A Few Thoughts about the Eagles Game, in no particular order

[Phil The Thrill]

14 minutes ago, Virgil said:

You either believe talent trumps scheme or vice versa.  In today's game, I don't know what to believe.  On paper, we should have been able to run up the middle all day on the Eagles as well as abuse their secondary.  The weather would imply that this was going to be a low scoring game where better ground game won.  Lastly, a 5-1 team at home against a 3-4 team that just got blown out.  Even watching the Bills enter the stadium before the game, you could see the energy just wasn't there.  Eagles fans were all over the stadium.  People hate the term "Billsy" or "BBFS", but on a week where we got the most geographic viewership of the season, the critics picked us to win, and we could go 6-1 for the first time in forever, the Bills put up the type of game we all know too well this past 20 years.  Now, we will be the team that everyone called pessimists predicted; a 5-2 team that can't beat a team with a winning record.  And yes, they are right until they are wrong.  Along with that, 8-4 through 12 just became a lot more of a possibility.

 

1 - Outcoached - This game stops and starts here for me.  No matter what play we called on defense in key situations, the Eagles always had a counter.  They used screen passes, wheel routes, and QB scrambles to keep the defense on the field.  Even when they punted, it never felt like we ever shut them down.  What's worse is that we had plenty of negative plays where it was 2nd and long.  Then, almost every single time, they busted out a big run up the middle to make it 3rd and 10 or better.  It happened so much that you really have to wonder how the Bills couldn't know it was coming.  This was a game between two teams trying to establish who they were going into the second half of the season and could have broke open/destroyed a season.  The Eagles showed up and we didn't.

 

2 - Defensive Line - In the second half, when the Eagles were shoving it down our throats, we ran with our heavy set of Star, Phillips, and Johnson to no avail.  We couldn't generate enough of a pass rush with our core 4, but got upfield enough to be susceptible to the screens.  Then, when that wasn't happening, Wentz scrambled out enough to hurt us.  Long story short, this defensive line that's meant to be a strength was destroyed by a team who hadn't rushed well all season and was without a key starter.   I've also given this 7 games to finally say, where was Oliver?  I'm tired of the excuses about a guy who's contributions don't show up on the stat sheet.  That's what I hear about Star all the time.  Oliver saw a lot of single blocks and got held up.  Phillips gets in the backfield more in my opinion.  It's about time for our top 10 pick to start making an impact on the game.

 

3 - Daboll - I'm getting incredibly frustrated with his playcalling as well as his priority reads.  In the first half, we make no attempt to hide rushing formations vs passing.  We allow the opposing defense to stack the box.  When we were in shotgun in the first half, we bunched the receivers near the ball, allowing them to continue to stack the box.  Then, when he does call a play more than 10 yards down field, we are throwing to TE's and FB's.   I'm not saying they should just let Allen play street ball, but let him play to his strengths.  Line up in more shotgun formations, spread the receivers across the entire field with a single back.  This opens up rushing lanes, gives receivers space to work in (why we brought in Beasley), and gives Allen better options to run if he sees it.  This offense is extremely hit or miss, with way more miss.  The majority of our scoring plays came on broken plays or where Allen is allowed to improvise.  Today was no different.

 

4 - Playoffs?! Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? Playoffs?! I'm just hoping we can win a game, another game!

 

5 - Allen - I was good with Allen today.  People want to jump on his fumbles, but he only lost one of them.  The other two were going to be negative plays regardless.  The fumble he did lose came on a play that they've run with great success in the past.  On this specific play, Morse tripped while pulling to block and let a defender come in free at Allen.  I don't expect a lot of QB's to hold onto that ball.  Execution was the issue there, not Allen nor the playcall.  Other than that, Allen only missed a few throws, but many of them were miscommunication with the receivers.  I'd be curious to know who was wrong on the plays, but Beasley and Knox had to large ones that missed first downs or touchdowns.  Allen's first TD pass was setup completely by Allen and he did a good job of squaring his shoulders on throws.  He used his legs well and slid at the right time.  I'm not blaming the offense on Allen and before you call be an Allen apologist, see my first 5 reviews of him.  I like what I'm seeing of him.

