of center people have been the driving force of globalism over the past thirty years. 

 

 

.... Wait a second. That can't be right. 

 

@BullBuchanan just keeps on proving himself to be dumber than his last post. 

 

That's just what you want us to believe. Never trust a Hollywood Conservative Super-Secret FBI Police Agent (who is, of course, getting ready to mobilize with his unit as part of the Federal Reserve.)

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

Don’t look now, but you’re describing a “conspiracy theory” involving the “deep state” you claim doesn’t exist...

 

 

Where's the shadow government undermining the legislative, judicial and executive branches of government at the same time?

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

Where's the shadow government undermining the legislative, judicial and executive branches of government at the same time?

Read your own post above. Slowly. 
 

You can do it. 

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Why... it must be because we as a society have been pushed towards the "extreme-right", and everyone knows that right of center people have been the driving force of globalism over the past thirty years. 

Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump - all NeoLiberals or the economic right of the last ~75 years.

 

Sure, some have been theocratic, some have been secular. Some were highly intelligent, others not so much. Some were articulate and others unintelligible. Some were charismatic and others were dull. Some have run as populists and others were more mainstream, but at the end of the day they all adhered to the master of the market, the darling of 20th and 21rst century conservatives.

Obama ran as a populist, but when it came time for him to govern, he still gave the banks the money they asked for, the intelligence agencies the power they asked for, and the military the weapons they asked for. Just like Reagan, the Bushes, Clinton and now Trump. All it takes is mixing in a bit of religion or some safety net reforms to make someone a Republican or a Democrat these days, but under that exterior, most of them are still built on the same chassis.

 

[meazza]

17 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Read your own post above. Slowly. 
 

You can do it. 

 

Honestly speaking, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just put someone like BB on ignore?

 

My ignore list has grown faster than the COVID spread in the last weeks.  Garey Busey has managed to stay off it since he seems like a nice enough guy.

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump - all NeoLiberals or the economic right of the last ~75 years.

 

You are SO lost. 

SO misinformed. 

 

There's ZERO difference between Bush/Clinton/Obama. The only difference is a mirage. They did not push the country "right", they pushed globalism which is the antithesis of conservative's philosophy. 

 

Neo-liberal = Neocon -- same bird, different wings. Just like the establishment GOP = the establishment DNC in all but PR. 

 

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Sure, some have been theocratic, some have been secular. Some were highly intelligent, others not so much. Some were articulate and others unintelligible. Some were charismatic and others were dull. Some have run as populists and others were more mainstream, but at the end of the day they all adhered to the master of the market, the darling of 20th and 21rst century conservatives.

 

That's NOT the master they answered to. Your ignorance is on full display. 

 

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Obama ran as a populist, but when it came time for him to govern, he still gave the banks the money they asked for, the intelligence agencies the power they asked for, and the military the weapons they asked for. Just like Reagan, the Bushes, Clinton and now Trump. All it takes is mixing in a bit of religion or some safety net reforms to make someone a Republican or a Democrat these days, but under that exterior, most of them are still built on the same chassis.

 

Because Obama was full of shite. Like Bush. Like Clinton. The goal of their administrations was to weaken the country by overextending it, while propping up the globalist designs within China, the EU, and elsewhere. 

 

That's not a push towards the "right". 

 

It's a push towards the opposite.

 

 

1 minute ago, meazza said:

 

Honestly speaking, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just put someone like BB on ignore?

 

My ignore list has grown faster than the COVID spread in the last weeks.  Garey Busey has managed to stay off it since he seems like a nice enough guy.

 

 He's not. But to each their own. 

[shepherdog1960]

No one could have predicted this? https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/photos-and-video/video/2014/12/02/president-obama-speaks-fight-against-ebola

 

watch from 15:20

 

 

drive by post.  not getting immersed in this swamp again.  I'll just add that the chorus here are morons and haven't improved themselves a bit.  doc is a pseudo doc.  dc tom is an absent idiot. and the shah did die from the mistakes of an inexperienced, world famous surgeon.  Shaq was more lucky.

Edited April 9, 2020 by shepherdog1960

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

[BullBuchanan]

14 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

You are SO lost. 

SO misinformed. 

 

There's ZERO difference between Bush/Clinton/Obama. The only difference is a mirage. They did not push the country "right", they pushed globalism which is the antithesis of conservative's philosophy. 

 

Neo-liberal = Neocon -- same bird, different wings. Just like the establishment GOP = the establishment DNC in all but PR. 

