Article says "Ravens QB Jackson didn't know about new offense for 2019 season

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Allen was a lot like that too.  I’m not saying who is better (though I lean towards Allen).  But it’s crazy how easy some of you are to pass judgment on another qb and get upset when someone does that with Allen.  

 

Making concrete judgments on any first year qb is kinda insane.  

I agree that Allen ran, but he really is a QB first and then a runner.  

 

Pre Draft LJ was last on the list of QB's I wanted in Buffalo.   

 

Lamar is a better running QB than Tyrod  ergo TT 2.0.  

 

It's just not the recipe for success in a "passing" league 

[eball]

13 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

 

Had they gone 6-10 last year with a long standing history of poor football, I think there would be more criticism. 

 

That's probably true.  It will be interesting to see what happens with them this season.  I know which way I think it will go...

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

my 2 cents 

 

The Ravens were competitive because the Browns SUCKED so much.

2 easy wins helps go a long way 

Edited May 30, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan

[GoBills808]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

This stuff with Lamar (grip issues, OTA accuracy issues, now this new scheme stuff) might not be a big deal, but it isn’t what you want to be reading about your QB going into Year2 — a vital year.

 

I imagine how well Bills fans would take hearing these things wrt Allen

 

I think it’s not so much ‘Our QB doesn’t know how to grip the ball properly’ as it is ‘our QB doesn’t know how to explain things without sounding like he doesn’t know what’s going on’ type deal in Bmore. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

I agree that Allen ran, but he really is a QB first and then a runner.  

 

Pre Draft LJ was last on the list of QB's I wanted in Buffalo.   

 

Lamar is a better running QB than Tyrod  ergo TT 2.0.  

 

It's just not the recipe for success in a "passing" league 

I had Lamar and Allen similarly ranked for their draft.  Loved some of their tools, worried if they can be consistently good enough as nfl passers.  I definitely believe Allen has the skills to be a much better passer than Lamar but both go against similar gameplans this year.  Keep them in the pocket, take away the deep stuff, and force them to beat you with underneath throws.  

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

but are ready to call Jackson a bust after a season which he played on the playoffs?

 

Yeah, he played. Did you watch the game?

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah, he played. Did you watch the game?

Yup.  Wasn’t very good like plenty of other rookie QBs.  But isn’t making fun of a guy playing in the playoffs when you aren’t kinda like the dork at home making fun of people at the prom? 

[Rochesterfan]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yes, those Ravens. The same ones that won their division last year. The Ravens are a consistently competitive team. If I had to guess they are probably the most successful AFC team against the Patriots since their domination the past two decades. 

 

The Bills aren't consistently competitive. They wouldn't get the benefit of the doubt with Lamar. I am a fan of the Bills. But those are the facts. Sorry eball. 

 

 

Don’t guess because that would be way wrong.  Tom Brady has owned Baltimore with a 6-1 record in the regular season.  Denver is the only team that has fared well at nearly 0.500 and then Miami.

 

Baltimore has been more consistent, but they have also been in a division with Cleveland and not NE for the last 2 decades and that really impacts total wins and loses as much as anything.

[YoloinOhio]

12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

I think it’s not so much ‘Our QB doesn’t know how to grip the ball properly’ as it is ‘our QB doesn’t know how to explain things without sounding like he doesn’t know what’s going on’ type deal in Bmore. 

He really needs to change his grip. He grips at the end of the ball and also looks like he has no grip strength when you watch him play.

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

He really needs to change his grip. He grips at the end of the ball and also looks like he has no grip strength when you watch him play.

 

 

Good thing that OTAs means nothing.  As much media as there is now, I miss the days when no one cared about practice. 

2 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

Don’t guess because that would be way wrong.  Tom Brady has owned Baltimore with a 6-1 record in the regular season.  Denver is the only team that has fared well at nearly 0.500 and then Miami.

 

Baltimore has been more consistent, but they have also been in a division with Cleveland and not NE for the last 2 decades and that really impacts total wins and loses as much as anything.

The Steelers have been pretty awesome. The Jets and the fins suck.  It balances out.  The Ravens have been a good franchise. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

The only way Lamar is going to win a SB is if the Ravens somehow re-create that 2000 Ravens defense. 

 

I thought Taylor had the worst field vision before I watched Lamar play. His throwing motion, feet, accuracy and field vision are easily the worst I have ever seen from a starting QB. If the Raven’s run a no huddle offense at any point during the season I will eat my shoe.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Call_Of_Ktulu

[eball]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yup.  Wasn’t very good like plenty of other rookie QBs.  But isn’t making fun of a guy playing in the playoffs when you aren’t kinda like the dork at home making fun of people at the prom? 

 

I don't understand the implication that Bills fans should sit meekly in the corner and shouldn't dare critique other organizations or players.  Where is that coming from?

