Bills Security Blanket at Back Up QB Position !!

[Perk71]

No to a trade. 

Go Bills!

[Figster]

1 hour ago, bills_believer said:

It wouldn't make sense for the Bills or the Colts. A backup QB is pretty valuable, so the Bills would have to go out and get one after trading Barkley. Barkley seems like a nice fit for the Bills. 

 

From the Colts perspective, Barkley doing well in the preseason is hardly a predictor of franchise QB type success. There will be some interesting names out there after the cuts, if they want to take a chance on someone. They probably would be best off struggling through this season and drafting someone next year. 

Barkley was a highly coveted young QB prospect at one point in time.

 

Luck is impossible to replace, but I could see the Colts fan base getting behind a guy like Matt Barkley.

 

Don't get me wrong, keeping Barkley long term sets well with me.

 

Beane on the other hand has shown If he can get good trade value on a player that he can replace via FA.

 

Anythings possible... 

[Mr. WEO]

No one is going to give up a draft pick to bring in a 3rd QB.

[mjt328]

Backup QB is an unused luxury... until it isn't.

 

Without Nick Foles, the Eagles don't win the Super Bowl - and are instead complaining how an injury to Carson Wentz destroyed their season.

There are MANY instances where a good backup can win 1-2 games during an untimely injury, keeping a team in a playoff race.

 

How many times did Frank Reich come through for us during the Super Bowl years?

[Figster]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

What do you think teams are going to give for a qb with a 67 career qb rating who was sitting in the couch 7 weeks into last season?  Barkley has no trade value unless a stupid team actually puts stock into preseason games.

One of the best days the Bills O had last season from a passing perspective was with Matt Barkley behind center.

 

Regular season...

 

I think we can both agree 12 career game starts does not a QB make.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Figster

[Augie]

3 hours ago, H2o said:

Definitely not trading Barkley. I think he is more of an asset to this team than just your average backup QB. 

 

But think of how fun and exciting it would be to be one bad play away from making Tyree Jackson your starting QB!   

[Figster]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

But think of how fun and exciting it would be to be one bad play away from making Tyree Jackson your starting QB!   

Jackson > Peterman

 

I'm just saying...

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Figster said:

Jackson > Peterman

 

I'm just saying...

Think we could squeeze a first or a second out of Gruden for him? Might be worth a shot, and their second rounder just might be #33! 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, T master said:

I think the Bills are set at the back up QB position & i wouldn't be afraid to have Barkley at the helm if heaven forbid something should happen to Josh that he had to be out part or all of a season due to injury which is a really good thing for the Bills because there hasn't been this good of a back up QB on the roster in quite a while .

 

There are teams that are in as good of situation as the Bills are when it comes to this position on their teams but then there are others that are not such as the Colts now. I was wondering what Bills mafia would think if Frank comes knocking on Beanes door & wants to give up a draft pick to get Barkley because he has been playing so well .

 

Would you have Beane pull the trigger on something like that ? And if so what would they have to give in return to get him ? 

 

I have read articles that the Colts are looking around for other QB's & i'm not sure if that is because Frank isn't completely settled on Brisset as his Mr. Right now or if he isn't comfortable with what he has as his back up Chad Kelly due to his immaturity  seeing as he has been suspended 2 games again this season & given his past !

 

 Either way if he was to go fishing around Buffalo due to his relationship with the franchise would you all be willing to give up that security blanket of having Barkley & if not how much would it cost them to pry him away from the team ? 

 

No.  I'm with the Eagles, that one of the most valuable positions on the roster is the backup QB.

 

It's not just Barkley's value as a backup QB that's the issue, it's his value as a mentor and a steadying influence for Allen.

 

I'd tell Reich to look elsewhere.

29 minutes ago, Figster said:

Barkley was a highly coveted young QB prospect at one point in time.

 

Luck is impossible to replace, but I could see the Colts fan base getting behind a guy like Matt Barkley.

 

Don't get me wrong, keeping Barkley long term sets well with me.

 

Beane on the other hand has shown If he can get good trade value on a player that he can replace via FA.

 

Anythings possible... 

 

OK just curious...what QB do you really think Beane could replace Barkley with via FA, at this point in time?  Even if it's someone as good (and I would appreciate names), they won't know our system, terminology etc.

[Figster]

54 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No.  I'm with the Eagles, that one of the most valuable positions on the roster is the backup QB.

 

It's not just Barkley's value as a backup QB that's the issue, it's his value as a mentor and a steadying influence for Allen.

