SoCal Deek Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: Pritzker is going to have a revolt on his hands if he doesn't at least loosen some of the restrictions before the end of May and rightfully so. There is no reason why outdoor activities such as golf, tennis and outdoor work activities can't resume. If Grocery retailers and others can operate with reduced customer population and cleanliness practices, then so too should all retailers. We can't let nursing homes and their problems run the rest of the state. The Governors are flying by the seat of their pants. We have the perfect laboratory in that we have 50 individual states, many with different orders in place. I think what we're all discovering is that there is no strict formula for success. Florida never had some of these restrictions, and they are not seeing large problems. Other midwestern states NEVER went into full lockdown and they're not seeing large challenges. The Trump Task Force should have more than enough 'data' by now to start drawing some conclusions that can be applied more intelligently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Priorities. How DARE she? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Priorities. How DARE she? Love this Quote: “At the end of the day, we have political systems,” said Jonathan Kinloch, chairman of the organization. “We have political parties, and political parties exist for a reason. They do not belong to themselves,” Kinloch said of endorsed candidates and elected officials. “They belong to the members and precinct delegates of the Democratic Party.” "Sieg Heil!" Edited April 23, 2020 by billsfan1959 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 27 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Beyer, D - VA What a bunch of clowns. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 How long til somebody complains about "antibody privilege?" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Gary M said: If antibody testing is accurate, there is no reason for any of it at this point. If the NYC study can be extrapolated and is accurate, NYC at 20% is good for NYC being some ways to achieving herd immunity, but NYC definitely doesn't extrapolate to the rest of the US. If it did, other cities would have been bombed like NYC and they haven't been. So while the NYC data is interesting, it's only telling a little bit of the story so far. And that the rest of NYS is only at 4% means that we may have a long ways to go to achieve the herd immunity. I'm not saying we shouldn't see that data as interesting and potentially optimistic on mortality, but sort of like the rush to embrace HCQ, be sure to temper it. Edited April 23, 2020 by shoshin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Kemp said: Expecting respect when you never show respect to anyone else is pretty funny. That cuts both ways, you know... I'm not going to speculate on who (between Trump and the press corps) started the disrespect spiral -- that's a fruitless endeavor. I do certainly acknowledge that there's lack of respect in both directions. If you acknowledge that too, are you also saying that the press doesn't have to show respect to Trump because he fails to show respect to them? Taking it a small step further, are you saying that the public at large should refrain from showing respect to Trump because he doesn't reciprocate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said: My God, how unlucky do you have to be to die like that? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, shoshin said: If the NYC study can be extrapolated and is accurate, NYC at 20% is good for NYC being some ways to achieving herd immunity, but NYC definitely doesn't extrapolate to the rest of the US. If it did, other cities would have been bombed like NYC and they haven't been. So while the NYC data is interesting, it's only telling a little bit of the story so far. And that the rest of NYS is only at 4% means that we may have a long ways to go to achieve the herd immunity. I'm not saying we shouldn't see that data as interesting and potentially optimistic on mortality, but sort of like the rush to embrace HCQ, be sure to temper it. These are hard numbers that prove that the models were absolutely incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Just now, Koko78 said: My God, how unlucky do you have to be to die like that? Bills fan unlucky. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Bills fan unlucky. At least we're not Browns fans... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Magox said: Not sure if this was posted earlier but another fascinating antibody result conducted by the state of NY. They go on to say: Would that include people who are currently infected? Infected a week or two ago? Whatever the case, this is yet another data point that supports a considerably lower mortality rate. And if they aren't including the people who are currently infected or were infected a week or two ago, then that number is going to be considerably higher. I have long maintained that before we get to the summer that number will end up being well over 25% and closer to 50% in New York City. By Fall, they could be entering into a somewhat of a herd immunity. No...New York state at .7% and New York city at .6% The way the article reads is that it doesn't take into account people who are currently infected. At least that is not the way it reads. I am actually shocked those positive rates aren't much higher, with how contagious this thing is. I participated in the study, am interested to see if I have the anti-bodies.... 