Start Josh Allen (healthy) or Matt Barkley?

[sullim4]

I wouldn't be upset either way.  I think starting Allen represents the highest risk/highest reward of the bunch:

 

If you start Allen, and he sucks, then you run the risk of having the fanbase turn against him and calling for his head, after less than a season at quarterback.

 

If you start Allen, and he's good, then that's great.

 

If you start Barkley, and he sucks, then Allen just goes in for the final few games, and even if he sucks too, the fanbase won't turn on him.

 

If you start Barkley, and he's good... then what's the problem?  Let Allen develop on the bench and see if Barkley just needed the right set of coaches to click with.

[KDIGGZ]

1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

Dear Diary, even though Josh Rosen completed only 56% of his passes today, threw two more interceptions, struggled again, and was generally ineffective, he still looked perfect to me ❤️❤️

Who said that? He's not playing well and yet he's still better than Allen in all categories. Not sure what that has to do with this topic anyhow

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, WRONG JOSH said:

Who said that? He's not playing well and yet he's still better than Allen in all categories. Not sure what that has to do with this topic anyhow

Allen hasn't played in a month, so, we have no idea how he would be playing now. My point is your love for Rosen clearly clouds your judgement and prevents you from objectively evaluating Allen or Rosen. Carry on....

[Stank_Nasty]

32 minutes ago, teef said:

but what does this get you moving forward?.  barkley isn't the future.

It really is this simple isn’t it? 

 

Thats where i’m at. 

[jrober38]

Barkley has to start. 

 

The offense looked better yesterday than it has in 2 years. Daboll called a great game, and the receivers made plays. 

 

For the sake of trying to build an offense, he should be the one playing so we can evaluate the other 10 guys on offense. 

 

If he becomes less effective, you can make a change, but I think it sends the wrong message to bench the QB who gave us the best performance of the year on offense. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by jrober38

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

Allen hasn't played in a month, so, we have no idea how he would be playing now. My point is your love for Rosen clearly clouds your judgement and prevents you from objectively evaluating Allen or Rosen. Carry on....

Rosen's better. Not sure what that has to do with Barkley starting over Allen for the time being so he can try and improve. Rosen isn't on this team. They traded up and took a worse player when they could have stayed back and took a better QB and still had their 2nd round pick. That's just a fact and thus my screename. Barkley isn't good either but it will buy them time to work with Allen more and try and salvage him. He was getting worse and worse. He's going to play himself out of a job if he continues to regress. Not sure what the hurry is to throw a raw player back out there to get killed when he hasn't had time to work on anything to improve. He just started throwing last week. Give him more time

[teef]

3 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

It really is this simple isn’t it? 

 

Thats where i’m at. 

at most barkley pulls off a few more wins, and then what?  he's a back up.  allen is what's important this year...not to string together a few meaningless wins.  if the coaches feel it's best for allen to sit longer, so be it.  all things being equal, allen should play.

[Stank_Nasty]

1 minute ago, teef said:

at most barkley pulls off a few more wins, and then what?  he's a back up.  allen is what's important this year...not to string together a few meaningless wins.  if the coaches feel it's best for allen to sit longer, so be it.  all things being equal, allen should play.

right. only way I would want to see barkley over allen is if they think watching will benefit him more than reps.... and I have a hard time believing that's the case.

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, WRONG JOSH said:

Rosen's better. Not sure what that has to do with Barkley starting over Allen for the time being so he can try and improve. Rosen isn't on this team. They traded up and took a worse player when they could have stayed back and took a better QB and still had their 2nd round pick. That's just a fact and thus my screename. Barkley isn't good either but it will buy them time to work with Allen more and try and salvage him. He was getting worse and worse. He's going to play himself out of a job if he continues to regress. Not sure what the hurry is to throw a raw player back out there to get killed when he hasn't had time to work on anything to improve. He just started throwing last week. Give him more time

When you equate your opinion with facts, there is nothing else to say. I rest my case.

