9-12: Sean McDermott & Shady-Allen Pressers Live

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I know. And several veteran posters here, myself included, before the game gave several clear reasons why that was dumb, and all of them came true. 

 

Some of us thought it was a good decision even with the understood risk of a Peterman meltdown. Now Allen's way is cleared. No one will be calling for him to be benched in favor of Peterman. All the pressure is off. We also got an extended look at Peterman and it turns out he's probably not even long-term backup material. It makes no difference that we lost the game. This year isn't about racking up wins.

[transplantbillsfan]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

These things are usually more subtle than that. 

 

Having been in a few rooms where it was going down, the usual mechanism is that managers and executives tend to feel more comfortable and have a more positive view of people we "resonate" with because they remind us of ourselves or of people we admire.  It happens to everyone unless they're consciously aware and fight it.

 

The bottom line is that Peterman looked better overall in preseason, Allen did not look ready, and McDermott rolled with that viewpoint and didn't look very far under the hood.

 

McDermott didn't look very far under the hood.

 

That nails it.

 

The truth is that Peterman did look better in the preseason in terms of stats.  But he wasn't really making NFL throws and was almost always throwing to his 1st read that he determined pre-snap based on coverages and the passes were no more than 10-15 yards down the field and if they were longer they were to wide open guys on busted coverages, like the TD to O'Leary.

 

And he was STILL consistently throwing at least 1 or 2 blatant interceptions a game even if the D couldn't hold onto the ball.  And they were interceptions caused by him and his poor arm strength or poor accuracy, in the case of the 1st Interception.  And in that 1st game against Carolina our 1st string OL looked at least competent, if not decent.  They just deteriorated in the Browns and Bengals games.

 

Whereas Allen was making NFL throws all over the field.  Yes, he was making mistakes and had inaccurate passes, but he was also doing things you'd expect out of a seasoned vet.  And he always kept his eyes downfield, like on that TD pass in the Browns game.  And he took a friggin beating in the Bengals game.  But the majority of those sacks were on the OL, not him.  But he kept on getting up and kept his poise.  There's no humor intended to this statement: he proved he can take a beating.  But Allen has also proven he can shrug off defenders in the backfield and elude pressure and isn't afraid to throw the ball away or slide to protect himself.

 

 

 

Silly me for thinking McDermott spent his QB evaluation on preseason games watching game film asking themselves "okay, how does this translate to what this player can and can't do in live game action" rather than looking at the results and statistics of games at 3/4ths speed.  That's pretty clearly what other good QB evaluators do as Head Coaches. 

 

I feel like a good evaluator would have seen those consistently almost-intercepted passes still happening in the preseason and would have known the arm strength still isn't there.

 

Or that all his pre-snap diagnoses can be muddied up by simply disguising blitz packages and coverages the way the Ravens did in week 1.

 

Or that he rarely ever went to his 2nd or 3rd read, which is kinda important to evaluate when it comes to real games.

 

Or that Peterman rarely threw the ball more than 15 yards down the field except to wide open guys.

 

 

Maybe McDermott should just defer all QB decisions to Dabol for as long as he's with him.  Again, I'm just happy he autocorrects quickly.

[3rdand12]

8 hours ago, GG said:

So much for protecting the players.   

this was an Excellent statement  from him. And True.

 I applaud it actually.

8 hours ago, Mango said:

 

To this point. I thought it was weird that when asked about the decision he only mentioned Beane, Terry, and Kim. Not Daboll.

 

Why wouldn’t your OC be involved? 

just words.
You and i both know Brian Daboll has a say. I hope sooner than later he gets to pick Coaches and assist McBeane's on types of players to acquire.

 Cuz McBeanes sure cannot build an Offense to save their lives.
 

[Buffalo Ballin]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

By what relevant statistical measure is the Bills defense the "worst in the NFL?"

Blown out. 47 points. We gave up 47 points. You didn't see that? I did. Nearly 50 points. That's the only stat I need to know. Ravens got those points super easy. Walk in the park. No other team on Opening Day gave up those points. Yep, we're THE worst now. Embarrassing.

