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Zay Jones is Bills' most likely player to emerge on offense

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On 6/7/2019 at 5:58 PM, Phil The Thrill said:

Sills will be watching from the practice squad

I think so to and honestly that is not a bad thing.....an unfortunate injury and we have some talent ready to be brought up.

Could we (gasp) actually have a decent WR core?

 

Unless Robert Foster takes that next step and becomes a legit  number one I see a bunch of "good" talent.......I will take that.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

There is a big difference about being honest about where Zay has struggled and "rooting against him".  His rookie year was a disaster on and off the field.  His second year was pretty uninspiring considering he was irrelevant in almost 70% of his games and saw an UDFA who had been cut come in and outshine him.  So people being honest and unbiased in the critique of what his resume has been up until now does NOT mean people are "rooting against him".  

 

That is one of my biggest pet peeves around here.  The moment you openly criticize a player you are labeled a "hater" and assumed to just want him to fail.  In fairness, there are people around here who get invested in being right about their negativity and will go to all lengths to try and "be right".  But with Zay, just about everyone I have seen who has been skeptical or critical based on his first 2 years are not rooting for him to fail.  

 

I really hope Zay takes a big step forward, that would be great for both the Bills and Josh specifically.  As far as Sills goes, I find it funny that people are upset that people like the kid and want to see what he does.  His story is pretty amazing and he is an easy guy to root for.  But some posters hate the optimism for some reason and like to mock peoples interest in seeing what he can do.  Ever weirder, its mostly the same people who mocked Foster all last year and yet he still emerged.  

 

So I honestly dont agree with anything you just wrote.  I dont see anyone being ridiculous with Sills, he was quite accomplished and one of the best WR's in College football the last 2 years and a big reason Will Grier was as a good as he was.  He's still raw, but he also has a different skill set that could be good for a WR group, so nothing wrong with rooting for the kid.  Same with Duke, everyone loves a good redemption story, and again he could be a nice compliment to the other WRs if he makes the team, so would be good to see him do it.  

 

Regardless of anyones opinions, the WR battle will be fun to watch and its getting more interesting with Ray Ray starting strong too.  If he can carry that into camp and preseason, the battle is going to be even deeper.  

So much LOL I don't know where to start but I'm sure you're rooting for Zay.

 

What constitutes a disaster on an off the field?  Are disasters irrecoverable?  Has there ever been a rookie WR on a team with a QB that didn't pass that had a worse season than Jones?

 

How is it that he was "outshined" by a receiver who had fewer receptions, yards and touchdowns?

 

Meanwhile Sills the miracle was one of the best receivers in college for two years running, is "very accomplished", gets all the credit for his QB's career and somehow gets passed over by every team in the league in all 7 rounds.  Clue: He was NOT one of the best receivers in college football in terms of being a pro prospect.

 

I was skeptical about Foster after the preseason drops but am now hopeful he can build on a good second half of 2018.  I am also rooting for Jones, Sills, Easley, Williams, McCloud, Brown and Beasley along with Croom, Kroft and the rookie who is holding out.

 

I do find it silly that a Zay Jones sucks thread was created and sillier that it has partially turned into a Sills is amazing thread.

Edited by 4merper4mer
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At least at this point we have all the bases covered. 

 

Zay will either be the Bills MVP or be cut this year, or something in between.  I’M CALLING IT NOW!!

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

So much LOL I don't know where to start but I'm sure you're rooting for Zay.

 

What constitutes a disaster on an off the field?  Are disasters irrecoverable?  Has there ever been a rookie WR on a team with a QB that didn't pass that had a worse season than Jones?

 

If you dont think Zays rookie year was terrible, I dont know what to tell you.  I was happy when we drafted him (even though I preferred local JuJu, I still also liked Zay).  I was excited about him after preseason...then he went out and couldn't catch a cold, cost us multiple games with drops, and had one of the worst catch rates in the league.  Then he tried to jump naked out of a 31 story window.  I dont know about you, but thats a disastrous first year in my book.  

