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Stallions

Is Josh really getting the coaching he needs?

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Is there any doubt in your mind that Josh needs more practical, game relevant PRACTICE??  There should be no melt-down events in any game if he’s totally prepared to play the position.  I’ve seen that type of play from Rob, J.P. and EJ.  It’s a red flag for even the rawest rookie.

Where is Allen’s QB coach Ken Dorsey?  He supposedly helped Cam Newton with the Panthers. 

Josh has been working for 2 years in CA with Jordan Palmer’s private Company “QB Summit”.  They stress footwork and include ‘yoga on the beach’!!  Jordan Palmer completed 11 passes in the NFL career and is really a spiritual guru rather than a coach/trainer.   Josh has said he’s going back for a 3rd year.

 

Per Jordan’s web-site:

 

The quarterback rooms I’ve been in have been filled with names such as Jason Campbell, Jay Cutler, Blaine Gabbert, Chad Henne, Carson Palmer, EJ Manuel, Josh Mccown, Jimmy Clausen and many others. I’ve lifted with linemen, ran with wideouts and studied with coaches. The experiences I’ve gained over my career have shaped me into the coach I am today.  The emotional side of the game is the common thread that is woven into every aspect of the QB position. We help QBs to self-generate confidence, handle success and adversity, and challenge themselves to use their platform for good.

 

Personally, I think it’s all BS! 

Edited by Stallions
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3 minutes ago, Stallions said:

Is there any doubt in your mind that Josh needs more practical, game relevant PRACTICE??  There should be no melt-down events in any game if he’s totally prepared to play the position.  I’ve seen that type of play from Rob, J.P. and EJ.  It’s a red flag for even the rawest rookie.

Where is Allen’s QB coach Ken Dorsey?  He supposedly helped Cam Newton with the Panthers. 

Josh has been working for 2 years in CA with Jordan Palmer’s private Company “QB Summit”.  They stress footwork and include ‘yoga on the beach’!!  Jordan Palmer completed 11 passes in the NFL career and is really a spiritual guru rather than a coach/trainer.   Josh has said he’s going back for a 3rd year.

 

Per Jordan’s web-site:

 

The quarterback rooms I’ve been in have been filled with names such as Jason Campbell, Jay Cutler, Blaine Gabbert, Chad Henne, Carson Palmer, EJ Manuel, Josh Mccown, Jimmy Clausen and many others. I’ve lifted with linemen, ran with wideouts and studied with coaches. The experiences I’ve gained over my career have shaped me into the coach I am today.  The emotional side of the game is the common thread that is woven into every aspect of the QB position. We help QBs to self-generate confidence, handle success and adversity, and challenge themselves to use their platform for good.

 

Personally, I think it’s all BS! 

 

 

Unfortunately Bills fans have become so fixated on the robotic, hyper-efficient Tom Brady and his years of making very few mistakes that we sometimes don't realize that a lot of tremendous QB's make bad decisions when they are trying to carry a team on their back.     

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The coaching staff failed Josh Allen in that 2nd half. The Bills were up 16-0 and Josh  still threw it 46 times. He’s not that type of QB and he never will be IMO. His usage rate is way too high.

 

Josh attempts should be no higher than 25-30. Get that run game going with Singletary and make him the focal point of the offense. That will open up the play action and can we please put some screens in the playbook!!  

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20 minutes ago, Stallions said:

Is there any doubt in your mind that Josh needs more practical, game relevant PRACTICE??  There should be no melt-down events in any game if he’s totally prepared to play the position.  I’ve seen that type of play from Rob, J.P. and EJ.  It’s a red flag for even the rawest rookie.

Where is Allen’s QB coach Ken Dorsey?  He supposedly helped Cam Newton with the Panthers. 

Josh has been working for 2 years in CA with Jordan Palmer’s private Company “QB Summit”.  They stress footwork and include ‘yoga on the beach’!!  Jordan Palmer completed 11 passes in the NFL career and is really a spiritual guru rather than a coach/trainer.   Josh has said he’s going back for a 3rd year.

 

Per Jordan’s web-site:

 

The quarterback rooms I’ve been in have been filled with names such as Jason Campbell, Jay Cutler, Blaine Gabbert, Chad Henne, Carson Palmer, EJ Manuel, Josh Mccown, Jimmy Clausen and many others. I’ve lifted with linemen, ran with wideouts and studied with coaches. The experiences I’ve gained over my career have shaped me into the coach I am today.  The emotional side of the game is the common thread that is woven into every aspect of the QB position. We help QBs to self-generate confidence, handle success and adversity, and challenge themselves to use their platform for good.