 

6 - Defensive LVP's:  Edmunds, Wallace, & Marlowe - I'm not sure if I missed an injury or something, but Marlowe played way more snaps than usual.  On the busted TD run to start the second half, I think he is the one that got double tackled with Milano.  He also whiffed on a few passes.  Not sure if his playing was a strategy thing, but his presence was a liability on the field today.  I'd be curious to know more about this.   Same for Wallace as he was abused on the few passing plays they made.

 

Edmunds had his worst game of the season.  Howard bowled him over on a few plays and he was back to getting eaten up by blockers.  He did have a few good plays where he tracked the ball well, but overall just a liability in a game where we were ran all over.

 

7 - Finishing plays - I marked down at least 4 plays where a Bills player is calling for a flag before the ball even hits the ground.  Maybe there were a bunch of missed calls, but the Refs seemed to overall let them play.  I'm more concerned about the victim mentality that I saw out there as the game wore on.  We looked pathetic out there as a team getting beaten and then whining for more calls.  Again, maybe there was more to this, but not a good look.

 

8 - Tre - I have to give probs to Tre again this week.  He was covering everyone.  Tre was the main reason you didn't hear Ertz's name until the 4th quarter, but also was all over the field covering everyone it seemed.  I know Ertz is having a down year, but it's not easy for a DB to cover a TE like Ertz.  I was surprised that Hyde wasn't covering him today.  Regardless, Tre was out best defensive player on the field today.

 

9 - Offensive Line - Just too many jailbreaks today against Allen, especially on the edges.  I don't really care what scheme Schwartz brought against us.  There were just too many plays where Allen was harrassed and offensive lineman are standing up straight.  And while I still blame Daboll's formations and scheme, this line is not creating the holes they should be on rushing plays.  This is now multiple weeks in a row where they look confused and aren't getting a good push.

 

10 - Justified Anger - There's always going to be both sides of the coin when it comes to Bills fans.  There's those who will say it's only one game and we are still 5-2 while there are others who will say we suck and the 5-2 is just a mirage.  I'm in between honestly.  We can only play the schedule as it's written.  There are other teams equally benefiting from easy scheduling and a weak AFC.  However, the inconsistency on offense and need for 4th quarter comebacks have been a tipping point all season.  Today showed how badly it can go the other way.  If we make the playoffs, we are going to play more complete team and will need to play a complete game.  Through 7 games, we haven't and it's getting harder to justify why that hasn't happened yet.  We all wear our fandom on our sleeves and in a game where we were shown in the entire north east, we were embarrassed.  Even if we go 6-2, the narrative will be the same; we haven't beaten anyone.  Winning this game would have proven to many that the Bills have arrived, something that so many of us need after the past 20 years.  Now, we are back to dreaded 5-2 again with just as many questions about our offense as when we started the season.  Some are calling for a trade for a top WR.  Honestly, who is out there besides injured 31 year old AJ Green who may not even be available.  Even further, I'd challenge that Daboll wouldn't even know how to use him if he were here.  

 

 

Sorry for the doom and gloom.  Today was a crushing loss for me and I can't spin it.  Sure, we are 5-2, but I don't want to be a 0-1 playoff team again.  Right now, that's all I can see from us and I can't see Daboll getting out of his own way to allow himself to scheme an offense that plays to our players strengths.  

 

Go Bills!

 

You make a lot of good points for today.  I don’t know that this game is going to be indicative of the rest of the season for the Bills.  They’ll get their rushing defense figures out and teams won’t be as strong on the OL as Philly was today.  We also need a better performance from the offense.  13 points is not enough.  
 

But if you look at the big picture the Bills are 5-2 and can take the next 3 or 4 games.  Nothing is a given but it’s not impossible to think that the Bills can be in good shape going into Dallas on Thanksgiving.  