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Blown out. 47 points. We gave up 47 points. You didn't see that? I did. Nearly 50 points. That's the only stat I need to know. Ravens got those points super easy. Walk in the park. No other team on Opening Day gave up those points. Yep, we're THE worst now. Embarrassing.

Embarrassing, yes. Still, not the worst though. Two other teams gave up more points on opening day. Two teams playing on their home fields to boot. 

[3rdand12]

8 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I take it differently.  To me he is saying he was all in on starting NP.

The quick change from that to JA shows he failed.

He is owning up to the NP starter call and not throwing anyone under the bus.

always respect your posts : )

[Kelly the Dog]

26 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Some of us thought it was a good decision even with the understood risk of a Peterman meltdown. Now Allen's way is cleared. No one will be calling for him to be benched in favor of Peterman. All the pressure is off. We also got an extended look at Peterman and it turns out he's probably not even long-term backup material. It makes no difference that we lost the game. This year isn't about racking up wins.

You don’t play a player who cannot compete in this league. Your veteran players and team will mutiny. I wouldn’t doubt if that is what forced McD’s hand. 

[3rdand12]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Blown out. 47 points. We gave up 47 points. You didn't see that? I did. Nearly 50 points. That's the only stat I need to know. Ravens got those points super easy. Walk in the park. No other team on Opening Day gave up those points. Yep, we're THE worst now. Embarrassing.

why would you feel embarrassed  ? Its a game.
I was proud to say i watched the whole thing. One of the most painful games i have seen in years though. I had to close one eye more than once in the first half !
 

7 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

I really hope they don't put Josh in front of the media after games. Good or bad.

 

The media can be ruthless and, Buffalo media especially, overly negative. If Josh becomes an established starter, then give him media duty. Otherwise, put Shady or Kyle or some other vet on the mic.

well we tried to protect him starting Nate, that failed epically. He is going to do the pressers. Hope he has a good Coach for that part of the game !

[Buffalo Ballin]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Embarrassing, yes. Still, not the worst though. Two other teams gave up more points on opening day. Two teams playing on their home fields to boot. 

Wow. the hell? There were 2 other teams that gave up more than 47 points on last Sunday? No. I'm not talking about "All Time NFL History" stuff here. I'm talking about last Sunday. We're the only ones last Sunday. I'm talking about right now present day 2018 stuff. Worst defense in the NFL.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

10 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

Because everyone in the organization took a hard line against him and his man crush on Petermania.  

That’s a good take man. 

 

That Peterman was McDermott’s choice, and Beane/Dabol said no way, you’re starting Allen. 

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

Josh Allen is in the same spot we've all been in when trying to cross a creek without getting our shoes wet.

 

It makes you so nervous... neurotic even. You tiptoe, you try to balance beam across a log... the thought of stepping into the creek and getting your shoes wet is terrifying.

 

Then your foot slips and you're up to your ankles in water. At that point, you stomp right through the middle of the freaking creek and don't even care how deep it gets.

I love you.

 not in the funny business way though. Great post.

Go Josh Allen ! The rocket ship is staged and ready. Hang on everyone !

[Mat68]

What did they want him so say.  Peterman proved without any doubt he should never play professional quarterback.  I thought he improved over the offseason, and the new offense would actually play to his strengths.  Turns out he has no strengths and I have lousy judgement in terms of making decisions at the qb position.

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Wow. the hell? There were 2 other teams that gave up more than 47 points on last Sunday? No. I'm not talking about "All Time NFL History" stuff here. I'm talking about last Sunday. We're the only ones last Sunday. I'm talking about right now present day 2018 stuff. Worst defense in the NFL.

I’m talking this past opening weekend. On Sunday, New Orleans gave up 48 points AT HOME to Fitz and Tampa Bay. On Monday, Detroit also gave up 48 points AT HOME, too. So, two teams gave up more points than Buffalo on opening day this season. We suck, but we are not the worst as has been asserted. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, K-9 said:

I’m talking this past opening weekend. On Sunday, New Orleans gave up 48 points AT HOME to Fitz and Tampa Bay. On Monday, Detroit also gave up 48 points AT HOME, too. So, two teams gave up more points than Buffalo on opening day this season. We suck, but we are not the worst as has been asserted. 

