PolishPrince Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 38 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: Let’s not cry about this call... There are a few other ones that were worse which one is worse than taking away 6 automatic points because "this is what player MEANT to do" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, PolishPrince said: which one is worse than taking away 6 automatic points because "this is what player MEANT to do" Because it happens every game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Aussie Joe said: Because it happens every game ? where a player doesnt give himself up, throws the ball for a TD to opposing team, and even the ref looking RIGHT AT HIM, got out of way of the tossed ball because he never gave himself up? I've never seen it. I saw Roberts do the same arm motion, then take a knee in endzone after catching it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, PolishPrince said: ? where a player doesnt give himself up, throws the ball for a TD to opposing team, and even the ref looking RIGHT AT HIM, got out of way of the tossed ball because he never gave himself up? I've never seen it. I saw Roberts do the same arm motion, then take a knee in endzone after catching it That's because he wasn't even calling a fair catch. He was signaling to his own team that arm motion saying he wants coming out. It should have been a TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, PolishPrince said: ? where a player doesnt give himself up, throws the ball for a TD to opposing team, and even the ref looking RIGHT AT HIM, got out of way of the tossed ball because he never gave himself up? I've never seen it. I saw Roberts do the same arm motion, then take a knee in endzone after catching it How does he not give himself up? He throws the ball to the ref... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bermuda Triangle Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 These refs in the black jackets - are they instructed or authorized to run onto the field and put in their .02 whenever they see fit? I can't say that I've ever seen that happen before. And the ref in the EZ danced away from the ball after the returner tossed it in his direction. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said: That's because he wasn't even calling a fair catch. He was signaling to his own team that arm motion saying he wants coming out. It should have been a TD. This is my point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassHog Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, Aireskoi said: This play comes to mind...guess the ball is dead now a days? I know it's not a kickoff return, but what's the diff... Great example! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said: How does he not give himself up? He throws the ball to the ref... I cant tell if this is sarcasm... he is walking forward and tosses ball to ref. Where in the rules is this giving yourself up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocbillsfan1 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 45 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Did you get the memo? This is the part where we Bills fans B word about the officiating and discuss how it resulted in us losing. Again. Maybe because it actually mattered ahole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, PolishPrince said: I cant tell if this is sarcasm... he is walking forward and tosses ball to ref. Where in the rules is this giving yourself up? What does the rule say? If he is not “giving himself up” then he is not advancing the ball.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennstate10 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 How are the Bills to know this isn't a trick play? Where a dude on the rec ieving team is going to pick up the ball and run for a TD? Sort of like this pla y we all know? lookit, clearly the Houston KR made a mistake. So did josh Allen when he didn't tuck the ball as he was going down. By rule, it was a cheap TD for the Bills. I,m really disappointed that McD let that go. You can be sure that Bellicheck,k who knows the rules backwards and forwards, wouldn't have let that go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 46 minutes ago, row_33 said: He clearly surrendered the return, under the new rules the play was dead the intent was him surrendering himself. Remember you don’t even have to catch a ball if it hit in the end zone to even have a touch back. this rule will be adjusted so this doesn’t even come up again. A player catches a KO and tosses the ball down is a touchback if no other move is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, PolishPrince said: This is my point... I know. I was agreeing with you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: Because it happens every game No it lost certainly ***** does not 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said: What does the rule say? If he is not “giving himself up” then he is not advancing the ball.. I posted the rules. There is no "giving yourself up." You either down the ball or its in play. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said: I posted the rules. There is no "giving yourself up." You either down the ball or its in play. So does this apply to turnovers as well? Wasnt their a similar situation at the end of the Bengals game this year when when Tre intercepted the ball at the end, wasn’t touched and ran out there back of his own end zone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak-O Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Remember when the Bills didn't pick up the ball in the endzone after a kickoff and the other team jumped on it for a TD? Clearly they MEANT to pick upp the ball. How could the refs not recognize that?! Sure, they didn't actually pick up the ball as the rules say, but they meant to. At least they didn't mean for the other team to score, so it definitely shouldn't have counted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: How does he not give himself up? He throws the ball to the ref... By rule that isnt giving yourself up. Giving youself up requires going to ground and not trying to advance football. Say a player catches the ball from QB and immediately doesnt tosses ball to ref thats a fumble. Thats not giving youself up. That why QBs slide a QB just cant stop a play and toss ball to an official. You have to give yourself up by going to the ground 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocbillsfan1 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 The rules are the rules people arguing against this have never played competitive sports. You play by the rules 100%. Anything else is straight up bull####. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Kmart128 said: By rule that isnt giving yourself up. Giving youself up requires going to ground and not trying to advance football. Say a player catches the ball from QB and immediately doesnt tosses ball to ref thats a fumble. Thats not giving youself up. That why QBs slide a QB just cant stop a play and toss ball to an official. You have to give yourself up by going to the ground So my example about the Tre interception at the end of the Bengals game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) It should of been a touchdown; had he not fielded the ball and waived it off then fine. But he caught it, walked forward and flipped it to the ref. That is by rule a fumble and not giving yourself up. Tre's pick in the endzone is giving yourself up. He just laid on the ground/ ran out the back. That is clear cut. There is no questioning his intention on the play as he doesn't go forward to advance the ball. Edited January 5, 2020 by thewookie1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopreme Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 NFL wanted the Texans and their golden boy to win, plain and simple. Those guys on the sidelines were the enforcers who made sure it happened. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, thewookie1 said: It should of been a touchdown; had he not fielded the ball and waived it off then fine. But he caught it, walked forward and flipped it to the ref. That is by rule a fumble and not giving yourself up. Tre's pick in the endzone is giving yourself up. He just laid on the ground/ ran out the back. That is clear cut. But according to Scott1975 who posted the rule, there is no giving yourself up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMaster Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said: Because he clearly gave himself up and that would have been the most horrendous call in the history of the sport, just my opinion though. But yet a blindside block that wasn't really a blindside block is ok in overtime when it completely changes the complexion and possibly the outcome of the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: So does this apply to turnovers as well? Wasnt their a similar situation at the end of the Bengals game this year when when Tre intercepted the ball at the end, wasn’t touched and ran out there back of his own end zone? Don't know. I'll see if I can find the rules on that tomorrow. I believe it would be different though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Aussie Joe said: But according to Scott1975 who posted the rule, there is no giving yourself up.. If he ran out the back then he cannot be anything but out of bounds for a touchback. If he lays there until an opposing player touches him its a touchback. He didn't stand up and toss the ball to the ref, he didn't run in and out of the endzone. To give up requires 1 of 3 things, a kneel down, a slide, or a refusal to get up while no one is around. A fair catch can also count in most circumstances. The Texans player did none of that, he told his blockers what he was going to do but never gave the ref any reason to rule he'd given himself up. He walked a step forward and then just tossed the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocbillsfan1 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: So my example about the Tre interception at the end of the Bengals game? Tre wasn’t trying to advance the ball are you slow or just an #######? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, thewookie1 said: If he ran out the back then he cannot be anything but out of bounds for a touchback. If he lays there until an opposing player touches him its a touchback. He didn't stand up and toss the ball to the ref, he didn't run in and out of the endzone. To give up requires 1 of 3 things, a kneel down, a slide, or a refusal to get up while no one is around. A fair catch can also count in most circumstances. The Texans player did none of that, he told his blockers what he was going to do but never gave the ref any reason to rule he'd given himself up. He walked a step forward and then just tossed the ball. So if he runs out the back of the end zone, isn’t that a safety and the Bills punting it back? See, my take is that if you are throwing the ball to the ref, then you are “giving up”.. Can we at least agree the rule seems pretty subjective and might need to be more definitive? Just now, Rocbillsfan1 said: Tre wasn’t trying to advance the ball are you slow or just an #######? How is the Texans player trying to advance the ball by throwing it to the ref? Go forth and self multiply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocbillsfan1 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Aussie Joe said: So if he runs out the back of the end zone, isn’t that a safety and the Bills punting it back? See, my take is that if you are throwing the ball to the ref, then you are “giving up”.. Can we at least agree the rule seems pretty subjective and might need to be more definitive? No rules are rules I don’t give a dam about your opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Aussie Joe said: So if he runs out the back of the end zone, isn’t that a safety and the Bills punting it