The Rosen Era Has Begun in Arizona

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 hours ago, NJKBillsfan said:

He has more TD's than INT'S. 

 

We can't say the same for Allen who only as 7 TD's and 12 INT's. 

 

Actually, he has 13 total TD and 11 int.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

9 hours ago, Looper said:

 

He has Larry Fitzgerald - we have Curly, Larry & Moe.

Actually, the Bills have Moe, Larry, and ‘fake Shemp’.  Look it up, readers, if the reference makes no sense.

[dave mcbride]

12 hours ago, Looper said:

 

He has Larry Fitzgerald - we have Curly, Larry & Moe.

Their offense is terrible. Like, really terrible. Ours is bad too, I know.

 

You do realize that Larry Fitzgerald is running a 4.8-4.9 40 now, right?

8 hours ago, NJKBillsfan said:

He has more TD's than INT'S. 

 

We can't say the same for Allen who only as 7 TD's and 12 INT's. 

If the qb runs it, in, it's a td for him.

Edited December 24, 2018 by dave mcbride

[tcampbell104]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Their offense is terrible. Like, really terrible. Ours is bad too, I know.

 

You do realize that Larry Fitzgerald is running a 4.8-4.9 40 now, right?

where did you get that information

[Seventeen]

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Their offense is terrible. Like, really terrible. Ours is bad too, I know.

 

You do realize that Larry Fitzgerald is running a 4.8-4.9 40 now, right?

If the qb runs it, in, it's a td for him.

 

Yeah, but I also realize that Fitz catches everything thrown his way (65 receptions 5 TDs) so his speed isn't an issue.

 

See Kelvin Benjamin ...

Edited December 24, 2018 by Looper

[syhuang]

after week week 16:

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2018 by syhuang

[26CornerBlitz]

 

We could do 800 words on each player, but let’s save it for the offseason and settle for essentially expanded tweets on each guy:

 

2. Josh Rosen: He was better in his first few starts, before Arizona’s already subpar O-line fell apart, its so-so receiving corps regressed (and lost impressive rookie Christian Kirk), and a change was made at offensive coordinator. Yes, replacing OC Mike McCoy with Byron Leftwich will likely be good for Rosen’s big-picture growth, but the system change that comes with it is difficult to implement on the fly. When Rosen is comfortable, his precision accuracy is among the best in the league. That’s enough to make his long-term outlook bright.

[syhuang]

 

[John from Riverside]

On 12/23/2018 at 6:25 PM, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Oh it's worse.  Their OL can't block anyone.  

They can however run the ball....which really helps a qb

[Doc]

Not worried about any of the other QB's.  Get Josh something better than the worst supporting cast in the NFL and see how things improve.

[syhuang]

 

[MILFHUNTER#518]

1 minute ago, syhuang said:

 

Lamar Jackson literally cannot throw the football  out more than 6-7 yds accurately and Rosen 's QBR is almost 17 pts lower...

[C.Biscuit97]

8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

They can however run the ball....which really helps a qb

Huh? Johnson is averaging 3.6 ypa and they have the lowest ypa as a team.  

 

You are severely underestimating how bad Arizona is.  

 

In terms of talent around them, I’d rank them:

1 - baker

2 - jackson

3 - Darnold (their group kinda sucks too)

tied for 4 - Allen and Rosen

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

Not worried about any of the other QB's.  Get Josh something better than the worst supporting cast in the NFL and see how things improve.

Quick name SF’s starting receivers this week!

[Doc]

42 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Quick name SF’s starting receivers this week!

 

I know George Kittle and Marquise Goodwin.  But their OL and running game is far superior.

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I know George Kittle and Marquise Goodwin.  But their OL and running game is far superior.

They have 100 more rushing yards than us for the season. http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing

 

goodwin has less than 400 yards, so it’s looking like last year was the completel outliner for his career (would great number 4 though).  

 

Point is, even though we pretend, Allen isn’t the only qb in the nfl who isn’t surround by all pros.  

[syhuang]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They have 100 more rushing yards than us for the season. http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing

 

goodwin has less than 400 yards, so it’s looking like last year was the completel outliner for his career (would great number 4 though).  