 

To be fair, TB and the NYJ both scored DT and/or ST TDs in those 48 point totals. 

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

To be fair, TB and the NYJ both scored DT and/or ST TDs in those 48 point totals. 

Be fair all you like. But technically and according to official stats as compiled and maintained by the league, the Bills don’t have the worst defense in the league as has been asserted.

[Mat68]

43 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

McDermott didn't look very far under the hood.

 

That nails it.

 

The truth is that Peterman did look better in the preseason in terms of stats.  But he wasn't really making NFL throws and was almost always throwing to his 1st read that he determined pre-snap based on coverages and the passes were no more than 10-15 yards down the field and if they were longer they were to wide open guys on busted coverages, like the TD to O'Leary.

 

And he was STILL consistently throwing at least 1 or 2 blatant interceptions a game even if the D couldn't hold onto the ball.  And they were interceptions caused by him and his poor arm strength or poor accuracy, in the case of the 1st Interception.  And in that 1st game against Carolina our 1st string OL looked at least competent, if not decent.  They just deteriorated in the Browns and Bengals games.

 

Whereas Allen was making NFL throws all over the field.  Yes, he was making mistakes and had inaccurate passes, but he was also doing things you'd expect out of a seasoned vet.  And he always kept his eyes downfield, like on that TD pass in the Browns game.  And he took a friggin beating in the Bengals game.  But the majority of those sacks were on the OL, not him.  But he kept on getting up and kept his poise.  There's no humor intended to this statement: he proved he can take a beating.  But Allen has also proven he can shrug off defenders in the backfield and elude pressure and isn't afraid to throw the ball away or slide to protect himself.

 

 

 

Silly me for thinking McDermott spent his QB evaluation on preseason games watching game film asking themselves "okay, how does this translate to what this player can and can't do in live game action" rather than looking at the results and statistics of games at 3/4ths speed.  That's pretty clearly what other good QB evaluators do as Head Coaches. 

 

I feel like a good evaluator would have seen those consistently almost-intercepted passes still happening in the preseason and would have known the arm strength still isn't there.

 

Or that all his pre-snap diagnoses can be muddied up by simply disguising blitz packages and coverages the way the Ravens did in week 1.

 

Or that he rarely ever went to his 2nd or 3rd read, which is kinda important to evaluate when it comes to real games.

 

Or that Peterman rarely threw the ball more than 15 yards down the field except to wide open guys.

 

 

Maybe McDermott should just defer all QB decisions to Dabol for as long as he's with him.  Again, I'm just happy he autocorrects quickly.

Taking 4 months to name Peterman the starter only to replace him after 2 quarters looks like one of the worst decisions in the franchise history.  It's a blunder that could put him on the hot seat in Buffalo.  The offense should have spent all the time Peterman got with the first team, running scramble drills with Allen.  The offense would be light years ahead of where it is now.

[WhoTom]

9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

To be fair, TB and the NYJ both scored DT and/or ST TDs in those 48 point totals. 

 

To be fair, one of Baltimore's TDs was a one-yard drive following a Peterman pick.

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

To be fair, one of Baltimore's TDs was a one-yard drive following a Peterman pick.

 

Indeed. Nontheless, varying degrees to defensive suckitude are be argued. 

[Pre1236]

Life as a Bills fan - arguing whether or not they gave up the most points league wide week one.  It's going to be one long year.

[transplantbillsfan]

10 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Taking 4 months to name Peterman the starter only to replace him after 2 quarters looks like one of the worst decisions in the franchise history.  It's a blunder that could put him on the hot seat in Buffalo.  The offense should have spent all the time Peterman got with the first team, running scramble drills with Allen.  The offense would be light years ahead of where it is now.

