This team looks scary bad

[BuffaloRush]

Just now, Best Player Available said:

It just doesn't work that way.

Explain why?

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

If Allen is complete garbage Beane 100% loses his job.

 

No chance the Bills' ownership lets him draft another QB after picking Peterman and Allen. 

I disagree....If anyone is going to get a 2nd chance, it's Beane.  Remember that Beane/McDermott wields a lot of power at One Bills Drive.  They ended the drought and will be given the right for a second chance.  I think that the Bills could have two bad seasons (4-12 or worse) and they'd still get a 3rd year.  That's how much Terry loves them

[Tcali]

29 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Well at least Peterman has a challenger for worst Bills QB ever, Here are Dan Darraugh's career stats.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/dandarragh/2512467/careerstats

 

 

but darragh is 71--no wonder his stats are similar to peterman

[Bing Bong]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

Beane made the play-offs with a worse roster,  #enoughsaid

McD did with a lot of Whaley guys. McD is better than Rex.. shocker. we just saw what happened when McD had to roll with Beanes' damndest attempt to tank.

Edited September 10, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[Best Player Available]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

Explain why?

the draft capital it took to get Allen is not a one or even two year play and dump. Beane first

wouldn't do it. Pegula's most likely wouldn't let him do it. But if Beane did the both the GM and HC would never have

those job titles in the NFL again. 

Look at what trash Peterman was last year. Drafted by McD and yet started in the season opener. 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Best Player Available

[bearc012]

27 minutes ago, row_33 said:

Bills in cap jail

 

we are in fan hell

 

 

Hell..... spike is in pee wee football hell. 

[Seventeen]

I think that Alabama could've beaten the BIlls today.

[Kirby Jackson]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

It's a joke.  But I do feel that Bills fans will romanticize about former players/coaches/GM's.  I didn't think Whaley was very good as GM but many fans still pine for him.  It's no surprise he's been out of the league for the 2 years since he got the axe.

Whaley was a pretty good GM IMO. He has had some offers. FWIW, he can go back to the Steelers at any point. They think very highly of him. He added talent. Whaley’s mistake was that he didn’t cross all of his “t’s” and dot all of his “I’s.” His biggest mistake as a GM was not having an out in the Dareus contract. There had to be some recourse if he was suspended (again). 

[buffaloboyinATL]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

3 to 4 years? 

 

Things need to move along a little quicker than that...

I honestly meant to type 2-3 years.  I believe that is realistic. Start stocking up next year,  build up experience the following year and then in year 3, begin to fill the void left by the end of the Pats* dynasty.

[SoTier]

33 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

You seem to forget the Bills are in cap jail. Due largely to Dareus contract. 

 

Boo hoo!  Whose fault is that except the current HC and GM who are incompetent in handling personnel matters?   Maybe McDermott and Beane should have considered the dead cap implications of getting rid of Dareus ($13.6 million) before they gave him away to the Jags.  He wasn't a locker room cancer; Frazier and McDermott failed to get the best out of him, although he seems to be flourishing again in the Jags DL rotation under Marrone.   A good HC figures out how to get the best out of the very talented players on his roster, even if they don't necessarily get along well. The Bills also should have considered the cap implications of trading away Taylor ($7.6 million) and Glenn ($9.6 million). 

[jrober38]

8 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

Explain why?

I disagree....If anyone is going to get a 2nd chance, it's Beane.  Remember that Beane/McDermott wields a lot of power at One Bills Drive.  They ended the drought and will be given the right for a second chance.  I think that the Bills could have two bad seasons (4-12 or worse) and they'd still get a 3rd year.  That's how much Terry loves them

 

I don't see any logic here. 

 

We know Peterman is terrible. If Allen is also terrible, there's no argument that can be made suggesting the GM should get a 3rd crack at picking a QB. 

 

That completely defies logic. 

[BuffaloRush]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't see any logic here. 

 

We know Peterman is terrible. If Allen is also terrible, there's no argument that can be made suggesting the GM should get a 3rd crack at picking a QB. 

 

That completely defies logic. 

 

3rd crack?   Peterman was not a Beane pick

[Greatdane21]

 

Look at all the areas where this ream has far below league average talent

offensive line , wide receiver ,tight end, line backer ,pass rushers, quarterback, right corner back

special teams. 

I find it hard to believe any of our. WR ,OL and Lb other than Edmunds is on this team next year

plus all new DE s 

[greeneblitz]

I think today went GREAT as long as it leads to Allen starting from here on out, we don't have the talent to compete for the playoffs, we need Josh Allen to go into 2019 with a full seasons experience under his belt, nearly every single rookie QB ever is bad in their rookie year and start to blossom in year 2, just when we have 70 million in cap space and a full draft to build around him.