 

 

That's NOT the master they answered to. Your ignorance is on full display. 

 

 

Because Obama was full of shite. Like Bush. Like Clinton. The goal of their administrations was to weaken the country by overextending it, while propping up the globalist designs within China, the EU, and elsewhere. 

 

That's not a push towards the "right". 

 

It's a push towards the opposite.

 

 

 

 He's not. But to each their own. 

If you actually understood NeoLiberalism, you'd know it's been the core GOP platform since Nixon. Democrats have often publicly tried to oppose it, but they themselves actually govern in most of the same ways. The only real difference is how they sell it, and sometimes they use lube. 

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

If you actually understood NeoLiberalism, you'd know it's been the core GOP platform since Nixon. Democrats have often publicly tried to oppose it, but they themselves actually govern in most of the same ways. The only real difference is how they sell it, and sometimes they use lube. 

 

If you actually understood the point I was making, you'd stop trying to draw a line between the GOP and DNC. 

 

They are the same. 

 

And they aren't "pushing us right". 

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

If you actually understood the point I was making, you'd stop trying to draw a line between the GOP and DNC. 

 

They are the same. 

 

And they aren't "pushing us right". 

That's exactly my point.

Democrats are not left wing. That's where all this talk in America breaks down. It's been the Center-right vs the Extreme right since at least the 60's. Anyone to the left of it gets called a communist.

[Deranged Rhino]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

That's exactly my point.

Democrats are not left wing. That's where all this talk in America breaks down. It's been the Center-right vs the Extreme right since at least the 60's. Anyone to the left of it gets called a communist.

 

You have that completely backwards. 

 

But, it's moot. 

 

So, let me ask you. If you believe that there is no discernable difference between the parties, and (as you stated earlier) believe that off shoring wasn't a natural economic development but one fostered by unelected officials in the lobbying industry (and elsewhere) controlling the government against the people's will (and the market's natural tendencies... how can you state with the same breath that the notion of a "deep state" (which is a terrible catch-all term these days) is fake? 

 

Right. you can't. You can't hold both opinions at once without being either completely hypocritical or naive. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Deranged Rhino

[reddogblitz]

4 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

I am continually amazed by people today and their lack of reverence for those who fought and died for their very rights and freedoms. Freedoms they nonchalantly toss aside at the whim of some governor or county exec.  I guess it’s no surprise when so many have been conditioned to think that America was just created by a bunch of wealthy white guys so they could have plantations and slaves. 

 

Totally.

 

You have to look no further than the "gig economy" to see how this happening in front of our very eyes. 

 

In the early 20th century people worked really hard and some died to acquire things like paid vacation, sick time, health insurance, weekends, the 40 hour work week etc.

 

Nowdays people think this is of no value and should be able to pay someone dirt wages to drive their own car totally at the mercy of the company paying only for when they have a rider and have no health insurance and work more than 40 hours a week. 

 

And people are happy to give it away because they can now do it with a cool app.

 

Sad.

57 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Outsourcing is separate from wages because it's fought for by lobbyists, subsidized by kickbacks, and enabled by congress and the executive branch. Outsourcing would still be something that would happen regardless of labor costs, because it's a lot more complex than that. You can solve the automation problem without solving the outsourcing one and vice versa. They aren't tied at the hip.

 

Who said they were?

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

You have that completely backwards. 

 

But, it's moot. 

 

So, let me ask you. If you believe that there is no discernable difference between the parties, and (as you stated earlier) believe that off shoring wasn't a natural economic development but one fostered by unelected officials in the lobbying industry (and elsewhere) controlling the government against the people's will (and the market's natural tendencies... how can you state with the same breath that the notion of a "deep state" (which is a terrible catch-all term these days) is fake? 

 

Right. you can't. You can't hold both opinions at once without being either completely hypocritical or naive. 

 

That's a false equivalency. I believe politicians are susceptible to bribes and corruption, and their election cycles are but ensure that vulnerability. They do favors for corporations and then they get kickbacks while in office and/or when they get out.

The FBI/CIA/NSA etc serve at the pleasure of the President. They aren't up for re-election, don't have to worry too much about doing favors for corporations because congress does that for them, and at any level other than the absolute top it's a guaranteed career job with great benefits and a pension. To suppose that they actively work against their presidents without cause or obvious benefit requires an Olympian level of mental gymnastics. They get to do whatever they want, with infinitely increasing funds with full support of congress and the President. What could they possibly gain?