 

We don't know what or where the offense is now. The offense under Allen hasn't been put on the field yet. We're going to see that Sunday.

 

I have relative confidence our offense is productive Sunday.

[Domdab99]

11 hours ago, boater said:

Judging by McD's presser appearance, I'd say Allen starting was a T Pegula decision. Which I'm OK with if true.

 

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Judging from McDermott's demeanor during the presser, I agree with you on the 'credit'.  I don't think this was a case of "OK, we roll with Peterman, either his preseason improvements will hold in the regular season or we can switch to Josh Allen without people calling to give Peterman a shot if Allen struggles".    That may have been how Daboll viewed it.

 

I think McD genuinely bought into Peterman's improvement at QB from pre-season.  I think he genuinely likes and admires him and viewed him as epitomizing success according to his values - a hard working, faith-driven young man who worked hard and deserved his shot, and didn't deserve to get the hook after only one game. 

 

I think Daboll may have had a come-to-Jesus meeting with McDermott, reinforced by Beane and maybe others, but Man! McDermott didn't handle it gracefully.

 

 

More Buffalo fan-fic.

 

you guys have no idea how any of this went down.

[Mat68]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

We don't know what or where the offense is now. The offense under Allen hasn't been put on the field yet. We're going to see that Sunday.

 

I have relative confidence our offense is productive Sunday.

It not hard to gather.  If Allen had the lion share of practice with the  starting offense, and the offense has been molded to his skill set the offense would be in a better place.  Instead he has gotten a third to half to none of the reps. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

38 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

More Buffalo fan-fic.

you guys have no idea how any of this went down.

 

That would be a usual implication of the words "judging by" or "I think", I believe - that we don't know

 

Just what exactly is it you think we do on TBD, discuss what we heard from our seat in the coaches' meeting or conferencing in to Beane's latest chat with the Pegulas?  We speculate.  We give opinions.  If you prefer, we write fan-fic.  Some more creative, some more plausible.

 

And?

 

4 hours ago, K-9 said:

By what relevant statistical measure is the Bills defense the "worst in the NFL?"

 

Well, we're 3rd worst at PPG &1st downs given up, 2nd worst at TOP allowed, 9th in 3rd downs allowed - which sounds like an argument for maybe not being worst, except that the other culprits vary while we're consistently at the top of the bottom-feeders. 

 

Me, I don't care if we're worst or 3rd worst, the point is - we were hoping our D would be improved from a solid unit last year and help carry the team if the offense struggled.  Doesn't look like happening right now, though maybe they'll fix it.

[Domdab99]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That would be a usual implication of the words "judging by" or "I think", I believe - that we don't know

 

Just what exactly is it you think we do on TBD, discuss what we heard from our seat in the coaches' meeting or conferencing in to Beane's latest chat with the Pegulas?  We speculate.  We give opinions.  If you prefer, we write fan-fic.  Some more creative, some more plausible.

 

And?

 

 

LOL if you don't think there's a difference between "I think Allen should start over Peterman" and making up scenarios out of whole cloth, I don't know what to tell you.

At least tell us what McD is wearing and how it fits supple on his rock hard body, or something. Make it interesting! 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Domdab99

[NewEraBills]

19 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Yep, kind of the "fool me twice" thing with Peterman.

It also seems to me the Bodine/Groy competition has turned out similar.

I really think everyone thought Bodine would win it early but he underwhelmed.

So they name Groy right at the end and he doesn't play well either.

 

As a side note, I bet the last 2 days at OBD have been quiet and tense with the players and coaches all doing some self evaluation.

If so I hope it lights a fire.

 

 

I felt the same thing.

Josh has been "protected" all summer (which I think was the plan).

Sunday will be JA's "then came the dawn" moment.

 

I think he can give a decent showing if the rest of the O gets inspired by his effort.

