McBeane will build a Wr Core of 2s & 3s.

[without a drought]

6 minutes ago, BmarvB said:

Teams like the Pats, Rams, Seahawks, and others just have a group of receivers as opposed to a true #1. We don't really need that one superstar WR as long as the group can be productive by getting open and catching the dayum ball

Cooks is on a contract that averages over $16mil for at least the next 2 years, longer if they don't use their out after 2020. Cooks and Woods take up over 11% over their cap space next season. I don't see this as the same plan as the Pats.

[JoPar_v2]

Just now, BobChalmers said:

 

"sure" is a strong word, but ALL the draft reports show a pretty weak top end for WRs.

 

Thanks. I haven’t really looked at the prospects yet for this upcoming draft. Didn’t know the class was looking so weak. 

[BobChalmers]

40 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

To me a #1 demands double teams and still makes plays.  Those are rare and cost tons.  I can see the value of having several guys perhaps not at that level but capable of running good routes, getting separation, and above all having reliable hands.

 

I'm not sure we have even #2's right now on the roster.  I thought Zay would be good when we drafted him, but he has not shown good separation ability and worst his hands are iffy - who would have predicted that from the guy who set an NCAA record?  foster is unreliable catching the ball, although he can get separation.  McKenzie is unreliable catching the ball.  So is Croom at TE.

 

Could some of these guys still contribute?  Maybe, if they had more solid guys above them that take some pressure off of them.  I just think we need two more solid WRs, and solid TE, and then we also have to figure out how to add at least three new O linemen plus replace Shady.  Should be a very interesting offseason - you can't fix all of this but you have to make a sizable dent in it if you're Beane.

 

 

 

In fairness to Foster, he was an UDFA with very limited targets at Alabama - he could get a lot better now that he'll be a full-time pro.  His problems are mostly fixable with work.  Look how much better he got just taking a few weeks to improve between his two stints on the Bills roster.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by BobChalmers

[FeelingOnYouboty]

53 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I disagree.  I'd be willing to give up a washing machine, maybe a washer-dryer set, but nothing more. 

 

He's been injured. Big cap hit. They can get out of his contract this year. New regime probably coming in. It's not out of the question.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

He's been injured. Big cap hit. They can get out of his contract this year. New regime probably coming in. It's not out of the question.

 

Didn't the owner just come out and say that Marvin Lewis would literally be the coach for as long as he wanted to stay? 

 

AJ Green is a premier player.  There would be a market for him.  Accepting a fourth would be the equivalent of giving up on the entire team.  Maybe a second and a fourth, but a fourth alone would be insultingly low. 

[Prickly Pete]

I want 5 new starters on the Offense. Upgrades at 5 different positions would be transformational. 

Say, a couple O-linemen, another RB, and 2 new Receivers (maybe a WR and a TE). They don't have to all be stars (one would be nice), just the best players on the team at their position, top of the depth chart. Honestly, it isn't that tall of an order, considering the talent level of the current offense. There is no one special, except McCoy, who is now on the downside. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by OJ Tom

[oldmanfan]

28 minutes ago, BobChalmers said:

 

In fairness to Foster, he was an UDFA with very limited targets at Alabama - he could get a lot better now that he'll be a full-time pro.  His problems are mostly fixable with work.  Look how much better he got just taking a few weeks to improve between his two stints on the Bills roster.

 

 

Hope you're right.  Maybe he'll be like Moulds - took him a while to catch on.

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Seems to be working well for the Rams.  I also think this is the approach we take.

 

we just need a monster OL and a fantastic RB.  Only way this works is to have a real game changing back.  We won't be getting Bell (and he needs a great line w/ his hesitation move); but Coleman in FA would be nice. 

 

I also think Golden Tate or D. Jax would be great fits here. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by RyanC883

[Perry Turtle]

Josh Allen isn't a rhythm passer or a West Coast QB.  His strength is throwing downfield.  The Bills should be building a power run/vertical shot offense.  They shouldn't be trying to build a NE type offense.

 

To do that, they need talented WRs who have speed and size.  Those types of players are usually classified as #1 WRs.

[Nextmanup]

I think folks are overly focused on WRs on this team right now, mostly because we don't have any good ones!