[KD in CA]

Still laugh remembering the small but might band who kept that thread going for months pumping Jackson pre-draft.   26 Cut 'n Paste thought Belichick was going to draft him!

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, eball said:

 

I don't understand the implication that Bills fans should sit meekly in the corner and shouldn't dare critique other organizations or players.  Where is that coming from?

Because the same fans criticizing Jackson cry when someone does that to Allen.  I have my doubts about Allen, as I do about Jackson.  But they played a year.  It’s crazy to say how good they will be at this point.  

 

The only qb from that class I am pretty sure will be really good is Baker.  The rest of a lot to prove. 

Just now, KD in CA said:

Still laugh remembering the small but might band who kept that thread going for months pumping Jackson pre-draft.   26 Cut 'n Paste thought Belichick was going to draft him!

He still played in playoff game!  Why are people acting like he is the biggest bust ever?

[eball]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Because the same fans criticizing Jackson cry when someone does that to Allen.  I have my doubts about Allen, as I do about Jackson.  But they played a year.  It’s crazy to say how good they will be at this point.  

 

The only qb from that class I am pretty sure will be really good is Baker.  The rest of a lot to prove. 

 

 

And this upsets you why?  Are you now the self-appointed arbiter of fairness in QB critiques?

 

I can't wait to see the conversation in here when Mahomes and the Chiefs' offense regress this season -- which they are almost certain to do.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

10 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

Still laugh remembering the small but might band who kept that thread going for months pumping Jackson pre-draft.   26 Cut 'n Paste thought Belichick was going to draft him!

 

Lets not forget the Wrong Josh threads.  Cut 'n Paste loved Rosen too.  He gave up defending Rosen very late in the season.   Oh and Jimmy Garappolo.  Still lots of man love there.  

 

 

[Gugny]

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

You'd def be hearing that if he was on the Bills.....but I think the Ravens and Lamar deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

They are a consistently solid football team who know what they are doing with respect to player personnel.... and Lamar was a big reason for why they made a run to the playoff spot last season. 

 

 

 

He's also the sole reason they did nothing in the playoffs.  They bit their nose off to spite their face by keeping Flacco on the sidelines.  Getting rid of Flacco was downright stupid.

 

They way that Lamont needs to play football (improvise) is not sustainable.  Never has been and will continue not to be.

[HappyDays]

25 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It’s crazy to say how good they will be at this point.  

 

Why is it "crazy" to watch two players play, evaluate the context and progress, and make predictions about who will end up better?

[GoBills808]

25 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Because the same fans criticizing Jackson cry when someone does that to Allen.  I have my doubts about Allen, as I do about Jackson.  But they played a year.  It’s crazy to say how good they will be at this point.  

 

The only qb from that class I am pretty sure will be really good is Baker.  The rest of a lot to prove. 

He still played in playoff game!  Why are people acting like he is the biggest bust ever?

 

If you watch Jackson play it’s pretty obvious how limited his game is. 

[C.Biscuit97]

51 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

He's also the sole reason they did nothing in the playoffs.  They bit their nose off to spite their face by keeping Flacco on the sidelines.  Getting rid of Flacco was downright stupid.

 

They way that Lamont needs to play football (improvise) is not sustainable.  Never has been and will continue not to be.

Flacco was 4-5 and had the same qb rating as Jackson.  Flacco is definitely a better passer but Jackson provided a spark to that team.

47 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Why is it "crazy" to watch two players play, evaluate the context and progress, and make predictions about who will end up better?

We get offended because not everyone thinks Allen is going to be great.  I’m sure Ravens fans can break down every throw Jackson made and find similar excuses where it wasn’t his fault. 

 

Our qb averaged 172 yards passing a game.  It wasn’t exactly Baker Mayfield.  I do think Allen will be better but glass houses.  

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Flacco was 4-5 and had the same qb rating as Jackson.  Flacco is definitely a better passer but Jackson provided a spark to that team.

 

QBs don't have W-L records; teams do.  And I have no faith, nor belief, in QB ratings.  I will not deny that Jackson provided a spark.  But leaving him in that playoff game was nothing short of asinine. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Good thing that OTAs means nothing.  As much media as there is now, I miss the days when no one cared about practice. 

The Steelers have been pretty awesome. The Jets and the fins suck.  It balances out.  The Ravens have been a good franchise. 

 

^ this guy

 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

And this upsets you why?  Are you now the self-appointed arbiter of fairness in QB critiques?

 

I can't wait to see the conversation in here when Mahomes and the Chiefs' offense regress this season -- which they are almost certain to do.

I just hate hypocrisy and people who talk out of both sides of their mouth. Easiest thing for me to do (like I used and what a lot of people do here) is make every excuse for Allen and pretend like I wanted him all along.  Then the cult wouldn’t attack me have a different opinion.  Hypocrites are the worst.  

