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TheTruthHurts

Has a 1st or 2nd round QB you disliked been successful?

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6 hours ago, cage said:

 

Good original name for him!  But, you studied film on Brady before he was drafted??

Nope. He’s just a pigdick 

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Jake Locker. Thought he’d be fantastic. He didn’t totally bust, but he wasn’t anything great - and the realities of the game did not jibe with his Christian values so he walked away early. 

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Posted (edited)

I didn't think Alex Smith would really be any good. It took a while but clearly he's a very solid quarterback. Having a different OC for his first seven seasons (as well as multiple different HC's) certainly hindered his development but once he was put into a system that played to his strengths he was finally able to reach his potential. 

 

Designing schemes and game plans based around what your players naturally do well has always been my answer on "how to succeed" when it comes to developing players. It's not rocket science. You identify what the guy does well and draw up plays that utilize those skills. In the meantime, you work with him on areas of weakness while still sharpening his skills that he already does well. 

 

You don't pull a Rex Ryan and come in, assess your team which is composed of players best suited for a straightforward/see ball-get ball 4-3 style of defense and say, "Alrighty fellas, we're gonna dig up my dad's old playbook from the mid-80's and run that sh*t! Sweet, right? I mean, it's been 30 some years since my old man came up with this stuff so obviously there's just NO WAY anyone has had the time to figure it out! And I know you're all used to simple calls and straightforward assignments but here's what's up now, each one of you can have up to 416 different assignments based on what the offense is showing you! To help you remember those assignments I've devised a foolproof system of checks so you'll know what to do when you hear the check. If you hear 'Barf Nugget' that means you drop into coverage. If you hear 'Sloppy Joe Slapped My Wife' then you'll know to rush the passer. If you hear 'Sloppy Joe Slapped My Wife With A Barf Nugget' then you know that you'll be simultaneously covering the tight end and the running back coming to the flats as well as rushing the passer and dropping into a zone. This is genius, I'm tellin' ya! And to make sure this system runs as perfectly as it can, I've acquired a secret weapon. This secret weapon is responsible for some historic defenses! It's mah brudder Rob!! Oh and by historic, I meant historically bad!"

 

OK so I got a little carried away but you get it. Don't try to fit round pegs into square holes.

Edited by blacklabel

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8 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Can you name a QB drafted in the 1st or 2nd round you disliked on film but turned out good? 

Derailed by injury (at least temporarily), but for me Bridgewater.

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Deshaun Watson - I read that QBs that throw under 55 mph can't succeed. When he threw 49 he came off my proverbial board.

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Derek Carr for me too. It wasn't that I disliked him. I had him graded pretty much where I had Rudolph this year right on that 1st / 2nd round borderline. If he could play at his 2016 level for most of his career I will have been wrong on him because that was top 10 QB play. His 2017 tape however.... 

 

Bortles is the one I have liked more than most that hasn't quite hit the level I thought. He is still a serviceable starter and played a Championship game last year, but in hindsight I had Bortles and Carr the wrong was round but was dead on with Teddy and Manziel that year. 

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10 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

EJ. 

 

Best hard count in the game.

You jest but the number of people that said he would be out of the league in 4 years are wrong so I would consider that a success.

 

Granted he's not successful on the field but still getting a decent paycheck from the raiders.

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10 hours ago, Augie said:

 

That was the first name that came to my mind. I just saw a few games in college, and didn’t think much of him. Not that he’s GREAT, but he’s much better than I thought. 

 

I thought he was the classic great college/horrible pro QB.  Truth be told, he looked pretty damn good when he was starting last year.  And to think I was afraid the Bills were going to draft him.  But you're right; too small of a sample size to know anything for sure.

 

1 hour ago, Rob's House said:

Deshaun Watson - I read that QBs that throw under 55 mph can't succeed. When he threw 49 he came off my proverbial board.

 

I already didn't want him, but that arm speed bit was the icing on the cake.  It's nice to see some of these tried & true rules being proven wrong, what with us having a sub-57% QB.