 

Point is, even though we pretend, Allen isn’t the only qb in the nfl who isn’t surround by all pros.  

 

I assume when Doc said 'running' game', he didn't mean to include QB rushing yards after QBs escape from pass rush. Comparing Buffalo and SF, Buffalo's quarterbacks have 583 rushing yards where 536 are from Allen while SF's QBs only have 88. If we remove QB rushing yards just for a moment, Buffalo has 341 rushes for 1235 yards, or 3.62 YDS/A. On the other hand, SF has 357 rushes for 1687 yards, or 4.72 YDS/A.

 

Of course there are designed QB runs, but you get the picture.

[thebandit27]

18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They have 100 more rushing yards than us for the season. http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing

 

goodwin has less than 400 yards, so it’s looking like last year was the completel outliner for his career (would great number 4 though).  

 

Point is, even though we pretend, Allen isn’t the only qb in the nfl who isn’t surround by all pros.  

 

Of course he isn't the only one without an all pro (though Larry Fitzgerald is a former all pro).

 

Allen is, however, the only QB surrounded by the worst group of pass catchers in the modern era.

[Doc]

26 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They have 100 more rushing yards than us for the season. http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing

 

goodwin has less than 400 yards, so it’s looking like last year was the completel outliner for his career (would great number 4 though).  

 

Point is, even though we pretend, Allen isn’t the only qb in the nfl who isn’t surround by all pros.  

 

They have similar talent at WR, an all-pro TE, an excellent OL, a very good running game that doesn't need the QB to inflate its numbers, and a top OC.  And Mullens is still 3-4 as a starter.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Doc

[billspro]

1 hour ago, syhuang said:

 

 

Matches up with how they have looked imo

[C.Biscuit97]

10 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Of course he isn't the only one without an all pro (though Larry Fitzgerald is a former all pro).

 

Allen is, however, the only QB surrounded by the worst group of pass catchers in the modern era.

The front office that drafted Allen, assembled the offense!  They traded up for Zay instead of Cooper or JuJuin the 2nd. They traded for Benjamin (former 1,000 yard receiver). Clay and McCoy were also valuable receivers.  They picked 2 undersized slot receivers.  Maybe they just suck at evaluating offense.

 

So while the receivers were poor, I think people go into hyperbole to defend Allen.  It isn’t the worst group in history (come on Bandit, you’re better than that).  Our receivers can suck and Allen needs to improve on accuracy.  Just like Rosen needs to.  

[Fan in Chicago]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The front office that drafted Allen, assembled the offense!  They traded up for Zay instead of Cooper or JuJuin the 2nd. They traded for Benjamin (former 1,000 yard receiver). Clay and McCoy were also valuable receivers.  They picked 2 undersized slot receivers.  Maybe they just suck at evaluating offense.

 

So while the receivers were poor, I think people go into hyperbole to defend Allen.  It isn’t the worst group in history (come on Bandit, you’re better than that).  Our receivers can suck and Allen needs to improve on accuracy.  Just like Rosen needs to.  

It is clear that the FO did not help the rookie QB but if Benjamin and Clay had put in effort and performed, the results would be a lot better perhaps translating into a couple of more wins and a more fair chance of evaluating Allen. For that reason, I marginally hate KB and Clay - they did not earn a single paycheck. 

[John from Riverside]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The front office that drafted Allen, assembled the offense!  They traded up for Zay instead of Cooper or JuJuin the 2nd. They traded for Benjamin (former 1,000 yard receiver). Clay and McCoy were also valuable receivers.  They picked 2 undersized slot receivers.  Maybe they just suck at evaluating offense.

 

So while the receivers were poor, I think people go into hyperbole to defend Allen.  It isn’t the worst group in history (come on Bandit, you’re better than that).  Our receivers can suck and Allen needs to improve on accuracy.  Just like Rosen needs to.  

