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Zay Jones is Bills' most likely player to emerge on offense

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9 hours ago, NewCastleFanBills said:

Between Zay, Foster and Sills we may have to many good WRs and not enough spots.

Sills will be watching from the practice squad

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2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

Zay could still end up our number 1, honestly.

 

 

I am hoping to be able to change his nickname from Drop-Zone to End-Zone.

 

If he does significantly elevate his game it will be as a Keenan Allen style WR.......a guy whose game is greater than the sum of his skills..........because the raw skills aren't special if he's not catching everything he gets a hand on.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I am hoping to be able to change his nickname from Drop-Zone to End-Zone.

 

If he does significantly elevate his game it will be as a Keenan Allen style WR.......a guy whose game is greater than the sum of his skills..........because the raw skills aren't special if he's not catching everything he gets a hand on.

 

Ill admit, it wasn’t an aggressive endorsement of him as much as the acknowledgment that Beasley certainly shouldn’t be #1, brown hasn’t reliably proven to be that guy and foster is a huge wildcard. 

 

As a generally well rounded guy that led the unit in snaps last year.... even if unspectacular the depth chart could easily be zay, brown, Beasley, Foster.... or darn near 100% the opposite without zay playing substantially different

Edited by NoSaint
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5 hours ago, Rico said:

I'm hoping for something very right: Foster, Brown, and Zay turning out to be 3 stud WRs, then you play the 3 best & leave the gimmick player for a change of pace.

 

Jones is the gimmick in any offense.

4 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Sills ?

: )

core muscle surgery ?

 

 

BS surgery.  No reason he shouldn't be readynto go immediately.

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Zay should get a huge boost in production from the fact he is no longer our "#1" reciever. he is not good enough to continually beat a top CB but he might be good enough to beat lesser CB all day long.

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2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Zay should get a huge boost in production from the fact he is no longer our "#1" reciever. he is not good enough to continually beat a top CB but he might be good enough to beat lesser CB all day long.

 

.....he has a golden opportunity to "put up or start packing"........."carpe diem" lad....your choice..........

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I seriously believe Robert Foster will emerge into a bigger threat than Zay Jones ever will.

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I think Zay Jones will struggle to make this roster. He is a very bad route runner and he struggles to get open, he is like the opposite of Hines Ward. When he does catch the football he looks unspectacular and slow, his mental understanding of offensive concepts seems slow. I think by removing Jones and Croom you improve the team at their respective positions.

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21 hours ago, Flip Johnson said:

Good topic! I think Zay hasn't been discussed enough on this board.

I hope someone starts a thread with title "T.O. should be brought in to help Zay"!!

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13 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Sills will be watching from the practice squad

 

Yet strangely, on a power-5 team Sills' stats dwarfed Jones' TD production was nearly three times was Jones' was in their Jr/Sr seasons.  35/13 TDs.  

 

Also, with Sills being a considerable reason as to why WVU was 7-6 & 8-4 in the Big 12 while Jones was largely a non-factor in helping EC win games in their 5-7 and 3-9 seasons, largely mopping up stats in garbage time and in 5-spread formations that aren't common in the NFL.  

 

If Jones does much more than he did last season, I'll be pretty surprised.  

 

Catch % Career:  

 

Beasley 70.9%

Foster 61.4%

Brown 50.2%

Jones 47.2%   

 

Sills was around 55% according to nfl.com's draft profile:  

  • Just 55 percent of throws his way were completed

Otherwise, Jones' draft profile and Sills are comparable with the exception that Sills at least played against players that will be in the NFL.  

 

I'm far from convinced that this staff knows what to look for in WRs.  Here's the summary from Jones' profile at nfl.com, which I thought was favorable at the time, although the end-assessment I agreed with generally speaking;  

 

BOTTOM LINE

 Possesses high football character and a desire to push himself forward. Record-breaking receptions totals in 2016 were due more to scheme and excessive targets than separation ability or top-end speed. As a one-on-one receiver on the pro level, he will have to prove he has the speed and quickness to uncover against man coverage if he is to become more than just wide receiver depth.

 

The bolded was obvious from watching his highlight videos.  EC was usually playing from way behind in about half their games, garbage-time city.  The fact that our staff didn't manage to work that into their lofty calculations on Jones while making him their sole tenable WR prospect in four drafts now is worrisome to say the least.  

 

Beasley, Foster, and Brown will be the starters.  Again, an average bunch at best at the moment on paper.  The narrative on Brown, namely him being some great deep-threat WR doesn't match the reality of his 1/season TD catches of 30+ yards, only one of which has been in the past two seasons.  