1

 

 

Man talk about really fooling the coaching staff.  I'd say Peterman and Groy were the worse on the field in Baltimore.  Some say Benjamin, but with him I just chalk his act up to not caring and "dogging it".  Peterman and Groy were just not good at all.  Groy, for a 320lb man, got thrown like a piece of cardboard LOL.  But it wasn't just him, most of the linemen got thrown around, which leads me to their coach.  I don't know what he teaches, bit whatever it is, it's not good.  When he was with Baltimore I saw the same things.  Guys playing high, allowing defenders into their chest and getting driven.  It's ugly.

[ColoradoBills]

15 minutes ago, NewEraBills said:

 

 

Man talk about really fooling the coaching staff.  I'd say Peterman and Groy were the worse on the field in Baltimore.  Some say Benjamin, but with him I just chalk his act up to not caring and "dogging it".  Peterman and Groy were just not good at all.  Groy, for a 320lb man, got thrown like a piece of cardboard LOL.  But it wasn't just him, most of the linemen got thrown around, which leads me to their coach.  I don't know what he teaches, bit whatever it is, it's not good.  When he was with Baltimore I saw the same things.  Guys playing high, allowing defenders into their chest and getting driven.  It's ugly.

 

You know it's just so hard for the average fan to evaluate an OL.

When an OL plays bad it can be caused by so many thing.  Individual play is so important but the OL more than any other group

has to play as a unit.  If any part of that breaks down the whole play is affected.

So is it coaching technique, play calling, blocking schemes, player talent, QB/RB/WR/TE play, unit cohesion, or a combination it's just hard to tell.

 

As to who is the last really bad OL player it seems to change from week to week.  Whack-a-mole.

 

I can say with some certainty that the talent level of the Bills OL is low.

The amount of penalties (which we all know are drive killers for an offense) seems to indicate confusion.

I see no quick fixes but if there is I hope the coaches and players figure it out fast.

 

FWIW to me, nothing is worse than watching an offense play with a truly bad OL.  It ruins everything especially trying to evaluate an OC and

offensive playmakers.

 

[Doc]

48 minutes ago, NewEraBills said:

Man talk about really fooling the coaching staff.  I'd say Peterman and Groy were the worse on the field in Baltimore.  Some say Benjamin, but with him I just chalk his act up to not caring and "dogging it".  Peterman and Groy were just not good at all.  Groy, for a 320lb man, got thrown like a piece of cardboard LOL.  But it wasn't just him, most of the linemen got thrown around, which leads me to their coach.  I don't know what he teaches, bit whatever it is, it's not good.  When he was with Baltimore I saw the same things.  Guys playing high, allowing defenders into their chest and getting driven.  It's ugly.

 

Groy's height (6'5") works against him.  He gets too upright after snapping the ball sometimes and loses leverage. 

[Kelly the Dog]

17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That would be a usual implication of the words "judging by" or "I think", I believe - that we don't know

 

Just what exactly is it you think we do on TBD, discuss what we heard from our seat in the coaches' meeting or conferencing in to Beane's latest chat with the Pegulas?  We speculate.  We give opinions.  If you prefer, we write fan-fic.  Some more creative, some more plausible.

 

And?

 

 

Well, we're 3rd worst at PPG &1st downs given up, 2nd worst at TOP allowed, 9th in 3rd downs allowed - which sounds like an argument for maybe not being worst, except that the other culprits vary while we're consistently at the top of the bottom-feeders. 

 

Me, I don't care if we're worst or 3rd worst, the point is - we were hoping our D would be improved from a solid unit last year and help carry the team if the offense struggled.  Doesn't look like happening right now, though maybe they'll fix it.

Not getting any first downs in the first half gives the Ravens at least two extra series they wouldn't normally get. They definitely would not have had time for the two-minute drive that ended in the touchdown. The field position makes it way easier to use the whole playbook. I'm not making too many excuses for a horrid defensive display but they abhorrent offense is partially responsible for the points, first downs, TOP, etc.

[NewEraBills]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

You know it's just so hard for the average fan to evaluate an OL.

When an OL plays bad it can be caused by so many thing.  Individual play is so important but the OL more than any other group

has to play as a unit.  If any part of that breaks down the whole play is affected.