 

But it's the QB that makes the receivers and not vice versa.  

 

Allen is much more important--for now--to the equation than who our WRs are.

 

We do need to improve the WRs we have though.

 

 

[BillsFan1988]

1 hour ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Not saying you need true #1s but this argument is silly. Barring Seahawks and Patriots SBs, plenty of star WRs won or were a big contribution to at least getting there. You can point to any position group and name the best players that haven't won.

 

Julio Jones, Demarious Thomas, Anquan Boldin, Fitzgerald, Plaxico Burress, Alshon Jeffrey etc all had a huge impact. Arguably none of those teams would have won without those guys (Plax v Packers carried the Giants to the SB, Fitz like broke the record for WR yards in a playoff run.. he was Warner's sole offense, Bolding bailed out Flacco on many close games, Jeffrey is the king of catching Nick Foles bombs.. without him Foles doesn't have the games he had)

 

Brown has won a title btw but I get your point he wasn't a #1. Those Steelers just had 4 #1s on the roster.

 

I don't care how we assemble the corps I just want to get great WRs. If it's more a committee type like we see in Philly with Jeffrey and Agholor then sure.. call them #2s or 1a and 1b. you still need them to be GOOD. I'm fine with getting Foster legit competition and seeing how he stacks up. He's like a young Agholor right now and we can get a Jeffrey type to compliment him and challenge him. 

 

So I agree to your point we don't need a do-it-all high priced #1. But it's not bad thing to go after that whatsoever. Maybe we don't need to go for an incumbent vet, but grab a lot of youth and see what sticks. We need someone opposite of Foster that's just as good if not better, and I'll be happy. That's 2 #2s if that's what you're vouching for, but I don't see the point other than we need more talent and more depth simultaneously. Talented WRs are not a bad thing whatsoever.

Some of these guys u meantioned are not what i will call elite #1 Wrs, DT yea he won a Superbowl and yes he was elite at that time. But Julio, Fitz, Bolden they never won as defacto #1s. Bolden was at the end of his career in Baltimore. Plax wasn't an elite guy he had good seasons but never put up 1600 yds on consistent basis. All teams have a #1 Wr but only a few are truly gm breaker elite status and most of them never won anything. The Steelers had a great Corps with Plax, Hines Ward and Sanders & Brown were young raw prospects at the time not #1 guys but great role players. Even when Rodgers won it with the Pack he did it with a good corps. We can find a Jennings type #1 . Im just basically saying i dont see McBeane going after a diva type guy that wants 10-12 targets again.

[TPS]

9 minutes ago, Perry Turtle said:

Josh Allen isn't a rhythm passer or a West Coast QB.  His strength is throwing downfield.  The Bills should be building a power run/vertical shot offense.  They shouldn't be trying to build a NE type offense.

 

To do that, they need talented WRs who have speed and size.  Those types of players are usually classified as #1 WRs.

As Daboll has stated, they game plan each week based on the weaknesses of the opponent they face. The offense has to be multi-dimensional to stretch the field both vertically and horizontally, which requires all "types" of WRs, TEs, and RBs.  Between Foster's deep threat and Allen's legs, I think the 15-20 yard midfield throws will be their bread and butter, and what matters there are guys who know how to find the soft spots in the zone.  McKenzie and Zay should both work good there.  They will definitely need another deep threat in addition to Foster, and it would certainly be great to have a young stud who is a multi-dimensional threat for Allen as well. I don't think they need to spend their R1 pick on finding him though...

[Thurman#1]

I think you're right about this in terms of free agency.

 

I wouldn't be shocked, though, if they draft a WR very high in hopes he could become a #1.

1 hour ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Not saying you need true #1s but this argument is silly. Barring Seahawks and Patriots SBs, plenty of star WRs won or were a big contribution to at least getting there. You can point to any position group and name the best players that haven't won.

 

Julio Jones, Demarious Thomas, Anquan Boldin, Fitzgerald, Plaxico Burress, Alshon Jeffrey etc all had a huge impact. Arguably none of those teams would have won without those guys (Plax v Packers carried the Giants to the SB, Fitz like broke the record for WR yards in a playoff run.. he was Warner's sole offense, Bolding bailed out Flacco on many close games, Jeffrey is the king of catching Nick Foles bombs.. without him Foles doesn't have the games he had)

 

Brown has won a title btw but I get your point he wasn't a #1. Those Steelers just had 4 #1s on the roster.

