Front office incompetence is going to ruin Darnold just like Rosen

[Tcali]

7 hours ago, ALF said:

Good , payback for the cheap hit on Hauschka who has not been the same since. I do not trust Greg Williams for a second.

yep hauschka is a shell of his former self. maybe he will be OK by next fall.That guy shoulda been kicked out of the game for that hit.

I dont even remember a penalty on that

44 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

Darnold will be the Marino to Allen’s Kelly. Darnold will be a good QB. 

i agree. i like both darnold and mayfield.they are both going to be very good. mayfield is already good

[Augie]

12 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

Uhhh, who cares?

 

I care. I care very much about what’s happening with every one of out AFCE opponents. It’s been a big part of the Patriots dominance and home field playoff games for a couple decades. Everyone around them stunk! Darnold’s success, or lack thereof has plenty to do with our future. Is he the next Brady, or the next bust? I care a lot. 

 

If they ruin him, that’s just what bad teams do.

 

 

.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Augie

[Kenosha2Buffalo]

Lol people still talk about Rosen.  news flash if he was any good Miami would have started him 

[whatdrought]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1) still not giving up on Rosen.  His situations have been criminal.  I hope a real franchise gets him and tries to develop him.

 

2) situation absolutely matters.  I think Darnold would be really successful here as well.  I underestimated how terrible of a leader Gase is.  Even though the Bills were an absolute disaster with their offensive decisions for Allen’s rookie, they have done a really good judge this year.  I can’t believe I’m saying this but Buffalo is a good situation for a qb right now.

 

Dude, come on. At some point youre gonna have to take the L with Rosen. Ryan Fitzpatrick has looked really good on a team that Rosen looked like ***** on. He can’t get on the field as a potential franchise QB, instead they’re riding with the 40 year old backup. 

 

You were as hard a “right Josher” as there was around here, but ya gotta let that horse Rest In Peace. 

[Albany,n.y.]

Nobody is ruining Darnold, he is what he is.  Rosen is a bust.  Arizona realized it early & dumped him ASAP.  Miami took a low risk flyer on him, trading their original 2nd rounder & getting 2 2nd rounders back.  

Edited December 7, 2019 by Albany,n.y.

[BurpleBull]

21 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I care. I care very much about what’s happening with every one of out AFCE opponents. It’s been a big part of the Patriots dominance and home field playoff games for a couple decades. Everyone around them stunk! Darnold’s success, or lack thereof has plenty to do with our future. Is he the next Brady, or the next bust? I care a lot. 

 

If they ruin him, that’s just what bad teams do.

 

 

.

He's likely somewhere in the middle...in any case, I'm concerned with the Bills learning to win and sustaining a winning culture.

 

I'm all for a competive division, but if the other teams never show up, oh well, advantage Bills if things go right.   

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1) still not giving up on Rosen.  His situations have been criminal.  I hope a real franchise gets him and tries to develop him.

Well, send him off to the notable ‘QB whisperer’ who’s coaching the Jets.  Failing that, maybe the NFC East could use him. 

[Augie]

37 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

He's likely somewhere in the middle...in any case, I'm concerned with the Bills learning to win and sustaining a winning culture.

 

I'm all for a competive division, but if the other teams never show up, oh well, advantage Bills if things go right.   

 

AMEN on the bold! Now, if we have lots of suckitude all around us, all the better! Nothing like home playoff games! 

 

 

.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Augie

[ToGoGo]

Darnold is good. Don't quit on him yet. He's going to be what Tannehill was supposed to be in our division. Our franchise QB's arch-nemesis. 

[John from Riverside]

In all honesty it carries into this year

 

does anyone remember the name of the dt they drafted ahead of us?     Exactly

 

who is the rookie of the week?    Exactly

 

this is what a well run organization looks like 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

 

Dude, come on. At some point youre gonna have to take the L with Rosen. Ryan Fitzpatrick has looked really good on a team that Rosen looked like ***** on. He can’t get on the field as a potential franchise QB, instead they’re riding with the 40 year old backup. 

 

You were as hard a “right Josher” as there was around here, but ya gotta let that horse Rest In Peace. 