 

And when did I say he couldn't recover from it?  Again, you are jumping to conclusions that were not said.  You know its ok to be HONEST about a players season without it automatically meaning he cant get better right?  Its also ok to be skeptical until then too.  

 

Quote

 

How is it that he was "outshined" by a receiver who had fewer receptions, yards and touchdowns?

 

Now this is just a silly thing to say.  Lets not pretend you dont know that Foster was cut and didn't emerge until after he was brought back.  You knew what I meant...he came back and then outshined Zay down the stretch including doing 3 times in 7 games what Zay has never done in 31 games...three 100 yard games.  

 

Quote

 

Meanwhile Sills the miracle was one of the best receivers in college for two years running, is "very accomplished", gets all the credit for his QB's career and somehow gets passed over by every team in the league in all 7 rounds.  Clue: He was NOT one of the best receivers in college football in terms of being a pro prospect.

 

Again, you are saying things I didn't say.  Please show me where I said he was one of the best pro prospects?  I said specifically he was one of the best WRs in college football, finalist for the top WR in college football too...and lets not forget that that was despite never playing WR before college.  And I said he was raw, which is why he didn't get drafted.  Yet a lot of the NFL is made up of players who weren't drafted.  

 

Quote

 

I was skeptical about Foster after the preseason drops but am now hopeful he can build on a good second half of 2018.  I am also rooting for Jones, Sills, Easley, Williams, McCloud, Brown and Beasley along with Croom, Kroft and the rookie who is holding out.

 

So after seeing Foster exceed your expectations last year (and probably Levi too) you don't think its a bit silly to just crap on this years UDFA's as if they have no chance to make this team?  Again, no one is saying Sills is a lock, but its ok for people to root for the kid or be excited to see him compete.  You are substantially over exaggerating what people are saying about Sills just like you are twisting things I said here to mean something they did not mean.  

 

Quote

 

I do find it silly that a Zay Jones sucks thread was created and sillier that it has partially turned into a Sills is amazing thread.

 

None of this last line is true.  There was a thread discussing why I felt Zays roster spot could be in jeopardy (started before FA and the Draft) based on expected off season moves.  In that thread some people have expressed excitement for Sills for example...then posters like you trash the idea that Sills could have a chance, and it makes people defend why they look forward to seeing what Sills can do.  Then posters like you translate that into meaning more than it does as if someone was implying Sills was a lock to make the roster, something no one has said.  

 

So sorry man, nothing personal...but you are making your own narratives up here.  No one really is rooting for Zay to fail and no one is saying Sills or even Duke is a lock for this roster.  But some of us are excited about their POTENTIAL and look forward to the battles on the field to see if they can show they can help this team, especially given the different styles guys like Duke and Sills could bring to compliment the other WRs.  

 

Edited by Alphadawg7

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11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

If you dont think Zays rookie year was terrible, I dont know what to tell you.  I was happy when we drafted him (even though I preferred local JuJu, I still also liked Zay).  I was excited about him after preseason...then he went out and couldn't catch a cold, cost us multiple games with drops, and had one of the worst catch rates (if not the worst) in the league.  Then he tried to jump naked out of a window.  I dont know about you, but thats a disastrous first year in my book.  

 

And when did I say he couldn't recover from it?  Again, you are jumping to conclusions that were not said.  You know its ok to be HONEST about a players season without it automatically meaning he cant get better right?  Its also ok to be skeptical until then too.  

 

 

Now this is just nonsense.  Lets not pretend you dont know that Foster was cut and didn't emerge until after he was brought back.  You knew exactly what I meant...he came back and then outshined Zay down the stretch including doing 3 times in 7 games what Zay has never done in 31 games...three 100 yard games.  

 

 

Again, you are saying things I didn't say.  Please show me where I said he was one of the best pro prospects?  I said SPECIFICALLY he was one of the best WRs in college football, finalist for the top WR in college football too...and lets not forget that that was DESPITE never playing WR before college.  And I said he was raw, which is why he didn't get drafted.  Yet a LARGE portion of the NFL is made up of players who weren't drafted.  