 

I don't care how we assemble the corps I just want to get great WRs. If it's more a committee type like we see in Philly with Jeffrey and Agholor then sure.. call them #2s or 1a and 1b. you still need them to be GOOD. I'm fine with getting Foster legit competition and seeing how he stacks up. He's like a young Agholor right now and we can get a Jeffrey type to compliment him and challenge him. 

 

So I agree to your point we don't need a do-it-all high priced #1. But it's not bad thing to go after that whatsoever. Maybe we don't need to go for an incumbent vet, but grab a lot of youth and see what sticks. We need someone opposite of Foster that's just as good if not better, and I'll be happy. That's 2 #2s if that's what you're vouching for, but I don't see the point other than we need more talent and more depth simultaneously. Talented WRs are not a bad thing whatsoever.

 

 

He's pointing specifically at teams that won Super Bowls, not teams that came close, and I think that's something worth looking at.

 

The 2015 Broncos had Demaryius Thomas. I'd argue he was a #1 that year and for several years.

 

The 2011 Giants had Victor Cruz putting up 1536 yards, 2nd in the league after Megatron, and averaging a monster 18.7 YPR. he didn't last, but at that point he was a #1. And the same year, Nicks was not that far away, though not a #1 I think.

 

The 2010 Pack had Jennings putting up the 4th best yardage and tying for 2nd in TDs.

 

The 2008 Steelers. Hines Ward? Mmmmm. Not sure, really. On the bubble, probably.

 

The 2007 Giants. Plaxico Burress? Tied for 4th in TDs that year but nah.

 

The 2006 Colts. Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne may both have been #1s at that point, both going over 1300 yards but Harrison was 2nd in yardage, 2nd in TDs. He was absolutely a #1.

 

Can't be bothered going further back but there are some #1s on Super Bowl winning teams, though there are also plenty of teams that won without them. Demaryius, Cruz, Jennings and Harrison, at least, qualify.

[Perry Turtle]

6 minutes ago, TPS said:

As Daboll has stated, they game plan each week based on the weaknesses of the opponent they face. The offense has to be multi-dimensional to stretch the field both vertically and horizontally, which requires all "types" of WRs, TEs, and RBs.  Between Foster's deep threat and Allen's legs, I think the 15-20 yard midfield throws will be their bread and butter, and what matters there are guys who know how to find the soft spots in the zone.  McKenzie and Zay should both work good there.  They will definitely need another deep threat in addition to Foster, and it would certainly be great to have a young stud who is a multi-dimensional threat for Allen as well. I don't think they need to spend their R1 pick on finding him though...

Yeah, and Rex had the same type of strategy on defense and it was a freakin disaster.

 

They can either waste time trying to force their franchise QB to be something he's not, or they can build an offense around his strengths.

 

Who would rather pair Allen with, OBJ or Julian Edelman? OBJ is a much better fit than Edelman for Allen's strengths.

 

If Beane wanted a WR corps of #2s and #3s, he should have drafted Josh Rosen.

 

I'm glad they drafted Allen.  I like him much better than Rosen, but he's not a 3 step drop QB.  He's more like Ben Roethlisberger than Tom Brady, and the Steelers are always looking for high-end WRs. 

[Bing Bong]

2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

The 2007 Giants. Plaxico Burress? Tied for 4th in TDs that year but nah.

He was a #1 in the playoffs. Just look at the 2007 Packers game where he ate Charles Woodsons' lunch. My point being without him, the Giants wouldn't have advanced. They needed a great talent (who was very inconsistent and will probably not go down as a #1 teams coveted.. for sure). 

 

And all the others you mentioned. Regardless, I don't want to hear "look at OBJ, Green, Jones, Calvin Johnson, Brown, etc etc they haven't won a title!"  My whole point being you can say that about any position.

