The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[shoshin]

6 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

It makes sense when you remember he’s selling vaccines. Not doing them for free. 
 

(and it helps when you remember he believes in depopulation to save the environment, yet he spends his philanthropic time creating vaccines and fighting malaria — both of which run counter to that idea. Which is just to say, he’s a complicated guy.) 
 

 

Most people think fewer humans would be good for the earth in many ways. Not just ecologically although that's true but also economically long term. But depopulation by killing humans is a lot different than trying to find a way to birth fewer resource-consuming humans, especially for the issues he's mostly concerned about in developing countries. 

 

Gates's humanitarian efforts are praiseworthy and he has been talking about these flexible vaccine factories for a while to respond to outbreaks. He's not the only person and his investments are not the only companies that have this capability. He just gets more press because of who he is. If the early stage vaccine trials are promising, a lot of places will get started preparing in advance so we can produce sooner, even though that preparation could be a total loss if the trials don't work out. It's a risk we all are OK with. 

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by shoshin

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Most people think fewer humans would be good for the earth in many ways.

 

 

 

Not anyone who truly believes in science.

 

Pseudo-science maybe.

 

[shoshin]

7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Not anyone who truly believes in science.

 

Pseudo-science maybe.

 

 

I feel like you're trying to engage in a climate change debate. I think anyone would admit that humans pollute the crap out of the earth and make a mess of it, especially the corner of it where about 3 billion people live. I am not advocating that we kill 2.5 billion of them, but India and China would not be such an environmental catastrophe if they didn't have so many people. 

 

The US and Europe have fewer issues. 

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by shoshin

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

I feel like you're trying to engage in a climate change debate. I think anyone would admit that humans pollute the crap out of the earth and make a mess of it, especially the corner of it where about 3 billion people live. I am not advocating that we kill 2.5 billion of them, but India and China would not be such an environmental catastrophe if they didn't have so many people. 

 

The US and Europe have fewer issues. 

 

 

And I'm sure you realize that people even in those countries live DEMONSTRABLY better lives than people in those same countries did 1000 years ago, when the population was a fraction of what it is now, yes?

 

[billsfan1959]

12 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You called the article bull#### without any proof whatsoever.

I asked you to prove that bold claim.

 

I called the article bull**** because it made an accusation that Trump did nothing for 70 days and offered no evidence of when he should have acted. A point I clearly stated in the following reply.

 

11 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

The article claimed that Trump failed to do anything from the time anyone knew about this virus on Dec 31st, until the beginning of March, yet, literally offered no evidence, whatsoever, that provides anything close to a compelling argument that Trump, should have taken any other steps than he did before the end of February.

 

If the article is going to claim he failed to act during that time frame, then provide some evidence as to why he should have. They provided nothing. Not one bit of evidence. They discussed other things that I might even agree with; however, as to the point of delay: Nothing.

 

Now, please provide us with the evidence that shows Trump should have known, before the end of February, how serious this virus was going to be outside of China. Don't quote us another article with no actual facts. Tell us in your own words and cite the evidence that leads you to that conclusion.

 

If you want to have a real discussion, now is your chance.

 

This is your reply below:

 

10 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

No. The article didn't claim this.

Proves you didn't read it.

 

 

Here is your original post of the article that I originally responded to as bull****. NOTICE THE FIRST SENTENCE IN THE TWITTER POST AND BOLDED PARTS IN THE ARTICLE YOU COPIED AND PASTED.

 

On 4/5/2020 at 3:19 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

This article, which retraces the failures over the first 70 days of the coronavirus crisis, is based on 47 interviews with administration officials, public health experts, intelligence officers and others involved in fighting the pandemic. Many spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive information and decisions.

 

The Trump administration received its first formal notification of the outbreak of the coronavirus in China on Jan. 3. Within days, U.S. spy agencies were signaling the seriousness of the threat to Trump by including a warning about the coronavirus — the first of many — in the President’s Daily Brief.

 

And yet, it took 70 days from that initial notification for Trump to treat the coronavirus not as a distant threat or harmless flu strain well under control, but as a lethal force that had outflanked America’s defenses and was poised to kill tens of thousands of citizens. That more-than-two-month stretch now stands as critical time that was squandered.

 

So, let me recap:

 

1) You post an article, the point of which was to accuse the Trump Administration of failing to act for 70 days

 

2) I call it bull****, and provide a complete timeline of accurate, verifiable facts showing why it was reasonable for Trump and every other leader to not realize how substantial the threat outside of China was until late Feb. I ask you to tell us when you think he should have acted and why.