[Deranged Rhino]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

That's a false equivalency. I believe politicians are susceptible to bribes and corruption, and their election cycles are but ensure that vulnerability. They do favors for corporations and then they get kickbacks while in office and/or when they get out.

 

Read what you wrote above -- real slow. 

 

Now, I ask you with all sincerity and honesty -- not as a gotcha, but because you're so close to seeing through your own blocks -- who holds everyone's secrets? Who has unlimited access to the most invasive and powerful tools of surveillance in the history of humankind? 

(then we'll talk about your second paragraph)

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Deranged Rhino

[BullBuchanan]

4 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

Who said they were?

You asked why they were separate so...?

[BullBuchanan]

 

Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Read what you wrote above -- real slow. 

 

Now, I ask you with all sincerity and honesty -- not as a gotcha, but because you're so close to seeing through your own blocks -- who holds everyone's secrets? Who has unlimited access to the most invasive and powerful tools of surveillance in the history of humankind? 

 

Again, you're walking around with a suspect looking for a crime and no motive. It's a symbiotic relationship. The spook doesn't exist without the government and its associated war machine, and every president pays the toll. 

[IDBillzFan]

14 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

Nowdays people think this is of no value and should be able to pay someone dirt wages to drive their own car totally at the mercy of the company paying only for when they have a rider and have no health insurance and work more than 40 hours a week. 

 

Some would argue that people get paid what they're worth.

 

Others would argue that no one makes that driver accept dirt wages to drive their own car. Some would even argue the person accepted that choice and those conditions on their own.

 

Some would argue that if you feel you have no value to the workplace that you should do what you can to better your prospects. They'd argue you could learn a good trade at the local community college for virtually free in any state in the country. They'd argue that you could even get an apprenticeship to learn a trade, to work your way up from gofer to nail guy to roofer to even starting your own construction business.

 

A simple general rule: most of the time things don't just happen to people because most of the time people let things happen to them.

[Deranged Rhino]

12 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Again, you're walking around with a suspect looking for a crime and no motive. 

 

Again, this is why I asked you to read the FISC opinion memo. It lays out indisputable evidence that this crime DID take place, routinely. 

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf

(Pg 82-84)

 

As for motive -- you're joking, right? The motive is control. Over you and me. Control = power. Power = money. Who's more powerful, Bull, honestly, a sitting US Senator or the spook who knows where every one of the the bodies buried by that senator (metaphorical or otherwise) are located? If your goal is to remain in control and in power, why be a politician when, as you astutely noted before, they have limited shelf lives due to the election cycle?

 

 

12 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

 It's a symbiotic relationship. The spook doesn't exist without the government and its associated war machine, and every president pays the toll. 

 

How so? You said it yourself, presidents come and go. Spooks remain, and cross administrations. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Deranged Rhino

[reddogblitz]

1 minute ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Some would argue that people get paid what they're worth.

 

Others would argue that no one makes that driver accept dirt wages to drive their own car. Some would even argue the person accepted that choice and those conditions on their own.

 

Some would argue that if you feel you have no value to the workplace that you should do what you can to better your prospects. They'd argue you could learn a good trade at the local community college for virtually free in any state in the country. They'd argue that you could even get an apprenticeship to learn a trade, to work your way up from gofer to nail guy to roofer to even starting your own construction business.

 

A simple general rule: most of the time things don't just happen to people because most of the time people let things happen to them.

 

I would agree with part of what you say.

 

The key to having a decent living is learning a marketable skill and staying current in it.  If you never learned one you're screwed.  And it's never too late to learn one.

 

However I also believe that things like 40 hour work week, paid holidays, paid vacation are a good thing.  They were put in place in part because happier employees (that get vacation etc) are better workers.

 

Today many in the tech industry are like the late 19th century earlier 20th century monopolies except they wear T-shirts so people think they're cool and their friend. 

 

As far as Uber/Lyft drivers choosing to do this, for sure.  But my point was how easily people give up what people in the past worked very hard to get and in cases died for.  That was what I was responding to.

[Doc]

58 minutes ago, shepherdog1960 said:

No one could have predicted this? https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/photos-and-video/video/2014/12/02/president-obama-speaks-fight-against-ebola

 

watch from 15:20

 

 

drive by post.  not getting immersed in this swamp again.  I'll just add that the chorus here are morons and haven't improved themselves a bit.  doc is a pseudo doc.  dc tom is an absent idiot. and the shah did die from the mistakes of an inexperienced, world famous surgeon.  Shaq was more lucky.

