Robert Kraft charged in prostitution ring bust ( Update: Kraft legal team accused of lying in court)

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

 

Are you trying to argue that because the surveillance was being used to investigate one crime, it shouldn’t be used as evidence against someone who is caught committing another crime?

 

 

Sounds like they still busted an illegal operation, just not the one they were out to get.

 

It's not what I'm trying to argue...it's what many lawyers commenting on the weaknesses of the DAs case have been saying for 4 weeks since this story broke. 

 

The argument stated is that video warrants should only be sought/granted when the evidence of the particular crime can only be obtained through the inherently invasive method of video taping both the guilty and the innocent patrons of this establishment.

 

Clearly, the entire of history of vice investigations/crackdowns/busts/sting of prostitution rings have been made with methods other than video taping.  Hence the challenge of the camera evidence.  

 

Just google it.  Make things easier for yourself.  It should be intuitively obvious that the DA has serious problems with these cases given the crazy plea deal they have been reduced to offering Kraft.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Kind of like...stopping someone for smoking pot and finding a gun in the trunk of his car.  Ah but that's totally different!

 

Huh?

[Marv's Neighbor]

He has a plea deal.  Plead guilty, pay a fine, and it's over as far as the law is concerned BUT if he pleads guilty, what would the League have to say about it?  Would he still be a "fit" owner, or would they force him out?

 

Florida has "sunshine laws" so whatever video evidence that exists will be released, sooner or later.  Parkland school shootings, Pulse nightclub etc., all got released.and they were much higher profile than this.

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

He has a plea deal.  Plead guilty, pay a fine, and it's over as far as the law is concerned BUT if he pleads guilty, what would the League have to say about it?  Would he still be a "fit" owner, or would they force him out?

 

Florida has "sunshine laws" so whatever video evidence that exists will be released, sooner or later.  Parkland school shootings, Pulse nightclub etc., all got released.and they were much higher profile than this.

 

 

That's not the plea deal he was offered.  They offered to drop all charges and have him do some classes, service, pay a small fine....and admit that "he would have been found guilty" if he was tried, which is obviously silly.  Who would agree to a deal that does not have him not be charged with any crime at all.....but one in which he would have to admit guilt to a crime which he is not charged with??  Who would take that plea? Why would they?

 

That's an admission by the DA that their case is non-existent.

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

He has a plea deal.  Plead guilty, pay a fine, and it's over as far as the law is concerned BUT if he pleads guilty, what would the League have to say about it?  Would he still be a "fit" owner, or would they force him out?

 

Florida has "sunshine laws" so whatever video evidence that exists will be released, sooner or later.  Parkland school shootings, Pulse nightclub etc., all got released.and they were much higher profile than this.

 

He doesn't have to be found guilty for Rog to punish him as it's plainly obvious he was soliciting a prostitute and got his high-priced lawyers to get him off.  Not unlike how players do it.  But as an owner he is and should be held to a higher standard.

[RoyBatty is alive]

4 hours ago, daz28 said:

Prostitution is sex trafficking.  Grabbing the Johns(no pun intended) is part of enforcing the sex trafficking laws.  You're making it sound like just getting the pimp is the sole objective.  You're trying to say the net we toss out to catch criminals has to be small(narrow), and only allowed to keep the targeted species.  Actually, the smarter enforcement throws out a large net, and doesn't throw back the bycatch.  No DA or judge is gonna throw out the case, because they happened to catch more crimes.  If you're caught on video committing a crime, during an investigation, they don't shut down the other investigation to make that arrest right away.  Lastly, if they suspected 'human' trafficking, it doesn't mean they felt all those girls in there were being sex slaves, so they better raid the whole place right now.  It could just mean there was a suspicion of it.  Stop listening to Wuuudy Juuuwiani.  

 

...and furthermore, the NFL should come down VERY hard for the face of the league to exhibit this type of "behavior".  

2

 

100% wrong, so incredibly naive.

Define sex trafficking.  These ladies, are yes breaking the law but to infer they are all sex slave s or "trafficked" is laughable.