 

Personally, I think it’s all BS! 

 

So the 2nd year QB who is tied with Russel Wilson for most 4th quarter comeback wins (despite playing or finishing 7 less games than Wilson over that span) and now a guy who "melts down"?  LMAO.  The same QB who was the third highest rated QB in the 4th quarter in the entire NFL this year?  The same guy who after the first NE game went on to have a 21-3 TD:Turnover ratio to finish the season?  The same guy who despite being royally screwed by the refs late in the playoff game had us in position to win the game still?  

 

Geezus, where do you people come up with this stuff?

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24 minutes ago, Stallions said:

Is there any doubt in your mind that Josh needs more practical, game relevant PRACTICE??  There should be no melt-down events in any game if he’s totally prepared to play the position.  I’ve seen that type of play from Rob, J.P. and EJ.  It’s a red flag for even the rawest rookie.

Where is Allen’s QB coach Ken Dorsey?  He supposedly helped Cam Newton with the Panthers. 

Josh has been working for 2 years in CA with Jordan Palmer’s private Company “QB Summit”.  They stress footwork and include ‘yoga on the beach’!!  Jordan Palmer completed 11 passes in the NFL career and is really a spiritual guru rather than a coach/trainer.   Josh has said he’s going back for a 3rd year.

 

Per Jordan’s web-site:

 

The quarterback rooms I’ve been in have been filled with names such as Jason Campbell, Jay Cutler, Blaine Gabbert, Chad Henne, Carson Palmer, EJ Manuel, Josh Mccown, Jimmy Clausen and many others. I’ve lifted with linemen, ran with wideouts and studied with coaches. The experiences I’ve gained over my career have shaped me into the coach I am today.  The emotional side of the game is the common thread that is woven into every aspect of the QB position. We help QBs to self-generate confidence, handle success and adversity, and challenge themselves to use their platform for good.

 

Personally, I think it’s all BS! 


Allen works with Palmer in the offseason when, per NFL rules, regular coaches don’t have contact with players. Not sure what else he’s supposed to do.

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Josh will be fine. He had a few wild moments, but didn’t “ melt down” and didn’t cost the team the game. The 2nd half strategy was bizarre , and he made some mistakes. Heck, Darnold played at USC and “ saw ghosts”. No one’s ragging on him anymore for that, and they give him a huge pass because he had mono. JA is still a bit raw, and the coaches hung him out to dry with that lead. 

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Someone needs to sit down and go over game situations and clock management with Josh. That’s not a joke and it needs to happen. He needs to know when you can’t huddle, when you can’t afford to check to a run, when you can’t take a sack, when you throw the ball away and when you can’t rush a fumble with silly runs.

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29 minutes ago, Stallions said:

Is there any doubt in your mind that Josh needs more practical, game relevant PRACTICE??  There should be no melt-down events in any game if he’s totally prepared to play the position.  I’ve seen that type of play from Rob, J.P. and EJ.  It’s a red flag for even the rawest rookie.

Where is Allen’s QB coach Ken Dorsey?  He supposedly helped Cam Newton with the Panthers. 

Josh has been working for 2 years in CA with Jordan Palmer’s private Company “QB Summit”.  They stress footwork and include ‘yoga on the beach’!!  Jordan Palmer completed 11 passes in the NFL career and is really a spiritual guru rather than a coach/trainer.   Josh has said he’s going back for a 3rd year.

 

Per Jordan’s web-site:

 

The quarterback rooms I’ve been in have been filled with names such as Jason Campbell, Jay Cutler, Blaine Gabbert, Chad Henne, Carson Palmer, EJ Manuel, Josh Mccown, Jimmy Clausen and many others. I’ve lifted with linemen, ran with wideouts and studied with coaches. The experiences I’ve gained over my career have shaped me into the coach I am today.  The emotional side of the game is the common thread that is woven into every aspect of the QB position. We help QBs to self-generate confidence, handle success and adversity, and challenge themselves to use their platform for good.

 

Personally, I think it’s all BS! 

