Robert Kraft charged in prostitution ring bust ( Update: Kraft legal team accused of lying in court)

[Gugny]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

 

It's all about the video for Bobby.  Like you said, the "punishment" is a wrist-slap.  The real punishment is the embareassment of the video being made public.

 

4 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

And it'll be all his fault for turning down the State Attorney's generosity.

 

Admitting guilt opens himself up to very unclear, inconsistent punishment from the NFL.  I think he'd be crazy to do that.  It's not unreasonable to think that his legal team will be able to, in the end, have Kraft freed/acquitted of all charges AND keep the video from being released.

 

If they can accomplish that, the NFL really can't do much, if anything, to Kraft.

[Mr. WEO]

17 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

I don't know, but the deal sounds very reasonable to me:

 

 "The Palm Beach State Attorney’s Office confirmed Tuesday that it had offered to drop the misdemeanor charges for soliciting prostitution against Kraft and 24 other men, if they agreed to perform 100 hours community service, attend a class about the negative effects of prostitution, pay a $5,000 fine per count, and admit they would have been found guilty in court".

-Boston.com

 

It's a total wrist-slap.... A mature adult who got caught literally with their pants down takes this deal.

 

 

Yeah that deal was offered over a month ago.  Has anyone taken it?

5 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

 

Admitting guilt opens himself up to very unclear, inconsistent punishment from the NFL.  I think he'd be crazy to do that.  It's not unreasonable to think that his legal team will be able to, in the end, have Kraft freed/acquitted of all charges AND keep the video from being released.

 

If they can accomplish that, the NFL really can't do much, if anything, to Kraft.

 

 

They weren't even required to admit guilt (that would have been simply pleading to the initial charges against them).

 

They are being offered "no charge" deal, but have to say publicly that they would have been found guilty at trial.. Obviously that offer made all their lawyers say:  "LOL, nah".

[Rocky Landing]

15 hours ago, JohnC said:

Again, you are missing the point. I don't care if those arrested are destitute or billionaires. This case for a minimally charged violation may involve legally questionable "pretext" traffic stops and a questionable surveillance application/warrant. This case should be dropped not only for the prominent rich guy but also for the other nondescript defendants who lack resources. In addition, those people in a private setting who were video taped without their knowledge should be upset. And don't be surprised if they legally respond to this intrusion into their private dealings.

 

With respect to the second highlighted segment related to the application of the same standard under the law that concept also applies to the legal authorities. What Kraft and his legal representatives are challenging is how the police conducted themselves. Are you against him having the right to do so? Are you arguing that the police authorities couldn't/shouldn't be challenged? If you are then you have an odd interpretation of the rights of the accused, rich or poor.  

 

 

 

   

These are all good points. I am certainly NOT against challenging how the police conduct themselves. And, more than anything, the videotaping in a place where people should be able to have a reasonable expectation of privacy is disturbing. But, of course, video surveillance occurs all the time in places where there is a reasonable suspicion of a felony, and as far as I know, the only people who are saying there wasn't a reasonable suspicion are Kraft's lawyers. I believe that goes for all of the technicalities on which they are trying to get this case thrown out. And, I'm just not willing to take their word for it, any more than I am willing to take the DA's word for it. This is what courts are for.

 

One other thing: this is not a "minimally charged violation." It's a misdemeanor-- a crime. In what scenario does a DA offer a deal to have misdemeanor charges dropped, the defendant declines, and the DA drops them anyway? Well, the answer is: when the defendant has so much money that they can make it too costly for the DA to prosecute. And, that is my original point.

[#34fan]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

 

Admitting guilt opens himself up to very unclear, inconsistent punishment from the NFL.  I think he'd be crazy to do that.  It's not unreasonable to think that his legal team will be able to, in the end, have Kraft freed/acquitted of all charges AND keep the video from being released.

 

If they can accomplish that, the NFL really can't do much, if anything, to Kraft.

 

Yah, but if the happy ending is released on video it torpedoes all this legal posturing by Kraft's team... Even if he is eventually acquitted of the charges, the NFL (and everyone else) will have a birds-eye view of everything he did.  -That could lead to punishment from the league regardless of the court's ruling.  -And backlash from people like me, who will print stills of the incident on T-shirts, and wear them to Bills-Pats games.