 

As always, we'll see what happens. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I think Zay Jones will struggle to make this roster. He is a very bad route runner and he struggles to get open, he is like the opposite of Hines Ward. When he does catch the football he looks unspectacular and slow, his mental understanding of offensive concepts seems slow. I think by removing Jones and Croom you improve the team at their respective positions.

 

I agreed with this following last season, but given the team's refusal to address the WR position adequately, as I see it, with Jones having been the only WR that they've drafted now in four drafts in the first 5 rounds, and with Allen's progress and NFL status hanging in the balance it should be added, I'm not sure how they can afford to release him.  Which is telling.  

 

I mean Jones ranks among the absolute worst in the league in catch-% as you can see above, not even at 50% in two seasons.  He's scored TDs in only 7 games, 5 of which have been divisional games, with 4 against the Jets and Fins who've sucked, the other against the Pats in extreme garbage time down by 3 scores on one of the last plays of that futile game.  Only 3 have been in wins, two of which against Miami and the Jets, where needless to say, if we needed Jones to beat them, well, ...  

 

He won't start, at least not all season long, whether one of the other largely unknown commodity WRs beats him out for a depth spot remains to be seen.  Like many of us, I fully expected them to draft a WR in rounds 1-3, 2 or 3 anyway.  I have no idea what they're thinking.  This group of WRs, pending Foster's development, isn't even an average group on paper right now.  Same with the OL, it might be average, but it's not much more than that.  

 

I just don't think that they're supporting Allen anywhere near to the extent that they should have, or perhaps rather that what they have done while thinking that they did simply isn't going to cut it.  It's strange, because as Allen goes so too will Beane/McD go.  At least Whaley was smart enough to recognize that when he made that idiotic trade to draft up to get Watkins, he too simply didn't have a clue.  

 

We'll find out soon enough.  But seriously, for Brown, Beasley, and Jones, in 202 games with stats among them they've collectively posted a mere 8 100-yard games.  That translates to about one 100-yard game every 25 games among them, so based on that history, we should expect a 100-yard game from one of them every 8 games, or twice this season.  

 

In contrast, in 11 games last season with stats, only three as a starter, Foster put up three 100-yard games.  He had another of 94-yards, which best Jones' best game.  The questionable thing is that he only did that against the Jets (twice), Lions, and Jags, none of which were good teams, the Jets being particularly horrid.  Troubling is that in the other 7 games Foster had 24 targets, only 11 catches (45.8 catch %), for less than 19 ypg avg.  First time players often surprise as D's don't plan for/around them.  So we'll see how that develops.  

 

But as I see it, this team's passing game will go as Foster goes insofar as the WRs are concerned.  Beasley's a fine slot WR but he won't carry a team and doesn't play a WR position that Allen looks for first.  Brown's entirely overated and somewhere between a starter and depth player.  And Jones, as you indirectly imply, can only make the team due to the lack of viable WRs otherwise.  His salary is what's keeping him here.  He's cheap and therefore no-risk.  I mean WRs like him will be available at numerous points throughout the season on waivers.  

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23 hours ago, Forward Progress said:

Fake news!!  I read right on this web site that Zay won't be on the Bills roster this season.

 

That’s what you get.....for listening to us! 

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20 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

@Alphadawg7

 

If Zay does emerge in our offense,  you have to get this tattoo.

 

Image result for Buffalo Bills tattoo

I'd hate to know where all those eggs went......

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21 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

@Alphadawg7

 

If Zay does emerge in our offense,  you have to get this tattoo.

 

Image result for Buffalo Bills tattoo

 

This was pretty funny the first time someone did this joke...third time, not so much.  

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15 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Sills will be watching from the practice squad

 

Sills getting dinged up early did him no favors.  If Ray Ray can carry his momentum into camp, the WR battle is going to get even Moreno interesting.  I wonder if we stash sills in PS if someone would i ***** him, lots of teams wanted to bring him in after draft.  

 

I like Sills, so hoping he can come out strong in camp and preseason.  Different skill set than our other guys, but it won’t be easy for him to make the roster if guys like Duke and Ray Ray competing too.  

 

And as as far as Zay goes and the OP of this thread...like I said from day 1, I hope he proves my offseason skepticism wrong and becomes a big part of the team.   This article however is just an opinion piece by a writer, means nothing.  Zay has to prove it on the field, and he’s had a good start in OTAs, but I still want to see him hold his own when contact and real defense is being played.  

 

Cant wait to see Cole get on the field too, I think he’s going to be a huge asset for Josh if they can get their timing down.  