[BuffaloRush]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Boo hoo!  Whose fault is that except the current HC and GM who are incompetent in handling personnel matters?   Maybe McDermott and Beane should have considered the dead cap implications of getting rid of Dareus ($13.6 million) before they gave him away to the Jags.  He wasn't a locker room cancer; Frazier and McDermott failed to get the best out of him, although he seems to be flourishing again in the Jags DL rotation under Marrone.   A good HC figures out how to get the best out of the very talented players on his roster, even if they don't necessarily get along well. The Bills also should have considered the cap implications of trading away Taylor ($7.6 million) and Glenn ($9.6 million). 

 

He's not really flourishing.  He's part of a DL rotation.  It's not like he's an All-Pro.  great hyperbole though

[The Frankish Reich]

31 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

are we that much better with Star and the dead money as opposed to dareus and someone else on the roster?

No. We are not better off. And that's the absurdity of the McBeane offseason. You spend the first full season and the beginning of the offseason shedding the team of Whaley's mistakes (Watkins, Dareus, Glenn) and refusing to recommit big bucks to certain solid contributors (Tyrod, Richie). And then you weirdly overpay for a lesser Dareus, so that when you add up the Dareus dead cap hit ($14 million this year) and the roster cap hit for Star ($6.7 million), you wind up using over $20 million of cap space for a subpar performer at DT.  You really can't screw it up worse than that. Dumping Dareus was defensible in isolation (and I defended it). The moves in combination make zero sense. It obviously would've been better to just keep Dareus and his $10 million active roster cap hit for this year.  Another way of looking at it: It's as if Beane thought Wyatt Teller (acquired with the pick from Jax for Dareus) was worthy of using up $10 million of cap space. He better be good ....

[greeneblitz]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't see any logic here. 

 

We know Peterman is terrible. If Allen is also terrible, there's no argument that can be made suggesting the GM should get a 3rd crack at picking a QB. 

 

That completely defies logic. 

McDermott picked Peterman, not Bean.

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

3rd crack?   Peterman was not a Beane pick

 

Sorry - I associate it as his pick even though it was McDermott's. 

 

Whaley was a lame duck GM who had next to nothing to do with the 2017 draft. It was McDermott's show and I believe that's still the case. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by jrober38

[dayman]

Acquire the #1 pick and trade it for as much as we can possibly get then hit all those picks and use the cap that is freed up to nail several huge FAs. That is the only recipe for short term success. 

[BuffaloBill]

5 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Boo hoo!  Whose fault is that except the current HC and GM who are incompetent in handling personnel matters?   Maybe McDermott and Beane should have considered the dead cap implications of getting rid of Dareus ($13.6 million) before they gave him away to the Jags.  He wasn't a locker room cancer; Frazier and McDermott failed to get the best out of him, although he seems to be flourishing again in the Jags DL rotation under Marrone.   A good HC figures out how to get the best out of the very talented players on his roster, even if they don't necessarily get along well. The Bills also should have considered the cap implications of trading away Taylor ($7.6 million) and Glenn ($9.6 million). 

 

 

So so you want all of them back?  Live in perennial .500 football?  Go ahead. 

[Batman1876]

5 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Boo hoo!  Whose fault is that except the current HC and GM who are incompetent in handling personnel matters?   Maybe McDermott and Beane should have considered the dead cap implications of getting rid of Dareus ($13.6 million) before they gave him away to the Jags.  He wasn't a locker room cancer; Frazier and McDermott failed to get the best out of him, although he seems to be flourishing again in the Jags DL rotation under Marrone.   A good HC figures out how to get the best out of the very talented players on his roster, even if they don't necessarily get along well. The Bills also should have considered the cap implications of trading away Taylor ($7.6 million) and Glenn ($9.6 million). 

Keeping those 3 would have cost 25 mil more than their dead cap hit. I don’t get why people talk about star as a big signing, he was a discount veteran, that’s what he has played like. Look at Beane’s situation and the resources he had. To address it and then the bad roster makes a lot more sense. 1 draft and 25 mil in cap space is not enough to rebuild a team. If we kept Tyrod, Darius and Glenn then we would have had about 15 mil to sign our rookies and free agents. 

[BuffaloBill]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Right. 

 

Those guys were the reason they were .500.

 

What a lazy and awful retort.

 

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Right. 

 

Those guys were the reason they were .500.

 

What a lazy and awful retort.

 

 

So so what is your brilliant response?  The point was simply that the guy was lamenting the loss of players who hardly made the Bills world class. Dareus has hardly lived up to his potential and he certainly played under his big contract. Glenn was coming off injury. 

