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Shaw66

Pats can keep their rings; I'll take the Bills

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31 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

I’ve been commenting for weeks about first this thing and then that thing that the Bills are doing like the Patriots.  The examples are everywhere:

 

1.  The do-your-job mentality.

2.  The offensive coordinator with the Patriot pedigree

3.  The multiple shifts and offensive formations.

4.  The solid tackling, stifling defense running out of the same sets most of the time.

5.  The attention to detail.

6.  The preparation for every situation.

 

There are plenty of examples. 

 

I was thinking today about being happy to be a Bills fan instead of a Patriots fan.  It’s an odd thought, I know, given the relative levels of success the two franchises have had over the past twenty years.  I’d love to have the Patriots’ success, and as I’ve said often in the past few months, I actually believe that success is coming for the Bills. 

 

In New England, however, that success came out of an amoral culture.   Too much has happened to support any other conclusion:

 

1.  The Patriots had a murderer on their roster.  A flat-out, cold blooded murderer.

2.  The Patriots have a big-time drug addict on their roster.  Now, I know taking drugs isn’t immoral, and I know there are other people with drug issues in the league, but drug addiction often is symptomatic of other behavioral issues. Josh Gordon has those symptoms.

3.  The Patriots have, if you can believe the latest news, a rapist on their roster.  A rapist who, by the way, quit on his first team and quit on his second team.

4.  The Patriots are owned by a billionaire who, for his personal pleasure, encourages sex-trafficking of poor women from other countries.  

5.  The Patriots coach, for all those things I admire about him, is a cheater.   His obsession with winning takes him beyond clearly delineated rules.  He isn’t gentleman enough to behave morally.  He often talks as though he respects the game and it’s past, but if he really respected it, he wouldn’t cheat.  And that’s perfectly okay with his owner who, despite his good press, clearly respects winning more than he respects people. 

 

Any one or two of those things, okay, I get it.  Nobody’s perfect.  The Bill have a guy who’s been in prison.  Richie Incognito had his issues.   Duke Williams wasn’t a choir boy.  The difference is, the Bills acquired those players and have kept them AFTER they’ve demonstrated that they’ve put those issues behind them.  And they’ve actively rid themselves of players, like Incognito, who can’t continue to behave.  The guys the Bills have are model citizens, and they are that way because McDermott and Beane wouldn’t have it any other way.   It’s important to them, and I suspect it’s important to the Pegulas, too, that the players on their team be good people as well as good players.  With the Patriots, the inquiry seems to stop at the good players test.  And it’s not surprising, when the owner has such blatant disregard for the people he uses and abuses for his own personal pleasure. 

 

They can keep their rings.  I’ll take the Bills. 

 

Go BILLS!

Well, defending the Pats isn’t something I enjoy doing, so thanks for that, Shaw, lol.

 

1. I don’t think anybody knew Hernandez was a murderer, so I don’t see how bringing this up is relevant.

 

2. Having a recovering addict on your team is not something to hold against the club. I know older generations like treating drug addiction like it’s a criminal trait but it’s a lot more complicated than that. I’ve read journals that call it a brain disease and others that contend that it’s a combination of neurological traits and environment, either way it’s not really a point I’d bring up to support your thread.

 

3. I doubt AB ever plays a down for NE. But I’ll wait to see how this plays out before condemning the Pats.

 

4. The owner paid for a bj or something. Who cares? You’re not informed about the trafficking, prosecutors withdrew that contention and it was rumoured that was all BS they fed to a judge to get the okay for cameras. 

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/robert-kraft-sex-work-trafficking-florida-823153/

 

5. Really? BB is just smarter than the rest of the league, get over it. How many Super Bowls has he won since spygate? Lots of teams cheat. Is it right? No. But you pay the price and move on.

 

This thread isn’t really up to your usual standards.

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40 minutes ago, Nester said:

Well, we had OJ

 

lets call it a tie

OJ was not a problem when he was with the Bills----when he went back to Calf & left his wife ( a very nice woman) the problems started.

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33 minutes ago, eanyills said:

Oh brother, what kind of sad sap fan base have we become when people start talking about having the more moral team?

 

I don’t care if the Bills field an entire team of jerks and criminals. Just win.

That's the other point of view.  For some people, my point of view matters.   I get that it isn't everyone's point of view.  

 

I'm not trying to start a debate, and I don't think there are winners or losers to be determined.    I just had a thought about the amoral nature of the Patriots and expressed it.   

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14 minutes ago, Bills92 said:

 

4. Where was it revealed Kraft was involved in or even encouraged sex trafficking?

 

 

Wait, participation, even financial support isn’t encouraging something?

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Hmm, I'll take both the Bills AND the rings. I'm greedy that way.

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I have to say I'm really enjoying all the things people have written.  Truly.  Thanks for your comments.   Collectively you make a good case that I'm just ill-informed.   I'll plead to that. 