 

 

So after being wrong about Foster last year (and probably Levi too) you don't think its a bit silly to just crap on this years UDFA's as if they have no chance to make this team?  Again, no one is saying Sills is a lock, but its ok for people to root for the kid or be excited to see him compete.  You are GROSSSSSSSSSLY over exaggerating what people are saying about Sills just like you are twisting things I said here to mean something they did NOT mean.  

 

 

Except none of this last line is true.  There was a thread discussing why I felt Zays roster spot could be in jeopardy (started before FA and the Draft) based on expected off season moves.  In that thread some people have expressed excitement for Sills for example...then posters like you trash the idea that Sills could have a chance, and it makes people defend why they look forward to seeing what Sills can do.  Then posters like you translate that into meaning more than it does as if someone was implying Sills was a lock to make the roster, something NO ONE has said.  

 

So sorry man, nothing personal...but you are making your own narratives up here.  No one is rooting for Zay to fail and no one is saying Sills or even Duke is a lock for this roster.  But some of us are excited about their POTENTIAL and look forward to the battles on the field to see if they can show they can help this team, especially given the different styles guys like Duke and Sills could bring to compliment the other WRs.  

 

You have some reality issues if you think I am "crapping on" anyone along with some of your other comments above.  I am rooting for every single one of them to be great.  I crapped on no one.  I do find it odd that Sills name comes up over and over and over in threads like this that are about other players.  I don't trash the idea that he has a chance.  He is on the roster so he does.  I trash the idea that he made Will Grier what he is today and that his college career, which resulted in him being undrafted, gives him a better chance of making the roster than Jones.  That's a joke.

 

I do remember Jones drop in the Carolina game.  I agree he cost us that game because so many other people scored so many touchdowns and all Zay needed to do was add one more.  The whole offense was tremendous except for him.  If he had only been an average rookie we'd have won the Super Bowl.

 

In your wonderful Zay Jones sucks thread the OP lists all of his deficiencies and nary a positive trait, but we are now to believe you think and hope he can succeed?  You list his 7 deadly sins.  You list zero positive traits. You list zero specific rays of hope.  Your thread didn't exactly state "Zay's roster spit could be in jeopardy".  Look at its title dude.  It's ok to be invested in an opinion.  Just own it.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

You have some reality issues if you think I am "crapping on" anyone along with some of your other comments above.  I am rooting for every single one of them to be great.  I crapped on no one.  I do find it odd that Sills name comes up over and over and over in threads like this that are about other players.  I don't trash the idea that he has a chance.  He is on the roster so he does.  I trash the idea that he made Will Grier what he is today and that his college career, which resulted in him being undrafted, gives him a better chance of making the roster than Jones.  That's a joke.

 

You see there you go again, no one said that.  

 

Quote

 

I do remember Jones drop in the Carolina game.  I agree he cost us that game because so many other people scored so many touchdowns and all Zay needed to do was add one more.  The whole offense was tremendous except for him.  If he had only been an average rookie we'd have won the Super Bowl.

 

In your wonderful Zay Jones sucks thread the OP lists all of his deficiencies and nary a positive trait, but we are now to believe you think and hope he can succeed?  You list his 7 deadly sins.  You list zero positive traits. You list zero specific rays of hope.  Your thread didn't exactly state "Zay's roster spit could be in jeopardy".  Look at its title dude.  It's ok to be invested in an opinion.  Just own it.

 

 

 

And there it is again, just confirming what I said.  You cant seem to separate being honest about how we see something and "rooting for him to fail".  I mean you keep responding and literally confirming everything I just said.  

 

And If you want to make your mind up about the SUBSTANCE of the meaning of a thread based on YOUR interpretation of a meaning of a thread title, thats your choice.  My thread predicted a trade...the title reflect that. 

 

All good man, nothing personal, but not much more to discuss here.

Edited by Alphadawg7

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Zay seems like a player without a position. He is not quick enough for the slot and not fast enough or big enough to be a true #1.  Also he doesn't add any special teams help.

I think Brown/Foster compete for speed guy, Beasley is the slot, and that leaves Zay and Duke Williams. Foster has shown enough to keep and he is super cheap. So then it comes down to Zay and Duke. Both have had off field issues but appear to have moved on. Duke seems more explosive and Zay more versatile. 