 

I'd tell Reich to look elsewhere.

 

OK just curious...what QB do you really think Beane could replace Barkley with via FA, at this point in time?  Even if it's someone as good (and I would appreciate names), they won't know our system, terminology etc.

Anderson or McCarron come to mind.

 

Moore was just picked up recently and is a 500 QB. (example)

 

My point is ideally Barkley will never play in a regular season game. A healthy Josh Allen allows Buffalo the time to get a FA up to speed in the Daboll O IMO.  If the trade value for Barkley becomes high enough I would expect Beane to pull the trigger in my humble opinion

Edited August 29, 2019 by Figster

[C.Biscuit97]

41 minutes ago, Figster said:

One of the best days the Bills O had last season from a passing perspective was with Matt Barkley behind center.

 

Regular season...

 

I think we can both agree 12 career game starts does not a QB make.

There’s a reason he has had 12 starts and was out of the league last year.  Super nice guy and I’m fine with him as our backup.  But he is the definition of replacement level.  Honestly, I actually won be fine with Osweiler as our backup instead of Barkley, but it would be bad timing to make that move now.

[Figster]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

There’s a reason he has had 12 starts and was out of the league last year.  Super nice guy and I’m fine with him as our backup.  But he is the definition of replacement level.  Honestly, I actually won be fine with Osweiler as our backup instead of Barkley, but it would be bad timing to make that move now.

12 starts spread out over 4 seasons which is no way to develop properly IMO.

 

Matt Barkley just needs experience in my humble opinion Biscuit.

 

Myself personally, One season under your belt (game experience) is when a young QB prospect will start seeing the game slow down.

 

Which would be right about now for both Barkley and Allen IMO.

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, T master said:

I think the Bills are set at the back up QB position & i wouldn't be afraid to have Barkley at the helm if heaven forbid something should happen to Josh that he had to be out part or all of a season due to injury which is a really good thing for the Bills because there hasn't been this good of a back up QB on the roster in quite a while .

 

There are teams that are in as good of situation as the Bills are when it comes to this position on their teams but then there are others that are not such as the Colts now. I was wondering what Bills mafia would think if Frank comes knocking on Beanes door & wants to give up a draft pick to get Barkley because he has been playing so well .

 

Would you have Beane pull the trigger on something like that ? And if so what would they have to give in return to get him ? 

 

I have read articles that the Colts are looking around for other QB's & i'm not sure if that is because Frank isn't completely settled on Brisset as his Mr. Right now or if he isn't comfortable with what he has as his back up Chad Kelly due to his immaturity  seeing as he has been suspended 2 games again this season & given his past !

 

 Either way if he was to go fishing around Buffalo due to his relationship with the franchise would you all be willing to give up that security blanket of having Barkley & if not how much would it cost them to pry him away from the team ? 

Our QB situation is good....lets keep it

[billsredneck1]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

Backup QB is an unused luxury... until it isn't.

 

Without Nick Foles, the Eagles don't win the Super Bowl - and are instead complaining how an injury to Carson Wentz destroyed their season.

There are MANY instances where a good backup can win 1-2 games during an untimely injury, keeping a team in a playoff race.

 

How many times did Frank Reich come through for us during the Super Bowl years?

enough to get us to the superbowl. great point! houston game...pitt game...i'm sure there's at least another.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

38 minutes ago, Figster said:

12 starts spread out over 4 seasons which is no way to develop properly IMO.

 

Matt Barkley just needs experience in my humble opinion Biscuit.

 

Myself personally, One season under your belt (game experience) is when a young QB prospect will start seeing the game slow down.

 

Which would be right about now for both Barkley and Allen IMO.

 

He's a backup QB at this point.  Not high end, but not bottom of the barrel.  He doesn't have a plus arm, or plus athleticism, nor is he pinpoint accurate. 

 

He does have the advantage of having bounced around a ton of different systems (Philly, Zona twice, Chicago, SF, cincy, and now buffalo).  It's not good necessarily for his absorption of offenses at the time, but at this point he almost has to be flexible because he's been around the block. 

 

He's seen a lot of different defensive systems in practice, and practiced a lot of different systems at QB.  He just hasn't played a ton of games, and when he has he hasn't looked good.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

Anderson or McCarron come to mind.

