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ngbills

Off-season: Expected and Surprise Cuts

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On 1/17/2020 at 2:16 PM, ngbills said:

Well $20M is going to Yannick Ngakoue. Trent Murphy pays for a big chunk of that. 

 

Then $10M+ to Conklin. Spencer Long savings will help with that. 

 

Kroft helps pay for Hooper and his $10M.

 

Then we are in good shape headed to the draft and a few other lower priced free agents. Get AJ Green on a short deal if possible, Robbie Anderson, and draft a WR. 

He aint worth $20 mil.

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2 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

He aint worth $20 mil.

I have watched very little of the Jags. I also don’t like the idea of using just stats to pass judgement. However if the Bills are going to shell out the biggest contract in years for the team to one player, it Would seem to me it needs to be someone with proven track record. So far he has one season of 12 sacks the rest are 8-9.5 sacks a season. I trust Beane and McDermott when it comes to defenders. I don’t anticipate them taking a huge swing and missing in FA. 

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I don’t see a bunch of cuts. They have the money and will only cut players like Murphy for a cheaper upgrade. Despite what people say on this board, Star and Murph can’t be replaced by a late round pick. 

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On 1/17/2020 at 8:34 PM, iccrewman112 said:


but the owner doesn’t actually pay dead money. Owners may want to keep the cash in their pocket.

 

The owner already paid the dead money... one would think they would want to see some ROI for money spent.  

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On 1/19/2020 at 4:38 PM, Green Lightning said:

I just don't see them dropping any FA coin on a TE. I think Kroft fit in well with Mcd's culture, and could be the veteran presence in that group if they move on from Lee Smith. I think they feel Kroft never got a chance to show what he can do on the field and with the cap room they have, why cut him? I think they'll go with Knox, Sweeney and Kroft.

Kroft is making over $6M per. He has only had one productive year in his career. I think they signed him last year more out of not having anything at the position but is he worth the money? If for $10M you can add Hooper and drop Kroft you have to do that in a heartbeat. Hooper can put up Kroft numbers with his eyes closed. He is a guy you line up outside and its like having another WR out there. I dont know if we could get him, but if you can that is a swap you better make. 

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I don’t see them cutting DiMarco. He’s the perfect deep threat for Allen.

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We don't even know who's going to be in training camp yet, and we're talking about surprise cuts. 

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On 1/17/2020 at 3:03 PM, MJS said:

I'd also be surprised if they cut Murphy. We don't really have a replacement.

 

I get you want to upgrade the position, but I think it's foolish to cut guys when you don't have an upgrade already in place. Now maybe they go to camp and a guy shows he can do that and the Bills decide to cut or trade Murphy. I'd be fine with that.

 

I don't see us moving on from Long. He's quality depth.

 

DiMarco is a cheap special teams and offensive contributor. Not sure I see the point in cutting him just to pay someone else his money to do the same thing and have to learn the system. People are obsessed with cutting him (because he's a FB I guess?). But all indications are that the coaches and teammates love him. He's a leader and he's been a captain.

 

From this I'd cut Kroft and Smith and bring the rest back to compete in camp.

 

I agree.  Plus a bunch of players are due roster bonuses in March.  That includes Star ($1M), Murphy ($500k),  Kroft ($750k+$2M of salary guarantees). Lee Smith ($500k), Hauschka ($250k), Yeldon ($150k) and Roberts ($100k).  


Of that group, Kroft is the guy I see released before that bonus is due.  His contract is ridiculous for his meager contribution.  I’d expect the rest to be here next season. 

 

Long has a contract with team options for this year and next.  It’s doubtful that this one will be picked up unless Morse has a horrible offseason injury before mid-March.  I still don’t understand why he got that contract with the Morse signing.  It seemed excessive as insurance. 

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7 hours ago, ngbills said:

Kroft is making over $6M per. He has only had one productive year in his career. I think they signed him last year more out of not having anything at the position but is he worth the money? If for $10M you can add Hooper and drop Kroft you have to do that in a heartbeat. Hooper can put up Kroft numbers with his eyes closed. He is a guy you line up outside and its like having another WR out there. I dont know if we could get him, but if you can that is a swap you better make. 

Yeah Sportrac is saying 5 year $50 million but well see. I'd take your scenario we're it the case but I think they like Knox as their #1. I just think they are going to put their money on signing our own and   some midling depth players for competition. 

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Cutting Star makes on sence this year 7.8 dead to save 2.2.  Some people are acting like he cant play.  If he could be replaced for 2.2 great, but I would bet it would take 5 plus to replace him.  2021 it could become a serious conversation with a 5 million savings.  