 

The Bills sucked today. So there is hysteria aplenty. 

 

 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

They even look worse than Ryan's teams, and that's really a bad omen.

[Clyde Smith]

At least the next few games are looking easier due to injuries

[The Frankish Reich]

6 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

Keeping those 3 would have cost 25 mil more than their dead cap hit. I don’t get why people talk about star as a big signing, he was a discount veteran, that’s what he has played like. Look at Beane’s situation and the resources he had. To address it and then the bad roster makes a lot more sense. 1 draft and 25 mil in cap space is not enough to rebuild a team. If we kept Tyrod, Darius and Glenn then we would have had about 15 mil to sign our rookies and free agents. 

No. Let's set aside the others and focus on Dareus vs. Star.

Dareus: 2018 cash payout = $10.175 million

Star 2018 cash = $17.1 million (including a huge signing bonus)

And then there's the related dead cap issue that doesn't of course count in actually how much money the Pegulas have to pay out, but does impinge on Beane's ability to build an otherwise competitive roster this year.

So again, it's as if Beane valued the ability to draft Wyatt Teller at $7 million this year. Or that he valued getting Dareus out of the locker room at $7 million. Or some other weird theory like that, because although I was frustrated as hell with Dareus' play and off the field issues, he's clearly still a better - and, paradoxically, from the Bills perspective a CHEAPER - player than Star. It's a real headscratcher to say the least.

[Rocbillsfan1]

0-16 here we come. The Buffalo Browns.

[SoTier]

32 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

None of this bothers me as long as Allen plays this year and shows signs of being a real honest to goodness franchise QB. If that happens, I am confident we will continue to improve and be comepetetive in the next 3-4 years. 

 

If Allen doesn’t play or does not flash the ability I believe he has... we are in trouble...

 

How is Allen supposed to show "signs of being a real honest to goodness franchise QB" when he's playing behind a crap-arsed OL and throwing to slow, stone-handed receivers????   McDermott and Beane have practically guaranteed that Allen is going to suck this season -- and probably into the future because I doubt that the Bills will be able to fix both problems, not with all the other holes that McDermott and Beane have created.

 

13 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

He's not really flourishing.  He's part of a DL rotation.  It's not like he's an All-Pro.  great hyperbole though

 

He stopped a Giants' drive by sacking Eli and forcing a 4th down when the Giants seemed to be building some momentum on offense.  How many sacks did Star have today?

 

9 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

So so you want all of them back?  Live in perennial .500 football?  Go ahead. 

 

Damn right.  Beats the crap out of perennial .125 - .1875 football.   Dareus > Star.  Taylor > Peterman.   Glenn > Dawkins.   Dawkins could have then been moved to RT, giving the Bills a much better OL than they have now.

[Batman1876]

11 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

No. Let's set aside the others and focus on Dareus vs. Star.

Dareus: 2018 cash payout = $10.175 million

Star 2018 cash = $17.1 million (including a huge signing bonus)

And then there's the related dead cap issue that doesn't of course count in actually how much money the Pegulas have to pay out, but does impinge on Beane's ability to build an otherwise competitive roster this year.

So again, it's as if Beane valued the ability to draft Wyatt Teller at $7 million this year. Or that he valued getting Dareus out of the locker room at $7 million. Or some other weird theory like that, because although I was frustrated as hell with Dareus' play and off the field issues, he's clearly still a better - and, paradoxically, from the Bills perspective a CHEAPER - player than Star. It's a real headscratcher to say the least.

You hit it on the head, the cap savings, the draft pick and getting rid of a player underperforming g his contract. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

7 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

How is Allen supposed to show "signs of being a real honest to goodness franchise QB" when he's playing behind a crap-arsed OL and throwing to slow, stone-handed receivers????   McDermott and Beane have practically guaranteed that Allen is going to suck this season -- and probably into the future because I doubt that the Bills will be able to fix both problems, not with all the other holes that McDermott and Beane have created.

To me, when he shows good mobility in the pocket, the ability to keep his eyes downfield and go through his progressions and make a somewhat accurate throw, I am happy.  If it happens to bounce off the receivers chest or slip through his hands, that’s  on the WR not the QB. We will be able to tell if he is progressing, in spite of the lack of talent around him.

 

i also believe a franchise QB elevates the play of the team around them, so hopefully we see some of that too.

Edited September 10, 2018 by buffaloboyinATL

[Batman1876]

6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

How is Allen supposed to show "signs of being a real honest to goodness franchise QB" when he's playing behind a crap-arsed OL and throwing to slow, stone-handed receivers????   McDermott and Beane have practically guaranteed that Allen is going to suck this season -- and probably into the future because I doubt that the Bills will be able to fix both problems, not with all the other holes that McDermott and Beane have created.