 

Moore was just picked up recently and is a 500 QB. (example)

 

My point is ideally Barkley will never play in a regular season game. A healthy Josh Allen allows Buffalo the time to get a FA up to speed in the Daboll O IMO.  If the trade value for Barkley becomes high enough I would expect Beane to pull the trigger in my humble opinion

 

You don't want your vet mentor to need to 'come up to speed', you want him ready each game to be full-speed helpful and full-go ready to your starter because any backup is always 1 hit away from taking the snaps.  You could be right, but if so it would be an admission that the Bills, once more, don't believe they are seriously ready to contend.  In McDermott's 3rd season as HC, that would raise the legit question "just when does accountability start here?"

 

Anderson retired.  That ship has sailed.  McCarron is under contract to the Texans, so not a FA per your contention the Bills could sign someone as good as Barkley through FA.  That's leaving aside the point that the Bills liked McCarron so little that they played him in last year's 4th preseason game before trading him away, leaving them no option but to throw Allen to the wolves when Peterman (predictably IMHO) flamed out in a real game. 

 

That was mismanagement of the QB position so egregious that I wouldn't put it past Beane to do something similar this season, but it would be dumb (again IMHO).

 

 

[Nextmanup]

I think there is a chance that Barkley is good.  Like good enough to give Allen a run for his money if the progress everyone expects isn't there.

 

No way would I trade him.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I think there is a chance that Barkley is good.  Like good enough to give Allen a run for his money if the progress everyone expects isn't there.

No way would I trade him.

 

The Chicago Bears did that experiment in 2016, when Barkley started the last 6 games of the season for them. 

The answer was "No". 

[Figster]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You don't want your vet mentor to need to 'come up to speed', you want him ready each game to be full-speed helpful and full-go ready to your starter because any backup is always 1 hit away from taking the snaps.  You could be right, but if so it would be an admission that the Bills, once more, don't believe they are seriously ready to contend.  In McDermott's 3rd season as HC, that would raise the legit question "just when does accountability start here?"

 

Anderson retired.  That ship has sailed.  McCarron is under contract to the Texans, so not a FA per your contention the Bills could sign someone as good as Barkley through FA.  That's leaving aside the point that the Bills liked McCarron so little that they played him in last year's 4th preseason game before trading him away, leaving them no option but to throw Allen to the wolves when Peterman (predictably IMHO) flamed out in a real game. 

 

That was mismanagement of the QB position so egregious that I wouldn't put it past Beane to do something similar this season, but it would be dumb (again IMHO).

 

 

Thanks for the reply/ update on McCarron and Anderson. 

 

Myself personally, I think mismanagement of the Oline started the whole mess.

 

The bright side is Allen is a season ahead of schedule.  (from where I thought he would be anyway)

 

I like your reasoning...

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Figster said:

Thanks for the reply/ update on McCarron and Anderson. 

 

Myself personally, I think mismanagement of the Oline started the whole mess.

 

The bright side is Allen is a season ahead of schedule.  (from where I thought he would be anyway)

 

I like your reasoning...

 

Oh, well, I can hardly disagree with you there.  I'm well-known to have been fairly irate that the Bills didn't do more to address the OL last year with a precious drafted rookee

[C.Biscuit97]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The Chicago Bears did that experiment in 2016, when Barkley started the last 6 games of the season for them. 

The answer was "No". 

He was on pace to throw 28 ints.  His arm is weaker than Fitz’s. 

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

He was on pace to throw 28 ints.  His arm is weaker than Fitz’s. 

It's not even close. Barkley's is substantially weaker. He's way, way overrated by Bills fans. Although he will definitely help Josh. 

[ColoradoBills]

7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

There’s a reason he has had 12 starts and was out of the league last year.  Super nice guy and I’m fine with him as our backup.  But he is the definition of replacement level.  Honestly, I actually won be fine with Osweiler as our backup instead of Barkley, but it would be bad timing to make that move now.

 

There is lot of posts about Barkley "sitting on the couch/our of the league" in 2018 but that's a bit of a stretch.

Barkley signed a 2 year 3.1 million dollar contract with the Bengals in March of 2018.  He got injured and IR'd.

Bengals then released him and he recovered in the first part of last season.

 

I only use your post to say this because it was the latest but it's not like nobody wanted him after his CHI stint.

Edited August 30, 2019 by ColoradoBills
added $ amount

[Figster]

58 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

It's not even close. Barkley's is substantially weaker. He's way, way overrated by Bills fans. Although he will definitely help Josh. 

