Anyone ever consider bringing in Doug Whaley JUST to scout pro personnel?

[26CornerBlitz]

On 6/20/2018 at 7:57 AM, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Ex-Bills GM Whaley named NFLPA's college scouting director

WASHINGTON (AP) — Former Buffalo Bills general manager Doug Whaley is taking over as the NFL Players Association's director of college scouting.

 

Whaley will oversee the recruitment, evaluation and selection of draft-eligible prospects to compete at the annual NFLPA Collegiate Bowl. He replaces Tony Softli, who left to become the Alliance of American Football's scouting director.

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

7 hours ago, Leonhart2017 said:

Ok I have had a few to drink tonight. Having said that aside from the Watkins trade (other than that how was the play Mrs. Lincoln) he made some decent moves on the player side. If we had promoted schwartz we would have likely been a playoff team in 2015 and 2016. Even with Rex as coach, a decision which wasn’t his, we were really close each year. Last year when we made the playoffs a majority of Whaley’s DNA was in that team. He will likely never come back in the near future but as far as drought GMs go he was the best and probably helped end the drought more than any other person.

I know you’ve got one heck of a hangover to suffer through this morning—my condolences ?! That said, I won’t argue over the low bar that is “drought GM’s” and their rankings—I will commit that he was better than his immediate predecessor Nix

[jethro_tull]

sure.  just hit the restart button, why not?  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 hours ago, CookieG said:

 

My only hope is that they realize their limitations and hire someone who can.

 

Tired take. If you on the one hand say they don’t know offense but haven’t taken anyone, how can you know their limitations ?

[Matt_In_NH]

No no one would have thought about that.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, jethro_tull said:

sure.  just hit the restart button, why not?  

 

...maybe we could wake Buddy up and bring 'em outta retirement/hibernation?..................

[Mike in Horseheads]

no.

[Mr. WEO]

14 hours ago, Augie said:

 

 I wonder what things might have looked like if Sammy didn’t have that dirty knee/jump dirty shot to the the ribs in preseason as a rookie.   

 

No need to wonder.  Just look at his stints in LA and KC so far..

 

And to answer the question in the OP's thread title: no, absolutely no one in the NFL has considered bringing in Doug Whaley to scout pro personnel (do they really need to be "scouted"?--every team has miles of film on every other team and it's players and the number of players is limited.  It's always a question of what a team will give up for a guy they want.  That;s not scouting).

 

Anyway, "water always finds its level" and Whaley's skill set has found its level...scouting C list college kids for an obscure all star game.

[BringBackOrton]

16 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Are we sure that Beane is a better GM than Whaley? He certainly isn’t as good on the pro side. Beane gets a lot of credit for “fixing the cap” but it’s easy to tear it down. Building it back is the tricky part. We have no idea what that will look like. I have liked the way that Beane has navigated the draft. 

Beane is lucky McD picked him and not the other way around.  Whaley couldn't draft stars and couldn't pick a coach.

[Rob's House]

Wasn't that his job last time he was here?

[ProcessAccepted]

13 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The professional players that he signed or traded for vs. the professional players that this regime has signed or traded for. Whaley was ELITE in that area. It isn’t even a discussion.

I think that this is true but there have been misses (see Jones, Zay). In general though he’s drafted pretty well. 

 

Can you give me the top 5 examples you are thinking about?

[Rc2catch]

17 hours ago, vorpma said:

You can't be serious; if he did such a great job he would be a GM now! He failed, lousy drafts, lousy trades, lousy FA signings! He is not working as a GM for a reason, get serious dude!

Lol well maybe I missed all the lousy trades and free agent signings, cause he hit major home runs on a lot of those. The drafts were questionable I’ll give ya that 

[vorpma]

52 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Lol well maybe I missed all the lousy trades and free agent signings, cause he hit major home runs on a lot of those. The drafts were questionable I’ll give ya that 

Bottom line - not even close to the playoffs during his time here and had compatibility issues with two head coaches - Cowther and Marrone. If he had it he would a GM or head scout today but he is not!

54 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Lol well maybe I missed all the lousy trades and free agent signings, cause he hit major home runs on a lot of those. The drafts were questionable I’ll give ya that 

Who did he hit home runs on?

 

[GreatComeback]

20 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

He has a job.

 

Not a very good one.  He’d jump at the chance to rejoin an NFL team.  