 

But I'll also say that you're mistaken if you don't think there is a culture in New England that is NOT in Orchard Park.   I didn't say the Patriots were immoral, I said they were amoral.   I don't think that 20 years from now, if they're all still in Buffalo, the Pegulas, Beane and McDermott will have been any place close to the Pats' 20-year history.  Video taping and other stealing from opponents, scandalous personal behavior?  From this group?  No way.   

 

It's a different culture.  

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I’m in Shaw’s camp on this, and recognize opposing views.  I was actually thinking about this tonight, on the way to church ironically, and what I would do as an owner if my GM came to me about having AB on the team.  And I would say no, that I respect my fan base and the women of all ages in that base too much to bring someone in accused of such a thing.

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Don't fool ourselves. One ring and we would sweep away all manner of bad behavior. The rumors of Kelly's marital infidelity and drinking are probably true. Bennett plead guilty to sexual assault. Pegula made much of his money from fracking that may be destroying our planet.  Shady may have had his girlfriend beaten. 

The Patriot way is horsedung. None of it happens without Brady. Culture means nothing without a franchise QB. Levy and Jauron tried to build around culture too. They didn't find a QB. And if Allen fails, then so will McD and Beane

 

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1 hour ago, Nester said:

Well, we had OJ

 

lets call it a tie

 True, but this was all way after he was a Bill After a questionable start, he actually embraced Buffalo. 

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This is worth a read if anyone missed it at the time. I'm in the camp of 'all three of the Cheaters' Superbowls from the early 00s should be stripped.'  For those wondering, Ernie Adams is still employed by the Patriots as their Director of Football research. What a joke.

 

https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

 

Quote

HIS BOSSES WERE furious. Roger Goodell knew it. So on April 1, 2008, the NFL commissioner convened an emergency session of the league's spring meeting at The Breakers hotel in Palm Beach, Florida...Behind closed doors, Goodell addressed what he called "the elephant in the room" and, according to sources at the meeting, turned over the floor to Robert Kraft....Then the Patriots' coach, Bill Belichick, the cheating program's mastermind, spoke. He said he had merely misinterpreted a league rule, explaining that he thought it was legal to videotape opposing teams' signals as long as the material wasn't used in real time. Few in the room bought it. Belichick said he had made a mistake -- "my mistake."

 

Quote

To many owners and coaches, the expediency of the NFL's investigation -- and the Patriots' and Goodell's insistence that no games were tilted by the spying -- seemed dubious. It reminded them of something they had seen before from the league and Patriots: At least two teams had caught New England videotaping their coaches' signals in 2006, yet the league did nothing. Further, NFL competition committee members had, over the years, fielded numerous allegations about New England breaking an array of rules. Still nothing. Now the stakes had gotten much higher: Spygate's unanswered questions and destroyed evidence had managed to seize the attention of a hard-charging U.S. senator, Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, who was threatening a congressional investigation. This would put everyone -- players, coaches, owners and the commissioner -- under oath, a prospect that some in that room at The Breakers believed could threaten the foundation of the NFL.

 

Quote

When Bill Belichick became coach of the Browns in 1991, he hired Adams to be a consigliere of sorts. Owner Art Modell famously offered $10,000 to any employee who could tell him what Adams did. In short, in Cleveland and in New England, Adams did whatever he wanted -- and whatever Belichick wanted: statistical analysis, scouting and strategy. Years later, Walsh recalled to Senate investigators that Adams told old stories from the Browns about giving a video staffer an NFL Films shirt and assigning him to film the opponents' sideline huddles and grease boards from behind the bench. The shared view of Belichick and Adams, according to many who've worked with them, is this: The league is lazy and incompetent, so why not push every boundary? "You'd want Bill and Ernie doing your taxes," says a former Patriots assistant coach. "They would find all the loopholes, and then when the IRS would close them, they'd find more."

 

Edited by VW82

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45 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Hating on the Pats with half-truths and misinformation. Talk about low-hanging fruit.

Low hanging fruit! ha! I havent heard that in years!

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1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I’ve been commenting for weeks about first this thing and then that thing that the Bills are doing like the Patriots.  The examples are everywhere:

 

1.  The do-your-job mentality.

2.  The offensive coordinator with the Patriot pedigree

3.  The multiple shifts and offensive formations.

4.  The solid tackling, stifling defense running out of the same sets most of the time.

5.  The attention to detail.

6.  The preparation for every situation.

 

Near media blackout.   

 

Not much gossip comes from the team or undisclosed sources.  

 

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I agree with Shaw but let’s be clear, every team has drafted and acquired players that were known “bad” guys with hope of rehabilitation.   Maybe the Pats* more than most.   Let’s not forget that Bills were in discussions with this creep’s agent. 

 

Where Shaw is 100% correct is the cheating.  I’m betting we don’t even know the half of it either.  

