LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, Doc said: How about this stat: the Cheaters have virtually the same winning percentage with and without the Cretin? Brady has started for 18 seasons, 9 with Gronk and 9 without. He has 3 rings with Gronk and 3 without. Did he really make them much better or as I said before was it the best coach and QB ever that got them 6 rings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, Doc said: How about this stat: the Cheaters have virtually the same winning percentage with and without the Cretin? 4 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Ok, Gronk caught 397 passes that got a first down, Tony caught 864 passes that netted a first down. Your stat and Tony kills him in another one. Receiving yards for a career Tony ranks 5th, Gronk ranks 104th. He only played in 115 games, not nearly enough to put him in the discussion for best TE ever. Sorry, gents. He was the tight end of the most dominant dynasty in NFL history and has the same number of Super Bowl rings as Tony Gonzalez has children. He led the league in TDs once (entire league; not just tight ends); he was comeback player of the year; and he was a 4 time first-team All Pro (not that Pro Bowl garbage). I'm not saying he was a better TE than Gonzalez. I am absolutely saying that he accomplished more and he's a walk-in first ballot Hall of Famer. You just have sand in your kitties because he wasn't a Bill. If he was, you'd have loved him. Just like you should, anyway. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Gugny said: Sorry, gents. He was the tight end of the most dominant dynasty in NFL history and has the same number of Super Bowl rings as Tony Gonzalez has children. He led the league in TDs once (entire league; not just tight ends); he was comeback player of the year; and he was a 4 time first-team All Pro (not that Pro Bowl garbage). I'm not saying he was a better TE than Gonzalez. I am absolutely saying that he accomplished more and he's a walk-in first ballot Hall of Famer. You just have sand in your kitties because he wasn't a Bill. If he was, you'd have loved him. Just like you should, anyway. I’m glad he's stepping away, and has apparently been very smart with his money. The guy came in goofy, I’d hate to see him leave TOO goofy. Have a great life! . Edited March 25, 2019 by Augie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, ricko1112 said: Yup. All the cheap shots opponents put on him game after game. He was grabbed, tackled, and pummeled on every play. 9 years of abuse and he only let his emotions get the better of him one time... You don't think that was earned? Gronk pushed off more than any other player that I can recall to get open, and got away with it. I'd imagine a lot of defenders knew this and got pissed off. Gronk has nothing to cry about. Good riddance to that neanderthal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Gugny said: Sorry, gents. He was the tight end of the most dominant dynasty in NFL history and has the same number of Super Bowl rings as Tony Gonzalez has children. He led the league in TDs once (entire league; not just tight ends); he was comeback player of the year; and he was a 4 time first-team All Pro (not that Pro Bowl garbage). I'm not saying he was a better TE than Gonzalez. I am absolutely saying that he accomplished more and he's a walk-in first ballot Hall of Famer. You just have sand in your kitties because he wasn't a Bill. If he was, you'd have loved him. Just like you should, anyway. Pfft....he played with the best QB ever, for his entire career. Very much like the careers of fellow teammates Wes Welker, Julian Edelman & heck even Deion Branch, Tom made them much better than they would've been elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, ricko1112 said: Yup. All the cheap shots opponents put on him game after game. He was grabbed, tackled, and pummeled on every play. 9 years of abuse and he only let his emotions get the better of him one time... Get bent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ForMacAdoo Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, stony said: He cheap-shotted Tre, but he'll go down as one of the best three athletes to come out of Buffalo ever. Spahn, Gronk & Kane. Rank em how you want. I'd rank Bob Lanier (Bennett High School, St. Bonnie) and Randy Smith (Buff State and NBA Buffalo Braves, who also could have been a professional soccer player) right up there with the best of them. Imho, Randy Smith was one of the greatest athletes ever in any sport 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Absolutely agree Boat, 115 games is not enough and durability was an issue with Gronk after his first 2 years. Like I said before it's like comparing Calvin Johnson(Who played 9 years) & Jerry Rice. Yards per game go to Calvin, but career easily goes to Rice. Yeah but Rice played before QB's were given skirts, DB's were allowed to interfere and offenses were opened-up. 12 minutes ago, Gugny said: Sorry, gents. He was the tight end of the most dominant dynasty in NFL history and has the same number of Super Bowl rings as Tony Gonzalez has children. He led the league in TDs once (entire league; not just tight ends); he was comeback player of the year; and he was a 4 time first-team All Pro (not that Pro Bowl garbage). I'm not saying he was a better TE than Gonzalez. I am absolutely saying that he accomplished more and he's a walk-in first ballot Hall of Famer. You just have sand in your kitties because he wasn't a Bill. If he was, you'd have loved him. Just like you should, anyway. Sorry Gugs but if your presence doesn't mean jack ***** to your team winning or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 As much as I can't stand him for the Tre White BS, Gronk is arguably the greatest TE ever. But arguing that the Pats success during his career somehow makes him better (or diminishes another TEs career that wasn't a Pat) makes no sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 19 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said: Ernie Banks must have sucked. Different sport. Stats are very important in MLB, mostly irrelevant in the NFL other than W-L. I would never try to throw any shade on Ernie Banks... I would say Phil Rizzuto had a better career, but that’s just me, GO YANKEES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Force Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, 