 

3) You refuse to answer my question. You respond that I called the article bull**** and ask me to prove it (even though I already did with the facts in the timeline).

 

4) I go through the article, AGAIN, and literally find nothing, AGAIN, that says WHY he should have done more. I point out to you that there is literally no evidence presented in the article to show there was a failure of Trump to act in that first 70 days.

 

5) Your response then is to actually say the article didn't claim Trump waited 70 days to act. You then stated it proves I didn't read it

 

6) It is in the actual twitter post you copied, in the very first sentence of the article you posted, and the ENTIRE POINT of the article. So, apparently YOU didn't read ANYTHING that YOU copied and posted.

 

7) You are an idiot, and I mean that in the kindest "you have a room temperature IQ" kind of way.

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by billsfan1959

[123719bwiqrb]

Just a reminder that this will never see the light of day for the average Joe.  These antibody tests will be kept out of the public's eye, as the political fallout would be catastrophic.  Imagine knowing that you had it before you lost your job and way of life forever.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-started-administering-antibody-tests-142847707.html

Edited April 6, 2020 by ScotSHO

[shoshin]

16 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

Just a reminder that this will never see the light of day for the average Joe.  These antibody tests will be kept out of the public's eye, as the political fallout would be catastrophic.  Imagine knowing that you had it before you lost you job and way of life forever.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-started-administering-antibody-tests-142847707.html

 

If the virus was massively widespread, we would not be seeing a surge of cases and deaths suddenly.

 

We didn't shut down for nothing, and it would be GREAT if we shut down, controlled it, and can control it moving forward. 

 

 

41 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

And I'm sure you realize that people even in those countries live DEMONSTRABLY better lives than people in those same countries did 1000 years ago, when the population was a fraction of what it is now, yes?

 

 

This conversation is not on point in this thread but of course, we all do. Overpopulation is a problem in China, India, Pakistan, Indodesia and other areas. The best solution to overpopulation is the education of women. Not sex education, just plain education. The developing world is a constant petri dish of disease and strife because of too many bodies, and too few resources. 

[123719bwiqrb]

4 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

If the virus was massively widespread, we would not be seeing a surge of cases and deaths suddenly.

 

We didn't shut down for nothing, and it would be GREAT if we shut down, controlled it, and can control it moving forward. 

 

 

 

This conversation is not on point in this thread but of course, we all do. Overpopulation is a problem in China, India, Pakistan, Indodesia and other areas. The best solution to overpopulation is the education of women. Not sex education, just plain education. The developing world is a constant petri dish of disease and strife because of too many bodies, and too few resources. 

 

Are you a 

 

B

 

O 

 

T

 

?

 

Your answers are so weird. 

[Tiberius]

 

Quote

 

On ABC’s “This Week,” former Trump homeland security official Tom Bossert tried to shake his former colleagues out of their stupor.

“He’s looking 10 feet, and it seems a lot of our leaders are looking 10 feet in front of their bumper right now and dealing with the daily tactics and distribution issues and all these questions of these daily press briefings,” Bossert said. He practically begged Trump to look ahead, explaining, “We need to start thinking about how to message to people the extreme, extremely difficult and massive mobilization of effort and testing that’s going to come ahead of tomorrow and the next day. All through April, but also all through this summer it’s going to be a very tedious affair that requires very careful planning and very careful execution. We just don’t want people, at the end of April, to think, I’m tired of this, and we’re all going to run back into the streets.”

 

 

[meazza]

2 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Though I understand the point of your meme, it isn’t a cure.

 

 

[3rdnlng]

[shoshin]

34 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

 

Are you a 

 

B

 

O 

 

T

 

?

 

Your answers are so weird. 

 

I'm not sure what you are asking. You made a point, I believe, that maybe people are being laid off for no reason. If I misinterpreted that, let me know. I was not attacking you. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

50 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

This conversation is not on point in this thread but of course, we all do. Overpopulation is a problem in China, India, Pakistan, Indodesia and other areas. The best solution to overpopulation is the education of women. Not sex education, just plain education. The developing world is a constant petri dish of disease and strife because of too many bodies, and too few resources. 

 

This denies a basic fundamental truth: More people does not equate to more scarcity. I'd urge you to start watching some futurism videos while you're stuck at home. A good starter would be the YouTuber Isaac Arthur. His day job is a physicist and astronomer, so he's got some really interesting stuff.