Yeah, I can’t believe I’m willing to say Rosen is a total bust after like 10 games with Arizona and Miami.  Fitz, for as average as he is, is 10 year bet who had 100 qb rating.  
 

he may be a bust. But to conclude that after those two years (he had similar passing numbers to Allen as a rookie) is just stupid and disingenuous. No young qb would have thrived there. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah, I can’t believe I’m willing to say Rosen is a total bust after like 10 games with Arizona and Miami.  Fitz, for as average as he is, is 10 year bet who had 100 qb rating.  
 

he may be a bust. But to conclude that after those two years (he had similar passing numbers to Allen as a rookie) is just stupid and disingenuous. No young qb would have thrived there. 

 

#wrongjosh

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Ha!  I think it speaks volumes but the volumes it speaks is to just what Fitzpatrick has still got "going on".

Fitzmagic is real, and part of it is charisma.  Part of it is football intelligence, and from the sound of it, Rosen had less of that then he thought he did. ?

 

Jordan Palmer, who was beat out by Fitzy in Cincy despite having the "in" of being the starter's blood relative, said "he is one of the hardest guys to compete against in a locker room - because he's so LIKEABLE"

Outside of one season with the Jets, whose playoff chances the Bills ended, Fitz has proven that he’s nothing more than a backup quarterback in this league and that his “magic” is short-lived.  And at his age he is not a quarterback of the future.
 

Rosen on the other hand has the potential to be that and Miami was tanking this season anyway, so if he did play poorly but steadily improved it would tell them if they have their QB or not And gotten a high draft pick next year. Now they still have no idea and will probably have to use a high first round pick after spending a second rounder on Rosen. 

[nickrage]

Good

[Nick the Greek]

17 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I hope Darnold is a slow bust who takes years of that franchises time only to end up being a scrub.

Here’s hoping it’s a S-L-O-W-D-E-A-T-H

 

3 hours ago, Doc said:

Rosen is toast.  The Dols had every reason to play him and opted not to and that should speak volumes.

 

As for the Jets, good luck getting FA's.

It just doesn’t make sense. The fish have to know that Fitz is NOT a long term solution at QB. Why not play the kid? 
 

he really must be bad.

[Madmax09]

Sam Darnold is going to have a career like Andy Dalton. Good enough to keep a starting job but not good enough to win. 

[whatdrought]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah, I can’t believe I’m willing to say Rosen is a total bust after like 10 games with Arizona and Miami.  Fitz, for as average as he is, is 10 year bet who had 100 qb rating.  
 

he may be a bust. But to conclude that after those two years (he had similar passing numbers to Allen as a rookie) is just stupid and disingenuous. No young qb would have thrived there. 

 

Right, and none of the context surrounding him gives any additional information to it. How quickly a team was to take an L on him. How the team that invested in him is already giving up on him. How reports of his work ethic and attitude were terrible followed him past college and into the pro’s.

 

You are right. It is too early to say definitively that he is a bust, so I won’t say that. I will rest easy in my projection that he is going to be a bust and never be anything but a below average starter in this league. Just as I projected pre-draft. 

 

Also, blaming the team for his failure is ridiculous. Allen had it just as bad last year and showed improvement throughout the year (though very marginal) and gave the team something to believe in. Rosen showed enough to get his walking papers.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Madmax09 said:

Sam Darnold is going to have a career like Andy Dalton. Good enough to keep a starting job but not good enough to win. 

 

That’s a pretty good outcome for us. Maybe a little better than I’d like. But It he’s there in 10 years playing average football and never scaring anyone and only being as good as the team around him, that’s pretty good from our perspective. 

Edited December 7, 2019 by whatdrought

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, Doc said:

Outside of one season with the Jets, whose playoff chances the Bills ended, Fitz has proven that he’s nothing more than a backup quarterback in this league and that his “magic” is short-lived.  And at his age he is not a quarterback of the future.
 

Rosen on the other hand has the potential to be that and Miami was tanking this season anyway, so if he did play poorly but steadily improved it would tell them if they have their QB or not And gotten a high draft pick next year. Now they still have no idea and will probably have to use a high first round pick after spending a second rounder on Rosen. 

 

What you say is absolutely correct, what Miami did/is doing made totally no sense.

 

A seasoned veteran who can still play will usually outplay a rookie.  If Fitz had been here last season or early this season, he likely would have been able to outplay Allen!   Remember all the calls for Barkley we were getting?