 

Keep on driving, simp.

[BullBuchanan]

16 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Some would argue that people get paid what they're worth.

 

Others would argue that no one makes that driver accept dirt wages to drive their own car. Some would even argue the person accepted that choice and those conditions on their own.

 

These two theoretical people sound an awful lot like the same person. 

[dubs]

2 hours ago, Capco said:

 

Multiple analyses show this to be true.  It started with Reagan and has been that way for some time.  It's also entirely why people like Bernie have come to the forefront, as a backlash to how far right the country has moved as a whole over the last 40 years.  The dismantling of the middle class as the source of American greatness, only to be replaced by corporate America, is central to the deregulation of the 80s.  

 

 

This is where the Democrats and Republicans reside on an objective, political spectrum of Western democracies.  

If you buy into the whole left right thing, you’re already a lost cause. 
 

if you wanted to really try and create a “left - right” scale, at least use the correct extremes. The reality is that on one side would be maximum liberty and on the other would be total government control. As a country we’ve moved far to the government side in the last 30 years, regardless of president or party. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by dubs

[IDBillzFan]

7 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

However I also believe that things like 40 hour work week, paid holidays, paid vacation are a good thing.  They were put in place in part because happier employees (that get vacation etc) are better workers.

 

One of the things business owners got wrong was the idea that if you make the workplace more like a cool place to hang out, people will love to work there. Give them open work spaces, a gym downstairs, a couple of baristas, maybe free parking...even a place to nap.

 

It worked at first because it was cool and different. Then workers realized the idea was to keep them at work.

 

But after working many years as a regional sales director with staffs of anywhere from 10-20 people, I realized what I believe is one of the most important keys to having happy, productive workers: the collective understanding that their job should not be the single most important thing in their lives.

 

I believed if you could convince employees that you want their life outside work -- their hobbies, past times, family, church, community -- to be the priority, they would be more committed and productive. No, we don't want you working more than 40 hours a week, and weekend work was avoided...UNLESS we had a rush of business and everyone understood we all had to peddle a bit faster for a couple of weeks. Yes, we want you coaching your kids baseball team or being a deacon at your church or take your child's class on a field trip.

 

Turns out, at least for me and my company, it works wonders. In 15 years, one person quit to get a big payday. Everyone else is still here since the start.

 

Not bragging. Just making a point. Work is important, but when we make people feel like it MUST be the most important thing in their world, we're not helping anyone.

 

[PetermansRedemption]

19 hours ago, 3rdnlng said:

Well that's a bold prediction. Is that fence getting a little too uncomfortable to be sitting on? 

Oh I’m very biased. That’s why I refrain from commenting on most political things. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by PetermansRedemption

[Gene Frenkle]

1 hour ago, shepherdog1960 said:

No one could have predicted this? https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/photos-and-video/video/2014/12/02/president-obama-speaks-fight-against-ebola

 

watch from 15:20

 

 

drive by post.  not getting immersed in this swamp again.  I'll just add that the chorus here are morons and haven't improved themselves a bit.  doc is a pseudo doc.  dc tom is an absent idiot. and the shah did die from the mistakes of an inexperienced, world famous surgeon.  Shaq was more lucky.

Obama has Prescience.  Scarily prophetic.

[Buffalo_Gal]

Pfizer thinks they can stop the virus from replicating. Going to trials soon.

19 tested currently
26 active planing

 

Passed 2M tests completed in the United States.

DOE: money for college students for housing and classes. Student loan payments have been suspended for six months.

[Deranged Rhino]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Pfizer thinks they can stop the virus from replicating. Going to trials soon.

19 tested currently
26 active planing

 

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/pfizer-identifies-lead-coronavirus-drug-candidate-11586427303

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

Pence:

DOD 4100 active duty medical personal have been deployed to NYC/NJ/CT

There is a temp service with these military personal to relieve dedicated hospital workers in the city of NY (they are making certain the ship is fully staffed, as well as the Javits center, but as they are not now full of patients,  the medical personal can help elsewhere)


 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal

[shepherdog1960]

52 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Keep on driving, simp.

an unlikely word for an fmg to use

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by shepherdog1960

[njbuff]

People continue to pack into small places out here on Long Island.

 

I have seriously misjudged the smarts of the people out here.

 

Common sense does not apply. 

 

I feel like I am the only one self quarantining. ?