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

When you equate your opinion with facts, there is nothing else to say. I rest my case.

Better in high school, better in college, better in the pros. Not sure who is going to argue against that one. People that prefer Allen think he MIGHT some day be better. And I MIGHT win the lottery. It could happen

[jrober38]

8 minutes ago, teef said:

at most barkley pulls off a few more wins, and then what?  he's a back up.  allen is what's important this year...not to string together a few meaningless wins.  if the coaches feel it's best for allen to sit longer, so be it.  all things being equal, allen should play.

 

I think Barkley playing is an important barometer for where the offense is the next time Allen takes the field.

 

For example, if Barkley plays pretty well, and then Allen gets back out there and struggles, it should be a cause for concern.

 

The issue for me so far is that the other QBs have been so bad that we've defaulted to assuming that the OC, WRs and OL aren't good enough. Yesterday showed that probably isn't the case. Daboll called a great game, Jones and Foster made plays, the OL blocked and the Bills ran the ball extremely well. It removed the idea that Allen is struggling because everything else around him is so bad. It showed the other things aren't as terrible as advertised. 

 

Our problem all season has been horrendous QB play. 

 

At this point I want to see a bigger sample size from Barkley. Give him the Jags game and see if yesterday was a fluke or if he's actually a massive upgrade over the other QBs we've had.

 

If Barkley tanks, which is likely considering how good the Jags pass D is, then you go back to Allen the next week. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by jrober38

[HappyDays]

43 minutes ago, teef said:

but what does this get you moving forward?.  barkley isn't the future.

 

Mahomes sat on the bench the whole season last year. He came in this season immediately playing at a high level from the first game. Personally I think Allen could use the time on the bench, and now it looks like we have a viable bridge QB so we can afford to let him sit.

[Rob's House]

Barkley. You don't want to bring Allen back against a top defense. Let Barkley take the Jags, and bring Allen in the following week to ease in against lesser competition. Unless, of course, Barkley lights it up again, in which case we may want to see what we have there.

 

The bottom line is there's no need to rush things with Allen. People who lack patience wait the longest.

[YoloinOhio]

If the Bills were truly “in the hunt” I’d stick with the hot hand (Barkley) but we all know they are not, math or no math in the elimination, so you go with your qb of the future, because his development is now the priority. 

[jrober38]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

If the Bills were truly “in the hunt” I’d stick with the hot hand (Barkley) but we all know they are not, math or no math in the elimination, so you go with your qb of the future, because his development is now the priority. 

 

I don't think he needs to be on the field to develop.

 

If he's not ready, then he's not ready. 

[Boca BIlls]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

I don't think he needs to be on the field to develop.

 

If he's not ready, then he's not ready. 

He said the game was finally slowing down for him right before he got hurt. You don't sit the guy that was finally "as he said" starting to see the game slow down. You dont learn on the sideline you earn by playing, that is the only way the game will slow down for you.

[Stank_Nasty]

6 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

Barkley. You don't want to bring Allen back against a top defense. Let Barkley take the Jags, and bring Allen in the following week to ease in against lesser competition. Unless, of course, Barkley lights it up again, in which case we may want to see what we have there.

 

The bottom line is there's no need to rush things with Allen. People who lack patience wait the longest.

29, 24, 20, 40, 30..... points given up by Jags in their last 5. they also give up 120 per game on the ground.... 

 

reps reps reps. play the rookie, please.

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

He said the game was finally slowing down for him right before he got hurt. You don't sit the guy that was finally "as he said" starting to see the game slow down. You dont learn on the sideline you earn by playing, that is the only way the game will slow down for you.

 

The game tape suggested the opposite. 

 

Allen had been steadily regressing since half time of the Vikings game. 

 

Our offense was completely non existent for 12 quarters with him at QB. 