 

While the move makes sense on paper, it would be foolish for Beane to bring him on onboard.  Would you really the person whose job you took to work under you?  Doesn’t seem like a good situation 

 

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, ProcessAccepted said:

 

Can you give me the top 5 examples you are thinking about?

 

Whaley brought in InCog, traded for Shady, signed Tyrod (say what you will about him but Tyrod was a huge upgrade at QB from EJ), signed Lorax, and also found Mills who was/is a decent RT who they got for basically nothing. Whaley was also working with McD when they found Hyde, Proyer, and Haush. Whaley wasn't perfect there were some misses but the pro-personnel decisions were very good overall.

 

That being said Whaley isn't coming back nor would it be a good idea to bring him back. In any organization you can't have someone who used to be the boss working under the guy that forced him out. Also a lot of the pro-scouts that Whaley assembled are probably no longer with the organization. The Bills should probably just look to invest in better overall pro-scouting

[GreatComeback]

1 hour ago, ProcessAccepted said:

 

Can you give me the top 5 examples you are thinking about?

 

Whaley did a pretty good job of signing those lower tier players/free agents who ended up being very productive on the team.  

 

He was not so good at drafting and he was marginally below average at big free agent signings

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, ProcessAccepted said:

 

Can you give me the top 5 examples you are thinking about?

Sure:

Zach Brown (minimal salary - Pro Bowl) 

Mike Gillislee (5.7 YPC tops in the league & 8 TDS)

Poyer

Hyde

Hughes for Kelvin Sheppard

 

Does that work for you?

[BringBackOrton]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Sure:

Zach Brown (minimal salary - Pro Bowl) 

Mike Gillislee (5.7 YPC tops in the league & 8 TDS)

Poyer

Hyde

Hughes for Kelvin Sheppard

 

Does that work for you?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha okay bro.

[ProcessAccepted]

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Sure:

Zach Brown (minimal salary - Pro Bowl) 

Mike Gillislee (5.7 YPC tops in the league & 8 TDS)

Poyer

Hyde

Hughes for Kelvin Sheppard

 

Does that work for you?

 

To be honest that list isn't ELITE like you were going on about earlier. Hughes was a really good trade but over the 4 or 5 years he was GM I'm not sure that list is special.

[Rc2catch]

1 hour ago, vorpma said:

Bottom line - not even close to the playoffs during his time here and had compatibility issues with two head coaches - Cowther and Marrone. If he had it he would a GM or head scout today but he is not!

Who did he hit home runs on?

 

The McCoy trade, signing zac brown, the obvious Hughes trade. 

Preston brown was a good draft pick and also Darby.. Not sure if we blame EJ on him, but same year woods, goodwin, Hopkins, Alonso, all starters on their teams now

Signing incognito, manny Lawson, nickel roby (udfa) 

 

No matter how you spin it, the guy made bold moves. We know of the misses but seriously how can you not say he went out and built good rosters? 

If you pair decent quarterback play with those teams they are playoffs easily. Kyle friggen Orton almost had them in the playoffs. 

Let’s not forget he built rosters for 2 coaches with complete different schemes. 

Went through a weird transition of a new owner. 

I totally get the negatives about him, but the guy made moves and acquired talent. 

As for not having a GM job right now, most guys take time off after being let go, and resurface later. 

And I’m not sure what his current job is but it wasn’t a crap job maybe he makes decent money at that and has more free time.

to call the guy a bad gm or garbage is silly. 

Nobody succeeds without a hit on a quarterback. That was his failure. But many fail there’s only so many franchise quarterbacks around to acquire 

[vorpma]

21 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

The McCoy trade, signing zac brown, the obvious Hughes trade. 

Preston brown was a good draft pick and also Darby.. Not sure if we blame EJ on him, but same year woods, goodwin, Hopkins, Alonso, all starters on their teams now

Signing incognito, manny Lawson, nickel roby (udfa) 

 

No matter how you spin it, the guy made bold moves. We know of the misses but seriously how can you not say he went out and built good rosters? 

If you pair decent quarterback play with those teams they are playoffs easily. Kyle friggen Orton almost had them in the playoffs. 

Let’s not forget he built rosters for 2 coaches with complete different schemes. 

Went through a weird transition of a new owner. 

I totally get the negatives about him, but the guy made moves and acquired talent. 

As for not having a GM job right now, most guys take time off after being let go, and resurface later. 

And I’m not sure what his current job is but it wasn’t a crap job maybe he makes decent money at that and has more free time.

to call the guy a bad gm or garbage is silly. 