 

 

[3rdnlng]

Just now, meazza said:

Though I understand the point of your meme, it isn’t a cure.

 

 

It isn't a cure until it has been tested enough? We all know it needs further testing to see how it reacts with the peculiarities of Covid-19 but in the desert even a glass of muddy water is appreciated. We need the studies but we also need to let the doctors and patients figure out what's the best for those particular patients. Otherwise we might just as well have community college graduates plug everything into a computer and have the computer direct the treatment. Enough anecdotes will eventually be considered a trial. If only Trump hadn't looked at HCQ as a possible cure we might not have all these objections by people mainly on the left. 

[RochesterRob]

34 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

 

  This Week has very little credibility as it has the finger prints of George Stephanopolous all over it.  

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

 

You don't have any credibility at all 

[3rdnlng]

[RochesterRob]

22 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

You don't have any credibility at all 

  Poloncarz says that laundromats are essential services.  Get back to work!

[/dev/null]

9 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Poloncarz says that laundromats are essential services.  Get back to work!

 

But can Tibs still make that extra scratch by folding the laundry, or is that in violation of social distancing?

[Doc]

10 hours ago, meazza said:

Fauci has claimed himself that if he was to have the virus, that he would request to be in a clinical trial.  
 

The reality is that the most effective solution is social distancing and he probably doesn’t want anyone to lay off the accelerator.

 

Anecdotal evidence and surveys doesn’t not equate science.

 

BS.  If Fauci had Wuhan virus and his symptoms started to get worse, he'd take HCQ.  Because people have been helped by it and there is no other treatment at present.  Hell remdesivir, if it works, won't be without side effects.

 

But yes, prevention is the best method.

 

10 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

Right. Wishing more was done sooner is much different than reasonably expecting Trump or anyone else to know what serious steps would need to be taken before the end of Feb. When you point out he did more sooner than any one else, like restrict travel from China, they counter with things like, “Well over 300,00 people who had been in China traveled here before he enacted the ban.” They fail to mention that most of them traveled here when there were few cases outside of China, the WHO was still telling the world there were no instances of human to human transfer of the virus, and that most Democrats were opposed to the ban. I have yet to have one of them provide what evidence they feel was compelling enough to them to say It is reasonable to believe Trump should have known how serious it was going to be and should have done more sooner.

 

10 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Just hate the dems act and talk like all saviors but would do lots of nothing......

 

Hindsight is 20/20.  If they want to play the "what it" game, the other side can do it as well.  The only way to have prevented this from devastating the country was shutting down the borders as soon as the first case was reported in China, which was never going to happen.

 

10 hours ago, njbuff said:

Diabetic patients like myself could be extremely vulnerable to this drug. At least that is what I was told.

 

I will believe it if it came down to it.

 

Luckily I am so far away from everyone that I don't get this disease, so this might all be mute. ?

 

Diabetic patients are extremely susceptible to Wuhan virus.  But like you said, if you needed to, you'd take HCQ.

 

And stay safe.

 

[RochesterRob]

3 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

 

But can Tibs still make that extra scratch by folding the laundry, or is that in violation of social distancing?

  He's good to go as long as he wears a mask.

[3rdnlng]

11 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  He's good to go as long as he wears a mask.

Yes, but that cuts down on his "service job(s)"

[CommonCents]

Are people that test for it and aren’t hospitalized allowed to get HCQ or is just an emergency thing?

[Foxx]

17 hours ago, daz28 said:

Was anyone charged with inciting the hate crime assault, or do we have to wait until January for that?

in case you were unaware, this past January they passed a bail reform law. as part of a natural evolution of it, they have just stopped arresting people at all.

[TH3]

2 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

Are people that test for it and aren’t hospitalized allowed to get HCQ or is just an emergency thing?

 

Lord...HCQ....You know what would have saved 10's of thousands of lives and trillions in economic activity? Starting our current state of action in February instead of the end of March, having all states adhere to a common protocol...you know....having our general ***** together.....which will still have more lives and economic activity than HCQ ever will ....and yet here the nation is ....talking about HCQ like its a difference maker...

[B-Man]

STACY MCCAIN: Coronavirus: The Wrong Numbers. Will the media ever admit the failure of doomsday projections? 

 

What matters, from the perspective of avoiding a crisis that overwhelms our health-care system, is not how many people are infected with the coronavirus, but rather the number of patients hospitalized.