[Stank_Nasty]

3 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

He said the game was finally slowing down for him right before he got hurt. You don't sit the guy that was finally "as he said" starting to see the game slow down. You dont learn on the sideline you earn by playing, that is the only way the game will slow down for you.

I don't think its a "one size fits all" sort of thing. but i'd still like to see him getting his PT.

[clayboy54]

I think McD needs to run it by the leadership council and learn the barometer of player buy-in. The argument that the locker room wants to win now with Barkley needs to be known versus the upside of getting Allen the experience and reps. It is a team game and ultimately the final decision need to be made based exclusively on the good of the team. Shady, Kyle, Lorax and the other leaders need to get the team aligned with the direction of the growth curve.

[kkim0904]

Start Barkley..Sit JA until Barkley looses a game.  There is no guarantee that JA will be a franchise QB we are waiting for.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, kkim0904 said:

Start Barkley..Sit JA until Barkley looses a game.  There is no guarantee that JA will be a franchise QB we are waiting for.

 

There's a guarantee that Barkley is not. The 3-7 record says play Allen along with the other young players we saw yesterday throughout the lineup. 

[teef]

27 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I think Barkley playing is an important barometer for where the offense is the next time Allen takes the field.

 

For example, if Barkley plays pretty well, and then Allen gets back out there and struggles, it should be a cause for concern.

 

The issue for me so far is that the other QBs have been so bad that we've defaulted to assuming that the OC, WRs and OL aren't good enough. Yesterday showed that probably isn't the case. Daboll called a great game, Jones and Foster made plays, the OL blocked and the Bills ran the ball extremely well. It removed the idea that Allen is struggling because everything else around him is so bad. It showed the other things aren't as terrible as advertised. 

 

Our problem all season has been horrendous QB play. 

 

At this point I want to see a bigger sample size from Barkley. Give him the Jags game and see if yesterday was a fluke or if he's actually a massive upgrade over the other QBs we've had.

 

If Barkley tanks, which is likely considering how good the Jags pass D is, then you go back to Allen the next week. 

no it shouldn't.  he's a rookie.  i'd expect struggles out of a rookie.  very much like you've seen from all rookies this year.  get the growing pains out of the way.  unless the coaches don't think he's ready, there's no reason not to start him.  

[Boca BIlls]

17 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The game tape suggested the opposite. 

 

Allen had been steadily regressing since half time of the Vikings game. 

 

Our offense was completely non existent for 12 quarters with him at QB. 

Would have been the same with Barkley, he just happened to play a team in disarray.  

[Albany,n.y.]

The people who want Barkley are either the same ones who wanted Reich to start in 1989 after Kelly was ready to return or if they're too young to remember 1989 are descendants of people who wanted Reich over Kelly in 1989.  

Edited November 12, 2018 by Albany,n.y.

[Boca BIlls]

Not to mention they finally put a speed reciever in.

[teef]

28 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Mahomes sat on the bench the whole season last year. He came in this season immediately playing at a high level from the first game. Personally I think Allen could use the time on the bench, and now it looks like we have a viable bridge QB so we can afford to let him sit.

i was all for sitting allen before the season, but that ship has sailed.  if the coaches think this is best, fine, but he's going to have to get some game time under his belt.  might as well be sooner rather than later.

[Boca BIlls]

Barkley isn't going to face the Jetd every week. He will be back to... oh that is why no one wanted him more soon enough.

[Gugny]

30 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Mahomes sat on the bench the whole season last year. He came in this season immediately playing at a high level from the first game. Personally I think Allen could use the time on the bench, and now it looks like we have a viable bridge QB so we can afford to let him sit.

 

Mahomes also had Alex Smith to learn from.  Mahomes also has Andy Reid as his HC.  Mahomes also has tons of weapons on offense.

 

Allen has:  Barkley, McDermott and Zay Jones.

 

Under different circumstances, I'd agree with you.  But I don't see Allen benefitting from being on the sidelines with this current roster/coaching staff.