[Xwnyer]

14 minutes ago, Virgil said:

You either believe talent trumps scheme or vice versa.  In today's game, I don't know what to believe.  On paper, we should have been able to run up the middle all day on the Eagles as well as abuse their secondary.  The weather would imply that this was going to be a low scoring game where better ground game won.  Lastly, a 5-1 team at home against a 3-4 team that just got blown out.  Even watching the Bills enter the stadium before the game, you could see the energy just wasn't there.  Eagles fans were all over the stadium.  People hate the term "Billsy" or "BBFS", but on a week where we got the most geographic viewership of the season, the critics picked us to win, and we could go 6-1 for the first time in forever, the Bills put up the type of game we all know too well this past 20 years.  Now, we will be the team that everyone called pessimists predicted; a 5-2 team that can't beat a team with a winning record.  And yes, they are right until they are wrong.  Along with that, 8-4 through 12 just became a lot more of a possibility.

 

1 - Outcoached - This game stops and starts here for me.  No matter what play we called on defense in key situations, the Eagles always had a counter.  They used screen passes, wheel routes, and QB scrambles to keep the defense on the field.  Even when they punted, it never felt like we ever shut them down.  What's worse is that we had plenty of negative plays where it was 2nd and long.  Then, almost every single time, they busted out a big run up the middle to make it 3rd and 10 or better.  It happened so much that you really have to wonder how the Bills couldn't know it was coming.  This was a game between two teams trying to establish who they were going into the second half of the season and could have broke open/destroyed a season.  The Eagles showed up and we didn't.

 

2 - Defensive Line - In the second half, when the Eagles were shoving it down our throats, we ran with our heavy set of Star, Phillips, and Johnson to no avail.  We couldn't generate enough of a pass rush with our core 4, but got upfield enough to be susceptible to the screens.  Then, when that wasn't happening, Wentz scrambled out enough to hurt us.  Long story short, this defensive line that's meant to be a strength was destroyed by a team who hadn't rushed well all season and was without a key starter.   I've also given this 7 games to finally say, where was Oliver?  I'm tired of the excuses about a guy who's contributions don't show up on the stat sheet.  That's what I hear about Star all the time.  Oliver saw a lot of single blocks and got held up.  Phillips gets in the backfield more in my opinion.  It's about time for our top 10 pick to start making an impact on the game.

 

3 - Daboll - I'm getting incredibly frustrated with his playcalling as well as his priority reads.  In the first half, we make no attempt to hide rushing formations vs passing.  We allow the opposing defense to stack the box.  When we were in shotgun in the first half, we bunched the receivers near the ball, allowing them to continue to stack the box.  Then, when he does call a play more than 10 yards down field, we are throwing to TE's and FB's.   I'm not saying they should just let Allen play street ball, but let him play to his strengths.  Line up in more shotgun formations, spread the receivers across the entire field with a single back.  This opens up rushing lanes, gives receivers space to work in (why we brought in Beasley), and gives Allen better options to run if he sees it.  This offense is extremely hit or miss, with way more miss.  The majority of our scoring plays came on broken plays or where Allen is allowed to improvise.  Today was no different.

 

4 - Playoffs?! Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? Playoffs?! I'm just hoping we can win a game, another game!

 

5 - Allen - I was good with Allen today.  People want to jump on his fumbles, but he only lost one of them.  The other two were going to be negative plays regardless.  The fumble he did lose came on a play that they've run with great success in the past.  On this specific play, Morse tripped while pulling to block and let a defender come in free at Allen.  I don't expect a lot of QB's to hold onto that ball.  Execution was the issue there, not Allen nor the playcall.  Other than that, Allen only missed a few throws, but many of them were miscommunication with the receivers.  I'd be curious to know who was wrong on the plays, but Beasley and Knox had to large ones that missed first downs or touchdowns.  Allen's first TD pass was setup completely by Allen and he did a good job of squaring his shoulders on throws.  He used his legs well and slid at the right time.  I'm not blaming the offense on Allen and before you call be an Allen apologist, see my first 5 reviews of him.  I like what I'm seeing of him.

 

6 - Defensive LVP's:  Edmunds, Wallace, & Marlowe - I'm not sure if I missed an injury or something, but Marlowe played way more snaps than usual.  On the busted TD run to start the second half, I think he is the one that got double tackled with Milano.  He also whiffed on a few passes.  Not sure if his playing was a strategy thing, but his presence was a liability on the field today.  I'd be curious to know more about this.   Same for Wallace as he was abused on the few passing plays they made.