2ForMacAdoo said: I'd rank Bob Lanier (Bennett High School, St. Bonnie) and Randy Smith (Buff State and NBA Buffalo Braves, who also could have been a professional soccer player) right up there with the best of them. Imho, Randy Smith was one of the greatest athletes ever in any sport Not sure if anyone mentioned Christian Laettner....he would definitely be top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Magnum Force said: Not sure if anyone mentioned Christian Laettner....he would definitely be top 10. I’d say Laettner was #1 for most in need of a punch in the face. Gronk was #1 for most in need of a kick in the nuts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Pfft....he played with the best QB ever, for his entire career. Very much like the careers of fellow teammates Wes Welker, Julian Edelman & heck even Deion Branch, Tom made them much better than they would've been elsewhere. "But the only players in league history with more touchdown catches before turning 30 are Hall of Famers Randy Moss and Jerry Rice, according to ESPN's Stats & Information research." **From an article on gronk** He was a ridiculous tight end. Great all around blocking and receiving. He was an great tight end prospect who came with a significant red flag of injury risk. You act like he was some dumpster diving trash tight end coming out of college. He was a lock for the first round if he didn't have the serious injury concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ForMacAdoo Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Magnum Force said: Not sure if anyone mentioned Christian Laettner....he would definitely be top 10. Yep, Laetner played at Nichols High School. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 32 minutes ago, freddyjj said: Glad he is getting out with full use of his faculties, as limited as they were to begin with. ? Glad Tre White still has full use of HIS... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ForMacAdoo Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said: "But the only players in league history with more touchdown catches before turning 30 are Hall of Famers Randy Moss and Jerry Rice, according to ESPN's Stats & Information research." **From an article on gronk** He was a ridiculous tight end. Great all around blocking and receiving. He was an great tight end prospect who came with a significant red flag of injury risk. You act like he was some dumpster diving trash tight end coming out of college. He was a lock for the first round if he didn't have the serious injury concerns. Thank God we drafted an injury risk free Torell Troup in lieu of Gronk...oh wait... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Force Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 If you include Rochester...I know it's a stretch lol....Jon Bones Jones is arguably the best MMA fighter of all time. And don't forget Baby Joe Mesi lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: "But the only players in league history with more touchdown catches before turning 30 are Hall of Famers Randy Moss and Jerry Rice, according to ESPN's Stats & Information research." **From an article on gronk** He was a ridiculous tight end. Great all around blocking and receiving. He was an great tight end prospect who came with a significant red flag of injury risk. You act like he was some dumpster diving trash tight end coming out of college. He was a lock for the first round if he didn't have the serious injury concerns. Moss played in 215 games, Jerry Rice played in 303 games and Gronk played in 115 games. A good part of being in the discussion of an all time great is longevity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 We never could stop him. Bottom line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Force Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Ok back to the topic....glad Gronk retired....wish it was Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 What’s the over/under on how many seconds it would take Gronk to win over Hammer’s lot? One blink, or two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 30 minutes ago, ricko1112 said: Yup. All the cheap shots opponents put on him game after game. He was grabbed, tackled, and pummeled on every play. 9 years of abuse and he only let his emotions get the better of him one time... I know, right? I wish the league would have let him wear a weapon on one of his arms so he could have at least defended himself against the onslaught this behemoth of a man faced from much smaller DBs and LBs. At least once he should have just assaulted one of those smaller men for trying hard to defend him. I mean, what gives? Playing him physically in the NFL? Totally out of line. Seriously, poor Gronk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Magnum Force said: Ok back to the topic....glad Gronk retired....wish it was Brady. Wait....back to the target, tag! Then off to the next target? Brady? Just trying to keep up after you corrected our course. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Force Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Augie said: Wait....back to the target, tag! Then off to the next target? Brady? Just trying to keep up after you corrected our course. ? It has to happen someday right? lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Ultimately, few (if any) positions have a definitive #1 all time. rarely is the most naturally gifted also both the healthiest and on the best team. That gronk is very near the top of two of those is enough to deserve the conversation but not enough to close the conversation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rico said: Different sport. Stats are very important in MLB, mostly irrelevant in the NFL other than W-L. I would never try to throw any shade on Ernie Banks... I would say Phil Rizzuto had a better career, but that’s just me, GO YANKEES! If the sport being different didn't matter you would not have brought up Scooter, which is a great comparison/talking point. Better career vs. better player is a great distinction. Gronk beats Gonzalez on both. Ernie crushes Phil on one, Phil crushes Ernie on the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Moss played in 215 games, Jerry Rice played in 303 games and Gronk played in 115 games. A good part of being in the discussion of an all time great is longevity. I don't disagree. Dominance plays a part in the discussion too. Megatron in his prime was the most dominant wr ever. Jim brown and Barry Sanders dominated more emmit Smith. As said earlier koufax, and I'll include Pedro Martinez were more dominant in their prime stretches than Nolan Ryan. Shaq was the most dominant force in the NBA during his best seasons. A shorter but more dominant career has to be taken into account as well as longevity. They both matter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Rico said: ***** you Gronk and ***** everybody that looks like you. Me Gonk....me have no skills beyond football....me wrestle.