 

 

Not much info on Barkleys actual velocity and it would not surprise me If he has gotten stronger over time. Eye test tells me Matt Barkley is making all the throws. ( In a Bills uni)

 

Fitz doesn't have enough arm strength to throw with good zip without using his whole body on the throw.( IMO )

 

Myself personally, I think Barkley uses much better throwing mechanics resulting in better accuracy. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Figster

[Doc]

7 hours ago, Figster said:

Not much info on Barkleys actual velocity and it would not surprise me If he has gotten stronger over time. Eye test tells me Matt Barkley is making all the throws. ( In a Bills uni)

 

Fitz doesn't have enough arm strength to throw with good zip without using his whole body on the throw.( IMO )

 

Myself personally, I think Barkley uses much better throwing mechanics resulting in better accuracy. 

 

Fitz is a double-cheeker.  But again with Barkley, I think he knows to play within his limits, something Fitz and Peterman struggle doing.

[T master]

16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The Chicago Bears did that experiment in 2016, when Barkley started the last 6 games of the season for them. 

The answer was "No". 

 

Very true but remember what happened when Case Keenum went to the Vikings in the scheme they ran, it fit him apparently & he excelled in it & given what we have seen in Barkley to this point with his experience & he has said in recent interviews that he loves the scheme Dabol has put in .

 

So that being said he could thrive like Keenum did with the Bills given the chance .

 

Like i said in the post i don't think they should do a deal for Barkley the post was a hypothetical & it would have to be one heck of a trade if it was even a thought & knowing what Beane & company see in Barkley i don't think he will be going any where ! 

 

But as stated in some reply's with Beane anything could be possible ...

[C.Biscuit97]

10 hours ago, Figster said:

 

 

Not much info on Barkleys actual velocity and it would not surprise me If he has gotten stronger over time. Eye test tells me Matt Barkley is making all the throws. ( In a Bills uni)

 

Fitz doesn't have enough arm strength to throw with good zip without using his whole body on the throw.( IMO )

 

Myself personally, I think Barkley uses much better throwing mechanics resulting in better accuracy. 

You are basing this on one game against a crappy Jets team and preseason games.  Fitz is Tom Brady compared to Barkley. 

[Kelly the Dog]

10 hours ago, Figster said:

 

 

Not much info on Barkleys actual velocity and it would not surprise me If he has gotten stronger over time. Eye test tells me Matt Barkley is making all the throws. ( In a Bills uni)

 

Fitz doesn't have enough arm strength to throw with good zip without using his whole body on the throw.( IMO )

 

Myself personally, I think Barkley uses much better throwing mechanics resulting in better accuracy. 

If you rewatch the Jets game he threw floaters all game, and got lucky with them several times. He could have had a few interceptions. He doesn't have the arm. He can get away with it sometimes, like did against the Jets, because he is smart. But he is the same guy he was on Philly and Chicago, and was chosen in the fourth round. He has everything you want except an arm, and they get killed in regular season games. The practice and preseason is Peterman 1.0

[BillsMafia13]

23 hours ago, nucci said:

Great?

Unless your threshold for great is aaron rodgers as a back up qb, yes barkley has been everything the bills could have asked for and then some 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, T master said:

 

Very true but remember what happened when Case Keenum went to the Vikings in the scheme they ran, it fit him apparently & he excelled in it & given what we have seen in Barkley to this point with his experience & he has said in recent interviews that he loves the scheme Dabol has put in .

 

So that being said he could thrive like Keenum did with the Bills given the chance .

 

Like i said in the post i don't think they should do a deal for Barkley the post was a hypothetical & it would have to be one heck of a trade if it was even a thought & knowing what Beane & company see in Barkley i don't think he will be going any where ! 

 

But as stated in some reply's with Beane anything could be possible ...

 

I personally think Pat Shurmur is a QB whisperer.  He has gotten good play out of Foles and Keenum and made Sanchez and Bradford look competent.  I'm not sure Daboll is a whisperer on the same level.  I guess we'll see.

 

The other thing to realize is the part played by the WR/TE they were throwing to.  Thielen and Diggs have amazing vertical leap and can haul in those 'zip code accuracy' throws.  Same was true of Desean Jackson in Philly.

[Figster]

29 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

If you rewatch the Jets game he threw floaters all game, and got lucky with them several times. He could have had a few interceptions. He doesn't have the arm. He can get away with it sometimes, like did against the Jets, because he is smart. But he is the same guy he was on Philly and Chicago, and was chosen in the fourth round. He has everything you want except an arm, and they get killed in regular season games. The practice and preseason is Peterman 1.0

I respectfully disagree

 

Myself personally, arm strength is a bit overrated and the fraction of a second difference between 50 and 60 mph throws can be made up with faster read and react time/decisiveness IMO. Also throwing trajectory with more of an arc in many instances proves more beneficial then a straight line trajectory especially for shorter QB's.