 

As tests for the Chinese virus have become more widely available, a majority of people who test positive — more than 80 percent in some states — are never hospitalized. Earlier projections of a system-crashing crisis have so far been proven false, but the media refuse to acknowledge the failure of the doomsday prophets and their computer-generated pandemic models.”

 

I’d say it’s a little early to declare victory yet, but I did just hear from a doc in New Orleans that his ICU was full, but not overloaded.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 minutes ago, TH3 said:

 

Lord...HCQ....You know what would have saved 10's of thousands of lives and trillions in economic activity? Starting our current state of action in February instead of the end of March, having all states adhere to a common protocol...you know....having our general ***** together.....which will still have more lives and economic activity than HCQ ever will ....and yet here the nation is ....talking about HCQ like its a difference maker...

 

is there literally ANY topic you're right on?

 

[B-Man]

 

 

PROPERLY TARGETED, BUDGET CUTS WOULD PROBABLY MAKE THE FDA MUCH MORE PRODUCTIVE: 

 

FDA Bureaucracy Grows 79% Since 2007.

 

 

ANY cuts now will be regarded as "Gutting" the FDA..........?

 

 

.

 

[shoshin]

9 minutes ago, TH3 said:

 

Lord...HCQ....You know what would have saved 10's of thousands of lives and trillions in economic activity? Starting our current state of action in February instead of the end of March, having all states adhere to a common protocol...you know....having our general ***** together.....which will still have more lives and economic activity than HCQ ever will ....and yet here the nation is ....talking about HCQ like its a difference maker...

 

If my aunt had a penis, she'd be my uncle. 

 

(This needs updating in our new world. A saying lost to the ages I guess.)

 

February was a lost month, 2017-2019 were lost years. But here we are now. No responsible person is whining about HCQ. Maybe it helps. Maybe it doesn't. In cases where it doesn't hurt a patient, it's worth a shot because of anecdotal evidence and because the virus is moving faster than the data. 

 

But we've already had conflicting actual preliminary tests about its effectiveness. That's not a political observation. 

[US Egg]

3 minutes ago, B-Man said:

Will the media ever admit the failure of doomsday projections? 

[shoshin]

4 minutes ago, B-Man said:

STACY MCCAIN: Coronavirus: The Wrong Numbers. Will the media ever admit the failure of doomsday projections? 

 

What matters, from the perspective of avoiding a crisis that overwhelms our health-care system, is not how many people are infected with the coronavirus, but rather the number of patients hospitalized.

 

As tests for the Chinese virus have become more widely available, a majority of people who test positive — more than 80 percent in some states — are never hospitalized. Earlier projections of a system-crashing crisis have so far been proven false, but the media refuse to acknowledge the failure of the doomsday prophets and their computer-generated pandemic models.”

 

I’d say it’s a little early to declare victory yet, but I did just hear from a doc in New Orleans that his ICU was full, but not overloaded.

 

We socially distance.

 

Maybe we don't have a huge problem.

 

"We overreacted." 

 

Maybe 1 and 2 were cause and effect, Stacy McCain. 

 

We didn't overreact in NYC. 

 

[CommonCents]

10 minutes ago, TH3 said:

 

Lord...HCQ....You know what would have saved 10's of thousands of lives and trillions in economic activity? Starting our current state of action in February instead of the end of March, having all states adhere to a common protocol...you know....having our general ***** together.....which will still have more lives and economic activity than HCQ ever will ....and yet here the nation is ....talking about HCQ like its a difference maker...

Yah I’m sure if the sitting president shut down travel entirely there  wouldn’t have been riots in every major city.

 

Now can you answer my question? If not, hush it. I don’t see anyone saying it’s a cure. The closest thing was a silly meme. 

 

Boston Medical Center has been treating everyone that is even suspected with it, I was curious if it was now being provided by general care docs. 

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, TH3 said:

Lord...HCQ....You know what would have saved 10's of thousands of lives and trillions in economic activity? Starting our current state of action in February instead of the end of March, having all states adhere to a common protocol...you know....having our general ***** together.....which will still have more lives and economic activity than HCQ ever will ....and yet here the nation is ....talking about HCQ like its a difference maker...

 

What about if Dems were in control and we didn't shut down the borders for weeks after they were shut down?  Talk about a difference-maker...

[B-Man]

THE STORM BEFORE THE CALM: 

 

Surgeon General Warns That This Week Will Be ‘Our Pearl Harbor’ Moment as Virus Deaths Will Spike.