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Force Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, Rico said: I’d say Laettner was #1 for most in need of a punch in the face. Gronk was #1 for most in need of a kick in the nuts. Ok this was the funniest post of the night lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said: I don't disagree. Dominance plays a part in the discussion too. Megatron in his prime was the most dominant wr ever. Jim brown and Barry Sanders dominated more emmit Smith. As said earlier koufax, and I'll include Pedro Martinez were more dominant in their prime stretches than Nolan Ryan. Shaq was the most dominant force in the NBA during his best seasons. A shorter but more dominant career has to be taken into account as well as longevity. They both matter. They're taken into account as to why he'll be a HOF'er. Best ever...no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said: I don't disagree. Dominance plays a part in the discussion too. Megatron in his prime was the most dominant wr ever. Jim brown and Barry Sanders dominated more emmit Smith. As said earlier koufax, and I'll include Pedro Martinez were more dominant in their prime stretches than Nolan Ryan. Shaq was the most dominant force in the NBA during his best seasons. A shorter but more dominant career has to be taken into account as well as longevity. They both matter. In reality he had 4 very good seasons, the others 546, 790, 592, 540 & 682. Let's take Charles Clay's 2013-2017 seasons 759, 605, 528, 552 & 558. Side by side the stats look pretty similar don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Doc said: They're taken into account as to why he'll be a HOF'er. Best ever...no. Better blocker than Tony g and Gates More dominant during his time playing He top 3 with Gates and Gonzalez, and it's really just about what your value more when ranking them. If I had to win one game I'd take prime gronk over either. Just like id take prime Shaq over any other center. 3 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: In reality he had 4 very good seasons, the others 546, 790, 592, 540 & 682. Let's take Charles Clay's 2013-2017 seasons 759, 605, 528, 552 & 558. Side by side the stats look pretty similar don't they? No. They don't. Those seasons gronk played like 6-10 games. Clay played 13+ every one of them. Gronk was pulling twice the yardage per game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Better blocker than Tony g and Gates More dominant during his time playing He top 3 with Gates and Gonzalez, and it's really just about what your value more when ranking them. If I had to win one game I'd take prime gronk over either. Just like id take prime Shaq over any other center. 4 dominant years in his career and your putting him up with the best of all time, sorry just can't do it with that small of a window of being dominant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Would you accept Gronk into the mafia? Or demand an apology for the dick move he pulled on Tre first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: 4 dominant years in his career and your putting him up with the best of all time, sorry just can't do it with that small of a window of being dominant. Especially when his presence didn’t mean much with respect to his team winning 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Ultimately, few (if any) positions have a definitive #1 all time. rarely is the most naturally gifted also both the healthiest and on the best team. That gronk is very near the top of two of those is enough to deserve the conversation but not enough to close the conversation Things aren't black-and-white, even though people want them to be. Productivity and longevity alone don't mean someone was the best, although it can be difficult to argue against. Stats help us bring objectivity into the discussion, but it's ultimately such a subjective analysis. Therefore, I hate Rob Gronkowski. He was a terrible tight end. The end. Edited March 25, 2019 by Richard Noggin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Nextmanup said: Best TE the game has ever seen. Without a doubt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, Doc said: Especially when his presence didn’t mean much with respect to his team winning Learn football. Watch some games. Seriously. 3 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: 4 dominant years in his career and your putting him up with the best of all time, sorry just can't do it with that small of a window of being dominant. Most receiving TDS in the NFL since 2010. That's not a small window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, Doc said: Especially when his presence didn’t mean much with respect to his team winning Nope same win percentage and same 3 Super Bawl wins during his 9 year career and the 9 years that proceeded him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 25 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Moss played in 215 games, Jerry Rice played in 303 games and Gronk played in 115 games. A good part of being in the discussion of an all time great is longevity. You are forgetting about Gronk’s 16 post-season games (an entire season of playoff football) in which he caught 12 TD passes and accumulated over 1200 yards on about 80 receptions. And three Super Bowl rings. 3 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Nope same win percentage and same 3 Super Bawl wins during his 9 year career and the 9 years that proceeded him. Other than Tom Brady, Gronk was easily the best player on the most dominant NFL dynasty of all time. Your suggestion that he wasn’t a difference-maker is one of the worst takes of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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