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 The 500-bed US Navy hospital ship Comfort is leaving NYC after treating just 179 patients in 3 weeks. . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Just now, B-Man said: The 500-bed US Navy hospital ship Comfort is leaving NYC after treating just 179 patients in 3 weeks. . MILLIONS WILL DIE! Right, @jrober38? 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, B-Man said: The 500-bed US Navy hospital ship Comfort is leaving NYC after treating just 179 patients in 3 weeks. . The Love Boat is moving on to its next Port of Call. Someone strike up the reggae band! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, shoshin said: Agree but exercise some caution on herd immunity being particularly widespread even if those numbers can be extrapolated: The results differed across the state with the largest concentration of positive antibody tests found in New York City at 21.2%. In Long Island, 16.7% of the people tested were positive and in Westchester, where the state’s first major outbreak originated, 11.7% of the tests were positive. The Covid-19 pandemic across the rest of the state is relatively contained with just 3.6% of positive test results. The testing results also may be artificially high because “these are people who were out and about shopping,” Cuomo added. “They were not people who were in their home, they were not people isolated, they were not people who were quarantined who you could argue probably had a lower rate of infection because they wouldn’t come out of the house.” I'm not sure I agree with the bolded part. In fact, if I'm the only one in my family going out and about, and I get exposed and test positive for antibodies, then I can pretty safely assume that the other people in my house have likely been exposed, too. All we've been told is that this virus is super contagious. If anything, I think the number should likely be higher -- like maybe somewhere between 1x and 2.6x higher (because average house size is 2.6 people I suppose).. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said: I am actually shocked those positive rates aren't much higher, with how contagious this thing is. I participated in the study, am interested to see if I have the anti-bodies.... Will they notify you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Just now, Gary M said: Will they notify you? Yeah they said 3-6 days by phone. Got tested on Tuesday, so by late this week early next week 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 21 minutes ago, /dev/null said: How long til somebody complains about "antibody privilege?" Well, they are WHITE blood cells, after all. How much more racist can they get? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 47 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: So, what does this mean in English? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Albwan said: the left has nothing of their own, outside of 'orangemanbad' I almost spit milk out my nose when c3tibsgaryzevon or whomever wrote in a post that a right leaning poster was a snowflake who was triggered. LOL. Fake news. I never wrote that. But congratulations are in order because you have made the snowflake list, too. Edited April 23, 2020 by SectionC3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Just now, Buffalo_Gal said: So, what does this mean in English? I read it as the data is improving to the point of opening the door for new therapeutics which can be brought to market quicker than expected. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 45 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: The Governors are flying by the seat of their pants. We have the perfect laboratory in that we have 50 individual states, many with different orders in place. I think what we're all discovering is that there is no strict formula for success. Florida never had some of these restrictions, and they are not seeing large problems. Other midwestern states NEVER went into full lockdown and they're not seeing large challenges. The Trump Task Force should have more than enough 'data' by now to start drawing some conclusions that can be applied more intelligently. They should, you're right. Unfortunately testing has been deficient so we're in the dark so numbers w/r/t infection rate, hospitalization rate, mortality rate, etc. still are imprecise. 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: I read it as the data is improving to the point of opening the door for new therapeutics which can be brought to market quicker than expected. I'm not a doctor, but I reached the same conclusion. Well stated on your end. 22 minutes ago, shoshin said: If the NYC study can be extrapolated and is accurate, NYC at 20% is good for NYC being some ways to achieving herd immunity, but NYC definitely doesn't extrapolate to the rest of the US. If it did, other cities would have been bombed like NYC and they haven't been. So while the NYC data is interesting, it's only telling a little bit of the story so far. And that the rest of NYS is only at 4% means that we may have a long ways to go to achieve the herd immunity. I'm not saying we shouldn't see that data as interesting and potentially optimistic on mortality, but sort of like the rush to embrace HCQ, be sure to temper it. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said: I am actually shocked those positive rates aren't much higher, with how contagious this thing is. I participated in the study, am interested to see if I have the anti-bodies.... So I was looking through the statements and as much data as I could that is publicly available to my knowledge. This does not include people who currently are infected. Which could be a big number because that means that it blots out a sizable number of people. Secondly, it doesn't count the dead. Thirdly, it over sampled white people. White people for whatever reason tested positive at only 9% whereas Hispanics and African Americans tested positive at around 22-23%. It also doesn't sample people who are sick and self quarantining so I know that they said on one hand it's people who are out and about at grocery stores, but that also implies people who are heeding the guidelines who are showing symptoms of staying home. More of these tests will be done. RIght now NY city is showing 21% according to this test, I would be shocked that when more tests come out and they take a look at more factors with proper random sampling that New York City isn't at least at 40% by the time June rolls around. Edited April 23, 2020 by Magox 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Unfortunately testing has been deficient so we're in the dark so numbers w/r/t infection rate, hospitalization rate, mortality rate, etc. still are imprecise. The numbers have always been imprecise; however, they could never be questioned. Plenty of posters on this board got crucified for questioning numbers. Now that some numbers are starting to come out that indicate the virus might not be as deadly as thought, and it is demanded we be skeptical... Edited April 23, 2020 by billsfan1959 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 17 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Well, they are WHITE blood cells, after all. How much more racist can they get? If minorities were truly as disproportionately impacted as advertised by the media, they should be disproportionately high on antibodies. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: The numbers have always been imprecise; however, they could never be questioned. Plenty of posters on this board got crucified for questioning numbers. Now that some numbers are starting to come out that indicate the virus might not be as deadly as thought, and it is demanded we be skeptical... Not sure what you're talking about. I can't see why we wouldn't be optimistic, but guardedly so, about today's data. The numbers today, while a good sign, provide opacity but not clarity. Not sure what prior numbers you're referring to or what your complaint is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 15 hours ago, BillStime said: Isn’t this cute... Trump (the Company) Asks Trump (the Administration) for Hotel Relief Shocking! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Gov Cooper extends restrictions until May 8 There is some indication he may extend until the end of May. I was hoping he would start opening things up by next week. We have 10.5 Million People in the state with less than 7,800 confirmed cases and 275 deaths. The county I live in has 1.1 million people, with 626 confirmed cases and 11 deaths. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, snafu said: I'm not sure I agree with the bolded part. In fact, if I'm the only one in my family going out and about, and I get exposed and test positive for antibodies, then I can pretty safely assume that the other people in my house have likely been exposed, too. All we've been told is that this virus is super contagious. If anything, I think the number should likely be higher -- like maybe somewhere between 1x and 2.6x higher (because average house size is 2.6 people I suppose).. Cuomo said as much: Quote Mr. Cuomo declined to speculate on what the preliminary data might mean. He said its main use would to provide a baseline for tracking changes in the infection rate. Supermarket customers do not constitute a random sample of the population. On one hand, they are out in public and spending time in stores, which could increase their exposure to the virus. On the other hand, they are presumably not actively sick, or living in nursing homes, where the virus has taken a heavy toll. And, of course, no one who was killed by the virus was tested for antibodies. Not to mention the antibody tests presumably didn't capture the people they pricked who actually have the Virus. That could constitute a significant undercount, not to mention they over sampled white people. And for whatever reason, White people that they tested only tested positive at 9% whereas Latino's and Blacks tested around 22-23%. Unless there is something wrong with these antibody tests, which could be the case, then these numbers most likely represent an undercount of the actual numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Gov Cooper extends restrictions until May 8 There is some indication he may extend until the end of May. I was hoping he would start opening things up by next week. We have 10.5 Million People in the state with less than 7,800 confirmed cases and 275 deaths. The county I live in has 1.1 million people, with 626 confirmed cases and 11 deaths. The criteria put on PA to reopen puts those of us in the eastern half of the state probably 2+ months away from even the first phase of reopening. https://www.pennlive.com/coronavirus/2020/04/after-further-review-most-midstate-counties-not-yet-ready-for-yellow-under-wolf-administration-formula.html My county is running on average about 7x per day higher than we need to sustain for 2 weeks to open, and we are still undertesting. I don't expect to be open under his criteria until July, as we haven't seen any downward trend in cases reported yet. This standard for PA is ridiculous. (We are nowhere near as bad as Philly and some others.) Edited April 23, 2020 by shoshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 minute ago, shoshin said: The criteria put on PA to reopen puts those of us in the eastern half of the state probably 2+ months away from even the first phase of reopening. https://www.pennlive.com/coronavirus/2020/04/after-further-review-most-midstate-counties-not-yet-ready-for-yellow-under-wolf-administration-formula.html That is too long. Seriously. People down here in North Carolina are getting pretty restless. There were protests last week and this week. They would go crazy if we went 2+ months before opening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 STUDY: Nearly all NYC coronavirus patients had underlying health conditions. “94% had at least one additional ailment. 88% had more than one.” "Imams Overrule Pakistan’s Coronavirus Lockdown as Ramadan Nears." "The government gave in to clerics’ demands that mosques be allowed to stay open during the Islamic holy month. Now critics are asking who’s in charge."NYT has a headline . . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Jared’s task force seized more PPE. We still have no accounting for where seized medical equipment is going. Miami-Dade County misses out on 1 million N95 masks when feds scoop up shipment #FollowTheMoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, B-Man said: STUDY: Nearly all NYC coronavirus patients had underlying health conditions. “94% had at least one additional ailment. 88% had more than one.” . So, I think this was actually the most informative data point that came out today. Quote Health records showed that 94% of the 5,700 patients in the Northwell Health system — which has had the most patients in the country during the pandemic — had at least one disease other than COVID-19, according to the Journal of the American Medical Association. 88% had more than one ailment on top of coronavirus. Chart from Time: Hypertension was the most common ailment, affecting 53% of coronavirus patients. Another 42% of patients who had a body mass index on file were obese and 32% of all patients had diabetes. Data from 2,634 patients who either died or were discharged from the hospital showed that 12% were on ventilators and that 88% of those on ventilators died. We knew that people with comorbidities were people at highest risk and there was some research and data in Italy that echoed this. But to put this into perspective, is that 94% of the people who have died had a pre existing medical condition and the more striking number is that 88% of the people had two pre existing medical conditions. Most of them due to some sort of heart disease or condition. When you couple this data with what the antibody tests, you are probably talking about a mortality rate for people who don't have pre existing medical conditions of somewhere around .02 - .1%...... If we are to truly trust the data and that the data does end up somewhat confirming this, then the data says that we should be doing a targeted approach to social distancing. Not withstanding the heavy population areas, the data appears to back up Sweden's approach. Quote But now, the country’s chief epidemiologist said the strategy appears to be working and that “herd immunity” could be reached in the capital Stockholm in a matter of weeks. “In major parts of Sweden, around Stockholm, we have reached a plateau (in new cases) and we’re already seeing the effect of herd immunity and in a few weeks’ time we’ll see even more of the effects of that. And in the rest of the country, the situation is stable,” Dr. Anders Tegnell, chief epidemiologist at Sweden’s Public Health Agency, told CNBC on Tuesday. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Buffalo_Gal said: So, what does this mean in English? the are going to be using monoclonail antibodies (mAbs) to attack the virus. monoclonial antibodies are man made proteins synthesized from cloned immune cells,. this therapy is a popular cancer treatment. The advent and rise of monoclonal antibodies 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: That is too long. Seriously. People down here in North Carolina are getting pretty restless. There were protests last week and this week. They would go crazy if we went 2+ months before opening. Amen brother. I can work at home indefinitely, but the economy can't take it and really, I want my daughter to have some time with her school friends and a start to her first college year at college, though I am definitely concerned that may not happen at this point. 