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

Yah, but if the happy ending is released on video it torpedoes all this legal posturing by Kraft's team... Even if he is eventually acquitted of the charges, the NFL (and everyone else) will have a birds-eye view of everything he did.  -That could lead to punishment from the league regardless of the court's ruling.  -And backlash from people like me, who will print stills of the incident on T-shirts, and wear them to Bills-Pats games.

 

Gonna show Krafts O=Face?

 

 

[#34fan]

11 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

Yah, but if the happy ending is released on video it torpedoes all this legal posturing by Kraft's team...

 

I also question the strength of any discipline coming from Kraft's buddy Goodell... He's a filthy rich loveable old fart who just happens to own the league's flagship franchise, and employ the league's darling QB...  I think Kraft's whole fight is about ego, and public perception... -Quite literally, "link or it didn't happen".

[Jobot]

Florida DA is totally screwed in this case.. They basically made false/illegal claim of a sex trafficking claims (which were not true) to illegally obtain videos, and is now leaking information to try and get Kraft to crack and take a plea deal.  Kraft doesn't give a F, and is going to make annihilate them with his legal resources.

[JohnC]

25 minutes ago, Jobot said:

Florida DA is totally screwed in this case.. They basically made false/illegal claim of a sex trafficking claims (which were not true) to illegally obtain videos, and is now leaking information to try and get Kraft to crack and take a plea deal.  Kraft doesn't give a F, and is going to make annihilate them with his legal resources.

The last paragraph and the last sentence in this link support your comment about the fraudulent basis for the warrant to tape. That's the conclusion made by the Boston Globe who are now disassociating themselves from its initial pursuit of the sex tapes.

 

Kraft and the others caught in the surveillance are not the central issue in this tawdry affair. The bigger issue than paying to be stroked is the inappropriate conduct of the criminal justice authorities. In addition, if there are leaks coming out of the police and prosecuting offices about what's on the tapes and the case in general before there is a trial then that conduct is outrageous and merits an internal investigation. Intimidation and essentially blackmail by the public authorities should not be tolerated. That's where the outrage should be directed towards. 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/boston-globe-withdraws-from-legal-fight-to-obtain-robert-kraft-video/ar-AABbEv6

[Doc]

3 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Gonna show Krafts O=Face?

 

 

 

At his age, it's more like a Q face.

 

2 hours ago, Jobot said:

Florida DA is totally screwed in this case.. They basically made false/illegal claim of a sex trafficking claims (which were not true) to illegally obtain videos, and is now leaking information to try and get Kraft to crack and take a plea deal.  Kraft doesn't give a F, and is going to make annihilate them with his legal resources.

 

They weren't able to prove sex trafficking, but there were signs and spas are notorious for this.  But there is absolutely no evidence that the DA investigated under false pretenses.  That's just stuff Bobby's lawyers want you to believe.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Doc

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

These are all good points. I am certainly NOT against challenging how the police conduct themselves. And, more than anything, the videotaping in a place where people should be able to have a reasonable expectation of privacy is disturbing. But, of course, video surveillance occurs all the time in places where there is a reasonable suspicion of a felony, and as far as I know, the only people who are saying there wasn't a reasonable suspicion are Kraft's lawyers. I believe that goes for all of the technicalities on which they are trying to get this case thrown out. And, I'm just not willing to take their word for it, any more than I am willing to take the DA's word for it. This is what courts are for.

 

One other thing: this is not a "minimally charged violation." It's a misdemeanor-- a crime. In what scenario does a DA offer a deal to have misdemeanor charges dropped, the defendant declines, and the DA drops them anyway? Well, the answer is: when the defendant has so much money that they can make it too costly for the DA to prosecute. And, that is my original point.

 

 

What felony?

 

It's really not going to take truckloads of money to challenge the prosecutors evidence, is it?  Couldn't a PD do the same thing?

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

At his age, it's more like a Q face.

 

 

They weren't able to prove sex trafficking, but there were signs and spas are notorious for this.  But there is absolutely no evidence that the DA investigated under false pretenses.  That's just stuff Bobby's lawyers want you to believe.

 

They knew days, not months after the cameras were rolling that there was no human trafficking, yet the camera kept rolling.  So by the time Booby and the dozens of other perps rolled into view, there was no credible pretense for "proving sex trafficking"....