back? See, my take is that if you are throwing the ball to the ref, then you are “giving up”.. Can we at least agree the rule seems pretty subjective and might need to be more definitive? No, he intercepted inside the endzone. As long as he doesn't leave the endzone he can go out of bounds anywhere for a touchback. If he ran it out to the 1 and then back into the endzone that would be a safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMaster Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 29 minutes ago, Scott7975 said: Im not really all that upset by it but for the sake of discussion these are the rules... ARTICLE 5. FREE KICK CROSSES GOAL LINE It is a touchback, if a free kick: touches the ground in the end zone before being touched by the receiving team. goes out of bounds behind the receiving team’s goal line; strikes the receiving team’s goal post, uprights, or cross bar; or is downed in the end zone by the receiving team. The ball was never downed. It technically should have been called a TD Bills according to the rules. Waving your arms and tossing the ball is not downing the ball. There is nothing in the rules that says "obviously giving yourself up" can be used to make the call. The rule is you have to down the ball. This is all you need to see. Dont give me the common sense prevails thing. Rules are rules for a reason and the returner didn't follow them. Mistakes are why games are lost, and that was a huge mistake by an idiot that didn't know the rules or just decided not to abide by them. Either way it should've been enforced. To change this is the refs not following the rules, so now when Ford gets called for a BS blindside block that really wasn't, that should now be looked at as something they maybe shouldn't have called...see how that works. But it didn't, and there will be no repercussions for the refs that clearly botched following the rules which is their job. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, thewookie1 said: No, he intercepted inside the endzone. As long as he doesn't leave the endzone he can go out of bounds anywhere for a touchback. If he ran it out to the 1 and then back into the endzone that would be a safety. He intercepts at the 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 18 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: So my example about the Tre interception at the end of the Bengals game? Exactly... in Tre situation he went down stayed down. And then got back up and ran backwards instead advancing. By rule that is giving yourself up. Tossing the ball to an offical does not qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 People are reaching here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: He intercepts at the 10 Now that I have reviewed the play, the ref blows the play dead. You can see the ref behind the play holding his hand up with his whistle in his mouth marking the turnover's spot. Had the endzone ref or another ref blown the play dead then this would be null and void. Since the the play was not blown dead its a live ball until a whistle blows it dead. Hell, they could of said they had the intent to blow the play dead and that would of been the end of it. They worsened the situation by saying that after a discussion they were overturning the call on the field which was a touchdown. Not only did they give no legitimate reason for the overturn but also ignored the fact it had been ruled a TD on the field which would require a Booth Review as all scoring plays are reviewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Bills Fan Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 My opinion is that it should have been a touchback but by the letter of the rule it’s a live ball. But once you make the td call, you can’t reverse it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Bangarang said: People are reaching here. I‘m not sweating that call one way or the other, mostly because it’s more evidence that the nfl officiating crews could $&#@ up a wet dream. The on-field official made the call, correctly by the rule it would seem. There is no doubt of the intent of the returner, but when 4 or 5 calls (or calls not made at all) go against you in the final 15-20 minutes of the game, it’s pretty natural to think “Oh, so now we’re calling it based on the intentions of the player v the rule.”. besides, intent rarely seems to matter to the officiating crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, thewookie1 said: Now that I have reviewed the play, the ref blows the play dead. You can see the ref behind the play holding his hand up with his whistle in his mouth marking the turnover's spot. Had the endzone ref or another ref blown the play dead then this would be null and void. Since the the play was not blown dead its a live ball until a whistle blows it dead. Hell, they could of said they had the intent to blow the play dead and that would of been the end of it. They worsened the situation by saying that after a discussion they were overturning the call on the field which was a touchdown. Not only did they give no legitimate reason for the overturn but also ignored the fact it had been ruled a TD on the field which would require a Booth Review as all scoring plays are reviewed. Yeah that’s probably fair..The ref does blow his whistle in the Bengals game...but can that be reviewed though? Like I said, can we at least agree the rule is subjective and might need a tighten up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Aussie Joe said: Yeah that’s probably fair..The ref does blow his whistle in the Bengals game...but can that be reviewed though? Like I said, can we at least agree the rule is subjective and might need a tighten up? Oh certainly, they need to clean up that weird oversight but as the law states is how its supposed to be played. Why does the rules bend against us but never for us? Whistles cannot be reviewed to my knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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