Honestly and sadly, if Zay just caught the dam ball he would be a lock.

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On 6/9/2019 at 12:18 PM, Rocky Landing said:

Or, perhaps I could ignore all context, throw out one incomplete stat, and declare that Sills is a better NFL QB than Zay Jones.

 

It took you a while but you finally got it!

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22 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

That being said, at this point, I believe that he not only improved during the 2018 offseason, which was immediately evident at the outset of last season, I believe that he improved throughout last season. And I am not alone. I don't think I am saying anything particularly controversial. Zones had more targets last season than any other WR on the team, right up until week 17. I also think he just might be our most versatile WR, which, IMO, could make him our most valuable #2. 

 

This issue was partially coaching.  You did not see any evolution of his game the first year for he was being coached by his college coach and his reputation from NFL players who had him as coach were not good.  He recommended Zay and at end of season was canned.  Hopefully this is a sign current coach is better; at least one of the UDFAs choose Buffalo due to coach but that is not much different than Zay's position other than he could have deliberately tanked interview if he did not want to go to Buffalo.

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4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I think so to and honestly that is not a bad thing.....an unfortunate injury and we have some talent ready to be brought up.

Could we (gasp) actually have a decent WR core?

 

Unless Robert Foster takes that next step and becomes a legit  number one I see a bunch of "good" talent.......I will take that.

 a bunch of good talent works for me as well.

tis an improvement eh ? 

 : )

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and it is okay to be excited about rookies, UDFA and all the above.
 Let us revisit this discussion during TC.

 Love me some WR competition !

and super glad Bills got a new WR Coach !!

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6 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

and it is okay to be excited about rookies, UDFA and all the above.
 Let us revisit this discussion during TC.

 Love me some WR competition !

and super glad Bills got a new WR Coach !!

 

Agreed. And looking forward to the Oline competition as well. Very interested to see how that unfolds.

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Hmm, interesting.

 

when you say "emerge", you mean "STOP SUCKING"?

 

 

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Eh, I'll go with Singletary. Our backfield might be revolving around him by the end of the year, and I think we will be running the ball a lot more than throwing it. Zay will have a tougher time getting targets with the other options on the field and Singletary might end up the healthiest back pretty quickly.

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53 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

 

Agreed. And looking forward to the Oline competition as well. Very interested to see how that unfolds.

The newish Offense will be taking shape before our very eyes. this is the first year Beane invested in Daboll.

fairly exciting for a fan like me.

Allen will have a more in depth grasp and larger playbook.
spot on about O line

 For me that is even more important Bills have revamped recreated the O line. as mentioned .. plenty of "good"  receivers might get the job done.

 

Any thoughts on tailbacks ? I see positives and potential there as well 

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8 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Eh, I'll go with Singletary. Our backfield might be revolving around him by the end of the year, and I think we will be running the ball a lot more than throwing it. Zay will have a tougher time getting targets with the other options on the field and Singletary might end up the healthiest back pretty quickly.

If we are running the ball successfully for a change ? Pass catchers might be the beneficiaries. Beasley and Jones might have some fun this year running under and around zone cover if hey can run.
btw i can easily envision Shady and the HoF''r having some highlight reels with Devin to spell when D gets tired.
very positive out look from here

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On 6/9/2019 at 12:18 PM, Rocky Landing said:

Perhaps I could just throw out Jones' catch percentages for his last two games, (55.6%, and 66.7%, respectively) and proclaim that he improved towards the end of the season?

Perhaps I could cite his catch percentage in the Jets game (with Barkley throwing him the ball) of 72.7%, and his following game's percentage of 0.0% (only one target), and proclaim him WILDLY INCONSISTENT.

Perhaps I could cite his actually drop percentage (slightly under 3%-- lower than most of the top receivers in the 2018 league, btw), and declare that he is the second coming of Jerry Rice.

Perhaps I could cite how much different his numbers were when he was facing different defenses, or had different QBs throwing him the ball. 

Or, perhaps I could ignore all context, throw out one incomplete stat, and declare that Sills is a better NFL QB than Zay Jones.