 

 

He stopped a Giants' drive by sacking Eli and forcing a 4th down when the Giants seemed to be building some momentum on offense.  How many sacks did Star have today?

 

 

Damn right.  Beats the crap out of perennial .125 - .1875 football.   Dareus > Star.  Taylor > Peterman.   Glenn > Dawkins.   Dawkins could have then been moved to RT, giving the Bills a much better OL than they have now.

So you’d rather have those guys than Edmunds? 

[RochesterRob]

  Random thoughts.  Dareus contract hurts but we should still see a bright spot or two today but we did not see any other than respectable (not great) punts.  As far as Watkins goes we were not going to be able to resign him given our cap at that point in time and his likely demands.  OL to this point is so bad Shady will go to waste unless Allen comes on quick and does the pass to set up the run.  Peterman can't loosen the defense.  The Ravens most likely are that good and until game time I did not realize how much they bolstered their receiving corps.  We will trend up eventually but the reality is we will see at a minimum of 4 playoff teams and perhaps more along with a couple that will just miss the playoffs.  Just not going to be our year unless something changes.  Went outside to mow lawn to blow off steam during the second and early third quarters and will have to hope the lawn keeps growing for a while by the way things look.  I am old enough now that I don't want to plow snow to blow off steam when late season gets here so I need to get some projects on the drawing board for after Thanksgiving if the trend holds.

Edited September 10, 2018 by RochesterRob

[SoTier]

6 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

So you’d rather have those guys than Edmunds? 

 

Edmunds hasn't proven squat yet, but a good GM can find good and even great players outside of the first round.  Maybe the Bills need better scouts.  In fact, I'd say, that they definitely need better scouts.

[Batman1876]

22 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Edmunds hasn't proven squat yet, but a good GM can find good and even great players outside of the first round.  Maybe the Bills need better scouts.  In fact, I'd say, that they definitely need better scouts.

What makes you think their scouts are bad? Edmunds looks to be a very promising player, if take him over 3 players who would have taken up about 30% of the cap. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Batman1876

[SoTier]

4 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

What makes you think their scouts are bad? 

 

Teams don't decide to obtain players without input from their scouting departments -- or they probably shouldn't. 

 

Player evaluation, both for college players and veterans, depends upon good scouting, and the Bills haven't been very so far that good with McDermott and Beane calling personnel shots.  They hit on White and probably on Dawkins, but Jones looks like a bust in the making.  The rest of the 2017 draft class hasn't shown much.  It's really too early to  judge the 2018 draft class but the 2018 FA signees are almost all terrible.

 

Under Whaley, the Bills continually found success with bargain FA signings and trades as well as with draft picks outside the first round, which says that the Bills had a pretty good scouting department at the time.

[Chuck Wagon]

Realistically the only question I have on this team:

 

Are we this bad on purpose, or is McBeane that bad at their jobs?

 

 

[SoTier]

No team would deliberately look this bad this early in the season ... or any time in the season. 

[Batman1876]

7 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Teams don't decide to obtain players without input from their scouting departments -- or they probably shouldn't. 

 

Player evaluation, both for college players and veterans, depends upon good scouting, and the Bills haven't been very so far that good with McDermott and Beane calling personnel shots.  They hit on White and probably on Dawkins, but Jones looks like a bust in the making.  The rest of the 2017 draft class hasn't shown much.  It's really too early to  judge the 2018 draft class but the 2018 FA signees are almost all terrible.

 

Under Whaley, the Bills continually found success with bargain FA signings and trades as well as with draft picks outside the first round, which says that the Bills had a pretty good scouting department at the time.

Tre, Dion and Milano all look to be good picks. Jones is a question mark, and peterman and Tanner were misses. That’s not a bad draft. You are right that the pro scouts look dubious, but it also seems like they were trying to find hidden gems in the discount bin. 

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRush said:

It's a joke.  But I do feel that Bills fans will romanticize about former players/coaches/GM's.  I didn't think Whaley was very good as GM but many fans still pine for him.  It's no surprise he's been out of the league for the 2 years since he got the axe.

 

Need to give some clues it was a joke for it was not funny and just sounded stupid.

[Jauronimo]

At least it can't get any worse than Tyrod and last year, amirite?

[Dr. Fong]

Without a doubt. Nathan Peterman is the worst starting QB in Bills history.

[Freddie's Dead]

I'm gonna throw a crazy idea out there.  Beane seems to be a good drafter.  Whaley is a witch at pro personnel.  Bring back Whaley as the pro personnel guy.  MADE YOU LOOK!