 

In my humble opinion Kelly.

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, Figster said:

I respectfully disagree

 

Myself personally, arm strength is a bit overrated and the fraction of a second difference between 50 and 60 mph throws can be made up with faster read and react time/decisiveness IMO. Also throwing trajectory with more of an arc in many instances proves more beneficial then a straight line trajectory especially for shorter QB's.

 

In my humble opinion Kelly.

Arm strength is overrated IF you can make all the throws. A guy like Fitz doesn't have good arm strength but he can throw a deep out pass in the regular season. Barkley cannot. It's an enormous difference.

[Figster]

17 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Arm strength is overrated IF you can make all the throws. A guy like Fitz doesn't have good arm strength but he can throw a deep out pass in the regular season. Barkley cannot. It's an enormous difference.

My eye test with Barkley in a Bills uni says different. 

 

The Bills have a very good secondary to practice against. Where are the Barkley INT's? Where were they last season in regular season play? Or this preseason?

 

I think its easy to look at a young QB with only 12 NFL games played and say he sucks.

 

I've seen as many strong armed QB's fail in the NFL because they can't throw with anticipation or touch as QB's that fail from lack of sufficient arm strength.

 

I think the answer might be somewhere in the middle,

 

With all due respect thy Dog... 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Figster

[Kelly the Dog]

20 minutes ago, Figster said:

My eye test with Barkley in a Bills uni says different. 

 

The Bills have a very good secondary to practice against. Where are the Barkley INT's? Where were they last season in regular season play? Or this preseason?

 

I think its easy to look at a young QB with only 12 NFL games played and say he sucks.

 

I've seen as many strong armed QB's fail in the NFL because they can't throw with anticipation or touch as QB's that fail from lack of sufficient arm strength.

 

I think the answer might be somewhere in the middle,

 

With all due respect thy Dog... 

Fair enough but practice and preseason are never played at full speed, and the difference between those two speeds and real bullets are completions and interceptions.

[Figster]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Fair enough but practice and preseason are never played at full speed, and the difference between those two speeds and real bullets are completions and interceptions.

This is true,

 

I think the next move is up to Barkley,

 

Does he Peterman out when called upon in real action?

 

 Is the Bills Bark worse then the oppositions D's bite?

 

that becomes the question...

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Figster said:

This is true,

 

I think the next move is up to Barkley,

 

Does he Peterman out when called upon in real action?

 

 Is the Bills Bark worse then the oppositions D's bite?

 

that becomes the question...

On an out pass or deep out or deep in, Barkley is Peterman. He's just a little smarter, and he doesn't telegraph or panic as much. But he does have an 8 TD and 14 INT record, and it's because his arm is not NFL quality. If he even had Fitzy's arm he may be able to start in this league.

[Figster]

3 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

On an out pass or deep out or deep in, Barkley is Peterman. He's just a little smarter, and he doesn't telegraph or panic as much. But he does have an 8 TD and 14 INT record, and it's because his arm is not NFL quality. If he even had Fitzy's arm he may be able to start in this league.

I think Fitzy is a career turnover machine and body whips allot of throws to achieve higher velocity.

 

I had a thread topic here on TBD years ago while Fitzfizzles was Buffalo's starting QB,

 

"Fitz the turnover machine" (If I remember correctly)

[Kelly the Dog]

19 minutes ago, Figster said:

I think Fitzy is a career turnover machine and body whips allot of throws to achieve higher velocity.

 

I had a thread topic here on TBD years ago while Fitzfizzles was Buffalo's starting QB,

 

"Fitz the turnover machine" (If I remember correctly)

Oh, he definitely is. That wind up costs him the same split second that kills weak armed QBs a lot of times.

[stuvian]

Barkley will win us 2 -3 games this year

[T master]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I personally think Pat Shurmur is a QB whisperer.  He has gotten good play out of Foles and Keenum and made Sanchez and Bradford look competent.  I'm not sure Daboll is a whisperer on the same level.  I guess we'll see.

 

The other thing to realize is the part played by the WR/TE they were throwing to.  Thielen and Diggs have amazing vertical leap and can haul in those 'zip code accuracy' throws.  Same was true of Desean Jackson in Philly.

 

Point taken ! ?