 

And i I have no idea what the Mahomes’ point means?  If he doesn’t throw 50 tds, he isn’t good or something? Weird point. 

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

QBs don't have W-L records; teams do.  And I have no faith, nor belief, in QB ratings.  I will not deny that Jackson provided a spark.  But leaving him in that playoff game was nothing short of asinine. 

I mean I get your point but at that point, he’s your future.  If Allen was in a playoff game would we want him pulled? He sucked that game but actually made a few plays at the end.  

 

But i I fully agree he has a lot of work to do as a passer to be good enough. Tyrod did look fairly good in a Roman offense.

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

^ this guy

 

^ this guy ?

[Heitz]

13 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I will not deny that Jackson provided a spark.  But leaving him in that playoff game was nothing short of asinine. 

 

I watched that game in an airport - had a blast watching / chatting with Ravens fans as they dumped on their Playoff QB!  And if they were, the non-Ravens fans were 100x worse ?

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, Heitz said:

 

I watched that game in an airport - had a blast watching / chatting with Ravens fans as they dumped on their Playoff QB!  And if they were, the non-Ravens fans were 100x worse ?

 

It was one of the worst QB performances, ever.  It was Peterman-esque.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

It was one of the worst QB performances, ever.  It was Peterman-esque.

A little dramatic.  https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1021524-the-worst-qb-playoff-performances-in-nfl-history.amp.html

 

the great Flacco went 13-30 for 141 yards, 3 ints and a 18 QB rating. 

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

A little dramatic.  https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1021524-the-worst-qb-playoff-performances-in-nfl-history.amp.html

 

the great Flacco went 13-30 for 141 yards, 3 ints and a 18 QB rating. 

 

Not dramatic at all.  He was pathetic for the entire game.  And I'm not comparing him to Flacco, or anyone else.  I'm just saying that the dude sucks.  And he REALLY sucked that day.

[K-9]

6 hours ago, JohnC said:

When the Ravens drafted Lamar Jackson and especially after dealing Flacco the staff understood that he wasn't a conventional qb. That being so the metrics to judge him and his progress understandably would not be the standard evaluation that you would use on most qbs. I may be wrong and presumptuous but I doubt that he will ever be a pocket qb who goes through progressions. But that doesn't mean that he and the team can't be successful in their own unconventional way. 

 

I respectfully disagree with you that the Ravens aren't viewed by most people as a more successful/solid franchise than the Bills have been over the past decade or so. Hopefully, that perception and reality will soon change. But under Ozzie (now departed) and with Harbaugh as the coach this franchise has consistently been good and recognized for its competency. 

Disagree. If he can’t operate out of the pocket consistently, he has no chance of succeeding in this league. Zip, zero, nada, none. It really is that simple. 

 

Oh, they can design various gimmicks to hide the fact he can’t operate from the pocket and that will buy him some time in the league. But once teams “make him be a quarterback”, it’s all over as a starter. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by K-9

[JohnC]

39 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Disagree. If he can’t operate out of the pocket consistently, he has no chance of succeeding in this league. Zip, zero, nada, none. It really is that simple. 

 

Oh, they can design various gimmicks to hide the fact he can’t operate from the pocket and that will buy him some time in the league. But once teams “make him be a quarterback”, it’s all over as a starter. 

He is not going to be a pocket passer who goes through progressions. That is not to say he can't make initial reads but there is a limitation to his ability to play in a conventional offense. His style of play is going to be different from the standard style of qb play in the NFL. Will it work? I'm not sure. 

 

The point of my prior post is that when you have a Lamar Jackson type of qb you can't run a Flacco type offense. You have to adjust the offense to suit the unconventional player. Will Jackson's limitations eventually be exposed and catch up with him? Probably so. But when the Ravens (Ozzie) drafted him they were well aware of what he could do and not do. Apparently there were willing to work with his limitations and strengths. 

 

 

[K-9]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

He is not going to be a pocket passer who goes through progressions. That is not to say he can't make initial reads but there is a limitation to his ability to play in a conventional offense. His style of play is going to be different from the standard style of qb play in the NFL. Will it work? I'm not sure. 

 

The point of my prior post is that when you have a Lamar Jackson type of qb you can't run a Flacco type offense. You have to adjust the offense to suit the unconventional player. Will Jackson's limitations eventually be exposed and catch up with him? Probably so. But when the Ravens (Ozzie) drafted him they were well aware of what he could do and not do. Apparently there were willing to work with his limitations and strengths. 

 

 

Well, I am sure and it won’t work. At least not for long. 

 

A QB must be able to operate from the pocket predominantly because the pocket offers more of the field to exploit and forces defenses to defend more area. If a QB can’t do that, it just makes it too easy for defenders. DCs don’t just defend what you can do, they they defend what you can’t do as well. 

