Who will be the Starting Center ?

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

That is right

 

People are so quick to downgrade Groy because he did not start over Wood....

 

Wood was a pro bowler...team leader....and was getting the bigger check.  It is not that hard to figure out.

 

What I AM trying to figure out is why Groy is having to work so hard trying to secure the spot now.......I dont think that just because you can play multiple spots on a line that means you should be playing none of them.....the best 5 should play.

 

Probably Bodine has been starting the past 4 seasons, half the time for a playoff team, and they are both paid the same.  I don't think it's a bad thing that Groy is having to compete for the spot. 

[Luxy312]

6 hours ago, BILLriant said:

I think groy is a better player...but he is so valuable to the 53 man roster because he can backup all 3 interior position. I believe this is why he wasn't given a shot at RG last year. Another scenario is If John miller and ducasse don't improve I can see bodine at center and groy at guard

 

 

This nails my sentiments exactly.  I think Groy's flexibility allows them to use him at a number of spots, depending on what happens at other positions.

[eball]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

The problem with this thinking is the best 5 should play......no matter what.

 

Not really.  For an OL, the best five that play the best as a group should play.  Subtle distinction.  That's why you hear so much about building chemistry on the OL.

[John from Riverside]

17 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Not really.  For an OL, the best five that play the best as a group should play.  Subtle distinction.  That's why you hear so much about building chemistry on the OL.

OK....but even if you followed that philosophy......

 

Should Groy really ride the pine because he is a great backup at other positions but is the best Center we have?

 

If anything....you would think that the fact he can play multiple positions would be a reason to get him ON the field......because he he is versitle that should help with OL chemistry.

[blacklabel]

We know they really value Groy's versatility and they can still utilize that even if he out-plays Bodine and wins the job at center. If one of the OG's gets hurt, Groy slides into either spot and Bodine comes in at center. This way they're still able to use Groy's versatility and keep themselves from having to dress an additional backup OL for games. 

 

I'm with everyone else that's mentioned that they hope Wyatt Teller turns into a late-round steal but if I had to guess right now, I'd bet that he finds himself on the inactive list for most of, if not the entire season. Of course, that's only if the injury bug doesn't decimate the OL. I think the starting 5 will be, Dawkins-Ducasse-Groy-Miller-Mills with Bodine the backup C (and Groy still the backup OG who would shift right or left in case of an injury) and probably Marshall Newhouse as the backup swing tackle.

 

Saw someone mention Andy Levitre and it reminded me of how the old BBMB lost their marbles when the Bills didn't re-sign him. His first year in ATL, he was rough, he's since gotten a lot better but one thing some people forget about ol' Chan Gailey and his Island of Misfit Offensive Players is that one thing Ryan Fitzpatrick does really well is unload the ball quickly. And Gailey ran a west-coast style offense with a lot of short drops and short routes. Fitz getting rid of it so quickly really made that OL in front of him look better than they really were. This is why a team like the Patriots gets away with having a bunch of late-round or undrafted guys starting on their OL. Brady can get rid of it in a snap. Well, there was the 2014 & 2015 seasons (I think?) where NE's OL was allowing Timmy to get hit constantly, which prompted old Bellychecks to call up Dante Scarnecchia who had retired after the 2013 season. Either way, a QB that can get rid of it quick can mask a shaky OL. 

[eball]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

OK....but even if you followed that philosophy......

 

Should Groy really ride the pine because he is a great backup at other positions but is the best Center we have?

 

If anything....you would think that the fact he can play multiple positions would be a reason to get him ON the field......because he he is versitle that should help with OL chemistry.

 

If Groy is your top backup at G and you start him at C, who do you play at G when that guy goes down?  If you move Groy you weaken two spots instead of one.

 

I think it comes down to whether there is a huge difference between Groy and Bodine at C.  If they're close you start Bodine and keep Groy to fill in.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, eball said:

 

If Groy is your top backup at G and you start him at C, who do you play at G when that guy goes down?  If you move Groy you weaken two spots instead of one.

 

I think it comes down to whether there is a huge difference between Groy and Bodine at C.  If they're close you start Bodine and keep Groy to fill in.

Or you continue to get Groy playing experience and if he needs to move to OG you just slide him over one?

 

I just dont understand the concept of having a better player sitting on the bench because he is good at other positions?   We are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

[eball]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Or you continue to get Groy playing experience and if he needs to move to OG you just slide him over one?

 

I just dont understand the concept of having a better player sitting on the bench because he is good at other positions?   We are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

That's not what I'm saying.  If Groy and Bodine are close (i.e., Groy is not "significantly" better) then it makes sense for Groy to be your backup since he can fill in at multiple spots.

[blacklabel]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

OK....but even if you followed that philosophy......

 

Should Groy really ride the pine because he is a great backup at other positions but is the best Center we have?

 

If anything....you would think that the fact he can play multiple positions would be a reason to get him ON the field......because he he is versitle that should help with OL chemistry.