 

If in fact these ladies were sex trafficked and de-facto enslaved it would have been unconscionable for the DA and police to let this sting operation go on for months.   

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Poor woman...for having to endure that. ?

 

Honestly pretty damn judgemental on your part. Maybe she doesn't mind, maybe she enjoys it. 

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Bobby's trying to get the video blocked so that Rog doesn't see the assault he committed on that poor woman.  Despite the fact that it was instant love and he paid her.  Hmmmm....

1

 The assault?  So that bloated 77 yr old forced her into that situation?   Laughable.

 

She was forced into was she?.

[iinii]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No one is giving "a freebie".  Even if the DA/cops had not F'ed up their search issues, the best they could have gotten out of Kraft and the other 100 johns is pretrial diversion, community service and fines.  Yet now they may not even get that. The proof of the sorry state of their case is that they offered to not charge him at all---if he agreed to say he was guilty.  WTF is that?! LOL.

 

SO, to recap.  A many months long investigation to bust a "tip of the iceberg" human trafficking ring stretching from Florida to NYC to China has resulted in the zero arrests so far for trafficking , the arrest of the owner for running an obvious whorehouse, and the arrests of 100 guys who, at least one, is being offered a deal where there is no charge against them at all.  

 

That's how this "has worked" so far for the sex slave saviors in Martin County.

 

 

Pretty much

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Kind of like...stopping someone for smoking pot and finding a gun in the trunk of his car.  Ah but that's totally different!

No....it’s more like kidnapping someone and taking them across state lines on an expired license.....

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

 

He doesn't have to be found guilty for Rog to punish him as it's plainly obvious he was soliciting a prostitute and got his high-priced lawyers to get him off.  Not unlike how players do it.  But as an owner he is and should be held to a higher standard.

 

 

It didn't take a "high priced lawyer" to laugh at the DA's plea offer and see it for what it is...

[Doc]

9 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Honestly pretty damn judgemental on your part. Maybe she doesn't mind, maybe she enjoys it. 

 The assault?  So that bloated 77 yr old forced her into that situation?   Laughable.

 

She was forced into was she?.

 

Well, she got money for it.  So I guess it's paid-for assault.  At the very least it's cruel and unusual punishment.

 

But I don't cry for either of them.  It would be like...tears in the rain.

 

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

It didn't take a "high priced lawyer" to laugh at the DA's plea offer and see it for what it is...

 

Well then, Bobby wasted his money.  He should have gone to an Orchids of Asia-type law firm...

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Well, she got money for it.  So I guess it's paid-for assault.  At the very least it's cruel and unusual punishment.

 

But I don't cry for either of them.  It would be like...tears in the rain.

 

 

Well then, Bobby wasted his money.  He should have gone to an Orchids of Asia-type law firm...

 

 

She ran the place.

 

Billionaires have been known to waste money.

[Doc]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

She ran the place.

 

Billionaires have been known to waste money.

 

He's wasting even more money trying to get the videos blocked.  Not gonna happen.  They'll provide endless entertainment...for those with the stomach to watch them.

[Gugny]

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

He's wasting even more money trying to get the videos blocked.  Not gonna happen.  They'll provide endless entertainment...for those with the stomach to watch them.

 

I think it'll happen.  I also think a lot of people will be getting paid.

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I think it'll happen.  I also think a lot of people will be getting paid.

 

You think what will happen?  That he'll get them blocked?  Doubtful at best.

 

And these things have a way of getting out anyway.

[Gugny]

19 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You think what will happen?  That he'll get them blocked?  Doubtful at best.

 

And these things have a way of getting out anyway.

 

I honestly think that if there was anything worth seeing, he wouldn't have been offered the ridiculous deal.  And I do think he's rich enough to make that video go away forever.

[ndirish1978]

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Lost in all of this 

 

i hope she was wearing rubber floves

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I've been fairly nonplussed by this whole thing for the most part. But now, I'm ashamed to say, I can't wait for the memes that will inevitably ensue featuring this footage. I almost feel sorry for Kraft. Almost.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...DA must be up for re-election...STILL chasin' a 77 year old guy.....must mean Miami is down to 0% in all other crimes....