So is it coaching technique, play calling, blocking schemes, player talent, QB/RB/WR/TE play, unit cohesion, or a combination it's just hard to tell.

 

As to who is the last really bad OL player it seems to change from week to week.  Whack-a-mole.

 

I can say with some certainty that the talent level of the Bills OL is low.

The amount of penalties (which we all know are drive killers for an offense) seems to indicate confusion.

I see no quick fixes but if there is I hope the coaches and players figure it out fast.

 

FWIW to me, nothing is worse than watching an offense play with a truly bad OL.  It ruins everything especially trying to evaluate an OC and

offensive playmakers.

 

 

True, True.  One thing I will say to is that if you go back to the Ravens OL in their first year under Castillo, they were the most penalized in the league.  And I think it was definitely an indicator of confusion there in Baltimore and it's now our burden to carry.  They had talent and still looked bad.  Our situation is compounded by not having high-level talent at the position.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 hours ago, NewEraBills said:

 

 

Man talk about really fooling the coaching staff.  I'd say Peterman and Groy were the worse on the field in Baltimore.  Some say Benjamin, but with him I just chalk his act up to not caring and "dogging it".  Peterman and Groy were just not good at all.  Groy, for a 320lb man, got thrown like a piece of cardboard LOL.  But it wasn't just him, most of the linemen got thrown around, which leads me to their coach.  I don't know what he teaches, bit whatever it is, it's not good.  When he was with Baltimore I saw the same things.  Guys playing high, allowing defenders into their chest and getting driven.  It's ugly.

 

...what the hell happened with this guy?.....thought he was a decent fill-in and swing man last year................he's in his contract year with an opportunity to garner a starting spot on the OL and command some decent money.....guess I missed the memo AGAIN...........

[3rdand12]

20 hours ago, Mat68 said:

What did they want him so say.  Peterman proved without any doubt he should never play professional quarterback.  I thought he improved over the offseason, and the new offense would actually play to his strengths.  Turns out he has no strengths and I have lousy judgement in terms of making decisions at the qb position.

This is my hot take too.     line for line quite nearly : )

20 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Taking 4 months to name Peterman the starter only to replace him after 2 quarters looks like one of the worst decisions in the franchise history.  It's a blunder that could put him on the hot seat in Buffalo.  The offense should have spent all the time Peterman got with the first team, running scramble drills with Allen.  The offense would be light years ahead of where it is now.

I might think they thought Peteman was servicable

 and under the right conditions ? He likely would be !

But lest we forget,

the whole Team Sucked

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

You know it's just so hard for the average fan to evaluate an OL.

When an OL plays bad it can be caused by so many thing.  Individual play is so important but the OL more than any other group

has to play as a unit.  If any part of that breaks down the whole play is affected.

So is it coaching technique, play calling, blocking schemes, player talent, QB/RB/WR/TE play, unit cohesion, or a combination it's just hard to tell.

 

As to who is the last really bad OL player it seems to change from week to week.  Whack-a-mole.

 

I can say with some certainty that the talent level of the Bills OL is low.

The amount of penalties (which we all know are drive killers for an offense) seems to indicate confusion.

I see no quick fixes but if there is I hope the coaches and players figure it out fast.

 

FWIW to me, nothing is worse than watching an offense play with a truly bad OL.  It ruins everything especially trying to evaluate an OC and

offensive playmakers.

 

What you say about the average fan evaluating the OL is true.  You can't just look at who winds up on their a** and make immediate conclusions.

 

Coach's film in slowmo makes it more possible for duffers like myself who can't follow the action at full speed.

 

We are using a lot of bi-directional movement - L guard pulling R while center and R guard slide L - yeah, this stuff is not unique, but it's pretty clear vs the Ravens, the guys in motion were simply not able to move quickly enough to achieve a proper leverage position before the DL was passing them.  This several times resulted in an OLman on his a** with a DLman leaping him into the QB face.  In some cases, guys literally appeared to be tripping each other up.  I saw one involving Groy and Ducasse and another involving DiMarco and Ducasse.  (I'm not sure it's Ducasse that's at fault)  

 

There were several plays where I simply could not tell what the blocking scheme was supposed to be because it was AFU beyond my relatively limited abilities to infer it by pattern-matching.