 

That's something I always found kinda baffling... keeping a guy on the bench because of his "positional versatility" (which allows them to dress one or two less OL than normal and use those slots somewhere else) even when he's a better option than the guy starting. That's why I think if Groy edges Bodine for the starting center job, they can still use him as a backup at guard in case of injury, just slide him right or left and have Bodine take over at C. 

 

Who remembers 2014 when Marrone insisted on starting Cyril Richardson over Kraig Urbik because he felt it was more important for Urbik to serve as the backup OL who could cover either guard spot? That was a debacle, week after week watching Richardson getting his lunch eaten, sometimes not even getting a hand on his guy, and Kyle Orton dropping to the turf like a sack of potatoes before a defender could hit him. It was like halfway through the season before Marrone finally started Urbik over Richardson... and if anyone is wondering (and I know you're all dying to know) Richardson was cut and then on the practice squad for 2015, and then cut completely in 2016. Chicago picked him up but he didn't make it past the practice squad. Funny how things sometimes work out like that. Richardson was an All-American at Baylor and many draft analysts felt he was one of the better OG options in the 2014 draft. To me, the kid just looked too slow to hang in the NFL. Beyond that, I had heard he had a lot of difficulty with the mental side of the game once he got to the NFL. 

8 minutes ago, eball said:

 

If Groy is your top backup at G and you start him at C, who do you play at G when that guy goes down?  If you move Groy you weaken two spots instead of one.

 

I think it comes down to whether there is a huge difference between Groy and Bodine at C.  If they're close you start Bodine and keep Groy to fill in.

 

If they roll with Groy at C, they'll dress Bodine as the backup and if either the RG or LG goes down with an injury, Groy will slide over whichever way and Bodine will take over at center. Still getting Groy's positional versatility while not having to dress an extra OL.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, blacklabel said:

 

That's something I always found kinda baffling... keeping a guy on the bench because of his "positional versatility" (which allows them to dress one or two less OL than normal and use those slots somewhere else) even when he's a better option than the guy starting. That's why I think if Groy edges Bodine for the starting center job, they can still use him as a backup at guard in case of injury, just slide him right or left and have Bodine take over at C. 

 

Who remembers 2014 when Marrone insisted on starting Cyril Richardson over Kraig Urbik because he felt it was more important for Urbik to serve as the backup OL who could cover either guard spot? That was a debacle, week after week watching Richardson getting his lunch eaten, sometimes not even getting a hand on his guy, and Kyle Orton dropping to the turf like a sack of potatoes before a defender could hit him. It was like halfway through the season before Marrone finally started Urbik over Richardson... and if anyone is wondering (and I know you're all dying to know) Richardson was cut and then on the practice squad for 2015, and then cut completely in 2016. Chicago picked him up but he didn't make it past the practice squad. Funny how things sometimes work out like that. Richardson was an All-American at Baylor and many draft analysts felt he was one of the better OG options in the 2014 draft. To me, the kid just looked too slow to hang in the NFL. Beyond that, I had heard he had a lot of difficulty with the mental side of the game once he got to the NFL. 

I do understand what Eball is saying...he is saying if the play of Groy and Bodine are close......and Bodine cannot play other positions....then Groy is the relief pitcher.

 

I personally dont think the play of the two is close.....but I understand the concept.

[Doc]

You play the best 5 OL period.  You don't play guys based on "what if someone at another position gets hurt." 

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, eball said:

 

If Groy is your top backup at G and you start him at C, who do you play at G when that guy goes down?  If you move Groy you weaken two spots instead of one.

 

I think it comes down to whether there is a huge difference between Groy and Bodine at C.  If they're close you start Bodine and keep Groy to fill in.

 

I am playing the best center at center. Whether I think the difference is big or not. I am not building my offensive line based on what might happen if there is an injury. 

[eball]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am playing the best center at center. Whether I think the difference is big or not. I am not building my offensive line based on what might happen if there is an injury. 

 

I hear you; that's why I qualified my statement.  If the staff thinks both guys can do a good job you start Bodine.  As for injuries -- they always happen and not planning for them is a mistake IMO.

[Chandler#81]

Of course it will be the guy who shows best. It’s what competition is all about. I’m sure both will make the final roster, so starting at Baltimore doesn’t necessarily end the competition.

[WMDman]

gonna go with groy

[Aussie Joe]

Groy for mine....

 

He is off contract end of this year and has the opportunity to make the position his own for the next few years and earn himself a lot more dollars in the process...

 

Still thinking that they need to find another starting OL piece before the season starts... hope someone decent shakes out somewhere...

[billsredneck1]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

That's not what I'm saying.  If Groy and Bodine are close (i.e., Groy is not "significantly" better) then it makes sense for Groy to be your backup since he can fill in at multiple spots.

i think bodine will get the nod due to experience with a.j. i think a.j. gets the nod over nate simply due to the money and possible trade bait. that being said, other than miller, groy is the best guard we have so....dawkins / miller / bodine / groy and hopefully someone not named mills.