 

Go Bills!  

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19 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

Zay could still end up our number 1, honestly.

Yes he could if in fact the author of the original article is correct and he emerges but I just dont see him catching more than Beasley.

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On 6/8/2019 at 7:26 AM, Ronin said:

 

Yet strangely, on a power-5 team Sills' stats dwarfed Jones' TD production was nearly three times was Jones' was in their Jr/Sr seasons.  35/13 TDs.  

 

Also, with Sills being a considerable reason as to why WVU was 7-6 & 8-4 in the Big 12 while Jones was largely a non-factor in helping EC win games in their 5-7 and 3-9 seasons, largely mopping up stats in garbage time and in 5-spread formations that aren't common in the NFL.  

 

If Jones does much more than he did last season, I'll be pretty surprised.  

 

Catch % Career:  

 

Beasley 70.9%

Foster 61.4%

Brown 50.2%

Jones 47.2%   

 

Sills was around 55% according to nfl.com's draft profile:  

  • Just 55 percent of throws his way were completed

Otherwise, Jones' draft profile and Sills are comparable with the exception that Sills at least played against players that will be in the NFL.  

 

I'm far from convinced that this staff knows what to look for in WRs.  Here's the summary from Jones' profile at nfl.com, which I thought was favorable at the time, although the end-assessment I agreed with generally speaking;  

 

 

 

You're seriously putting Jones' career catch percentage (without one iota of context), comparing it to Sills college percentage, and drawing a conclusion?

 

THAT is a bizarre, and silly numbers game, there. 

 

Perhaps I could just throw out Jones' catch percentages for his last two games, (55.6%, and 66.7%, respectively) and proclaim that he improved towards the end of the season?

Perhaps I could cite his catch percentage in the Jets game (with Barkley throwing him the ball) of 72.7%, and his following game's percentage of 0.0% (only one target), and proclaim him WILDLY INCONSISTENT.

Perhaps I could cite his actually drop percentage (slightly under 3%-- lower than most of the top receivers in the 2018 league, btw), and declare that he is the second coming of Jerry Rice.

Perhaps I could cite how much different his numbers were when he was facing different defenses, or had different QBs throwing him the ball. 

Or, perhaps I could ignore all context, throw out one incomplete stat, and declare that Sills is a better NFL QB than Zay Jones.

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On 6/8/2019 at 6:55 AM, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I think Zay Jones will struggle to make this roster. He is a very bad route runner and he struggles to get open, he is like the opposite of Hines Ward. When he does catch the football he looks unspectacular and slow, his mental understanding of offensive concepts seems slow. I think by removing Jones and Croom you improve the team at their respective positions.

When did he become a "very bad route runner?" It is one of his strengths.

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4 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

When did he become a "very bad route runner?" It is one of his strengths.

you seem angry.. lol

  His College game gave the impression he would be a QB most trusted friend. and the he fell apart once in the NFL

it does seem Jones has been a polarizing figure since being drafted. with good reason. His 1st season and offseason may have been the very worst i have ever taken notice of.


yet even i think he is trending up. second year with Allen will do him and wonders.

 Hope he proves me wrong after all

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

you seem angry.. lol

  His College game gave the impression he would be a QB most trusted friend. and the he fell apart once in the NFL

it does seem Jones has been a polarizing figure since being drafted. with good reason. His 1st season and offseason may have been the very worst i have ever taken notice of.


yet even i think he is trending up. second year with Allen will do him and wonders.

 Hope he proves me wrong after all

I'm not angry, I'm drunk! (kidding)

Jones first season in the pros was terrible! 

 

 I was definitely one arguing that his position was not, and should not have been safe going into the 2018 season, regardless of where he was drafted, and I see him proving me wrong! And, I don't think there should be anything given to him this season.

 

That being said, at this point, I believe that he not only improved during the 2018 offseason, which was immediately evident at the outset of last season, I believe that he improved throughout last season. And I am not alone. I don't think I am saying anything particularly controversial. Zones had more targets last season than any other WR on the team, right up until week 17. I also think he just might be our most versatile WR, which, IMO, could make him our most valuable #2. 

 

He has also, very evidently, worked on his athleticism, and strength this offseason. That's a good thing-- perhaps he will be able to improve his catch radius, and ability to fight for contested ball, which I think are his two main deficiencies. To be honest, I don't see him as ever being a true #1 caliber WR. (I hope he proves me wrong, there, too!)