 

That doesn't mean you shouldn't play the rookie but what I think went on is that with all the player-dumping that went on right up to the trade deadline, Flores was in danger of totally losing the locker room.  The player-dumping meant a constantly changing cast of guys who needed to be told where to line up, what their role was in different protection calls and so forth.  Fitz is totally able to do his part and tell 10 other guys what to do as well at this point.

 

Rosen, probably not so much.

 

Now it might also be possible that Rosen just sucks, I don't know, I'm just giving my understanding of why he might not totally suck and yet still not be playing.

[The Jokeman]

16 hours ago, NickelCity said:

OLine is so, so crucial to a football team. I hope Beane continues to add depth and talent there each year, even if it seems like we're set.

 

Engine of the offense indeed.

Spain's an UFA after this season. I hope we re-sign him and agree need to add depth specifically at OT and maybe C this off-season of course we didn't see much of Waddle and might be a guy to be in the depth mix.

[GG]

FWIW, one of Darnold's starting OLs last year is a backup on the Bills now.  

[Doc]

32 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

What you say is absolutely correct, what Miami did/is doing made totally no sense.

 

A seasoned veteran who can still play will usually outplay a rookie.  If Fitz had been here last season or early this season, he likely would have been able to outplay Allen!   Remember all the calls for Barkley we were getting?

 

That doesn't mean you shouldn't play the rookie but what I think went on is that with all the player-dumping that went on right up to the trade deadline, Flores was in danger of totally losing the locker room.  The player-dumping meant a constantly changing cast of guys who needed to be told where to line up, what their role was in different protection calls and so forth.  Fitz is totally able to do his part and tell 10 other guys what to do as well at this point.

 

Rosen, probably not so much.

 

Now it might also be possible that Rosen just sucks, I don't know, I'm just giving my understanding of why he might not totally suck and yet still not be playing.

 

Fair enough. I still say he's a bust and I'm so glad I was wrong on him and that the Bills didn't take him.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, Doc said:

Fair enough. I still say he's a bust and I'm so glad I was wrong on him and that the Bills didn't take him.

 

I was a "Wrong Josh!"er too

 

Whether or not Allen continues to evolve and works out long term, I will most definitely chow down my helping of "Crow Pie" on that one because the results so far are unambiguous.

 

I will admit I totally did not 'get' the impact of "intangibles" such as being able to lead and inspire teammates to play with him.  Our Josh has that in spades.  Rosen, not so much it would seem.

 

For another, from various things that he's said in interviews, I have the impression that Mr "Most Pro Ready" Rosen actually did not know things this season that you would expect a pro-ready QB who has actually played 13 NFL games to know - how to identify the Mike, how to break down film and prepare during the week, how to read the defense and know where to go with the ball based on what he sees, etc.  Either he had crappy coaching in Arizona (which seems totally possible) or he just didn't know what he didn't know, and that interfered with his ability to learn

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, Tcali said:

i agree. i like both darnold and mayfield.they are both going to be very good. mayfield is already good

 

Would you make that "is already good" if Allen, like Mayfield in his second year, was 33rd in the league in passer rating, 31st in INTs thrown (only one fewer INT than TD thrown), and had seen a 4% drop in completion percentage, a drop from 2 to 1.25 TD per game, and 23 ypg passing between his first and second year?  And this despite much-balleyhooed additions in offensive skill positions and a coaching change that was favored by the QB?

 

I think, were that the case, everyone here would be Mi-tee concerned.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I was a "Wrong Josh!"er too

 

Whether or not Allen continues to evolve and works out long term, I will most definitely chow down my helping of "Crow Pie" on that one because the results so far are unambiguous.

 

I will admit I totally did not 'get' the impact of "intangibles" such as being able to lead and inspire teammates to play with him.  Our Josh has that in spades.  Rosen, not so much it would seem.

 

For another, from various things that he's said in interviews, I have the impression that Mr "Most Pro Ready" Rosen actually did not know things this season that you would expect a pro-ready QB who has actually played 13 NFL games to know - how to identify the Mike, how to break down film and prepare during the week, how to read the defense and know where to go with the ball based on what he sees, etc.  Either he had crappy coaching in Arizona (which seems totally possible) or he just didn't know what he didn't know, and that interfered with his ability to learn

 

I didn't want Allen and wanted Rosen, and was pissed to learn that not only did they draft Allen, but they traded up for him.  I believe I was proven wrong.