The difference is Rosen should not NEED to improve his accuracy....he is supposed to be the most pro ready QB in this draft....stir and ready

 

I really just dont understand what ppl see sometimes.....sure Allen has thrown some bad balls but for various reasons balls that should be caught by NFL receivers (supposidly) are not being caught.......and we are not talking a bout area code accuracy.....Josh Allen THROWS WR's OPEN.....he puts it right where it should be caught....and is not.......

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

It is clear that the FO did not help the rookie QB but if Benjamin and Clay had put in effort and performed, the results would be a lot better perhaps translating into a couple of more wins and a more fair chance of evaluating Allen. For that reason, I marginally hate KB and Clay - they did not earn a single paycheck. 

But that’s kinda my point.  They observed KB up close and still traded a decent pick for him.  They have made so many bad offensive moves.  And I’m not say it will be, but perhaps Allen was another.  They took risky first round qb, next to Jackson, and they clearly don’t know how to bring him around correctly.  

 

But hopefully all of these guys will get upgrades this offseason. I’m just sick of hearing everything since high school wasn’t Allen’s fault.  Personally, I think a rookie qb is helped by playing with a top 5 defense that keeps him in every game. But I guess that doesn’t count. 

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

The difference is Rosen should not NEED to improve his accuracy....he is supposed to be the most pro ready QB in this draft....stir and ready

 

I really just dont understand what ppl see sometimes.....sure Allen has thrown some bad balls but for various reasons balls that should be caught by NFL receivers (supposidly) are not being caught.......and we are not talking a bout area code accuracy.....Josh Allen THROWS WR's OPEN.....he puts it right where it should be caught....and is not.......

 

 

I mean you are seeing what you want to see because you’re a Bills fan.  I’ve seen great throws by Allen.  I’ve also seen a bunch of plays that make think he will never be consistent enough to be a franchise guy.

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The difference is Rosen should not NEED to improve his accuracy....he is supposed to be the most pro ready QB in this draft....stir and ready

 

I really just dont understand what ppl see sometimes.....sure Allen has thrown some bad balls but for various reasons balls that should be caught by NFL receivers (supposidly) are not being caught.......and we are not talking a bout area code accuracy.....Josh Allen THROWS WR's OPEN.....he puts it right where it should be caught....and is not.......

 

No he doesn't at least not with any regularity.  He's not very good at this stage of his career making anticipatory throws that he'll let fly before his target makes their break. 

Edited December 26, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But that’s kinda my point.  They observed KB up close and still traded a decent pick for him.  They have made so many bad offensive moves.  And I’m not say it will be, but perhaps Allen was another.  They took risky first round qb, next to Jackson, and they clearly don’t know how to bring him around correctly.  

 

But hopefully all of these guys will get upgrades this offseason. I’m just sick of hearing everything since high school wasn’t Allen’s fault.  Personally, I think a rookie qb is helped by playing with a top 5 defense that keeps him in every game. But I guess that doesn’t count. 

I mean you are seeing what you want to see because you’re a Bills fan.  I’ve seen great throws by Allen.  I’ve also seen a bunch of plays that make think he will never be consistent enough to be a franchise guy.

 

 

And who is seeing what they want to see?

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

No he doesn't at least not with any regularity.  He's not very good at this stage of his career making anticipatory throws that he'll make before his target makes their break. 

I did not say he does it all the time.....I said he does it.

 

Tyrod had a huge problem with this.   Josh is a rookie.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

And who is seeing what they want to see?

I did not say he does it all the time.....I said he does it.

 

Tyrod had a huge problem with this.   Josh is a rookie.

 

You posted that in bold caps as if it's a strength in his game when in fact it is not. 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You posted that in bold caps as if it's a strength in his game when in fact it is not. 

No...I am pointing out that he has rookie moments where he shows this in his game......

 

Josh Allen is very raw.....and to show i in his first season (and not even a complete one) is a good thing........

[LSHMEAB]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

No...I am pointing out that he has rookie moments where he shows this in his game......

 

Josh Allen is very raw.....and to show i in his first season (and not even a complete one) is a good thing........

What does raw mean?