Edited March 22, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I've been fairly nonplussed by this whole thing for the most part. But now, I'm ashamed to say, I can't wait for the memes that will inevitably ensue featuring this footage. I almost feel sorry for Kraft. Almost.

 

The signs at Cheaters away games will be hilarious!

[GreggTX]

So what? Why is this such a big issue? Let's move on.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

12 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

So what? Why is this such a big issue? Let's move on.

 

 

...agree...if it doesn't fit, you must acquit.................

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

22 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

So what? Why is this such a big issue? Let's move on.

A billionaire goes to a seedy joint instead of paying for a high class escort 

That’s why

[Doc]

1 hour ago, GreggTX said:

So what? Why is this such a big issue? Let's move on.

 

It's entertainment! 

 

[Rocky Landing]

3 hours ago, GreggTX said:

So what? Why is this such a big issue? Let's move on.

Because Tom Brady* is the Darth Maul of quarterbacks, Bill Bellichick* is the Darth Vader of head coaches, and Robert Kraft* is the Emperor Palpatine of NFL owners. So, naked Palpatine in an utterly humiliating video which will be edited into ruthlessly hilarious memes right at the very end of the Evil Emperor's dominance in the AFCE.

Word.

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, Doc said:

 

He's wasting even more money trying to get the videos blocked.  Not gonna happen.  They'll provide endless entertainment...for those with the stomach to watch them.

 

 

No doubt there's a "4merper4mer"  who's cleaning out the kleenex stock at his local Walmart in anticipation of those videos being released....

 

But my guess is that, if he isn't convicted, the tapes essentially are not evidence of a crime.  Instead, they would be an invasion of privacy.  Two consenting adults engaged in a private act  with a reasonable expectation of privacy.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[Bockeye]

4 hours ago, GreggTX said:

So what? Why is this such a big issue? Let's move on.

Ummm......No.

52 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

No doubt there's a "4merper4mer"  who's cleaning out the kleenex stock at his local Walmart in anticipation of those videos being released....

 

But my guess is that, if he isn't convicted, the tapes essentially are not evidence of a crime.  Instead, they would be an invasion of privacy.  Two consenting adults engaged in a private act  with a reasonable expectation of privacy.

I like the take.  We need Judge Judy. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

But my guess is that, if he isn't convicted, the tapes essentially are not evidence of a crime.  Instead, they would be an invasion of privacy.  Two consenting adults engaged in a private act  with a reasonable expectation of privacy.

 

Legally, maybe.  But they'll make their way into public view.  They always do.

 

And he was engaged in illegal activity.  Why not release it?  I'll bet if this were Shady...

Edited March 23, 2019 by Doc

[Ol Dirty B]

56 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

No doubt there's a "4merper4mer"  who's cleaning out the kleenex stock at his local Walmart in anticipation of those videos being released....

 

But my guess is that, if he isn't convicted, the tapes essentially are not evidence of a crime.  Instead, they would be an invasion of privacy.  Two consenting adults engaged in a private act  with a reasonable expectation of privacy.

 

But if their are other convictions at the same spa, and they had a warrant for the filming. I'm not sure how he could argue an invasion of privacy. He'd be an unfortunate victim of circumstance at the center of a international human trafficking ring. I'm not saying the tapes will get released, but their won't be any blowback on the agencies involved because of the magnitude of the other convictions I'm assuming will come. Not necessarily in regards to the other John's, but to those who got them in the country and moved them around across state lines.

[Mr. WEO]

57 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Legally, maybe.  But they'll make their way into public view.  They always do.

 

And he was engaged in illegal activity.  Why not release it?  I'll bet if this were Shady...

 

So, "legally" the tapes could not be released by the cops (the Sherriff is the one who is talking about their release, so if they "make their way into public view, he's probably the number 1 suspect....) if Kraft is not convicted of a crime,  but you have concluded that he was engaged in illegal activity anyway?