 

Edmunds had his worst game of the season.  Howard bowled him over on a few plays and he was back to getting eaten up by blockers.  He did have a few good plays where he tracked the ball well, but overall just a liability in a game where we were ran all over.

 

7 - Finishing plays - I marked down at least 4 plays where a Bills player is calling for a flag before the ball even hits the ground.  Maybe there were a bunch of missed calls, but the Refs seemed to overall let them play.  I'm more concerned about the victim mentality that I saw out there as the game wore on.  We looked pathetic out there as a team getting beaten and then whining for more calls.  Again, maybe there was more to this, but not a good look.

 

8 - Tre - I have to give probs to Tre again this week.  He was covering everyone.  Tre was the main reason you didn't hear Ertz's name until the 4th quarter, but also was all over the field covering everyone it seemed.  I know Ertz is having a down year, but it's not easy for a DB to cover a TE like Ertz.  I was surprised that Hyde wasn't covering him today.  Regardless, Tre was out best defensive player on the field today.

 

9 - Offensive Line - Just too many jailbreaks today against Allen, especially on the edges.  I don't really care what scheme Schwartz brought against us.  There were just too many plays where Allen was harrassed and offensive lineman are standing up straight.  And while I still blame Daboll's formations and scheme, this line is not creating the holes they should be on rushing plays.  This is now multiple weeks in a row where they look confused and aren't getting a good push.

 

10 - Justified Anger - There's always going to be both sides of the coin when it comes to Bills fans.  There's those who will say it's only one game and we are still 5-2 while there are others who will say we suck and the 5-2 is just a mirage.  I'm in between honestly.  We can only play the schedule as it's written.  There are other teams equally benefiting from easy scheduling and a weak AFC.  However, the inconsistency on offense and need for 4th quarter comebacks have been a tipping point all season.  Today showed how badly it can go the other way.  If we make the playoffs, we are going to play more complete team and will need to play a complete game.  Through 7 games, we haven't and it's getting harder to justify why that hasn't happened yet.  We all wear our fandom on our sleeves and in a game where we were shown in the entire north east, we were embarrassed.  Even if we go 6-2, the narrative will be the same; we haven't beaten anyone.  Winning this game would have proven to many that the Bills have arrived, something that so many of us need after the past 20 years.  Now, we are back to dreaded 5-2 again with just as many questions about our offense as when we started the season.  Some are calling for a trade for a top WR.  Honestly, who is out there besides injured 31 year old AJ Green who may not even be available.  Even further, I'd challenge that Daboll wouldn't even know how to use him if he were here.  

 

 

Sorry for the doom and gloom.  Today was a crushing loss for me and I can't spin it.  Sure, we are 5-2, but I don't want to be a 0-1 playoff team again.  Right now, that's all I can see from us and I can't see Daboll getting out of his own way to allow himself to scheme an offense that plays to our players strengths.  

 

Go Bills!

 

Hit nail on head.  The Offense has no identity and alignment is telling other team what is happening before hand.  Screen game is non existent, can’t run so can’t try play action and all the routes appear to be long taking versus quick hitting especially in the damn wind.   The D laid an egg today Star is nonexistent.  

[JoPar_v2]

Allen missed more than “a few” throws but, I agree with most here: the coaching today did him no favors. Allen did have some very tough yards scrambling today and was sliding. That’s improvement.

[Darth Bill]

That's about right. Not much to add. Need an MLB, DT, and DL on the D and some some OL help and couple of skill players on O. Throw in some ballsier coaching decisions and we be able to compete until week 12 or so for the division. At least Allen looked better than Darnold.

[Greybeard]

To paraphrase Mr. Krueger, the Bills didn't respect the Eagles.  