That isn't exactly a murderer's row of qbs. Obviously between Dorsey and Palmer,  Josh hasn't learned much about ball security,  deep throw trajectory or cover 0. I'd feel better if he'd work with Peyton or even Jim. Besides I think he goes to  SoCal to party with Darnold in Newport.

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19 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

The coaching staff failed Josh Allen in that 2nd half. The Bills were up 16-0 and Josh  still threw it 46 times. He’s not that type of QB and he never will be IMO. His usage rate is way too high.

 

Josh attempts should be no higher than 25-30. Get that run game going with Singletary and make him the focal point of the offense. That will open up the play action and can we please put some screens in the playbook!!  

 

He never will be?

 

I don't know what people base their opinions on anymore. People just speak without thinking. 

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12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

So the 2nd year QB who is tied with Russel Wilson for most 4th quarter comeback wins (despite playing or finishing 7 less games than Wilson over that span) and now a guy who "melts down"?  LMAO.  The same QB who was the third highest rated QB in the 4th quarter in the entire NFL this year?  The same guy who after the first NE game went on to have a 21-3 TD:Turnover ratio to finish the season?  The same guy who despite being royally screwed by the refs late in the playoff game had us in position to win the game still?  

 

Geezus, where do you people come up with this stuff?

I watch games and see reactions! 

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Josh Allen is beginning to remind me of Flutie if Flutie had a bazooka for an arm and grew 7 inches.  

 

But that's how Josh plays.  Unconventional.  And that is ok.  

 

Allen's personality is the anti Flutie.  But I think their style is similar.  And Josh can make more throws that Flutie couldn't. 

 

Thought a lot about this comp yesterday.  

 

I think ultimately Daboll is doing right by his development.  How can this be argued.  The toughest job they seem to have is balancing the gunslinger, and when to gunsling vs when to be smart.  

 

That, and finding WRs over 5'10. 

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5 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Someone needs to sit down and go over game situations and clock management with Josh. That’s not a joke and it needs to happen. He needs to know when you can’t huddle, when you can’t afford to check to a run, when you can’t take a sack, when you throw the ball away and when you can’t rush a fumble with silly runs.

That's what my post was about.  I don't think a lame 'guru' can help.

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Josh Allen is beginning to remind me of Flutie if Flutie had a bazooka for an arm and grew 7 inches.  

 

But that's how Josh plays.  Unconventional.  And that is ok.  

 

Allen's personality is the anti Flutie.  But I think their style is similar.  And Josh can make more throws that Flutie couldn't. 

 

Thought a lot about this comp yesterday.  

 

I think ultimately Daboll is doing right by his development.  How can this be argued.  The toughest job they seem to have is balancing the gunslinger, and when to gunsling vs when to be smart.  

 

That, and finding WRs over 5'10. 

 

when to be smart.   I don't know if 'smart' can be taught?

14 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:


Allen works with Palmer in the offseason when, per NFL rules, regular coaches don’t have contact with players. Not sure what else he’s supposed to do.

Is Palmer the ONLY person in the world he can work with?  Come on - -

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11 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Someone needs to sit down and go over game situations and clock management with Josh  McDermott That’s not a joke and it needs to happen.

 

 

Fixed that 

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47 minutes ago, Stallions said:

Is there any doubt in your mind that Josh needs more practical, game relevant PRACTICE??  There should be no melt-down events in any game if he’s totally prepared to play the position.  I’ve seen that type of play from Rob, J.P. and EJ.  It’s a red flag for even the rawest rookie.

Where is Allen’s QB coach Ken Dorsey?  He supposedly helped Cam Newton with the Panthers. 

Josh has been working for 2 years in CA with Jordan Palmer’s private Company “QB Summit”.  They stress footwork and include ‘yoga on the beach’!!  Jordan Palmer completed 11 passes in the NFL career and is really a spiritual guru rather than a coach/trainer.   Josh has said he’s going back for a 3rd year.

 

Per Jordan’s web-site:

 

The quarterback rooms I’ve been in have been filled with names such as Jason Campbell, Jay Cutler, Blaine Gabbert, Chad Henne, Carson Palmer, EJ Manuel, Josh Mccown, Jimmy Clausen and many others. I’ve lifted with linemen, ran with wideouts and studied with coaches. The experiences I’ve gained over my career have shaped me into the coach I am today.  The emotional side of the game is the common thread that is woven into every aspect of the QB position. We help QBs to self-generate confidence, handle success and adversity, and challenge themselves to use their platform for good.