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

So, "legally" the tapes could not be released by the cops (the Sherriff is the one who is talking about their release, so if they "make their way into public view, he's probably the number 1 suspect....) if Kraft is not convicted of a crime,  but you have concluded that he was engaged in illegal activity anyway?

 

Not just me.  Most people.  To deny this is hilarious.

[Mr. WEO]

53 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

But if their are other convictions at the same spa, and they had a warrant for the filming. I'm not sure how he could argue an invasion of privacy. He'd be an unfortunate victim of circumstance at the center of a international human trafficking ring. I'm not saying the tapes will get released, but their won't be any blowback on the agencies involved because of the magnitude of the other convictions I'm assuming will come. Not necessarily in regards to the other John's, but to those who got them in the country and moved them around across state lines.

 

 

No one has been charged with human trafficking.  If anyone ever is charged, the videotapes of guys getting tug jobs will be the evidence used to charge the traffickers.  It will be the testimony of those in servitude.  And the money and passports seized and any info the cooperating witnesses give.  The tapes are useless for all of that.

 

The two woman who serviced him were licensed massage worker.  One was the manager.

 

if the police taped him in a private legal act involving another consenting adult,  that is an invasion of privacy.  Legal opinion is that the taping warrant was faultily obtained since the police could have obtained evidence of the massage parlor was being run as a whorehouse with tried and true undercover methods other than taping hundreds of patrons not involved in crimes.  

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Not just me.  Most people.  To deny this is hilarious.

 

Well, we all read the charges, doc.  That is true.

 

It's not about what one does, but what one can be proven to have done.  Right now, he has turned down a no-plea deal.  He must be convinced the evidence will not lead to his conviction---for the reasons that have been very well discussed widely.

 

That's actually what most people are saying.  It's been in all the papers and everything....

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Well, we all read the charges, doc.  That is true.

 

It's not about what one does, but what one can be proven to have done.  Right now, he has turned down a no-plea deal.  He must be convinced the evidence will not lead to his conviction---for the reasons that have been very well discussed widely.

 

That's actually what most people are saying.  It's been in all the papers and everything....

 

Interesting.  Look, I don't care if he gets charged as long as he wasn't involved in human trafficking because I believe that prostitution should be legal and that the videos will be infinitely more embarrassing than any punishment he might get.  I'm just point-out your hypocrisy in defending people you like versus convicting those you don't (usually with with no evidence, unlike in this case).

[Mr. WEO]

I’m not defending anyone.  Just pointing out the legal arguments.  I told you he wouldn’t take that plea deal....because it made no sense and no one would.   See the difference?

 

And no one has been charge with human trafficking,  least of all any Johns....mainly because they at least  weren’t involved in human trafficking.  They were just getting tug jobs

[major]

8 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

So the dude who most benefited from using an illegal taping system will be brought down by a legal taping system #justice

[4merper4mer]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

No doubt there's a "4merper4mer"  who's cleaning out the kleenex stock at his local Walmart in anticipation of those videos being released....

 

But my guess is that, if he isn't convicted, the tapes essentially are not evidence of a crime.  Instead, they would be an invasion of privacy.  Two consenting adults engaged in a private act  with a reasonable expectation of privacy.

Thanks for the shout out.  With all the digital technology in theaters these days, it is nice to be reminded of the good old days of projection.

 

I have no desire to see videos of your team's owner using a slave to get off ever; under any circumstance.  I'm also not all that concerned about an invasion of this fat drunk reprobate's privacy.  Granted, it isn't exactly what should happen in the ideal world if he is acquitted.  It would also be the trillionth time something is made public that should have remained private.  Your hero and soon to be martyred innocent victim's fate would be a mere pebble in the ocean.

 

I'm sure there is some game playing going on by law enforcement wrt the video.  The billionaire owner has 3,217 lawyers crawling up their butt every day to protect him.  Who cares if the human slave traders benefit as a side effect?  Just a guess but that might tick off hard working, if imperfect police officers and DA's that watched women be enslaved with no way out while a billionaire rolls up in a limo and takes advantage.  Maybe they're just playing the one card they have in the stacked deck.  But by all means mock them for picking on poor poor Bob.