Nobody succeeds without a hit on a quarterback. That was his failure. But many fail there’s only so many franchise quarterbacks around to acquire 

Just not sold, we had superstars in the past and still really bad football teams! Like I stated earlier, he had problems with Head Coaches and he never fielded a playoff contender. If he had potential he would be working this minute; most quality GMs receive job offers immediately upon being out of a contract, it's the NFL - everyone wants quality. I stand by my prediction, he will never work as a GM or Head Scout again.

[DC Tom]

Came here looking for a morinic Mahomes take.  And I am very disappointed.  You idiots are too idiotic to even idiot properly.

[Rico]

3 minutes ago, vorpma said:

Just not sold, we had superstars in the past and still really bad football teams! Like I stated earlier, he had problems with Head Coaches and he never fielded a playoff contender. If he had potential he would be working this minute; most quality GMs receive job offers immediately upon being out of a contract, it's the NFL - everyone wants quality. I stand by my prediction, he will never work as a GM or Head Scout again.

He's holding out for the Pats job once Belichick finally retires.

[Bill_with_it]

1 minute ago, Rico said:

He's holding out for the Pats job once Belichick finally retires.

Rico your pretty funny.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha okay bro.

We aren’t going to count them? 

 

I will take Lorenzo Alexander (Pro Bowl on a minimal salary) & Richie Incignito (Pro Bowl on a minimal salary) then. If you really think that Beane has been better on pro players than Whaley was you are an idiot. Whaley was ELITE in that area.

[vorpma]

38 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said:

Rico your pretty funny.

Hmmm, I don't think so Rico, Doug Whaley will have to buy a ticket to get back in the NFL! Love your loyalty!

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, ProcessAccepted said:

 

To be honest that list isn't ELITE like you were going on about earlier. Hughes was a really good trade but over the 4 or 5 years he was GM I'm not sure that list is special.

You find a GM, and you can take the entire league, that got the bang for the buck on the pro side that he did. I promise that you don’t want to go down that road because he was masterful in that area. I didn’t even mention Kiko for Shady. He is, and has been, a wizard on the pro personnel side.

[Rico]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

We aren’t going to count them? 

 

I will take Lorenzo Alexander (Pro Bowl on a minimal salary) & Richie Incignito (Pro Bowl on a minimal salary) then. If you really think that Beane has been better on pro players than Whaley was you are an idiot. Whaley was ELITE in that area.

Of course you're not going to count Poyer or Hyde, he or his staff had nothing to do with either of them.

[Bill_with_it]

1 minute ago, Rico said:

Of course you're not going to count Poyer or Hyde, he or his staff had nothing to do with either of them.

Ecactly just as hughes was nix.

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, Rico said:

Of course you're not going to count Poyer or Hyde, he or his staff had nothing to do with either of them.

Okay, he was 100% in control in March of that year. He held the job into May. If you don’t want to count them because you hate Whaley (which you’ve made clear a lot) I’ll take Shady, Alexander and Richie. Please, please, please try to stack Beane’s pro personnel record side-by-side. 

 

You can own Jordan Matthews and Kelvin Benjamin.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[Rico]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Okay, he was 100% in control in March of that year. He held the job into May. If you don’t want to count them because you hate Whaley (which you’ve made clear a lot) I’ll take Shady, Alexander on Richie. Please, please, please try to stack Beane’s pro personnel record side-by-side. 

No, I don't want to count them because he had nothing to do with either of them. Hyde was McD, and Poyer was McD (w/ Bobby Babich). He can have the gift of Shady and Alexander, I have no problem with that

[BillsfaninChicago]

9 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I know you’ve got one heck of a hangover to suffer through this morning—my condolences ?! That said, I won’t argue over the low bar that is “drought GM’s” and their rankings—I will commit that he was better than his immediate predecessor Nix

You are not wrong I was hungover this morning! I also do agree there is definitely a low bar with drought GMs.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Rico said:

No, I don't want to count them because he had nothing to do with either of them. Hyde was McD, and Poyer was McD (w/ Bobby Babich). He can have the gift of Shady and Alexander, I have no problem with that

You can give 0% credit to the GM if it helps your agenda. That’s not reality though. He absolutely was in on those 2. Beane can have Matthews, Benjamin, Philly Brown, Duccase, Leonard Johnson....

 

The pro records between the 2 isn’t even up for debate. There is no comparison on the pro side. Now I like how Beane has navigated the draft and think that he’s drafted alright (assuming Allen can play). We aren’t taking about the draft though. We are discussing pro personnel.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[Rico]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Beane can have Matthews, Benjamin, Philly Brown, Duccase, Leonard Johnson....