 

"look at Marino, Kelly, Fouts, and McNair.. no titles, don't need good quarterbacks"

"look at JJ Watt, Khalil Mack, Aaron Donald, and Mario Williams.. no titles, don't need great DL"

 

doesn't make sense. We just need great talent in many places and our elite guys somewhere. For every great WR that didn't win the big one, there are tons that were a big reason a team did. I'm fine with 2 1a and 1b WR depth chart types. I think this way to build a roster is fine.. I think getting an elite WR would be gravy too. Regardless they need to be good. I don't care how many superbowls AJ Green hasn't won. That has literally no point to this.

[formerlyofCtown]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I think you are correct about this. McBean do not seem to want to run a star system here. They want to have a lot of interchangeable players who are good at their jobs. I think that a receiving corps like you described is likely, with the expectation that someplace along the way they may draft or acquire a true number one. However, I doubt they would they will burn a high draft pick for one in 2019.

They already got a Star player he is on the Dline.

 

I think they want a star at QB and at the LB positions.

[Thurman#1]

42 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Some of these guys u meantioned are not what i will call elite #1 Wrs, DT yea he won a Superbowl and yes he was elite at that time. But Julio, Fitz, Bolden they never won as defacto #1s. Bolden was at the end of his career in Baltimore. Plax wasn't an elite guy he had good seasons but never put up 1600 yds on consistent basis. All teams have a #1 Wr but only a few are truly gm breaker elite status and most of them never won anything. The Steelers had a great Corps with Plax, Hines Ward and Sanders & Brown were young raw prospects at the time not #1 guys but great role players. Even when Rodgers won it with the Pack he did it with a good corps. We can find a Jennings type #1 . Im just basically saying i dont see McBeane going after a diva type guy that wants 10-12 targets again.

 

 

"... put up 1600 on consistent basis," that's your qualification? Come on, man, there have only been 20 1600 yard seasons in the history of the NFL.

 

Megatron had two. Antonio Brown had two. Marvin Harrison and Torry Holt also. Those four are the only players to ever have more than one 1600 yard season, and nobody has had more than two.

 

And you want it done on a consistent basis? Jeez, dude, nobody has ever done it consistently.

 

Oh, and no, Hines Ward was absolutely not a raw young prospect when the Steelers won their most recent title. They won it in 2005, which was Ward's eighth season, when he was in his prime.

 

And while I hope you're right that we can find a Jennings, he had 1265 yards (4th in the league) and 12 TDs (T-2nd) and tallied 16.6 YPC (4th among guys with 50 or more catches) that year. It will not be easy. He was terrific and absolutely a #1.

 

 

[Virgil]

#2 guys are getting paid like starters. It’s not like a few years back with guys playing for $5 mil. It’s a premium position with limited depth 

[Thurman#1]

6 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

He was a #1 in the playoffs. Just look at the 2007 Packers game where he ate Charles Woodsons' lunch. My point being without him, the Giants wouldn't have advanced. They needed a great talent (who was very inconsistent and will probably not go down as a #1 teams coveted.. for sure). 

 

And all the others you mentioned. Regardless, I don't want to hear "look at OBJ, Green, Jones, Calvin Johnson, Brown, etc etc they haven't won a title!"  My whole point being you can say that about any position.

 

"look at Marino, Kelly, Fouts, and McNair.. no titles, don't need good quarterbacks"

"look at JJ Watt, Khalil Mack, Aaron Donald, and Mario Williams.. no titles, don't need great DL"

 

doesn't make sense. We just need great talent in many places and our elite guys somewhere. For every great WR that didn't win the big one, there are tons that were a big reason a team did. I'm fine with 2 1a and 1b WR depth chart types. I think this way to build a roster is fine.. I think getting an elite WR would be gravy too. Regardless they need to be good. I don't care how many superbowls AJ Green hasn't won. That has literally no point to this.

 

 

Fine, Burress was a #1 in the playoffs, but not a #1.

 

Agreed that pointing to Megatron and a few of the others and saying that they didn't win titles and therefore you don't need one isn't good logic. Very much agreed.

 

But you can win without an elite WR. Having one sure doesn't hurt, though, except in the salary cap if he's not on his first contract.

[njbuff]

AJ Green will be 31 next year and is injury prone.

 

No way in heck is Beane going to give up anything of significance for that. Nor should he.