 

You can do whatever you want.  Everyone else does.  

 

If that's a defense of Jones however, it's pretty pathetic.  

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Posted (edited)
On 6/9/2019 at 12:18 PM, Rocky Landing said:

You're seriously putting Jones' career catch percentage (without one iota of context), comparing it to Sills college percentage, and drawing a conclusion?

 

THAT is a bizarre, and silly numbers game, there. 

 

Perhaps I could just throw out Jones' catch percentages for his last two games, (55.6%, and 66.7%, respectively) and proclaim that he improved towards the end of the season?

Perhaps I could cite his catch percentage in the Jets game (with Barkley throwing him the ball) of 72.7%, and his following game's percentage of 0.0% (only one target), and proclaim him WILDLY INCONSISTENT.

Perhaps I could cite his actually drop percentage (slightly under 3%-- lower than most of the top receivers in the 2018 league, btw), and declare that he is the second coming of Jerry Rice.

Perhaps I could cite how much different his numbers were when he was facing different defenses, or had different QBs throwing him the ball. 

Or, perhaps I could ignore all context, throw out one incomplete stat, and declare that Sills is a better NFL QB than Zay Jones.

 

Ignore all context?  You serious?  LOL  What you seem to have done there is to ignore anything that doesn't suit you.  And after all, we know that only Jones played against tough Ds, none of the other WRs in the league did, in fact, none of the other WRs on our team did either apparently.  Good humor.  It's always fun reading here.  Particularly as the season progresses.  

 

BTW, you are aware that Jones ranks among the worst in the NFL in catch%, aren't you?  

 

If not, you may want to add that to your repertoire of whatever it is you just said there.  

 

He improved notably from '17 to '18, yet last season ('18) he ranked 176th (out of 202) in catch%.  Up from 210th (out of 212) in '17.   A whole lot of people here don't seem to think that that's relevant.  

 

As to Sills, I think it' speaks, screams actually, volumes that Sills put up a TD for every 3.8 catches.  Whereas Jones put up a TD in one of every 17.3 catches.  Have fun with that one.  

 

Sills put up a TD for every 60 receiving yards, Jones put up on for every 186, over three times as many, and the competition that Jones' faced isn't even worth mentioning in the same breath as that which Sills faced in the Big 12.  

 

Sills scored a TD in 68% (over two-thirds) of his games.  Jones scored a TD in 41%.  

 

Jones was one of the most overrated WRs to be drafted in years. 

Edited by Ronin

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2 hours ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Eh, I'll go with Singletary. Our backfield might be revolving around him by the end of the year, and I think we will be running the ball a lot more than throwing it. Zay will have a tougher time getting targets with the other options on the field and Singletary might end up the healthiest back pretty quickly.

Ah. Yes. Slipped my mind. If Singletary is the real deal, he's definitely a top candidate. 

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31 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

Ignore all context?  You serious?  LOL  What you seem to have done there is to ignore anything that doesn't suit you.  And after all, we know that only Jones played against tough Ds, none of the other WRs in the league did, in fact, none of the other WRs on our team did either apparently.  Good humor.  It's always fun reading here.  Particularly as the season progresses.  

 

BTW, you are aware that Jones ranks among the worst in the NFL in catch%, aren't you?  

 

If not, you may want to add that to your repertoire of whatever it is you just said there.  

 

He improved notably from '17 to '18, yet last season ('18) he ranked 176th (out of 202) in catch%.  Up from 210th (out of 212) in '17.   A whole lot of people here don't seem to think that that's relevant.  

 

As to Sills, I think it' speaks, screams actually, volumes that Sills put up a TD for every 3.8 catches.  Whereas Jones put up a TD in one of every 17.3 catches.  Have fun with that one.  

 

Sills put up a TD for every 60 receiving yards, Jones put up on for every 186, over three times as many, and the competition that Jones' faced isn't even worth mentioning in the same breath as that which Sills faced in the Big 12.  

 

Sills scored a TD in 68% (over two-thirds) of his games.  Jones scored a TD in 41%.  

 

Jones was one of the most overrated WRs to be drafted in years. 