 

Cutting a FB to save 1.8 when not up against the cap?  Considering his special teams play, it could be difficult to to replace him and save something.  

 

If looking for cap casualties that look to make sence I see only 3 at this time Kroft saving 5 with 1.6 dead, Murphy saving 7 with 1.75 dead and Nsekhe saving 3.7 with 1.5 dead.  Not saying they all should be cut but they free up enough to help bring in some upgrades at their position.  

 

It seem like many are quick to want to cut a guy when the replacement is not on the horizon.  

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59 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I agree.  Plus a bunch of players are due roster bonuses in March.  That includes Star ($1M), Murphy ($500k),  Kroft ($750k+$2M of salary guarantees). Lee Smith ($500k), Hauschka ($250k), Yeldon ($150k) and Roberts ($100k).  


Of that group, Kroft is the guy I see released before that bonus is due.  His contract is ridiculous for his meager contribution.  I’d expect the rest to be here next season. 

 

Long has a contract with team options for this year and next.  It’s doubtful that this one will be picked up unless Morse has a horrible offseason injury before mid-March.  I still don’t understand why he got that contract with the Morse signing.  It seemed excessive as insurance. 

Long signed before free agency started because he was released. The Bills wouldn't have known at the time who they would be able to sign, including Morse. Plus he offers positional flexibility because he can play any interior spot.

 

I think he's a valuable backup. But I'm not sure if his contract is favorable or not for such a role.

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45 minutes ago, MJS said:

Long signed before free agency started because he was released. The Bills wouldn't have known at the time who they would be able to sign, including Morse. Plus he offers positional flexibility because he can play any interior spot.

 

I think he's a valuable backup. But I'm not sure if his contract is favorable or not for such a role.

 

Long is fundamentally getting paid peanuts for a decent OLman to keep around as insurance - $1.55M this year.  That's like Bodine bucks.  He's got a bunch of per-game roster and incentive bonuses that give him a higher cap number.  Given that it's relatively cheap, even if they bring in some competition to camp or draft a guy, I think Long makes sense to keep around as a quality backup.

 

He's listed as a C; he clearly lost the backup C job to Jon Feliciano, but he's an ideal backup because as you note, he can play all 3 interior positions.

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With the current state of the roster, I don’t think there’s any ‘expected’ cuts.  

 

That being said, i wouldn’t be surprised if Murphy, Kroft, Long or Barkley got cut. 

 

Anyone outside of that would surprise me. 

 

People need to realize that Star isn’t going anywhere until next offseason.  He’s more valuable than the amount of cap he would save us at this point. It’s next offseason where the dead cap really really drops off and then he becomes more expendable. 

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Pat Dimcarco ($2.35M cap hit / $500k dead cap)

 

Why does everyone want to cut this guy? Do they want to do away with the position? Have Yeldon block for the run? It isn't like he's breaking the bank. Just like Andre Roberts, he fits a role, gets paid little, and does his job. 

 

1579672917112.jpg

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18 hours ago, ngbills said:

Kroft is making over $6M per. He has only had one productive year in his career. I think they signed him last year more out of not having anything at the position but is he worth the money? If for $10M you can add Hooper and drop Kroft you have to do that in a heartbeat. Hooper can put up Kroft numbers with his eyes closed. He is a guy you line up outside and its like having another WR out there. I dont know if we could get him, but if you can that is a swap you better make. 

 

Cutting Kroft only makes sense IF you can actually sign Hooper plus a quality veteran WR.   Otherwise, Kroft can remain useful in multiple TE passing sets that are becoming popular.   Allen needs some bigger targets, and if healthy, Kroft can be one. 

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11 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Cutting Kroft only makes sense IF you can actually sign Hooper plus a quality veteran WR.   Otherwise, Kroft can remain useful in multiple TE passing sets that are becoming popular.   Allen needs some bigger targets, and if healthy, Kroft can be one. 

At his price that is too high to be just useful in multi TE sets. There just seems to be better options - if you can get Hooper or Hunter great. If not then you can find someone to go along with Knox, Sweeney, and Smith or Croom. What upgrade is Kroft really providing to that group? His best year he caught 40 balls for 400 yds. Every other year - 11, 10, 4, and 6 rec's. You dont need to spend $6M on a guy that will catch 10 balls all season.

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17 hours ago, ngbills said:

At his price that is too high to be just useful in multi TE sets. There just seems to be better options - if you can get Hooper or Hunter great. If not then you can find someone to go along with Knox, Sweeney, and Smith or Croom. What upgrade is Kroft really providing to that group? His best year he caught 40 balls for 400 yds. Every other year - 11, 10, 4, and 6 rec's. You dont need to spend $6M on a guy that will catch 10 balls all season.