Edited May 10, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[Rocky Landing]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

What felony?

 

It's really not going to take truckloads of money to challenge the prosecutors evidence, is it?  Couldn't a PD do the same thing?

As I understand it, the surveillance warrant was based on a reasonable suspicion of human trafficking. As far as I know, the only people disputing that are Kraft's lawyers.

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

As I understand it, the surveillance warrant was based on a reasonable suspicion of human trafficking. As far as I know, the only people disputing that are Kraft's lawyers.

 

 

As far as I know, none of the other dozens of those charged have taken the plea offer.  And a similar sting in a nearby county just saw the video evidence tossed by the court.

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

As far as I know, none of the other dozens of those charged have taken the plea offer.  And a similar sting in a nearby county just saw the video evidence tossed by the court.

Interesting to hear about the nearby county. I believe I skimmed an article (in Rolling Stone, maybe?) that had words about there being spurious warrants in FLA regarding prostitution. It's hard for me to make assumptions about police misconduct based on the statements made by the lawyers of billionaires. But, I believe that Rolling Stone has a pretty goos record regarding investigative journalism. I'm on the fence regarding Kraft-- at least, as it applies to this thread.

 

That being said, as someone who is squarely middle class (albeit, in Los Angeles, where the cost of living is quite high), a $5,000 fine, 100 hours of community service, and a bogus class would strike me as cheaper than a competent lawyer (which might not pan out), or the problems that come with a criminal conviction.

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Interesting to hear about the nearby county. I believe I skimmed an article (in Rolling Stone, maybe?) that had words about there being spurious warrants in FLA regarding prostitution. It's hard for me to make assumptions about police misconduct based on the statements made by the lawyers of billionaires. But, I believe that Rolling Stone has a pretty goos record regarding investigative journalism. I'm on the fence regarding Kraft-- at least, as it applies to this thread.

 

That being said, as someone who is squarely middle class (albeit, in Los Angeles, where the cost of living is quite high), a $5,000 fine, 100 hours of community service, and a bogus class would strike me as cheaper than a competent lawyer (which might not pan out), or the problems that come with a criminal conviction.

 

 

You would think.  But he (and others) smell blood in the water and don't want to admit guilt (or that "they would have been found guilty in court") yet...

 

Also, many defense lawyers quoted in the press as far back as a week after the bust were commenting that the video could be challenged.  It's not just "billionaire's lawyers".  It's a lot of legal commenters saying the same thing since this story broke.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[Rocky Landing]

9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

You would think.  But he (and others) smell blood in the water and don't want to admit guilt (or that "they would have been found guilty in court") yet...

 

Also, many defense lawyers quoted in the press as far back as a week after the bust were commenting that the video could be challenged.  It's not just "billionaire's lawyers".  It's a lot of legal commenters saying the same thing since this story broke.

Link?

 

Let me tell ya, having a misdemeanor on your record is a lot more trouble than one might think. I narrowly avoided one some years back, only because a good friend of mine is a lawyer, and handled it for me. But, had I been nailed, I would be kicked off my son's Cub Scout pack as a Scout Leader. I would be barred from entering Canada. Many of my freelance jobs would be at risk. Depending on who you are, a misdemeanor record can be a serious pain in the ass. Even if a decent lawyer cost $2,500 (half the fine), or was even free (not that I would trust a free lawyer!), I don't think I would take the risk.

[LSHMEAB]

18 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Link?

 

Let me tell ya, having a misdemeanor on your record is a lot more trouble than one might think. I narrowly avoided one some years back, only because a good friend of mine is a lawyer, and handled it for me. But, had I been nailed, I would be kicked off my son's Cub Scout pack as a Scout Leader. I would be barred from entering Canada. Many of my freelance jobs would be at risk. Depending on who you are, a misdemeanor record can be a serious pain in the ass. Even if a decent lawyer cost $2,500 (half the fine), or was even free (not that I would trust a free lawyer!), I don't think I would take the risk.

Yeah. We're not big on forgiveness as a society. Sad really that people get shunned for one instant of poor judgement, but I digress. Kraft should fight tooth and nail as should every defendant.

[Ol Dirty B]

49 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Yeah. We're not big on forgiveness as a society. Sad really that people get shunned for one instant of poor judgement, but I digress. Kraft should fight tooth and nail as should every defendant.