 

And if Rosen had shown that he was a leader and any signs of improvement, I think Flores wouldn't have had a mutiny on his hands.  I think they realize they made a mistake a will have to spend a high 1st rounder on a QB next year. 

[Thurman#1]

On 12/8/2019 at 4:27 AM, CincyBillsFan said:

 

And this is why I've been on the Allen train from the start.  He had to overcome a bad situation that management placed him in and he did. 

 

Now the question is whether Darnold can do the same.  I think he can based on what I've seen to date but it's comforting to know our guy already has.

 

 

 

First, he hasn't overcome it yet. It looks increasingly like he will, but the results aren't in yet.

 

Second, it wasn't a particularly bad situation if it only lasts a year or so. Most QBs picked early in the first have worse situations, as they're mostly being picked by crappy teams with bad management. We appear to have good management, at long last.

 

Third, the person who put the Bills in a bad situation was Doug Whaley by putting us in cap hell while only assembling a mediocre roster with no franchise QB. Beane and McDermott have maximized Allen so far. They've done a great job, and that's why he's got pretty good offensive talent around him in his second year and a terrific defense meaning the offense doesn't generally have to score very much.

 

 

I'm no Jets fan but I tend to root for most players early in their careers. Except Patriots. I wish Darnold the best.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 12/7/2019 at 8:15 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Would you make that "is already good" if Allen, like Mayfield in his second year, was 33rd in the league in passer rating, 31st in INTs thrown (only one fewer INT than TD thrown), and had seen a 4% drop in completion percentage, a drop from 2 to 1.25 TD per game, and 23 ypg passing between his first and second year?  And this despite much-balleyhooed additions in offensive skill positions and a coaching change that was favored by the QB?

 

I think, were that the case, everyone here would be Mi-tee concerned.

 

Who needs facts, when there's emoting to do?

 

[CLTbills]

On 12/7/2019 at 12:40 AM, whatdrought said:

I hope Darnold is a slow bust who takes years of that franchises time only to end up being a scrub.

Hell yes. I hope he's Mariota 2.0.

[CLTbills]

On 12/7/2019 at 8:15 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Would you make that "is already good" if Allen, like Mayfield in his second year, was 33rd in the league in passer rating, 31st in INTs thrown (only one fewer INT than TD thrown), and had seen a 4% drop in completion percentage, a drop from 2 to 1.25 TD per game, and 23 ypg passing between his first and second year?  And this despite much-balleyhooed additions in offensive skill positions and a coaching change that was favored by the QB?

 

I think, were that the case, everyone here would be Mi-tee concerned.

That's the biggest thing. Faker has arguably the best group of skill position players in the NFL. Jarvis Landry, OBJ, Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt. Even add in Njoku.

 

Can you think of a team that has more talent at the skill positions than that? I'd be freaking out if my QB wasn't performing, or even regressing, with that kind of talent around him.

On 12/7/2019 at 7:56 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I was a "Wrong Josh!"er too

 

Whether or not Allen continues to evolve and works out long term, I will most definitely chow down my helping of "Crow Pie" on that one because the results so far are unambiguous.

 

I will admit I totally did not 'get' the impact of "intangibles" such as being able to lead and inspire teammates to play with him.  Our Josh has that in spades.  Rosen, not so much it would seem.

 

For another, from various things that he's said in interviews, I have the impression that Mr "Most Pro Ready" Rosen actually did not know things this season that you would expect a pro-ready QB who has actually played 13 NFL games to know - how to identify the Mike, how to break down film and prepare during the week, how to read the defense and know where to go with the ball based on what he sees, etc.  Either he had crappy coaching in Arizona (which seems totally possible) or he just didn't know what he didn't know, and that interfered with his ability to learn

Couldn't agree more. I was pissed when Goodell said "Allen" instead of "Rosen" on draft night.

 

And like you, I didn't realize how much those intangibles really matter. I do remember there being concerns about Rosen in leadership, but I wasn't really worried about it. Young Mr. Allen has proved that that is just as important as talent, and the work ethic that is required at the pro level as far as preparation and film study is far greater than in college.

 

On a side note.... the teams are interviewing these kids, sitting down with them, etc. Us fans aren't. So we aren't seeing the "behind the scenes" things that the teams are seeing. I learned a lesson as a fan through the whole QB thing. Trust the process. Trust the McBeane. They know what they're doing.

Edited December 9, 2019 by CLTbills