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by 4merper4mer

[Buffalo_Stampede]

14 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Damn, I was sure i'de win. I had Gronk in the "1st Patriot to show his weiner on camera" pool. 

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

12 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

A billionaire goes to a seedy joint instead of paying for a high class escort 

That’s why

 

 

....BUT.........he had a BOGO coopin'...............

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

Thanks for the shout out.  With all the digital technology in theaters these days, it is nice to be reminded of the good old days of projection.

 

I have no desire to see videos of your team's owner using a slave to get off ever; under any circumstance.  I'm also not all that concerned about an invasion of this fat drunk reprobate's privacy.  Granted, it isn't exactly what should happen in the ideal world if he is acquitted.  It would also be the trillionth time something is made public that should have remained private.  Your hero and soon to be martyred innocent victim's fate would be a mere pebble in the ocean.

 

I'm sure there is some game playing going on by law enforcement wrt the video.  The billionaire owner has 3,217 lawyers crawling up their butt every day to protect him.  Who cares if the human slave traders benefit as a side effect?  Just a guess but that might tick off hard working, if imperfect police officers and DA's that watched women be enslaved with no way out while a billionaire rolls up in a limo and takes advantage.  Maybe they're just playing the one card they have in the stacked deck.  But by all means mock them for picking on poor poor Bob.

 

 

 

Kraft (and, bizarrely, Andrew Luck) is your overwhelmingly well documented obsession, not mine.   You're as easy to draw out of the dark as a MAGA hat wearer when he hears the word "caravan".

 

No one has charged that "slaves" were getting Kraft off on a video.

 

If the hard working, imperfect police were most concerned with the "women enslaved", they would not have waited months until they had chased down 100 johns in goofy tug job traffic stops before they closed this place down.  They let these women languish in that place for months----videotaping them---before they made landed Krafty the White Whale and decided now was the time to shut it down and make the big announcement that they had not arrested anyone for human tracking in this shocking case of human trafficking.

 

If the DA had a stacked deck, they wouldn't have offered Kraft a deal where he isn't even charged with a crime:  "OK how about this...we won't even charge you with anything, but you will pay the same non jail penalties as the charge normally brings....AND you will tell the public that our case against you was so solid and overwhelming that you would certainly have been proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubt in court!".

 

Would you take that deal?  I mean, drop the Kraft fetish just for a single second and answer that question honestly.

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Kraft (and, bizarrely, Andrew Luck) is your overwhelmingly well documented obsession, not mine.   You're as easy to draw out of the dark as a MAGA hat wearer when he hears the word "caravan".

 

No one has charged that "slaves" were getting Kraft off on a video.

 

If the hard working, imperfect police were most concerned with the "women enslaved", they would not have waited months until they had chased down 100 johns in goofy tug job traffic stops before they closed this place down.  They let these women languish in that place for months----videotaping them---before they made landed Krafty the White Whale and decided now was the time to shut it down and make the big announcement that they had not arrested anyone for human tracking in this shocking case of human trafficking.

 

If the DA had a stacked deck, they wouldn't have offered Kraft a deal where he isn't even charged with a crime:  "OK how about this...we won't even charge you with anything, but you will pay the same non jail penalties as the charge normally brings....AND you will tell the public that our case against you was so solid and overwhelming that you would certainly have been proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubt in court!".

 

Would you take that deal?  I mean, drop the Kraft fetish just for a single second and answer that question honestly.

I'm the one obsessed with Kraft huh?   From deflate gate to inflategate or whatever this is called you've written quite a number of posts defending him using half truths and innuendo. I can't recall spy gate stuff you may or may not have written because it was a long time ago, but I can easily imagine where you stand.

 

 I sort of get it.  You're a fan.  But dude the world does not revolve around your Pats or even the NFL.  These women have clearly been severely abused and have had their lives stolen from them.  They also don't speak English and fear for their families back home.  Law enforcement's job is not easy here.  But by all means please paint them as simply out to get Kraft.  They hate us because they ain't us!  Amirite?