 

How'd everyone treat Tiger or Kobe? Society forgives much more than you think. Segments never will because of predisposed individual biases. Half the country looked the other way at the height of me too stuff for Trump. Mike Tyson is almost regarded as a likable character now. The Jenner thing killed someone and got some ESPN life time award within a year.

 

Universal forgiveness is never possible. People may not like JR Smith but it's rarely because he was responsible for a friends death. What I'd say is more unfortunate is that some success or largely inconsequential factors are the reason for forgiveness. 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Ol Dirty B

[LSHMEAB]

3 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

How'd everyone treat Tiger or Kobe? Society forgives much more than you think. Segments never will because of predisposed individual biases. Half the country looked the other way at the height of me too stuff for Trump. Mike Tyson is almost regarded as a likable character now. The Jenner thing killed someone and got some ESPN life time award within a year.

 

Universal forgiveness is never possible. People may not like JR Smith but it's rarely because he was responsible for a friends death. What I'd say is more unfortunate is that some success or largely inconsequential factors are the reason for forgiveness. 

Yeah. People tend to forgive those with means. I was responding to a more personal account from someone I assume is not a celebrity or a multi-millionaire. 

 

Kraft has nothing to worry about, but I still support his right to exhaust every legal recourse(even if it's yet another example of money talking in the judicial system). This is a petty offense as far as I'm concerned.

[SinceThe70s]

19 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

How'd everyone treat Tiger or Kobe? Society forgives much more than you think. Segments never will because of predisposed individual biases. Half the country looked the other way at the height of me too stuff for Trump. Mike Tyson is almost regarded as a likable character now. The Jenner thing killed someone and got some ESPN life time award within a year.

 

Universal forgiveness is never possible. People may not like JR Smith but it's rarely because he was responsible for a friends death. What I'd say is more unfortunate is that some success or largely inconsequential factors are the reason for forgiveness. 

 

I think we live in a very forgiving society. Two things that often factor into forgiveness are a show of contrition and time. Neither one is on Kraft's side right now. 

[HOUSE]

LTS

 

Lingering Thread Syndrome

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by HOUSE

[JohnC]

11 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

You would think.  But he (and others) smell blood in the water and don't want to admit guilt (or that "they would have been found guilty in court") yet...

 

Also, many defense lawyers quoted in the press as far back as a week after the bust were commenting that the video could be challenged.  It's not just "billionaire's lawyers".  It's a lot of legal commenters saying the same thing since this story broke.

This case is going to become a bigger legal entanglement for the government than it is for those who were targeted. The human trafficking justification for the warrant was a pretext to pursue a case against these sex massage establishments. Even if one gives the police the benefit of the doubt it's apparent that it was quickly determined that there was no evidence of sex trafficking. This was an over-reach and abuse of authority. 

 

https://www.boston.com/news/national-news/2019/04/22/customers-videotaped-at-spa-in-robert-kraft-case-sue-authorities

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

LTS

 

Lingering Thread Syndrome

 

It always amused me why someone would complain about a thread that they have little interest in and then post in the thread. There is a simple solution: Find another thread that interests you. 

[Toesy]

12 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

 Half the country looked the other way at the height of me too stuff for Trump. 

We are not supposed to discuss political issues on this forum-that means no discussion of President Trump or the crimes of Hillary and Bill Clinton. Period.

[Gugny]

10 minutes ago, Toesy said:

We are not supposed to discuss political issues on this forum-that means no discussion of President Trump or the crimes of Hillary and Bill Clinton. Period.

 

You see what you just did, there, right?  Yeah ... so does everyone else.

[Mr. WEO]

20 minutes ago, Toesy said:

We are not supposed to discuss political issues on this forum-that means no discussion of President Trump or the crimes of Hillary and Bill Clinton. Period.

 

 

The President just grabbed you by the kitty...

[BUFFALOKIE]

On 5/8/2019 at 9:06 PM, #34fan said:

 

Isn't it?

 

-Up until 2012 it was a Misdemeanor in New York!   In states like Massachussets, Idaho, Oklahoma, and Wisconsin, it was a felony up until very recently...

 

Of course that's some ridiculous legislation, but my point is that morality can be a touchy sort of grey-area... The law is typically not.... -Especially when it comes to things like soliciting prostitution...  Get caught doing it, and you're boned regardless of what you're standing in the community is.... We're all subject to the law, and we're all Human Beings... I hate to admit it, but It could have just as easily been you on tape in that massage parlor. 