[kkim0904]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

There's a guarantee that Barkley is not. The 3-7 record says play Allen along with the other young players we saw yesterday throughout the lineup. 

I agree. but, if he can give us a win, why we sit him.  Flutie gave us best chance to win, but BIlls went with then franchise QB rob johnson.  I am not saying  Barkley is future, but if he continues to win, then him play. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, teef said:

no it shouldn't.  he's a rookie.  i'd expect struggles out of a rookie.  very much like you've seen from all rookies this year.  get the growing pains out of the way.  unless the coaches don't think he's ready, there's no reason not to start him.  

 

I disagree.

 

If Allen goes out against the Jags and looks like crap after a month sitting and learning on the bench, there should be cause for concern. 

 

Ignoring the Bills, this year is weird in the sense that the rookie QBs all play for teams where the coach will get fired. 

 

Cleveland already fired their HC and OC and Mayfield has been excellent since. 

 

The Jets are going to fire Bowles, and the Cards should fire Wilks even though it's his first year because he's been awful. 

 

Yesterday showed that Daboll's offense can succeed with competent QB play. That being a reason Allen was struggling no longer seems valid. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, kkim0904 said:

I agree. but, if he can give us a win, why we sit him.  Flutie gave us best chance to win, but BIlls went with then franchise QB rob johnson.  I am not saying  Barkley is future, but if he continues to win, then him play. 

 

If the team were 5-5 then I could see your rationale, but at 3-7 I don't buy it.  

[jrober38]

4 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

Would have been the same with Barkley, he just happened to play a team in disarray.  

 

You don't know this.

 

Yesterday was far and away the best QB play we've seen all year so saying we'd have been just as inept as we were against the Packers, Titans and Texans doesn't make much sense. 

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

If the team were 5-5 then I could see your rationale, but at 3-7 I don't buy it.  

 

The Bills know Allen is going to be their starting QB next year. That's a given. 

 

What we don't know is what will happen with the other 10 guys on offense.

 

Yesterday was valuable in the sense that it allowed us to actually evaluate all the other players on offense. 

 

We saw Foster can get behind a defense, we saw that Jones is consistently getting better, we saw that the offensive line might not be a total reconstruction, and we saw that Marcus Murphy can contribute. 

 

We weren't able to evaluate any of those things with Allen, Peterman or Anderson on the field. 

[FLFan]

The sudden confidence in Barkley is the same overreaction we have been witnessing here all season, albeit in a different form. Personally, I am not getting too high over what we witnessed yesterday, nor was I getting too low over what we witnessed the previous game.  Steady as she goes and eye on the prize.  This season is all about getting Josh Allen ready to compete at a high level.  He is not going to do that sitting on the bench watching Matt Barkley play, who will return to the mean soon enough.

 

This game was a great boost to the team - a confidence building experience for sure.  We knew the defense could dominate.  Lets hope yesterday's performance provides some positive lessons and renewed confidence on the offensive side of he ball, but I want to see Allen under center against Jacksonville.

[teef]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I disagree.

 

If Allen goes out against the Jags and looks like crap after a month sitting and learning on the bench, there should be cause for concern. 

 

Ignoring the Bills, this year is weird in the sense that the rookie QBs all play for teams where the coach will get fired. 

 

Cleveland already fired their HC and OC and Mayfield has been excellent since. 

 

The Jets are going to fire Bowles, and the Cards should fire Wilks even though it's his first year because he's been awful. 

 

Yesterday showed that Daboll's offense can succeed with competent QB play. That being a reason Allen was struggling no longer seems valid. 

and i don't agree with this.  i don't expect allen to come in and light up the world just because he's sat hurt for a few weeks.  it's nuts to think otherwise.  what would be cause for concern would be if allen continues to play, and doesn't show any improvement during that time.  he needs to play and learn.  you are way over valuing this game with the jags.  this season is over.  it's time to see if allen can get better.

