John from Riverside Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just now, MacGyver said: Exactly, had no beneficial effect on the teams success. I think the proof is in the draft picks To me....I see a lot of good picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said: In my opinion, it is, because “Bills fans” aren’t the ones saying it. The Bills have a well respected FO. It’s ok to accept this. So they'll win games now right? Not trying to pick a fight, but c'mon, lets not continue to be such a gullible fan base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 minute ago, MacGyver said: So they'll win games now right? Not trying to pick a fight, but c'mon, lets not continue to be such a gullible fan base. Sir I will be VERY dissapointed if we dont win games this year Remember.....we just went through a massive rebiuld....last year's team had hardly any talent.........we fixed that in the offseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, MacGyver said: It's not a strange comment. Bills fans said the same thing about the Donahoe & Modrak dynamic duo. No one said they were a dynamic duo but ppl did feel it was sound to have a president of football operations along with a GM. We are far removed from that era and now many are starting to see stability and solid FO additions. They have also seen 2 really good to possibly great drafts with some A plus FA signings i.e. Poyer and Hyde come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just now, MacGyver said: So they'll win games now right? Not trying to pick a fight, but c'mon, lets not continue to be such a gullible fan base. Is it really being “gullible” to admit they have a good FO? Are the national reporters who state this, or fans of other teams who say this, gullible or just understand the experienced and developing talent of their personnel group is strong? I don’t think I follow .... which is fine. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just now, YoloinOhio said: Is it really being “gullible” to admit they have a good FO? Are the national reporters who state this, or fans of other teams who say this, gullible or just understand the experienced and developing talent of their personnel group is strong? I don’t think I follow .... which is fine. It's the meaningless feel good time of year, stories like this do nothing but raise false hope IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just now, MacGyver said: It's the meaningless feel good time of year, stories like this do nothing but raise false hope IMO. It’s not a “story.” It’s a personnel move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said: No one said they were a dynamic duo but ppl did feel it was sound to have a president of football operations along with a GM. We are far removed from that era and now many are starting to see stability and solid FO additions. They have also seen 2 really good to possibly great drafts with some A plus FA signings i.e. Poyer and Hyde come to mind. Whaley is responsible for Poyer & Hyde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 hour ago, MacGyver said: I remember when ppl were saying this when Tom Modrak was hired. That never really worked out. Was he hired before or after donahoe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, MacGyver said: Whaley is responsible for Poyer & Hyde. 10 minutes ago, MacGyver said: Whaley is responsible for Poyer & Hyde. I didn’t remember it going down that way, if so, my bad. Beane hired Bills GM 2017 Hyde picked up in FA , Bills 2017 ?♂️ Edited July 23, 2019 by billsfan_34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, dneveu said: Was he hired before or after donahoe? Oh boy, I want to say Donahoe hired him. I also know that human memory is mostly faked in by the brain. Edited July 23, 2019 by MacGyver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsSbSoon Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Gaine wanted to sign clowney long term and o'brien didnt. Its more than possible gaine pushes for us to make the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said: I didn’t remember it going down that way, if so, my bad. Beane hired Bills GM 2017 Hyde picked up in FA , Bills 2017 ?♂️ They were added before Beane arrived, Whaley and his staff supposedly did the legwork. 5 minutes ago, BillsSbSoon said: Gaine wanted to sign clowney long term and o'brien didnt. Its more than possible gaine pushes for us to make the trade. I would not give up a 1st for Clowney, he has not lived up to the hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaBu Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: My only worry about this is where he fits. He was the Director of Player Personnel. Dan Morgan has that job now. So is he reporting to Morgan? If so is he senior to the Malik Boyd (Dir Pro Personnel) and Terrence Gray (Dir College Scouting)? Or is he in fact not reporting to Morgan but directly to Beane and Schoen? I think the clue may be in his title, Senior Personnel "Advisor." Someone in an advisor role usually doesn't have many teeth in a decision making role. I think he's another set of eyes that they respect and feel can add to the decision making process. I agree and also believe they are keeping him on the back bench as insurance for possible future F O moves/vacancies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, MacGyver said: Oh boy, I want to say Donahoe hired him. I also know that human memory is mostly faked in by the brain. He stuck around a long time after that. I always wonder though... what if he was all about Big ben? Or was he against moving for bledsoe? Like who made the call on the trade, and who made the call on losman being worthy of a 1st? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsSbSoon Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, MacGyver said: They were added before Beane arrived, Whaley and his staff supposedly did the legwork. I would not give up a 1st for Clowney, he has not lived up to the hype. Who said first? He hasnt even signed the franchise tag yet. I prolly wouldnt give a first either, but its also a move we can make while not having to pay allen yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, jabu said: I think the clue may be in his title, Senior Personnel "Advisor." Someone in an advisor role usually doesn't have many teeth in a decision making role. I think he's another set of eyes that they respect and feel can add to the decision making process. I agree and also believe they are keeping him on the back bench as insurance for possible future F O moves/vacancies. Yeah - might report right in to beane for all we know, and works hand in hand with all the pro personnel guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: And was hired by Beane (after himself interviewing here for Beane's job) so AFTER that year's FA and draft. He is a well respected personnel guy but I think it is a stretch to say he "helped" the team make the playoffs. He much more "helped" their 2018 draft - the Josh Allen / Tremaine Edmunds e v a l.... even though he was gone before the draft. My only worry about this is where he fits. He was the Director of Player Personnel. Dan Morgan has that job now. So is he reporting to Morgan? If so is he senior to the Malik Boyd (Dir Pro Personnel) and Terrence Gray (Dir College Scouting)? Or is he in fact not reporting to Morgan but directly to Beane and Schoen? I hate messy organisational structures that create ambiguity about who is accountable for what and to who... my experience across 3 professions is that never works well. My instinct is that the Bills think that Morgan and Schoen are likely to get looks elsewhere next off-season if Allen and Edmunds take a step and the Bills 2019 class looks good out of the gate. They have got Gaine back in the building and if either of those two roles (essentially the 2nd and 3rd in command) become available after 2019 he will seamlessly move into that job. I just hope until then how he fits into the rest of the structure is very clearly defined. He wont ACTUALLY be in the building, but sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: And was hired by Beane (after himself interviewing here for Beane's job) so AFTER that year's FA and draft. He is a well respected personnel guy but I think it is a stretch to say he "helped" the team make the playoffs. He much more "helped" their 2018 draft - the Josh Allen / Tremaine Edmunds e v a l.... even though he was gone before the draft. My only worry about this is where he fits. He was the Director of Player Personnel. Dan Morgan has that job now. So is he reporting to Morgan? If so is he senior to the Malik Boyd (Dir Pro Personnel) and Terrence Gray (Dir College Scouting)? Or is he in fact not reporting to Morgan but directly to Beane and Schoen? I hate messy organisational structures that create ambiguity about who is accountable for what and to who... my experience across 3 professions is that never works well. My instinct is that the Bills think that Morgan and Schoen are likely to get looks elsewhere next off-season if Allen and Edmunds take a step and the Bills 2019 class looks good out of the gate. They have got Gaine back in the building and if either of those two roles (essentially the 2nd and 3rd in command) become available after 2019 he will seamlessly move into that job. I just hope until then how he fits into the rest of the structure is very clearly defined. I think he will be more of an assistant GM to Beane. they said he will work in both college and pro personnel I’m guessing he will work with Schoen, who is probably going to get some interviews in the next GM hiring cycle. There is never a lack of work to do and as long as the oWners are willing to pay, might as well get Beane more help. Edited July 23, 2019 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Front Office may have the most depth of any position on the team. Just a great, great collection of personnel men and future and former GMs. Amazing job by Beane assembling this staff, and it reflects extremely well on him that so many highly thought of men are willing to work for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 2 hours ago, MacGyver said: I remember when ppl were saying this when Tom Modrak was hired. That never really worked out. This is just sad. Like on so many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misterbluesky Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 2 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Who or what do you want to give up for a guy that has NEVER gotten 10 sacks in his Career. Depends on compensation He had more sacks last year than Murphy and Lawson did combined.Nearly 20 in two years..and we have the money. How many times does he get double teamed a game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Misterbluesky said: He had more sacks last year than Murphy and Lawson did combined.Nearly 20 in two years..and we have the money. How many times does he get double teamed a game... Didnt answer the Question. Compensation what are you giving up to get a player that has NEVER gotten 10 sacks a season? Shaq and Trent Combine for 8 sacks. 4 FF, 1 FR and 54 Tackles Clowney 9 Sacks 1 FF and 3 FR and 47 tackles. So what is your trade compensation for that AVG play? Edited July 23, 2019 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: This is just sad. Like on so many levels. IMO, the Donahoe era was the last grasp the Bills had at relevancy prior to (maybe) McDermott/Beane. Then we got the recycling of the organization within Wilson's circle of trust into Pegula's learning curve. We had Levy, Brandon, Nix, and Whaley as GMs with Brandon presiding over Nix and Whaley, with very shaky head coaching. The organization's whole is more than the sum of its parts, and under such awful leadership, a "Vice President of College Scouting" isn't going to look great, nor is anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just now, May Day 10 said: IMO, the Donahoe era was the last grasp the Bills had at relevancy prior to (maybe) McDermott/Beane. Then we got the recycling of the organization within Wilson's circle of trust into Pegula's learning curve. We had Levy, Brandon, Nix, and Whaley as GMs with Brandon presiding over Nix and Whaley, with very shaky head coaching. The organization's whole is more than the sum of its parts, and under such awful leadership, a "Vice President of College Scouting" isn't going to look great, nor is anyone. Exactly. And this guy (macgyver) going full eeyore about bringing a highly respected personnel guy back just makes no sense to me. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Exactly. And this guy (macgyver) going full eeyore about bringing a highly respected personnel guy back just makes no sense to me. Yeah. Honestly, I dont even remember the hiring of Modrak because back then, I dont feel like we were so desperate to analyze every single move as if the fate of the organization hinged on it. Now, things are so magnified in our eyes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBillsBeliever Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 hour ago, MacGyver said: It's the meaningless feel good time of year, stories like this do nothing but raise false hope IMO. And you do nothing but mope, soooo, there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I knew he would he back and he is a great addition to pro personnel department Lots of people here trashed him when he was fired from Houston but he is solid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 hour ago, MacGyver said: So they'll win games now right? Not trying to pick a fight, but c'mon, lets not continue to be such a gullible fan base. Once it stops being fun, you should do something else. Are you having fun doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misterbluesky Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 28 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Didnt answer the Question. Compensation what are you giving up to get a player that has NEVER gotten 10 sacks a season? Shaq and Trent Combine for 8 sacks. 4 FF, 1 FR and 54 Tackles Clowney 9 Sacks 1 FF and 3 FR and 47 tackles. So what is your trade compensation for that AVG play? I get your point...the money part for those numbers is minus 6 million..give them a third for a reconstructed deal...payday in 2020,21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just now, NewDayBills said: Once it stops being fun, you should do something else. Are you having fun doing this? Doing what, pointing out that Bills fans keep falling for the same off season stories year after year? It's a public service more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just now, Misterbluesky said: I get your point...the money part for those numbers is minus 6 million..give them a third for a reconstructed deal...payday in 2020,21. OK now they are not going to trade him for a 3rd. and Why WOULD Clowney redo his deal to a cheaper 1 year deal again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Just now, MacGyver said: Doing what, pointing out that Bills fans keep falling for the same off season stories year after year? It's a public service more than anything. I don't believe you are a Bills fan. Why on God's green Earth are you posting here? You're here, there and everywhere posting doom and gloom. Just because you live a sorry life doesn't mean you should pull others down with you and negativity doesn't automatically equate to actuality. That's just your reality, not the world's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 hour ago, gobills1212 said: He wont ACTUALLY be in the building, but sure! Won't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: I don't believe you are a Bills fan. Why on God's green Earth are you posting here? You're here, there and everywhere posting doom and gloom. Just because you live a sorry life doesn't mean you should pull others down with you and negativity doesn't automatically equate to actuality. That's just your reality, not the world's. Ah, here we go, the "sorry life" BS, lmao. So predictable. I assume you will tell me to go root for another team soon. Bills have not proven they are good yet, that's all the reality that matters. Edited July 23, 2019 by MacGyver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, MacGyver said: Doing what, pointing out that Bills fans keep falling for the same off season stories year after year? It's a public service more than anything. and you wonder why you have to keep changing user names. guess what? some people just enjoy the game and can watch it without having their feelings hurt. ya know...for fun. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 41 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Didnt answer the Question. Compensation what are you giving up to get a player that has NEVER gotten 10 sacks a season? Shaq and Trent Combine for 8 sacks. 4 FF, 1 FR and 54 Tackles Clowney 9 Sacks 1 FF and 3 FR and 47 tackles. So what is your trade compensation for that AVG play? You have to look at the production per rush of Clowney which is right up there with the top guys in the league. He is just not used as a pure rusher in Houston. When they send him after the QB he creates havoc. But the one thing the Texans are loaded with is people who can get after the QB. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, MacGyver said: Ah, here we go, the "sorry life" BS, lmao. So predictable. I assume you will tell me to go root for another team soon. Bills have not proven they are good yet, that's all the reality that matters. Maybe you should stick to making bombs out of fruit and toothpicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 minute ago, MacGyver said: Ah, here we go, the "sorry life" BS, lmao. So predictable. I assume you will tell me to go root for another team soon. Bills have not proven they are good yet, that's all the reality that matters. Right, well we are 1-1 under McDermott. Meaning it can go either way, you're choosing the most negative outcome imaginable all across the board, which for some reason is realistic. Nevermind the great draft, free agent haul and some of our younger players over the last 2 years coming into their own. By the way, I would never tell you to root for another team, its clear the team you root for isn't the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 minute ago, NewDayBills said: Right, well we are 1-1 under McDermott. Meaning it can go either way, you're choosing the most negative outcome imaginable all across the board, which for some reason is realistic. Nevermind the great draft, free agent haul and some of our younger players over the last 2 years coming into their own. By the way, I would never tell you to root for another team, its clear the team you root for isn't the Bills. I've likely been a Bills fan longer than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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