 

I don’t believe for a second that the Ravens didn’t think they could develop him into a pocket passer as they designed schemes to maximize his other talents in the meantime. But those schemes are too simplistic in the long run and defenses will force him to beat them from the pocket sooner or later. If he shows he can, he can have a long career. If he can’t, he won’t. Like I said, it’s that simple.

[YoloinOhio]

True Freshman Eddie O vs Lamar 

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

True Freshman Eddie O vs Lamar 

 

 

 

...smart move for Harbaugh to sign his extension quickly....stay tuned..............

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

True Freshman Eddie O vs Lamar 

 

 

Louisville was the 5th ranked team in the country going into that game? Unbelievable.

[LSHMEAB]

Jackson wasn't nearly as bad in that playoff game as the absurd miscues would lead one to believe. He threw for 194 yards 2 TD's/1 pick and ran for another 54 as the youngest player to ever start a playoff game. They were dead in the water, crowd begging for Joe, and he almost brought them all the way back. They lost by 6 points. The 3 fumbles, however, were unacceptable and ultimately cost them the game. His percentage was also terrible and he dug them into the hole in the first place. It wasn't ALL bad though.

 

Josh Allen has far more upside as an all around QB, but the Jackson stuff is a little over the top.

[GoBills808]

17 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Jackson wasn't nearly as bad in that playoff game as the absurd miscues would lead one to believe. He threw for 194 yards 2 TD's/1 pick and ran for another 54 as the youngest player to ever start a playoff game. They were dead in the water, crowd begging for Joe, and he almost brought them all the way back. They lost by 6 points. The 3 fumbles, however, were unacceptable and ultimately cost them the game. His percentage was also terrible and he dug them into the hole in the first place. It wasn't ALL bad though.

 

Josh Allen has far more upside as an all around QB, but the Jackson stuff is a little over the top.

 

You can’t just use those stats though, that was the definition of garbage time. Jackson cost them that game 100%. He was awful when it mattered. Ravens defense was the only reason that game was close enough for him to get some positive statistics when it was out of their reach...I mean their first half possessions went punt fumble punt punt INT punt. He was laughably bad that game.

[Rochesterfan]

11 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

It's more like 8-3 for NE including playoffs. But that 6-1 regular season record fits your argument better so I get it.?

 

Two of those games were the AFC championship game in which Baltimore won one and should've won the other if not for Lee Evans. 

 

If your argument is the Ravens have been more consistent in wins because they play Cleveland twice then you are lost.

 

The Bills play the Dolphins and Jets ever year. *****, the 4-12 Jets beat the Bills IN BUFFALO last season.

 

Ravens are just a better run organization. 

It's not even arguable.

 

 

 

 

It is not my argument you flat out stated: 

 

20 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

If I had to guess they are probably the most successful AFC team against the Patriots since their domination the past two decades. 

 

 

And I am pointing out in the regular season they are 1-6 - if they had played them nearly as many time as the Bills that would equate to 3-18 compared to the Bills 3-20 during that stretch.  Not exactly successful- so you are flat out wrong.  Even if you include the playoff wins - they are no where near the most successful AFC team versus the Pats during this run.

 

Add in the fact that they play 0.500 against Pittsburgh and Cincinnati and beat the Browns at the same pace the Pats have beat the Bills.  The Bills are playing 0.500 ball against the Fins and Jets and then dominated by the Pats.  The Divisions matter.  During Harbaughs’s time they were a consistently good team early - the last four  years have been up and down with both the Bills and the Ravens making the playoffs once and the biggest difference being the one to two extra wins the Ravens get against their division rather than the Pats.

 

But that is all theoretical- my point is you made a statement above to prove a point that Baltimore is probably the most successful AFC team versus the Pats and that is just false.

 

Sorry

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13.

 

[LSHMEAB]

18 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

 

You can’t just use those stats though, that was the definition of garbage time. Jackson cost them that game 100%. He was awful when it mattered. Ravens defense was the only reason that game was close enough for him to get some positive statistics when it was out of their reach...I mean their first half possessions went punt fumble punt punt INT punt. He was laughably bad that game.

Garbage time? Didn't they have the ball with a chance to win the game? Jackson fumbled. I'm sure you remember that part.

 

There's no debate that he was abysmal in the first half, but it seems like quite a few people forgot they play 2.

Edited May 31, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Garbage time? Didn't they have the ball with a chance to win the game? Jackson fumbled. I'm sure you remember that part.

 

There's no debate that he was abysmal in the first half, but it seems like quite a few people forgot they play 2.

 

He was garbage the whole game. Racked up stats when it was out of reach. It was one of the worst performances by a QB I’ve ever seen and I’ve seen some bad ones. He looked clueless as did their whole offense. 

 

Seriously, rewatch it. They were running one-read high school concepts and while some of that was the Chargers defense it was also 100% a testament to how bad Jackson was.