 

As for the owner.  Any guy in his position, at this point in his life, that takes a poor $79 prostitute is amoral.  While I doubt he was directly involved in trafficking, his choice to exploit the poor, uneducated, and desperate make him a low life in my opinion.    

 

I could not see Ralph or Terry doing such a thing and would not support them if I knew that they did.  

Edited by Bob in STL

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56 minutes ago, Bills92 said:

Maybe I just hate the Pats too much or too much of a die hard Bills fan, but based on how the Pats have gone about it, I really prefer being a Bills fan.   I absolutely (needless to say) would want 1 Superbowl victory.. let alone 6.. but I think it's important for the team (that I support) to represent something 'good'.  

 

I'm not sure if I could define what 'good' really means.. because I agree, the idea of having a team of 'choir boys' is delusional in this time and age.  But the team leaders, should be representative of what the team 'is'.. So when I look at this young team, and it's leaders, like Allan, Edmonds, Horrible Harry, and Tre White.. and what they seem (please note seem) to represent.. I feel 'good' about this team.

 

Lastly, when I think about the drought years..   My favorite team of all those years, was probably one of the worst teams - which was the 2010 team that finished 4-12.. But that team had good leaders like Fitzy, Eric Woods, Stevie Johnson (Yes.. Stevie was a good leader) , Fred Jackson..   In turn they made them likable and fun to watch.  In spite of their record (and maybe my infinite ignorance)..  I wore my Bills gear with pride that year..  

So maybe I'm confusing good with likable..  but other then that 2001 Patriots team..  since then..  I don't think they have ever been 'good' or 'likable'

 

 

 

 

 

We're obviously die hard Bills fans here but let's all be honest, we all want nothing more than to experience the same success as the Pats. If Allen and McD went on to be the greatest ever at their jobs and we had 2 decades of dominance then we'd all live with a little scandal here and there. To me, this petty hatred of the Pats stems from being insanely jealous of what they have and having to deal with them kicking our ass twice a year. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

We're obviously die hard Bills fans here but let's all be honest, we all want nothing more than to experience the same success as the Pats. If Allen and McD went on to be the greatest ever at their jobs and we had 2 decades of dominance then we'd all live with a little scandal here and there. To me, this petty hatred of the Pats stems from being insanely jealous of what they have and having to deal with them kicking our ass twice a year. 

 

 Nah.  It’s their fans.

 

I’d be able to respect what BB and Brady are doing, at least minimally - if not for the cartoonish arrogance of that fan base.  I have friends there that I just can’t talk football with anymore.

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14 minutes ago, 4th&long said:

You forgot about Cory Dillion. That guy has a rap sheet as long as his arm.

 

Bills employed travis henry and marshawn lynch. What’s your point

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2 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Shaw, you’re better than this nonsense.

 

1. Hernandez was released 2 hours after he was arrested. 

2. Every NFL team is loading these guys up with pills and pain killers on a weekly or even daily basis. The NFL’s drug and PED policy is an absolute joke.

3. The AB stuff is probably your strongest point given his actions the last year. However, your talking as though he’s already been convicted of rape. 

4. Where was it revealed Kraft was involved in or even encouraged sex trafficking?

 

Trent Murphy busted for PEDs. Tyrel Dodson arrested for domestic related charges after allegedly getting physical with his girlfriend. Beane even tried to go after AB whom you’ve already deemed to be a rapist. 

 

I would rather have 6 SB rings than a locker room full of choir boys who all get along. But that’s just me though. 

1. Hernandez hung himself after being convicted of murder.

2. Fair enough, but why does Gordon keep getting suspended or quitting if everyone is doing it?

3. The case against AB is a civil suit, he’s not going to get convicted of anything. The woman in question is suing him for $75,000 because she was an employee and she thought a friend, she could not continue to work for him for obvious reasons. 

4. Kraft’s arrest was the result of a joint task force investigating human trafficking.

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46 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

 

Bills employed travis henry and marshawn lynch. What’s your point

Shaw’s point is about the current regime.  I wish people would not lump different owners/GMs/HCs together.

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2 hours ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Let's be honest...

 

OJ was one of the most electrifying football players the world had ever seen at that time.

 

He was the first running back to reach 2000 yards in a single, shortened season.

 

He later went on to show his personality chops with his Avis commercials.

 

Then he moved into TV and big screen dramas like The Towering Inferno, Roots and Capricorn One.

 

Soon after, he had us laughing with his stint in The Naked Gun series as the lovable character Nordberg.

 

After all that, the dude has ONE BAD DAY and everyone gives him schitt.

 

 

It wasn't even a bad DAY per se. More like a bad 15 minutes. For all we know, he could have anonymously donated to a children's hospital that afternoon. Cut the guy some slack, would ya?

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7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Shaw’s point is about the current regime.  I wish people would not lump different owners/GMs/HCs together.

So the past 20 years can be cited when talking about the Pats, but only the last 2 can be cited when talking about the Bills, simply because BB has been there for that long? That’s not disingenuous at all.

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