 

The pro records between the 2 isn’t even up for debate. There is no comparison on the pro side. Now I like how Beane has navigated the draft and think that he’s drafted alright (assuming Allen can play). We aren’t taking about the draft though. We are discussing pro personnel.

The verdict isn't in though on all of Beane's moves, unlike Whaley who we all know was an all around FAILURE.

[BringBackOrton]

51 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

We aren’t going to count them? 

 

I will take Lorenzo Alexander (Pro Bowl on a minimal salary) & Richie Incignito (Pro Bowl on a minimal salary) then. If you really think that Beane has been better on pro players than Whaley was you are an idiot. Whaley was ELITE in that area.

We aren't going to count the guys that McDermott said he personally watched and scouted?  No, we aren't.  LOL.

[Kirby Jackson]

24 minutes ago, Rico said:

The verdict isn't in though on all of Beane's moves, unlike Whaley who we all know was an all around FAILURE.

Clearly he wasn’t an all-around failure. I listed like 5 moves that were pro bowl caliber players on minimal salaries. Whaley excelled on the pro side. Again, you hate him but you are dead wrong if you can’t admit the success that he had there. The Bills got guys, for very little, that provided big contributions. 

 

The book hasn’t been written on Beane but the first few chapters aren’t very good. This is one of the least talented Bills teams that over ever seen. They did try to clear the deck though so we will know more next year. The early returns on the pro side though have not been good at all.

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

We aren't going to count the guys that McDermott said he personally watched and scouted?  No, we aren't.  LOL.

Can you share that quote? I hadn’t seen it. 

[Bill_with_it]

Man i remember those awesome percy harvin and matt cassell signings those were fantastic, couple that with that marcell extension and all the sweet draftings well then what have you got? A guy that will never be a gm again.

[BringBackOrton]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Clearly he wasn’t an all-around failure. I listed like 5 moves that were pro bowl caliber players on minimal salaries. Whaley excelled on the pro side. Again, you hate him but you are dead wrong if you can’t admit the success that he had there. The Bills got guys, for very little, that provided big contributions. 

 

The book hasn’t been written on Beane but the first few chapters aren’t very good. This is one of the least talented Bills teams that over ever seen. They did try to clear the deck though so we will know more next year. The early returns on the pro side though have not been good at all.

Can you share that quote? I hadn’t seen it. 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/12/how_did_buffalo_bills_land_micah_hyde_in_free_agency_ask_the_green_bay_packers.html

 

But while McDermott was the defensive coordinator for the Carolina Panthers, he had spent plenty of time "T.V. scouting" Hyde whenever he had a chance. He saw a player who could play all over the field, and the two have a mutual friend, so he knew the type of person and leader Hyde could be. So when his first free agency with the Bills rolled around, McDermott put on the tape to see if it would match up with what he'd seen on television. 

"The weird part about it is when I TV scouted him I couldn't get a real feel for what he was until you turn the tape on and see, 'Could he be a full time safety for us?'" McDermott said. 

McDermott and the Bills signed Hyde to a five-year, $32.5 million contract with $14 million in guarantees on the first day of free agency.

[Rad Likes The Bills]

Just now, Bill_with_it said:

Man i remember those awesome percy harvin and matt cassell signings those were fantastic, couple that with that marcell extension and all the sweet draftings well then what have you got? A guy that will never be a gm again.

Lol are you seriously saying Percy Harvin at 1 year 4 mill wasn’t worth the investment at the time? Not like we had him on a huge contract and he flipped Cassell for a 7th when it was clear he wasn’t the starter.. idk why those would be held against him 

[BringBackOrton]

8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Clearly he wasn’t an all-around failure. I listed like 5 moves that were pro bowl caliber players on minimal salaries. Whaley excelled on the pro side. Again, you hate him but you are dead wrong if you can’t admit the success that he had there. The Bills got guys, for very little, that provided big contributions. 

 

The book hasn’t been written on Beane but the first few chapters aren’t very good. This is one of the least talented Bills teams that over ever seen. They did try to clear the deck though so we will know more next year. The early returns on the pro side though have not been good at all.

Can you share that quote? I hadn’t seen it. 

I think we can all admit dumpster diving was a bright spot in the Whaley era.  The issue is for me, is that those good couple of FA pickups are what saves Whaley from being a terrible GM and instead just mediocre to bad.