 

Kroft was plagued by injury most of the season IIRC, a "high ankle sprain" I think, which seems to be an injury that takes a while to recover from.   He only played in 11 games, starting 3.  If he can stay healthy and contribute like so many TEs are doing these days, $6 million would be cheap, so I think that the Bills should give him at through TC to prove he can earn his pay, even if they were to sign somebody like Hooper. 

 

Why are you -- and others -- so worried about Terry Pegula's wallet that you want to cut players when they don't need to be cut just to save relatively few dollars?  There's not some unwritten law somewhere that says that the Bills are only allowed to have 1 good starting-caliber WR or TE or RB, but that seems to be what many Bills fans assume. You cannot build a perennial playoff team with real Super Bowl aspirations by surrounding a few quality players with bottom feeder talent, and good/decent talent costs more than poor talent.  I'm sure the DeBartolo/York or Hunt families aren't quibbling about their profit margins right now.

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On 1/17/2020 at 1:26 PM, Rc2catch said:

I think the surprise is NOBODY gets cut. 
It’s possible everyone currently under contract makes it to preseason. 

You don’t cut players until someone steps up and takes their job unless you need the money. We do not. 
Might as well load up in the draft, sign who we are going to sign between our guys and free agents. Let the best battle it out. 
Once you have a good idea of your top 53 you can dangle guys for draft picks, trade them for possible depth players, or just outright cut them. What’s the rush to get them off the team? 

Yeah, I don't get the hate. I'm not familiar with player contracts and certain cut designations and what not, but why would you devoid your team of talent, instead of just improving the talent. Like, why would you cut guys before camp? Let them all compete and may the best guy make the roster. That's how you create depth and a consistently winning football team. Especially when you start drafting toward the end of rounds. 

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18 hours ago, ngbills said:

At his price that is too high to be just useful in multi TE sets. There just seems to be better options - if you can get Hooper or Hunter great. If not then you can find someone to go along with Knox, Sweeney, and Smith or Croom. What upgrade is Kroft really providing to that group? His best year he caught 40 balls for 400 yds. Every other year - 11, 10, 4, and 6 rec's. You dont need to spend $6M on a guy that will catch 10 balls all season.

Kroft had 14 targets for the season. 
Why is that? 
Is he never open? 
Are they only using Knox as the receiving tight end? 
Kroft is quite big would he not be useful in the red zone? 
Why do you care how much money he makes? 
Keeping him does not hinder any other signings the team wants to make, nor does it hinder any draft prospect they may want to draft. 
They are not signing all the top free agents they don’t need to clear more money off the books do they? What hurt does it cause to take Kroft to camp and possibly into the regular season? They signed Kroft to a nice contract in case they didn’t get much talent for the position, he was hurt and Knox kind of flashed some serious mismatch talent. I could see the argument Knox made him expendable and no longer needed, but then why would you sign another big money free agent tight end to hinder knoxs development? 

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On 1/21/2020 at 10:20 PM, Paulus said:

Pat Dimcarco ($2.35M cap hit / $500k dead cap)

 

Why does everyone want to cut this guy? Do they want to do away with the position? Have Yeldon block for the run? It isn't like he's breaking the bank. Just like Andre Roberts, he fits a role, gets paid little, and does his job. 

 

1579672917112.jpg

You could use an extra TE to block (like Sweeney....who frankly deserved more playing time)

 

And put bigger WR's on the field that can block

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On 1/21/2020 at 6:27 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

Long is fundamentally getting paid peanuts for a decent OLman to keep around as insurance - $1.55M this year.  That's like Bodine bucks.  He's got a bunch of per-game roster and incentive bonuses that give him a higher cap number.  Given that it's relatively cheap, even if they bring in some competition to camp or draft a guy, I think Long makes sense to keep around as a quality backup.

 

He's listed as a C; he clearly lost the backup C job to Jon Feliciano, but he's an ideal backup because as you note, he can play all 3 interior positions.

Except Long ISN'T paid peanuts.   His contract is ~$4.2 mil per year.   He was definitely an overpay for insurance.   We did a couple overpays this offseason to make sure that we could field a full and competent team.   And it worked.   

 

We were desperately short of NFL talent in a few areas and "overpaid" a couple times to fix it.  I don't mind some (minor) overpays here and there because it does work to get a guy.  Money talks.

 

Long was an early signee and offered us significant flexibility as an experienced C and G.

Similarly we overpaid for Morse (largest C contract in NFL) who's good not not phenomenal.  