 

You are also correct that there's a lot of confusion, plays where there's an OLman standing there looking around while his neighbor is trying to block 2 or 3 - either confusion about the assignment or, the wrong call for the D owing to disguise on the Ravens part.

 

Overall, on plays where we tried more straightforward blocking without all the 2-way motion, we appeared to have less confusion and more success, both in pass protection and run blocking.  I would say if our coaches try abandoning their most clever schemes for some more straightforward power grunt-hog OL stuff, we may see immediate improvement.  At least, those were the plays that appeared to be most successful vs the Ravens.

 

I've been watching the Jets-Lions all-22.  So far the Jets blocking appears to be simpler and more straightforward - and more effective.  To be fair though, the Lions D isn't nearly as good as the Ravens seem to be right now.  Really looking forward to Ravens-Cincy tonight, that will tell us a lot.

 

21 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...what the hell happened with this guy?.....thought he was a decent fill-in and swing man last year................he's in his contract year with an opportunity to garner a starting spot on the OL and command some decent money.....guess I missed the memo AGAIN...........

 

Groy didn't play much last year.   Got like 15 snaps in 1 game and 12 in another, both at guard I think.

 

He was a capable center in 2016 - with Aaron Kromer's schemes and flanked by 'Cog and Miller.

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Groy's height (6'5") works against him.  He gets too upright after snapping the ball sometimes and loses leverage. 

You make a great point about pad level and leverage, but it has less to do with height than it does technique. There have been some great taller centers over the years. Our best one ever, Kent Hull, was also 6’5”, for instance. 

[Magox]

Can we just agree that everything sucked this past Sunday?

[3rdand12]

well i was going to bring up Milano Edmunds duo improved over the Cincy game.....

 But in this case ? I think it best to just agree. darnit : (

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, NewEraBills said:

 

True, True.  One thing I will say to is that if you go back to the Ravens OL in their first year under Castillo, they were the most penalized in the league.  And I think it was definitely an indicator of confusion there in Baltimore and it's now our burden to carry.  They had talent and still looked bad.  Our situation is compounded by not having high-level talent at the position.

 

Thanks NEB I did not know that about the Ravens issues under Castillo.  I know about a lot of the negative Castillo talk on the board but it's always tough

to know what is real and just noise.  None of us fans are privy to whether Castillo has been satisfied with the talent of the OL and how well he is

coaching them up.

 

What I mean is has he been pushing for better players or is he saying that what he has is good enough and that he can make them work an a unit.

I'm having my doubts about him only because I don't see anyone on the OL outplaying what you would think their capabilities are talent wise.

3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...what the hell happened with this guy?.....thought he was a decent fill-in and swing man last year................he's in his contract year with an opportunity to garner a starting spot on the OL and command some decent money.....guess I missed the memo AGAIN...........

 

That is a good question Oldtimer and I wonder the same thing.  Groy is in his 5th year and has 12 starts total.  I think once he became a starter

that teams put tape together on a player and learn to push against suspected faults.  I suspect that Dion Dawkins will face the same scrutiny

this year.  One could say it's what a sophomore slump could explain.

[3rdand12]

4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Thanks NEB I did not know that about the Ravens issues under Castillo.  I know about a lot of the negative Castillo talk on the board but it's always tough

to know what is real and just noise.  None of us fans are privy to whether Castillo has been satisfied with the talent of the OL and how well he is

coaching them up.

 

What I mean is has he been pushing for better players or is he saying that what he has is good enough and that he can make them work an a unit.

I'm having my doubts about him only because I don't see anyone on the OL outplaying what you would think their capabilities are talent wise.

Nothing stands out does it.
Bills had the 2 vets next to each other which surely helped Dion out. But now. it's trial by fire.
 

some folks talk about the time it takes to develop a QB.