[Haslett_Stomp]

Thanks Virgil, I always look forward to your "thoughts".  IIRC we had a game last year where the defense gave up a lot of yards rushing, then McD and/or Frazier adjusted and it didn't happen again.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Haslett_Stomp

[WhoTom]

35 minutes ago, Virgil said:

3 - Daboll - I'm getting incredibly frustrated with his playcalling as well as his priority reads.  In the first half, we make no attempt to hide rushing formations vs passing.  We allow the opposing defense to stack the box.  When we were in shotgun in the first half, we bunched the receivers near the ball, allowing them to continue to stack the box.  Then, when he does call a play more than 10 yards down field, we are throwing to TE's and FB's.   I'm not saying they should just let Allen play street ball, but let him play to his strengths.  Line up in more shotgun formations, spread the receivers across the entire field with a single back.  This opens up rushing lanes, gives receivers space to work in (why we brought in Beasley), and gives Allen better options to run if he sees it.  This offense is extremely hit or miss, with way more miss.  The majority of our scoring plays came on broken plays or where Allen is allowed to improvise.  Today was no different.

 

Good post all around, Virgil. Regarding the above, I don't know if you saw the article about McD and the coaching staff, but supposedly they're all open to criticism from the players. Hopefully, Josh gets into Daboll's ear about the play-calling. I'm guessing he's not happy with it either.

 

In a way, I see Daboll as being a lot like Josh. He's still learning this job at an NFL level, just like Josh is. At times, both have shown signs of competence - and occasional brilliance now and then - while at other times we're scratching our heads and asking, "What the hell was he thinking?" Best case scenario, they grow and learn together, and contribute to each other's success.

 

 

 

[jahnyc]

Did seem that we were out coached today on both sides of the ball, which surprised me, particularly with the defense.  In this kind of weather, we should have been more prepared for an attack focused on rushing and short passes.  They ate us alive with the screen passes, which they used frequently.

 

On offense, I sometimes have no understanding of Daboll's game plan.  Hard to tell if it is Josh Allen's efforts to implement the play calling, or something else.  Of course, Josh Allen needs to play better and not turnover the ball as much as he does.  His fumble before the end of the half was a momentum changer.

 

Embarrassing to lose this way at home, but we really have not beaten anyone decisively  so far this season.  Still, in terms of our record, it is a good start and we have a very winnable game next week with the Redskins.  If we win next week, we are 6-2 with a good shot to go at least 10-6 (and hopefully make the playoffs).  

 

 

[ILBillsfan]

the fumble on the qb sweep was caused by the offensive lineman's butt...butt fumble part two 

 

no balls really bounced out way to day cept maybe the first qb fumble that allen was able to get on

[Billsatlastin2018]

WK1 @ Jets. WIN (1-0)

WK2 @ Giants WIN (2-0)

WK3 Bengals WIN (3-0)

WK4 Patriots LOSS (3-1)

WK5 @ Titans WIN (4-1)

WK6 BYE (4-1) 

WK7 Dolphins WIN (5-1)

WK8 Eagles LOSS (5-2)

WK9 Redskins WIN (6-2)

WK10 @ Browns LOSS (6-3)

WK11 @ Dolphins WIN (7-3) 

WK12 Broncos WIN (8-3)

WK13 @ Cowboys LOSS (8-4)

WK14 Ravens WIN (9-4)

WK15 @ Steelers LOSS (9-5)

WK16 @ Patriots LOSS (9-6)

WK17 Jets WIN  (10-6) 

 

 

The best I can say is that my prediction is bang on. Of course, it changes week to week.

 

After today’s disastrous Offensive performance and embarrassing, trashed D, now, I’m not changing.

 

Yes, it’s likely the Bills will make the Playoffs and out in 1!
ZERO progress today!

 

The occasional Allen D ball was atrocious.

300 Yards Passing? Puuuulase!

The play calling was baffling.

The D lost the game.
 

Successful season?

 

Not much.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Billsatlastin2018

[RyanC883]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

We lost

we are 5 and 2

i predicted 10 wins this year

we can still get there

 

true.  But not if we play like we did the last two games.  If we played ANY other team last week we likely are 4-3.  