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[thebandit27]

28 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The front office that drafted Allen, assembled the offense!  They traded up for Zay instead of Cooper or JuJuin the 2nd. They traded for Benjamin (former 1,000 yard receiver). Clay and McCoy were also valuable receivers.  They picked 2 undersized slot receivers.  Maybe they just suck at evaluating offense.

 

So while the receivers were poor, I think people go into hyperbole to defend Allen.  It isn’t the worst group in history (come on Bandit, you’re better than that).  Our receivers can suck and Allen needs to improve on accuracy.  Just like Rosen needs to.  

 

Yes, I think Beane and McDermott have struggled mightily to identify skill position talent.

 

And I challenge anyone to find me a worse group of pass catchers in the modern era.

 

Their WR1 had the fewest yards of separation per snap and the highest drop rate--in the entire NFL. He was outright released mid season. 

 

The pass catchers on this team  routinely struggle to secure pedestrian-type receptions.

 

I mean, we're at the point where analysts are asking if our QB throws the ball too hard for them  This is actually being asked about NFL WRs.

 

You know my style; I'm not going to say something outlandish for the sake of propping up a player. And so when I say they're that bad, I don't say it lightly.

[C.Biscuit97]

9 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Yes, I think Beane and McDermott have struggled mightily to identify skill position talent.

 

And I challenge anyone to find me a worse group of pass catchers in the modern era.

 

Their WR1 had the fewest yards of separation per snap and the highest drop rate--in the entire NFL. He was outright released mid season. 

 

The pass catchers on this team  routinely struggle to secure pedestrian-type receptions.

 

I mean, we're at the point where analysts are asking if our QB throws the ball too hard for them  This is actually being asked about NFL WRs.

 

You know my style; I'm not going to say something outlandish for the sake of propping up a player. And so when I say they're that bad, I don't say it lightly.

Of the top of my head in recent years:

 

last year’s bears: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2017.htm

 

2014 49ers:  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/2016.htm

i can’t believe Kaepernick only had 16 tds and 4 ints throwing to Kerley and Patton!!! What a bum.

 

its also worth pointing out that Allen averages almost 70 yards passing than Anderson/ Barkley.  Those are dime a dozen backups who were brought in the middle of the season.  Did the wrs suddenly get better? 

(For comparison, Rosen averages 30 more yards passing than Bradford; mayfield averages 140 more yards than Tyrod!; Darnold averages 90 more yards than McCown)

 

so my conclusion. Allen, while having a bad group of receivers, isn’t as good of a passer as backup/ fringe nfl QBs with the same group.  He needs to improve as a passer, which was the knock coming out of college. I hope he does.

 

 

 

[thebandit27]

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

LeOf the top of my head in recent years:

 

last year’s bears: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2017.htm

 

2014 49ers:  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/2016.htm

i can’t believe Kaepernick only had 16 tds and 4 ints throwing to Kerley and Patton!!! What a bum.

 

its also worth pointing out that Allen averages almost 70 yards passing than Anderson/ Barkley.  Those are dime a dozen backups who were brought in the middle of the season.  Did the wrs suddenly get better? 

(For comparison, Rosen averages 30 more yards passing than Bradford; mayfield averages 140 more yards than Tyrod!; Darnold averages 90 more yards than McCown)

 

so my conclusion. Allen, while having a bad group of receivers, isn’t as good of a passer as backup/ fringe nfl QBs with the same group.  He needs to improve as a passer, which was the knock coming out of college. I hope he does.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I expect a rookie from Wyoming to struggle in a timing-based offense more than guys with a half decade or more experience.

 

That's not exactly news.

 

And just for kicks: the 2016 niners also had Torrey Smith, who would be this team's WR1...and Kaep had 5 years in the league at that point 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Yes, I expect a rookie from Wyoming to struggle in a timing-based offense more than guys with a half decade or more experience.

 

That's not exactly news.

 

And just for kicks: the 2016 niners also had Torrey Smith, who would be this team's WR1...and Kaep had 5 years in the league at that point 

Torry Smith was completely washed by then. And you know this.  That was a joke offense and it’s hilarious how people act like CK was some bum.  