The weirdest thing about this post is that it was written without a shred of irony.

 

Yes, context. 

Yes, I am aware of Zay Jones' catch percentage. I'm also aware of his drop rate. I'm also aware of all the other things that provide context to such stats.

But, all the other things you point out in this post? They also provide context. Don't try to hit me with some straw-man argument that I am some die-hard Zay Jones fan trying to pump him up to something greater than the sum of his parts. I'm not. Nor am I going to ignore all of the things about Sills that you are pointing out. And that's what makes posts like yours so useless. In the same post that you accuse me of "ignoring anything that doesn't suit me," (i'm not) you utterly ignore anything that doesn't suit your crusade.

It's exhausting, and an utter waste of time.

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2 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

If we are running the ball successfully for a change ? Pass catchers might be the beneficiaries. Beasley and Jones might have some fun this year running under and around zone cover if hey can run.
btw i can easily envision Shady and the HoF''r having some highlight reels with Devin to spell when D gets tired.
very positive out look from here

With the influx of meat eaters this year, we better be running it successfully. I will not be surprised given the olders guys' contract situations if Singletary gets in there he may get the lions share in the second half of the season.

 

My outlook isn't so rosy this year in general, I see a lot of new faces that have to get in sync, a quarterback that still needs time to develop and I still need to see Beane bring in some useful FA's for the offense. Seems like he has done the last bit, but the proof will be during the season and if the offense is still bottom part of the league that's not helping his professional resume given the amount of effort and money he spent.

 

Overall I'm bullish, but the first half of the year might be an adventure. I am really hoping McDermott can cut down on all the penalties this year, for me that will help josh and the whole offense function more effectively.

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5 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Ah. Yes. Slipped my mind. If Singletary is the real deal, he's definitely a top candidate. 

 

I don't know why our staff is obsessed with small-school players at the top of the draft on days 1 and 2.  Jones, Allen, Oliver, and Singletary.  That's four of our 10 day 1/2 picks on their watch, which doesn't include the extra day 1/2 picks traded to get Allen.  

 

Singletary as I see it is the RB version of Zay Jones.  

 

Gawdy numbers against nothing competition.  Of his 22 TDs, 5 were against Bethune-Cookman this past season, a whipping-boy team, which is about as nothing a team as an FBS team can play.  They're an FCS team that has seen a mere two of its players drafted since 2000, both DBs, in 2003 and 2005.  

 

If I wanted to gather some insight as to how he might play in the NFL I'd take a strong look at his splits and how he played against the ACC, Big Ten, and Big 12, the only power-5 schools that he played.  

 

He had 44 carries for 162 yards (3.68 YPC) and two TDs in three games for an average of 15 carries, 54 yards, and less than a TD/game.  That's a far-cry from his 6.0 YPC average overall and his 6.15 YPC otherwise.  I have a difficult time believing that he's going to excel in the NFL, especially when I read things like this in his draft profile at nfl.com; 

 

  • Play speed tends to be monotone throughout the rep
  • Rarely keeps runs play-side and looks for early cuts
  • Excessive cuts will be met with earlier tackles from swarming, NFL defenders
  • Will need to learn to run a more disciplined track
  • Tendency is to bounce it to his left

Even reminds me of that RB we used to have that used to dance around in the backfield, was it Bryson?  Those to me are worrisome issues and not something that seems destined for NFL greatness.  They're difficult things to coach in if they can be at all.  As a three-down RB I simply don't see it.  What I can see is him possibly becoming a good receiver out of the backfield as a role-player ala Darren Sproles.  I'm not at all a big fan of Bama RBs, but in this case, and if they really had to have a RB here, I'd have taken Damien Harris.  I don't see him being great either but I do see him being better than the diminutive Singletary.  

 

Here's the thing, if Singletary does develop on this team as a receiver it'll be half a miracle since we ranked 31st in Yards-After-the-Catch last season.  The reason is clear, that Allen's always looking deep for the big plays that he overlooks the high-percentage gimme stuff underneath.  McCoy averaged fewer than 15 receiving yards-per-game last season with Allen as the QB.  Ivory averged just over that, for about 30 recvg. ypg and fewer than 3 catches/game between 'em.  None of the other RBs did anything significant in the receiving game.  So I'm not sure how that translates to Singletary doing much as a receiver OOTB.  