We had nothing at TE and Kroft showed potential with one very solid year.  With a thin free agent pool we gave him an overpay.

 

What I liked from Bean was that he attempted to fix weak areas with MORE than one guy. Yes an overpay, but also other alternatives if that overpay didn't work out.  All to often in our past, we've paid big money for a player and hoped he was good enough.  (spoiler alert: he often wasn't).  Derrek Dockery anyone?      

 

We brought in 157 new Offensive Linemen.   Okay maybe only 9.

We brought in 3 new TE (Kroft, Lee, + high draft pick Knox)

Heck even at WR, we brought in 2 major signings to go with our hopefuls (new guy Duke Williams, old el-busto Zay Jones, optimistic Robert Foster).   Too bad none of the hopefuls worked out.

 

To me it has felt like we've really have brought in insurance AND competition for spots.  Not just assumed that the guy with the biggest contract was going to be the guy going forward. 

 

I like it.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rc2catch said:

Kroft had 14 targets for the season. 
Why is that? 
Is he never open? 
Are they only using Knox as the receiving tight end? 
Kroft is quite big would he not be useful in the red zone? 
Why do you care how much money he makes? 
Keeping him does not hinder any other signings the team wants to make, nor does it hinder any draft prospect they may want to draft. 
They are not signing all the top free agents they don’t need to clear more money off the books do they? What hurt does it cause to take Kroft to camp and possibly into the regular season? They signed Kroft to a nice contract in case they didn’t get much talent for the position, he was hurt and Knox kind of flashed some serious mismatch talent. I could see the argument Knox made him expendable and no longer needed, but then why would you sign another big money free agent tight end to hinder knoxs development? 

 

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Kroft was plagued by injury most of the season IIRC, a "high ankle sprain" I think, which seems to be an injury that takes a while to recover from.   He only played in 11 games, starting 3.  If he can stay healthy and contribute like so many TEs are doing these days, $6 million would be cheap, so I think that the Bills should give him at through TC to prove he can earn his pay, even if they were to sign somebody like Hooper. 

 

Why are you -- and others -- so worried about Terry Pegula's wallet that you want to cut players when they don't need to be cut just to save relatively few dollars?  There's not some unwritten law somewhere that says that the Bills are only allowed to have 1 good starting-caliber WR or TE or RB, but that seems to be what many Bills fans assume. You cannot build a perennial playoff team with real Super Bowl aspirations by surrounding a few quality players with bottom feeder talent, and good/decent talent costs more than poor talent.  I'm sure the DeBartolo/York or Hunt families aren't quibbling about their profit margins right now.

If your going after Hooper or Henry then you are moving on from Kroft. You dont allocate your salary with over $20M to TE's.

 

If you believe in Know then what is left for Kroft? Know makes Kroft expendable.

 

My view is you need to upgrade from Know and Kroft with a Hooper or Henry. Knox can still have a significant role along with a more legit weapon at TE.

 

Money paid to a player impacts what other players can be brought in. I dont care about the actual money the Pegulas spend or make. Its about the construction of the roster of the Bills. I am lobbying to save to spend more. Not save so the Pegulas can buy another jet or whatever. Not sure where anything I am saying leads one to believe I want bottom level talent. I would say keeping Kroft and Smith over going after Hooper is more along the bottom feeder mentality. 

 

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001098424/article/falcons-trudging-along-in-austin-hooper-negotiations

 

"The reality of right now is we are trudging along," Falcons general manager Thomas Dimitroff said Tuesday, per the team's website. "After the Super Bowl week, we'll continue to see how we're moving forward. At this point, there's no updates on Austin."

 

 

Jesse James received $22.6 million over four years and $10.5 million guaranteed at signing from Detroit, and Jared Cook signed a two-year deal in New Orleans with an average annual value of $7.5 million in 2019. Given his youth and production, Hooper should see more than that.

 

Atlanta could choose to place an estimated $11 million franchise tag on Hooper, but that seems unlikely. The highest-paid tight end in 2020 is currently slated to be Jimmy Graham in Green Bay ($10M).

 

It is an easy choice to move on from Kroft. With most of our signings last offseason, we structured the contracts so easy to get out of and this is one where we should.

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I honestly don't really know how good Hooper is.  He can catch, but can he block?  I don't really want a slot receiver disguised as a TE.

 

But I do know that I'd LOVE to have Knox my TE2 paired with a fantastic TE1.   If we had two very good two way TEs?  Man... That's one way to thrive.

 

If one is available for only 3m more expensive than Kroft?  SIGN ME UP!

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