[Troll Toll]

I think you have to let it run it’s course. You can’t risk having one guy that ran the offense the best so far getting benched for a guy that comes in and stinks up the joint. Let Barkley play himself out of the job and into a supportive role for Josh.

 

Josh can learn a ton from Barkley, so I’d like the team to do things to make sure he sticks around and is a good teammate. He definitely earned another start yesterday. The locker room could sour on Josh if he starts the next game and they stink. While I’d like to see what Josh can do, the best thing for the team is to ensure that they believe our coaches have winning as the number one priority. 

[teef]

7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

You don't know this.

 

Yesterday was far and away the best QB play we've seen all year so saying we'd have been just as inept as we were against the Packers, Titans and Texans doesn't make much sense. 

 

The Bills know Allen is going to be their starting QB next year. That's a given. 

 

What we don't know is what will happen with the other 10 guys on offense.

 

Yesterday was valuable in the sense that it allowed us to actually evaluate all the other players on offense. 

 

We saw Foster can get behind a defense, we saw that Jones is consistently getting better, we saw that the offensive line might not be a total reconstruction, and we saw that Marcus Murphy can contribute. 

 

We weren't able to evaluate any of those things with Allen, Peterman or Anderson on the field. 

this is over blown.  the only thing the qb is making more difficult to evaluate is wr, and i think we all know the state of the position.  

10 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I disagree.

 

If Allen goes out against the Jags and looks like crap after a month sitting and learning on the bench, there should be cause for concern. 

 

Ignoring the Bills, this year is weird in the sense that the rookie QBs all play for teams where the coach will get fired. 

 

Cleveland already fired their HC and OC and Mayfield has been excellent since. 

 

The Jets are going to fire Bowles, and the Cards should fire Wilks even though it's his first year because he's been awful. 

 

Yesterday showed that Daboll's offense can succeed with competent QB play. That being a reason Allen was struggling no longer seems valid. 

uh...other than he's a rookie and needs to play?

[dubs]

I think this is actually a tough decision, not really an obvious right or wrong answer. Barkley was good yesterday and the offense looked very good, but let’s be honest about his past, he hasn’t been good and was not on an NFL roster. So it could be an abbaration or that the Jets basically quit. On the flip side, the plan really was to sit Josh as long as possible this year to help ease him into the NFL. I like that approach especially with a guy who’s biggest question is if he can acclimate to NFL speed, defenses, etc. Allen showed some nice flashes so far, but mostly looked a little overmatched from a mental standpoint. 

 

I also think thay if Barkley can take the next two weeks to better learn the offense, perhaps the team will be able to better run the offense, which will help the organization evaluate the offensive line and WRs and not put so much stress on the defense. 

 

Assuming that Barkley can bring competent QB play the rest of the year, I think the benefit to starting Barkley outweighs the benefit to starting Allen. I also think the risk is less, because if Barkley comes back down to earth you can always go back to Allen and get him some work in. 

 

So...just talked myself into Barkley. Ha. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by dubs

[RochesterRob]

12 hours ago, MarkAF43 said:

To me while Barkley played well it’s the equivalent of Peterman in the preseason. Everyone thought he looked great and then when it was for real against a legit D who isn’t playing to get their coach fired, he buckled. You have nothing additional to gain by starting Barkley. If Allen is healthy he goes. That’s my opinion. 

  The Jets defense is not so bad as to be compared to a preseason effort.  The biggest problem I saw is the Jets were anticipating the pop gun offense the Bills had been putting out prior to yesterday and not mentally adjusting to it.  To me on most plays Barkley had an internal clock that told him to fire the ball after a couple of seconds to thwart the pass rush regardless if a receiver was in position to catch it.  That would explain some of Barkley's non-completions in my mind.

[PittsforDave]

 

Stick with the hot hand. 

 

Lets avoid benching Allen half way through a game. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by PittsforDave