 

That's what the staff is going to have to do to fix Allen, is get him to throw more dump-offs and high-percentage passes where he lacks touch as well.  If they can do that I will be impressed.  

 

We'll see tho, this time of year hope abounds.  

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

I don't know why our staff is obsessed with small-school players at the top of the draft on days 1 and 2.  Jones, Allen, Oliver, and Singletary.  That's four of our 10 day 1/2 picks on their watch, which doesn't include the extra day 1/2 picks traded to get Allen.  

 

Singletary as I see it is the RB version of Zay Jones.  

 

 

 

 

I hope you're wrong, but I fear you're right. The measurables are a huge concern, but I do like that he has a nose for the endzone. The dream scenario is a Travis Henry like impact. I didn't like the pick, but time will tell as they as. 

 

With RB's, you generally know right away what you have, so he certainly has a chance to breakout. If he's the real deal, he shouldn't have any problem taking carries from Gore/McCoy.

Edited by LSHMEAB

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

The weirdest thing about this post is that it was written without a shred of irony.

 

Yes, context. 

Yes, I am aware of Zay Jones' catch percentage. I'm also aware of his drop rate. I'm also aware of all the other things that provide context to such stats.

But, all the other things you point out in this post? They also provide context. Don't try to hit me with some straw-man argument that I am some die-hard Zay Jones fan trying to pump him up to something greater than the sum of his parts. I'm not. Nor am I going to ignore all of the things about Sills that you are pointing out. And that's what makes posts like yours so useless. In the same post that you accuse me of "ignoring anything that doesn't suit me," (i'm not) you utterly ignore anything that doesn't suit your crusade.

It's exhausting, and an utter waste of time.

 

You seem confused.  

 

What's exhausting is watching and listening to people such as yourself defend what our FO does despite any indications that they may not be doing the right things to build a team, and having this go on for 20 years.  Then, at the end of a season like this one everyone wants to drop nukes on OBD.  It's beyond comical.  

 

So if you want to talk about "crusades," try not hitting up one of the few people actually calling a spade a proverbial spade simply because you don't like it much less agree with it.  That's a crusade, having to listen to pep rallies until it's obviously to a drunken sot what predictable realities really are.  

 

NFL history provides a wealth of data, information, patterns, and trends.  Unfortunately most fans around the NFL prefer to be blind to those things.  Those that heed them are labeled, in mob-rule crusade fashion.  So if you want to talk about crusades, try starting there.  

 

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people have so little emotional control that even simple arguments turn them into raving lunatics.  

 

I mean people talk about Singletary as if diminutive small school RBs come to the NFL all the time and light it up when that rarely happens.  It doesn't happen, the opposite happens, and there are a large number of reasons for it, reasons that people ignore.  

 

You can believe whatever you want to, which most people here and elsewhere do anyway preferring the "ignorance is bliss" route.  Your points were about Jones, but it's the same thing.  I can't believe that anyone really thinks at this point that Jones is or ever will be anything but a 3rd or 4th WR in the future, here or anywhere. 

 

But in order to have a rational discussion, which so few here seem to want to do as this place is far more a place to hold perpetual pep-rallies, one simply cannot take that ignorance is bliss approach.  

 

Still, I have no idea what your overall point is, you haven't even approached making it clear other than to make it clear that no matter what I say you'll have an issue with it.  

 

Again, "crusade," ... start there.  

 

Anyway, goodbye.  If I don't respond to you henceforth it's because I'm not seeing your posts.  Don't take it the wrong way, I just don't want to see your posts anymore.  I have neither the time nor the inclination to figure out what, specifically, the point you are trying to make is.  LOL  

Edited by Ronin

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4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I hope you're wrong, but I fear you're right. The measurables are a huge concern, but I do like that he has a nose for the endzone. The dream scenario is a Travis Henry like impact. I didn't like the pick, but time will tell as they as. 