6 minutes ago, Magox said: So, I think this was actually the most informative data point that came out today. We knew that people with comorbidities were people at highest risk and there was some research and data in Italy that echoed this. But to put this into perspective, is that 94% of the people who have died had a pre existing medical condition and the more striking number is that 88% of the people had two pre existing medical conditions. Most of them due to some sort of heart disease or condition. When you couple this data with what the antibody tests, you are probably talking about a mortality rate for people who don't have pre existing medical conditions of somewhere around .02 - .1%...... If we are to truly trust the data and that the data does end up somewhat confirming this, then the data says that we should be doing a targeted approach to social distancing. Keep saying it. We are dropping an anvil on this and could be doing this much more surgically and probably better, because we'd be focusing on helping those most affected and not just spending energy on everyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Just now, shoshin said: Amen brother. I can work at home indefinitely, but the economy can't take it and really, I want my daughter to have some time with her school friends and a start to her first college year at college, though I am definitely concerned that may not happen at this point. This has become a political football. The Blue state governors are moving the goal posts. The standard used to be "Flatten the curve" and now the goal posts are moving from the blue state governors and now it is "We need more testing before we can open up the economy". Polls show that more people are concerned with being overly cautious (even though I do think the polls are worded poorly) and it is an election year and this seems to be the unified position from the left. So, they can hold out until they get what they perceive enough testing for phase 1 despite Dr Fauci and Dr Birx saying otherwise. If the Red states open up without too much incident or outbreaks then the pressure will grow for them to reopen up parts of their economy. 4 minutes ago, shoshin said: Amen brother. I can work at home indefinitely, but the economy can't take it and really, I want my daughter to have some time with her school friends and a start to her first college year at college, though I am definitely concerned that may not happen at this point. Keep saying it. We are dropping an anvil on this and could be doing this much more surgically and probably better, because we'd be focusing on helping those most affected and not just spending energy on everyone. Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Magox said: This has become a political football. The Blue state governors are moving the goal posts. The standard used to be "Flatten the curve" and now the goal posts are moving from the blue state governors and now it is "We need more testing before we can open up the economy". Polls show that more people are concerned with being overly cautious (even though I do think the polls are worded poorly) and it is an election year and this seems to be the unified position from the left. So, they can hold out until they get what they perceive enough testing for phase 1 despite Dr Fauci and Dr Birx saying otherwise. I think Birx and Fauci agree on the Trump guidelines. The guidelines are not being met to move into phase 1 in most places yet, even those that are about to open. Just noting this for the record. Quote If the Red states open up without too much incident or outbreaks then the pressure will grow for them to reopen up parts of their economy. Yep The southern states are doing well, which is probable weather driven. So it's a little hard to say the NE should follow their lead just because they may do better. I'm not arguing your point, just that what's good for Texas may not be good for NY. I do think regional opening based on data is the way to proceed. Edited April 23, 2020 by shoshin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 minute ago, shoshin said: I think Birx and Fauci agree on the Trump guidelines. The guidelines are not being met to move into phase 1 in most places yet, even those that are about to open. Just noting this for the record. The southern states are doing well, which is probable weather driven. So it's a little hard to say the NE should follow their lead just because they may do better. I'm not arguing your point, just that what's good for Texas may not be good for NY. I do think regional opening based on data is the way to proceed. I agree with this....The Federal government has already made their guidelines, so now that those are the guidelines I think all states should follow suit once they meet the criteria. Clearly states in the south have an advantage over the northern states as do the states with more sparse population density over the more populous ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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