 But i put a lot of weight into getting an O line settled down for the long term. and that means swing tackle and back ups.

interior from center out is underrated when paying LT and now RT. Its the center who defines the snap.and what happens soon after.
This is were reps count.QB Ctr and the rest work from that cadence and timing
 Hard to get settled when everyone is competing to start 

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What you say about the average fan evaluating the OL is true.  You can't just look at who winds up on their a** and make immediate conclusions.

 

Coach's film in slowmo makes it more possible for duffers like myself who can't follow the action at full speed.

 

We are using a lot of bi-directional movement - L guard pulling R while center and R guard slide L - yeah, this stuff is not unique, but it's pretty clear vs the Ravens, the guys in motion were simply not able to move quickly enough to achieve a proper leverage position before the DL was passing them.  This several times resulted in an OLman on his a** with a DLman leaping him into the QB face.  In some cases, guys literally appeared to be tripping each other up.  I saw one involving Groy and Ducasse and another involving DiMarco and Ducasse.  (I'm not sure it's Ducasse that's at fault)  

 

There were several plays where I simply could not tell what the blocking scheme was supposed to be because it was AFU beyond my relatively limited abilities to infer it by pattern-matching.

 

You are also correct that there's a lot of confusion, plays where there's an OLman standing there looking around while his neighbor is trying to block 2 or 3 - either confusion about the assignment or, the wrong call for the D owing to disguise on the Ravens part.

 

Overall, on plays where we tried more straightforward blocking without all the 2-way motion, we appeared to have less confusion and more success, both in pass protection and run blocking.  I would say if our coaches try abandoning their most clever schemes for some more straightforward power grunt-hog OL stuff, we may see immediate improvement.  At least, those were the plays that appeared to be most successful vs the Ravens.

 

I've been watching the Jets-Lions all-22.  So far the Jets blocking appears to be simpler and more straightforward - and more effective.  To be fair though, the Lions D isn't nearly as good as the Ravens seem to be right now.  Really looking forward to Ravens-Cincy tonight, that will tell us a lot.

 

 

Groy didn't play much last year.   Got like 15 snaps in 1 game and 12 in another, both at guard I think.

 

He was a capable center in 2016 - with Aaron Kromer's schemes and flanked by 'Cog and Miller.

 

I read all your posts about the OL and your opinion on the bolded.  I admit I just don't have enough skill to know one way or the other.

If what you are saying is true then the coaches need to identify it and adjust accordingly.  I have watched all the offensive plays this preseason and

the Ravens game.  The run blocking looks a lot the way you have identified.  A lot of times it seems to work.  The pass blocking is what is confusing

to me because I have seem way to many plays where the Bills OLman has just got flat out beat.

 

I think most semi informed Bills fans know that if this isn't improved it will be a long uninspired season on the offense.

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Nothing stands out does it.
Bills had the 2 vets next to each other which surely helped Dion out. But now. it's trial by fire.
 

some folks talk about the time it takes to develop a QB.

 But i put a lot of weight into getting an O line settled down for the long term. and that means swing tackle and back ups.

interior from center out is underrated when paying LT and now RT. Its the center who defines the snap.and what happens soon after.
This is were reps count.QB Ctr and the rest work from that cadence and timing
 Hard to get settled when everyone is competing to start 

 

I also believe what you said in the bolded.  I say that not because I think so,  it's what I have heard from coaches and QBs in the many decades of

being a fan.  If it's true that the Chargers are going to be missing top rated players affecting the Bills OL and the OL still underperforms...............

I got nothing.

[Buffalo Ballin]

On 9/12/2018 at 7:01 PM, K-9 said:

I’m talking this past opening weekend. On Sunday, New Orleans gave up 48 points AT HOME to Fitz and Tampa Bay. On Monday, Detroit also gave up 48 points AT HOME, too. So, two teams gave up more points than Buffalo on opening day this season. We suck, but we are not the worst as has been asserted. 

My bad. We're the third worst defense in the NFL. Definitely the worst team overall at this point though.