 

I hope I'm wrong too, but there's no way that his rushing impact is like Henry's.  There's absolutely nothing in his draft profile that even hints at that.  Henry was a much bigger RB too.  

 

Here's the thing, if you're going to be a diminutive rusher in the NFL, you'd better have speed.  I've watched his highlight reels and that speed simply isn't there.  It's just not.  He's regularly caught by players that weren't even the fastest in college and I doubt any of them will even make the NFL as starters. He doesn't have anywhere close to enough corner speed to beat NFL edge guys.  I pointed out his stats against the three power-5 teams, against which he had only two TDs.  Well the Oklahoma TD was in an absolute rout and came at the end of the game against OU's third string.  It was irrelevant.  The other was a 1-yard run in an otherwise completely lackluster performance with negative receiving yards.  

 

I'm also not the only one to notice his speed issue.  nfl.com's draft profile says this;  

  • Lacks top-end speed to run away from opponents in space

That much is clear from watching him.  Keep in mind, that's not against Clemson, Bama, and OSU, it's against largely teams with no defense in the CUSA otherwise.  So it seems highly unlikely that'll change with the bump up to the NFL where many linemen will be faster than the LBs and DBs that he saw in college.  

 

Anyway, he was a 4th (at best) or 5th round prospect by most and there were a slew of comparable RBs left on the board.  I don't think that it was a wise use of a draft pick at that spot much less an efficient one.  The people that want to think that he's the next Shady or whomever should do so while they still can.  

 

Here's the other thing, if Singletary does excel in the receiving game I have a very difficult time believing that it's going to be under a QB that all but ignored his RBs out of the backfield last year and was easily by far and away the worst QB in the entire league in that way.  It simply makes no sense for that to happen.  I mean honestly, so many things have to happen for that to be the case that it's unreasonable to think that they all will.   That's the primary problem with Allen, in college too, he tries to be superman, doing it all himself, either heaving deep balls or running.  You've gotta understand as a QB that you need to rely on the rest of your team and utilize them to the max degree.  He's far from that and has never done that.  But if Singletary is going to make a splash as a receiver, Allen's going to have to change colors.  

 

The closer and closer we get to the season the more and more I'm starting to be interested in the progression in this forum from September to December.  I have a strong hunch that we're going to go from how Beane is finally a GM that "gets it" alongside McD knowing what he's doing, to being all but burned at the stake with everyone wanting to burn down OBD and send the Pegulas packing.  LOL  

 

I sincerely hope that's not the case, I hope that Allen makes corrections that no other QB has made before with the ultimate success, I hope that our 2nd-rate starting WRs play well above their heads, that Knox is that diamond in the rough that everyone's hoping for, that what is an average OL according to PFF's ratings actually plays better than that, the McCoy's age doesn't do to him what it does to just about every RB at 31, that Gore still has something left at 37, that Singletary otherwise steps in to replace what he and Shady once were, that Oliver, who rarely beats double-teams and often struggled against OL-men that won't be playing anywhere this fall steps up and as a diminutive DT that played inferior competition that has no chance of ever making it to the NFL does so in the NFL, then on defense to have a defense that ranked 30th in the red zone will make monster leaps for some inexplicable reason, that a D that lost one of its three primary pass-rushers along with one at the age of 36 now who has only logged sacks and pass-pressure inconsistently along with a third that at 31 now hasn't eclipsed the 7-sack mark in four seasons will for some reason improve their 26th ranking in sacks without having added any proven sack artists, etc.  

 

Just seems like a whole lot that has to happen that is unlikely.   It's too much for me to think that it's all going to come together.  Particularly when Morse, our biggest free-agent addition is already hurt after having missed 14 of 32 games the past two seasons.  He's had several concusssions, singificant foot injuries, and now this, whatever this is other than to know that they've said that they hope he's ready for camp.  As I said following the draft, who plays C if Morse can't, what, Bodine again?  Aren't we all but back to square one then?  

 

And of course we're going to have injuries to our starters, all teams do, including us every season.  I mean where can we really afford to lose a starter?  I don't see anywhere.  

 

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