 

Personally, I think it’s all BS! 

Some of the best coaches weren’t great players. That’s typically how it goes... they have to study and understand certain intricacies to get by in their career and it allows them to be better coaches than players. 

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26 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Allen works with Palmer in the offseason when, per NFL rules, regular coaches don’t have contact with players. Not sure what else he’s supposed to do.

 

Commentary was positive that Allen had improved both footwork and accuracy between his Sr college season and the combine/OTAs and he improved his passer rating to most areas of the field this year.

 

So I would say what he's doing is working. 

 

Could something else/someone else work better?  Dunno.  Would love to know who Lamar Jackson worked with this off-season.

 

Yoga and Pilates are not bad things for football players.  They are arguably good things.  Allen's girlfriend is a Pilates instructor.  I hope Allen brought a notebook and went to Zo and said "tell me everything you do to keep playing the way you do with as much physicality 'cuz I'm gonna need it".

 

14 minutes ago, Stallions said:

That's what my post was about.  I don't think a lame 'guru' can help.

 

when to be smart.   I don't know if 'smart' can be taught?

Is Palmer the ONLY person in the world he can work with?  Come on - -

 

So who do you think he should work with, oh Wise One?

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Some of the best coaches weren’t great players. That’s typically how it goes... they have to study and understand certain intricacies to get by in their career and it allows them to be better coaches than players. 

 

Right On.  People are always "oh, this kid should work with (Kelly, Favre, name a great QB).

 

The thing is, those great players normally don't know how they do what they do.  They can't break it down.

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14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

Right On.  People are always "oh, this kid should work with (Kelly, Favre, name a great QB).

 

The thing is, those great players normally don't know how they do what they do.  They can't break it down.

LOL. Yeah. For some reason, I always envision Elway sitting in his suite wondering why Case Keenum didn't just rifle 50 yard frozen ropes on 3rd and long. "Dude, that guy had half a step 40 yards from the LOS. Just fling it!"

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There’s only a handful of teams in this league that have enjoyed stability at QB for a long period of time the Bills problem is for years they’ve been stuck in a division with Brady and it really has warped the way the fans view the position...if the Bills where in the NFC east instead of the AFC they would have won the division title this year 

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6 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Someone needs to sit down and go over game situations and clock management with Josh. That’s not a joke and it needs to happen. He needs to know when you can’t huddle, when you can’t afford to check to a run, when you can’t take a sack, when you throw the ball away and when you can’t rush a fumble with silly runs.

This is true.

Someone also needs to sit down with Daboll and figure out why there is no safety valves built into play design with regards to pass rush.  No screens. No hot receivers. No running back blocking or releasing to the flats. No slants. Not enough play action. QB draws but few RB draws.

Did they not watch the film from the Baltimore and NE games?

Why did they continue to leave him in an empty backfield to get murdered

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8 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

The coaching staff failed Josh Allen in that 2nd half. The Bills were up 16-0 and Josh  still threw it 46 times. He’s not that type of QB and he never will be IMO. His usage rate is way too high.

 

Josh attempts should be no higher than 25-30. Get that run game going with Singletary and make him the focal point of the offense. That will open up the play action and can we please put some screens in the playbook!!  

What if they can’t get the run game working?  Then what?

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8 hours ago, Stallions said:

Is there any doubt in your mind that Josh needs more practical, game relevant PRACTICE??  There should be no melt-down events in any game if he’s totally prepared to play the position.  I’ve seen that type of play from Rob, J.P. and EJ.  It’s a red flag for even the rawest rookie.

Where is Allen’s QB coach Ken Dorsey?  He supposedly helped Cam Newton with the Panthers. 

Josh has been working for 2 years in CA with Jordan Palmer’s private Company “QB Summit”.  They stress footwork and include ‘yoga on the beach’!!  Jordan Palmer completed 11 passes in the NFL career and is really a spiritual guru rather than a coach/trainer.   Josh has said he’s going back for a 3rd year.

 

Per Jordan’s web-site:

 

The quarterback rooms I’ve been in have been filled with names such as Jason Campbell, Jay Cutler, Blaine Gabbert, Chad Henne, Carson Palmer, EJ Manuel, Josh Mccown, Jimmy Clausen and many others. I’ve lifted with linemen, ran with wideouts and studied with coaches. The experiences I’ve gained over my career have shaped me into the coach I am today.  The emotional side of the game is the common thread that is woven into every aspect of the QB position. We help QBs to self-generate confidence, handle success and adversity, and challenge themselves to use their platform for good.