 

 

 

 

WHEN THIS IS OVER, WE SHOULD LEAVE THE SUSPENDED REGULATIONS SUSPENDED: 

 

Coronavirus Puts Counterproductive Regulations Into Perspective: Many regulations serve little to no public purpose.

 

 

 

.

 

[meazza]

18 minutes ago, TH3 said:

 

Lord...HCQ....You know what would have saved 10's of thousands of lives and trillions in economic activity? Starting our current state of action in February instead of the end of March, having all states adhere to a common protocol...you know....having our general ***** together.....which will still have more lives and economic activity than HCQ ever will ....and yet here the nation is ....talking about HCQ like its a difference maker...

There’s not one western nation that shut down anything or even contemplated it in February and no leader would have made that choice.  To focus on that makes you even more intellectually dishonest than you already are.

 

There are hundreds of clinical trials that are now taking place so you should not discount the benefit of drugs to help minimize the severity of cases and death.

[Chef Jim]

20 minutes ago, TH3 said:

 

Lord...HCQ....You know what would have saved 10's of thousands of lives and trillions in economic activity? Starting our current state of action in February instead of the end of March, having all states adhere to a common protocol...you know....having our general ***** together.....which will still have more lives and economic activity than HCQ ever will ....and yet here the nation is ....talking about HCQ like its a difference maker...

Yeah and if Frank Reich has only gotten those laces facing the right way. 
 

Hindsight doesn’t make you smart. It makes you a tool. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I called the article bull**** because it made an accusation that Trump did nothing for 70 days and offered no evidence of when he should have acted. A point I clearly stated in the following reply.

 

 

This is your reply below:

 

 

Here is your original post of the article that I originally responded to as bull****. NOTICE THE FIRST SENTENCE IN THE TWITTER POST AND BOLDED PARTS IN THE ARTICLE YOU COPIED AND PASTED.

 

 

So, let me recap:

 

1) You post an article, the point of which was to accuse the Trump Administration of failing to act for 70 days

 

2) I call it bull****, and provide a complete timeline of accurate, verifiable facts showing why it was reasonable for Trump and every other leader to not realize how substantial the threat outside of China was until late Feb. I ask you to tell us when you think he should have acted and why.

 

3) You refuse to answer my question. You respond that I called the article bull**** and ask me to prove it (even though I already did with the facts in the timeline).

 

4) I go through the article, AGAIN, and literally find nothing, AGAIN, that says WHY he should have done more. I point out to you that there is literally no evidence presented in the article to show there was a failure of Trump to act in that first 70 days.

 

5) Your response then is to actually say the article didn't claim Trump waited 70 days to act. You then stated it proves I didn't read it

 

6) It is in the actual twitter post you copied, in the very first sentence of the article you posted, and the ENTIRE POINT of the article. So, apparently YOU didn't read ANYTHING that YOU copied and posted.

 

7) You are an idiot, and I mean that in the kindest "you have a room temperature IQ" kind of way.

 

This is exactly why I refuse to interact with that poster in any way. Went through a very similar discussion a while back and realized that they have no interest in actual discussion. Just blasts links with no information, biased interpretation, or blatantly false information and ignores any information provided by the other side.

[Foxx]

3 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

Most people think fewer humans would be good for the earth in many ways. ...

 

... Gates's humanitarian efforts are praiseworthy and he has been talking about these flexible vaccine factories for a while to respond to outbreaks. ....

 

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, B-Man said:

THE STORM BEFORE THE CALM: 

 

Surgeon General Warns That This Week Will Be ‘Our Pearl Harbor’ Moment as Virus Deaths Will Spike.

 

 

 

 

WHEN THIS IS OVER, WE SHOULD LEAVE THE SUSPENDED REGULATIONS SUSPENDED: 

 

Coronavirus Puts Counterproductive Regulations Into Perspective: Many regulations serve little to no public purpose.

 

 

 

Every so often we get a visit from JCAHO.  What a worthless ***** organization that is.  Every time they come they find some stupid thing to ding us on so that they can justify their worthless jobs.  Now all that ***** has been thrown out the window.

[shoshin]

2 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

This is junk all over Twitter when I was trying to find a quote from Fauci. Craziness, though on Twitter, it went 8 layers deeper.

 

It's like saying Trump released the virus to stop a surging Joe Biden or Bezos released it so he could have a surge in profits at Amazon and Whole Foods. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by shoshin