 

But, what does bother me about the Jones debate, are certain people's proclivity to crow about Foster's improvements, and athleticism, and Sills untapped, and unknown potential, while utterly ignoring the improvements Jones has made, and relying on stats that encompass his entire career, without acknowledging their upward trend, or providing an ounce of context to such stats. Of course, these sorts of debates occur on these threads all the time.  I just find that sort of debate dishonest.

Edited by Rocky Landing
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Is there any reason Sills went undrafted while Jones was a high 2nd?  Didn't any of these scouts read anything?

 

I think Sills projects to have a Will Fuller type career because of the V.

 

Note:. The above statement has just as much logic regarding the legend of Sills as any other ridiculous thing I've read.  Why people are rooting against Jones succeeding is baffling to me.  I hope they all do fantastic things, but if we're going on hunches my hunch is that Nick Easley will last longer than Sills.

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25 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Is there any reason Sills went undrafted while Jones was a high 2nd?  Didn't any of these scouts read anything?

 

I think Sills projects to have a Will Fuller type career because of the V.

 

Note:. The above statement has just as much logic regarding the legend of Sills as any other ridiculous thing I've read.  Why people are rooting against Jones succeeding is baffling to me.  I hope they all do fantastic things, but if we're going on hunches my hunch is that Nick Easley will last longer than Sills.

 

Easley and Sills (and to some extent, Duke) are this year's versions of the guys "everyone is rooting for."  The truth remains that all face extremely long odds to make the 53.

 

I suppose the hope is that one or more show enough to be kept on the PS.  I had high hopes for Austin Proehl last year and he wasn't very good (although he is currently on the Rams' PS).

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2 hours ago, eball said:

 

Easley and Sills (and to some extent, Duke) are this year's versions of the guys "everyone is rooting for."  The truth remains that all face extremely long odds to make the 53.

 

I suppose the hope is that one or more show enough to be kept on the PS.  I had high hopes for Austin Proehl last year and he wasn't very good (although he is currently on the Rams' PS).

Joe Vitti's abound.  Sometimes they can provide value and I hope they all do. I haven't seen much Easley hype but some on Williams and Sills infiltrates every thread.  I think I saw someone mention him in the best modern composer thread on OTW.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Is there any reason Sills went undrafted while Jones was a high 2nd?  Didn't any of these scouts read anything?

 

I think Sills projects to have a Will Fuller type career because of the V.

 

Note:. The above statement has just as much logic regarding the legend of Sills as any other ridiculous thing I've read.  Why people are rooting against Jones succeeding is baffling to me.  I hope they all do fantastic things, but if we're going on hunches my hunch is that Nick Easley will last longer than Sills.

 

There is a big difference about being honest about where Zay has struggled and "rooting against him".  His rookie year was a disaster on and off the field.  His second year was pretty uninspiring considering he was irrelevant in almost 70% of his games and saw an UDFA who had been cut come in and outshine him.  So people being honest and unbiased in the critique of what his resume has been up until now does NOT mean people are "rooting against him".  

 

That is one of my biggest pet peeves around here.  The moment you openly criticize a player you are labeled a "hater" and assumed to just want him to fail.  In fairness, there are people around here who get invested in being right about their negativity and will go to all lengths to try and "be right".  But with Zay, just about everyone I have seen who has been skeptical or critical based on his first 2 years are not rooting for him to fail.  

 

I really hope Zay takes a big step forward, that would be great for both the Bills and Josh specifically.  As far as Sills goes, I find it funny that people are upset that people like the kid and want to see what he does.  His story is pretty amazing and he is an easy guy to root for.  But some posters hate the optimism for some reason and like to mock peoples interest in seeing what he can do.  Ever weirder, its mostly the same people who mocked Foster all last year and yet he still emerged.  

 

So I honestly dont agree with anything you just wrote.  I dont see anyone being ridiculous with Sills, he was quite accomplished and one of the best WR's in College football the last 2 years and a big reason Will Grier was as a good as he was.  He's still raw, but he also has a different skill set that could be good for a WR group, so nothing wrong with rooting for the kid.  Same with Duke, everyone loves a good redemption story, and again he could be a nice compliment to the other WRs if he makes the team, so would be good to see him do it.  

 

Regardless of anyones opinions, the WR battle will be fun to watch and its getting more interesting with Ray Ray starting strong too.  If he can carry that into camp and preseason, the battle is going to be even deeper.  

Edited by Alphadawg7
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On 6/7/2019 at 4:11 PM, ChevyVanMiller said:

Zay Jones? I hardly recognized him with his clothes on.

Quoting an entire article for a 10 word response. I love it!

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