 

And thats exactly why why I didn’t want Allen.  We are hoping that a 56% passer in the MWC is going to be better in the nfl than he did in a weak conference.  That’s a huge gamble.  We are also hoping that a guy who has been a bottom 5 OC for his nfl career will lead him.  And we are hoping that a regime that created this awful offense will suddenly get it. 

 

Lots of it’s.   But he is our qb so I hope he gets weapons and we can stop the excuses and just evaluate him.  Happy holidays!

[thebandit27]

33 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Torry Smith was completely washed by then. And you know this.  That was a joke offense and it’s hilarious how people act like CK was some bum.  

 

And thats exactly why why I didn’t want Allen.  We are hoping that a 56% passer in the MWC is going to be better in the nfl than he did in a weak conference.  That’s a huge gamble.  We are also hoping that a guy who has been a bottom 5 OC for his nfl career will lead him.  And we are hoping that a regime that created this awful offense will suddenly get it. 

 

Lots of it’s.   But he is our qb so I hope he gets weapons and we can stop the excuses and just evaluate him.  Happy holidays!

 

Happy holidays to you as well

 

For Smith, he had a career-high 11 TDs in 2015, so he couldn't have been THAT bad 

 

Anyway, I think we can agree that it's unacceptable that Allen is the team's entire offense, and that it has to change if they want to be successful 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[GimmeSomeProcess]

7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Huh? Johnson is averaging 3.6 ypa and they have the lowest ypa as a team.  

 

You are severely underestimating how bad Arizona is.  

 

In terms of talent around them, I’d rank them:

1 - baker

2 - jackson

3 - Darnold (their group kinda sucks too)

tied for 4 - Allen and Rosen

Quick name SF’s starting receivers this week!

Nope it’s the opposite, your over valuing the Bills talent. To say that Arizona’s talent is worst is just blind. How many under drafted receivers and tight ends are starting for Zona? Do the Bills not need to replace 3 to 4 starters on the line? Does there high priced running backs only bounce it to the outside? Give me a break with this crap. I cannot fathom how people pile on Allen hit consistently make execuses for Rosen. Sure he’s made some good throws but has he accounted for there entire offense, nope 

[Norcalbillsfan]

1 hour ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

Nope it’s the opposite, your over valuing the Bills talent. To say that Arizona’s talent is worst is just blind. How many under drafted receivers and tight ends are starting for Zona? Do the Bills not need to replace 3 to 4 starters on the line? Does there high priced running backs only bounce it to the outside? Give me a break with this crap. I cannot fathom how people pile on Allen hit consistently make execuses for Rosen. Sure he’s made some good throws but has he accounted for there entire offense, nope 

The Cardinals have more talent than the bills. Allen is the only bright spot on the bills. Rosen has not been the bright spot on the Cardinals.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

The Cardinals have more talent than the bills. Allen is the only bright spot on the bills. Rosen has not been the bright spot on the Cardinals.

 

Not correct at all where they are down seven offensive lineman with all replacements playing in addition to a few WRs. 

[NewEra]

On 12/26/2018 at 10:29 PM, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Not correct at all where they are down seven offensive lineman with all replacements playing in addition to a few WRs. 

 

 The cardinals OL is all backups.  All of our OL are backups.  It doesn’t matter that some started the season as starters.  The cards have a HoF WR and a very promising player in Kirk.  The Bills #1 wr was cut because he was so bad.  Our #2 WR was beaten out by a guy that was cut and then brought back weeks later.  All the other guys were cut by their teams.  We have by far the worst WRs in football.  

 

It’s a tossup based on which QB you like more.  In this thread, the Rosen fanboys say the cards are worse.  Allen fans say the billls have worse.  

Edited December 29, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan
inappropriate language

[syhuang]

People have their own opinions on whether Cardinals have better o-line or Bills have better o-line, or which team has more starter quality offensive lineman and which team has more backup quality instead, but basically both Allen and Rosen are one of the most pressured QBs in the league. We can save each other time by just saying both team's o-line suck instead of arguing which o-line sucks a little bit more.

 

 

And the following is how quarterbacks perform under pressure. Basically both Allen and Rosen are in the bottom 5.