[Cripple Creek]

9 hours ago, BILLriant said:

I think groy is a better player...but he is so valuable to the 53 man roster because he can backup all 3 interior position. I believe this is why he wasn't given a shot at RG last year. Another scenario is If John miller and ducasse don't improve I can see bodine at center and groy at guard

 

That would mean keeping the better player on the bench “just because.” Coaches don’t typically do things like that.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

I hear you; that's why I qualified my statement.  If the staff thinks both guys can do a good job you start Bodine.  As for injuries -- they always happen and not planning for them is a mistake IMO.

 

...and if Groy continues to show his versatility, you may want to think about extending him before he hits 2019 market as UFA...think his current deal has been very reasonable.....

 

2 year, $5,000,000 contract with the Buffalo Bills, including $3,500,000 guaranteed

[MJS]

8 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

I think it's going to be Bodine, McDermott had every opportunity to play Groy last year at G because Vlad and Miller were not getting it done and he never even got a whiff of a starting job.    IDK what McDermott has against Groy I think he's the better center out of him and Bodine.  But my money is on the guy they got.   

 

Maybe he left that decision to the OC and line coach, for the most part. Also, there is scheme to consider.

[Pirate Angel]

13 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

That would mean keeping the better player on the bench “just because.” Coaches don’t typically do things like that.

They don't unless of course they believe that the team overall is better with the additional player at another needed position or special teams ability that could not have been added with groy starting because they would have to carry additional lineman.

[Cripple Creek]

10 minutes ago, BILLriant said:

They don't unless of course they believe that the team overall is better with the additional player at another needed position or special teams ability that could not have been added with groy starting because they would have to carry additional lineman.

So, bench is better than playing? Makes no sense to me. You have a need you slide him over.

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

You play your best lineup.  If Groy wins the job he starts, no matter if he is a the more versatile backup.  Bodine was brought it to push Groy, and maybe Bodine starts and Groy gets a Guard spot? 

 

Last year was a bit curious as most fans thought Vlad DuCasse was bad but Groy never got a shot at replacing him.  With a new OL coach and new scheme maybe John Miller can reclaim the RG spot and get his career going again.

 

The LG spot is a bigger worry.  RI will be tough to replace. 

 

No matter how I look at this the interior 3 is unproven and with questionable talent. 

The O line Coach still the Castillo in the room. Daboll is the New up and coming new O Coordinator.
 

I questioned Ducasse over Groy many a game.especially early on. Surprised they were not working hard to get Groy some reps.
But maybe as mentioned above he is more valuable as a versatile backup ?
I do want to see him succeed. He was better than Wood at Ctr.
But do not be surprised if Bodine is the starter. 
 Bob i might suggest the Whole Line is unproven as a group and as individuals. One good season doth not make Dawkins a solid long term LT.
 

Hope remains though

2 hours ago, Doc said:

You play the best 5 OL period.  You don't play guys based on "what if someone at another position gets hurt." 

I suggest McD thinks otherwise. He wants the best depth.

 It's not a bad idea really, as seasons come and go based upon injuries and how teams can fit the dropoff in talent

[Fadingpain]

I would say Groy, but this is a story that will play out throughout training camp and the preseason.

 

I think we'll have a much better feel for how the OL will look then.

 

 

[Punching Bag]

It is strange they matched contract on Groy and then used him barely last year.

Unlike the backup QB who is often one of the most popular players the backup center does not get such laudes and I expect his agent will be actively making contacts for next year intending on getting him a position where he can demonstrate his skills.

[Doc]

37 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

It is strange they matched contract on Groy and then used him barely last year.

Unlike the backup QB who is often one of the most popular players the backup center does not get such laudes and I expect his agent will be actively making contacts for next year intending on getting him a position where he can demonstrate his skills.

 

Maybe he's not as adept at zone blocking?

[Bob in STL]

On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 1:02 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Who is this new OL coach of whom you speak?

 

 

My bad, Castillo is still the OL coach.   I meant to say new Offensive Coordinator who is bring in a new system.   This could help John Miller re-gain a spot over Ducasse. 

[T master]

My vote is for Groy he did a more than admirable job when he took over for E. Wood when he went down to injury a couple years back & he is a bit bigger than Bodine which i think the O line needs a big man in the center of the line .

 

Plus he is the under dog type has earned every thing he has ever gotten through hard work & if that isn't a Bills player i don't know what is !! 

 

If he doesn't play at that position it wouldn't surprise me if he is just a back up again that he would want to leave so he could play rather than sit the bench just incase , i think he would be a great add to the O line because he has been here for a while & others on the line have played along side him & continuity is a huge part of a good O lIne ...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

 

My bad, Castillo is still the OL coach.   I meant to say new Offensive Coordinator who is bring in a new system.   This could help John Miller re-gain a spot over Ducasse. 

 

Yeah, I don't know what to expect. 

 

Baltimore's OL seemed better for Castillo's departure

 

I suppose in theory it's possible that it was Dennison's schemes, not Castillo's, that caused the huge fall-off in rush yards per attempt last year (not just for Shady, but for TT).

 

Guess we'll find out

 

 

[billsfan89]

I think Groy takes it unless they kick Groy over to LG.