 

Personally, I think it’s all BS! 

Your first sentence says it all. He needs practice and the coaches are giving it to him even if it decreases their chance of winning. How else can you learn to play vs the elite strength and speed that playoffs bring? This was the most difficult challenge of this young guy's life and the coaches put the game in his hands. He had it won several times, made some mistakes, and overall gained the crucial practice you mentioned. I'm betting everything is going to look slower to Josh going forward and that he will learn to make better decisions and better judgements of the opposing defender's abilities.

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Considering his significant improvement in nearly all if not all of the relevant stats in year two over year one I would say he is getting the coaching he needs. If his 2019 stats were offered as a measuring stone BEFORE the season all would have been well satisfied. Now that the season is over and in retrospect, some claim to have wanted more. He will never satisfy those people who have a Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rogers image in their head because they were conditioned to view those profiles as the standard. Even PFF has had to recalculate the way they view Allen. The Farve model seems to be what we might expect from him moving forward and I would be well satisfied if that ends up happening. If he improves as much in year 3 as he did in year 2 he will silence even more critics. He will never silence them all. Too many have much invested in his demise, along with many on this forum.

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Keep in mind Josh Allen is a young man learning on the job on how to be a professional football player. In some ways, he's no different from an employer bringing on a talented high school grad or college grad to work in the office or the shop.  You might have the most talented carpenter prodigy in seven counties worth of vocational schools.  However, he's still going to struggle.  You have to hone the talent into skill, and experience removes hesitation and promotes confidence.  

 

A lot of the teachable moments will come through failure and often under pressure.  

 

I think the wildcard game against the Texans was an amazing teaching opportunity and a lesson in adversity. He will progress because of it.  

 

Same really goes for Ford, Knox, Oliver.  I expect all of the rookies to be more polished in year two, doing a lot less dumb things.  

 

 

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4 minutes ago, dpberr said:

Keep in mind Josh Allen is a young man learning on the job on how to be a professional football player. In some ways, he's no different from an employer bringing on a talented high school grad or college grad to work in the office or the shop.  You might have the most talented carpenter prodigy in seven counties worth of vocational schools.  However, he's still going to struggle.  You have to hone the talent into skill, and experience removes hesitation and promotes confidence.  

 

A lot of the teachable moments will come through failure and often under pressure.  

 

I think the wildcard game against the Texans was an amazing teaching opportunity and a lesson in adversity. He will progress because of it.  

 

Same really goes for Ford, Knox, Oliver.  I expect all of the rookies to be more polished in year two, doing a lot less dumb things.  

 

 

Totally agree.  Not playing in a major college program, Josh never got any real coaching until he hit the NFL-- same is true for Oliver.  That's why he was a project as he had no real training to play the most difficult position in sports.  Given where he started, the kid has made remarkable strides, and I can't understand how some   people can't see this.  I've watched this team for 45 years, and I know a fraud from the real deal, and Allen is the real deal.  His athletic ability, combined with his intelligence, determination to win, heart and charisma give him everything he needs to be great.  For those that can't see that, you will eventually.  He'll be more than good enough to win a SB if the rest of the team has sufficient talent.  I know we live in a world of instant results and gratification, but that's not how it was ever going to be with Josh.    

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9 hours ago, Stallions said:

Is there any doubt in your mind that Josh needs more practical, game relevant PRACTICE??  There should be no melt-down events in any game if he’s totally prepared to play the position.  I’ve seen that type of play from Rob, J.P. and EJ.  It’s a red flag for even the rawest rookie.

Where is Allen’s QB coach Ken Dorsey?  He supposedly helped Cam Newton with the Panthers. 

Josh has been working for 2 years in CA with Jordan Palmer’s private Company “QB Summit”.  They stress footwork and include ‘yoga on the beach’!!  Jordan Palmer completed 11 passes in the NFL career and is really a spiritual guru rather than a coach/trainer.   Josh has said he’s going back for a 3rd year.

 

 

So our QB spends his off season continuing to try and get better and hires a private coach to help him continue to improve and that's a bad thing? Consider the alternative, he could spend the off season filming commercials for Progressive, Hulu, etc... 

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