Just now, Billsatlastin2018 said:

WK1 @ Jets. WIN (1-0)

WK2 @ Giants WIN (2-0)

WK3 Bengals WIN (3-0)

WK4 Patriots LOSS (3-1)

WK5 @ Titans WIN (4-1)

WK6 BYE (4-1) 

WK7 Dolphins WIN (5-1)

WK8 Eagles LOSS (5-2)

WK9 Redskins WIN (6-2)

WK10 @ Browns LOSS (6-3)

WK11 @ Dolphins WIN (7-3) 

WK12 Broncos WIN (8-3)

WK13 @ Cowboys LOSS (8-4)

WK14 Ravens WIN (9-4)

WK15 @ Steelers LOSS (9-5)

WK16 @ Patriots LOSS (9-6)

WK17 Jets WIN  (10-6) 

 

 

The best I can say is that my prediction is bang on. Of course, it changes week to week.

 

After today’s disastrous Offensive performance and embarrassing, trashed D, now, I’m not changing.

 

Yes, it’s likely the Bills will make the Playoffs and out in 1!
ZERO progress today!

 

The occasional Allen D ball was atrocious.

300 Yards Passing? Puuuulase!

The play calling was baffling.

The D lost the game.
 

Successful season?

 

Not much.

 

 

 

might want to change Ravens and Denver to Loss if last 2 weeks continue 

[John from Riverside]

If there is any benefit to a loss like this you can check to see if they learn from it

 

that is what I will be watching for now

[stowellez]

I agree with everything here.  I think Allen actually played a decent game today.  Good throw-away decisions, runs, etc.  On a day like today it comes down to a running game.  Philly had one and we didn't.  Why so few runs?  Especially for Singletary; is he still injured?  

[GunnerBill]

We were bad. Then we were terrible and then we were worse. Zero positives. 

[HOUSE]

I was dazzled by your penmanship,punctuation and grammar...

[Nihilarian]

30 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Daboll is terrible. It’s not Allen it is Daboll. I don’t think Daboll is the right coach for Allen.

A space eating DT is a priority.

a big bodied wide receiver that can get separation is a priority.

need at least two more starting caliber olinemen.

 

I agree with this! I yearn for the days with Greg Roman, Anthony Lynn. and the days of having the #1 rushing team in the league! 

 

I was concerned about the run defense before the bye week against some good RB's and now after the bye Miami ran on them, so did Philly.  Out rushed 2018 yards to 98.Only 20 rushing attempts by Buffalo vs 41 for the Eagles.

 

I complained last week about the stupid drive killing penalties and the lack of discipline by the Bills and it showed up again today. The Bills are averaging 8.5 per game and today was no different with 8 penalties for 57 yards. 

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

We were bad. Then we were terrible and then we were worse. Zero positives. 

Hard to find them today

[zow2]

Terrible loss today, for the entire team. Coaching was poor, D was gashed, D-line was really embarrassed... receivers were mostly blanketed as usual and when they weren’t Allen missed on a lot, and his fumbles of course. Just nothing positive today. Move on.

[MAJBobby]

I think it is time that Singletary is the feature RB. They traded McCoy because of Singletary (Gore would handle being the No 2 better than Shady). It is time to do that. 
 

[Nihilarian]

8 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

WK1 @ Jets. WIN (1-0)

WK2 @ Giants WIN (2-0)

WK3 Bengals WIN (3-0)

WK4 Patriots LOSS (3-1)

WK5 @ Titans WIN (4-1)

WK6 BYE (4-1) 

WK7 Dolphins WIN (5-1)

WK8 Eagles LOSS (5-2)

WK9 Redskins 

WK10 @ Browns 

WK11 @ Dolphins 

WK12 Broncos 

WK13 @ Cowboys

WK14 Ravens 

WK15 @ Steelers 

WK16 @ Patriots

WK17 Jets

 

After today's loss I wouldn't pencil in any wins as both Miami and the Eagles showed the Bills biggest weakness on defense and offense.

 

The Bills defense can't stop the run! And the Bills OC gives up on the run game expecting the young, inexperienced QB to carry the offense game after game. The current OC sucks and it was most evident today! 

 

Against Miami the team got two turnovers by the Bills defense and a TD by special teams. Nobody can reasonably expect this to happen each week. I shudder to think what will happen against the Ravens with their league leading rushing offense.