 

 

Bull snot. I had zero legal recourse (in oklahoma) when my wife stepped out in 2005. How do you define "until recently". 

[Toesy]

47 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

The President just grabbed you by the kitty... 

You should head over to CNN-Anderson Cooper is hosting a 3 hour special on the Hidden Sex Tapes of Robert Kraft-get your buddies together and make it a party.

[#34fan]

3 hours ago, BUFFALOKIE said:

Bull snot. I had zero legal recourse (in oklahoma) when my wife stepped out in 2005. How do you define "until recently". 

 

Maybe she got off somehow...  -Sorry, poor choice of words..  

 

Here it s directly from the Oklahoma Statutes, Article 21, page 246... (As reported in 2015)

 

§21-871.  Adultery defined - Who may institute prosecution.

Adultery is the unlawful voluntary sexual intercourse of a married person with one of the opposite sex; and when the crime is between persons, only one of whom is married, both are guilty of adultery. Prosecution for adultery can be commenced and carried on against either of the parties to the crime only by his or her own husband or wife as the case may be, or by the husband or wife of the other party to the crime: Provided, that any person may make complaint when persons are living together in open and notorious adultery.

R.L.1910, § 2431.

 

§21-872.  Punishment for adultery.

Any person guilty of the crime of adultery shall be guilty of a felony and punished by imprisonment in the State Penitentiary not exceeding five (5) years or by a fine not exceeding Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), or by both such fine and imprisonment.

R.L. 1910, § 2432.  Amended by Laws 1997, c. 133, § 259, eff. July 1, 1999; Laws 1999, 1st Ex.Sess., c. 5, § 163, eff. July 1, 1999.

NOTE:  Laws 1998, 1st Ex.Sess., c. 2, § 23 amended the effective date of Laws 1997, c. 133, § 259 from July 1, 1998, to July 1, 1999.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...just "sizing up" Bob's predicament....hardly "rising to the level" of prosecution IMO..........

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[PromoTheRobot]

Why is thread been at the top for weeks? No, I'm not going to read it all to find out.

[Rocky Landing]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Why is thread been at the top for weeks? No, I'm not going to read it all to find out.

Mr WEO, and Doc have been beating it into ground horse meat.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Why is thread been at the top for weeks? No, I'm not going to read it all to find out.

...answer is behind door number 3......or perhaps "WTF for $1,000 Alex"........

[Gugny]

11 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Mr WEO, and Doc have been beating it into ground horse meat.

 

Mmmmm ... McDonald's .....

[Doc]

18 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...just "sizing up" Bob's predicament....hardly "rising to the level" of prosecution IMO..........

 

 

So...you've seen the video then?

 

15 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Why is thread been at the top for weeks? No, I'm not going to read it all to find out.

 

It's entertainment!

[ColoradoBills]

15 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Why is thread been at the top for weeks? No, I'm not going to read it all to find out.

 

I can't speak for others but I stop by from time to time.

I admit I slow down to look at the wreck on the Interstate too.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, Doc said:

 

So...you've seen the video then?

 

 

It's entertainment!

.yes...in "short"........Wankergate is here........

[Mr. WEO]

29 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Mr WEO, and Doc have been beating it into ground horse meat.

 

 

A never ending happy ending!!

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

A never ending happy ending!!

 

Ugh.  You just had to make it weird...er.

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...what if the Asian skank files suit for "breach of fulfillment"?......

 

I have a buddy who gets a LOT of massages. He just moved to an area with a large Asian population, and almost all the massage places are Asian. Multiple times he’s had to decline the happy ending (or so he tells me). The last time the girl said as he left “next time, for $60 more, YOU rub ME!” (Funnier if you read that with the accent.) 

 

He hasn’t been back there. (As far as he’s told me, but his wife has been in another state for several months, so....) 

[Chandler#81]

5 hours ago, Toesy said:

You should head over to CNN-Anderson Cooper is hosting a 3 hour special on the Hidden Sex Tapes of Robert Kraft-get your buddies together and make it a party.

‘Toesy, Party of one, your dumpster is ready’

 

and with this, this now ridiculous thread dies a quiet death.