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11 hours ago, MakeBuffaloGreatAgain said:

Alex Smith and Cam Newton. I thought they were products of gimmicky offenses that used a 1 read system and easy throws. I didn’t think either would ever be competitive in the NFL. 

 

Alex Smith is a good example.  I've been impressed by how he's developed.  Still not sure he's what the Redskins think he is though.

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7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Still not sure he's what the Redskins think he is though.

 

I think the Redskins got an older Kirk Cousins.  If that is what they wanted, they got it.

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11 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I think the Redskins got an older Kirk Cousins.  If that is what they wanted, they got it.

 

I could be wrong.  I think Kirk was far more developed at a younger point in his career.  Basically, the first year he got significant playing time (5 starts, 3rd season) he was able to complete >60% of his passes, 285 ypg, too many picks but TD>INT (barely).  You look at Alex Smith first 3 seasons, I would never, never have thought he would go on to be a viable NFL QB -  I'm talking <50% completions, 1 TD 11 INTs etc etc.   And I think Cousins >> Smith now.

 

But I could be mistaken.

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2 hours ago, Rob's House said:

Deshaun Watson - I read that QBs that throw under 55 mph can't succeed. When he threw 49 he came off my proverbial board.

You are the only one on here willing to admit disliking Watson.  Everyone on here thought he would be a bust due to his lack of arm strength but now everyone claims they knew he would be great.

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48 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I could be wrong.  I think Kirk was far more developed at a younger point in his career.  Basically, the first year he got significant playing time (5 starts, 3rd season) he was able to complete >60% of his passes, 285 ypg, too many picks but TD>INT (barely).  You look at Alex Smith first 3 seasons, I would never, never have thought he would go on to be a viable NFL QB -  I'm talking <50% completions, 1 TD 11 INTs etc etc.   And I think Cousins >> Smith now.

 

But I could be mistaken.

 

Good post, you very well could be right.  Just going by the teams they are on, Cousins could certainly look better than Alex Smith; much better supporting cast in Minny.  My initial point was that I believe both are slightly above average QBs who need a good supporting cast to win.  Cousins will have that and look good.  Smith will probably look about average as a Redskin.

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Michael Vick - I thought he was overrated because of his accuracy and questioned his durability if he was going to run the ball as often as he did in college.

 

Eli Manning.  I thought he was over-hyped because of his father and brother.

 

Alex Smith - the gimmicky offense at Utah State combined with questions about his arm strength made me think he'd be a bust.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Derek Carr comes to mind. I didn’t think that he’d be awful but didn’t think that he’d be good. He’s better than I expected.

 

That's my example. Even after his first year, I still thought he was going to be a bum.

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16 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Derek Carr comes to mind. I didn’t think that he’d be awful but didn’t think that he’d be good. He’s better than I expected.

 

That was one that sprung to mind. 

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I didn't think Cams game would translate to the NFL, while I still don't think it's the most effective style of play he makes it work and they have had sustained success with him behind center.

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Cam and Goff.... and I still don't think Goff is good

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11 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

Cam and Goff.... and I still don't think Goff is good

Goff threw for almost 4k yards with 28 tds and less than 10 ints in his second year. I would take that all day from a young developing QB.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Jeetz1231 said:

Goff threw for almost 4k yards with 28 tds and less than 10 ints in his second year. I would take that all day from a young developing QB.

 

I think that is the system... not Goff. I believe a QB like Cousins would throw for 5k and 40 TDs. I just don't think Goff is all that impressive and McVay makes him look better than he actually is.

 

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38 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

 

Fair enough

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Tbh, a lot of the time I don't pay that much attention to the QBs coming out, if the Bills don't look like they are going to be drafting one.

There's been the odd one I really didn't like, and been proven right about (Clausen), and I think I was very leery of Newton, due to his style of play, rather than his ability.

Currently Bortles would be about he most likely candidate, as he seems to be developing decently, and I thought he was way 'over drafted'.

 

I suppose, to an extent, Tannehill falls into a similar category to Bortles. I still think he was a 'reach', but he's done better than I expected, although that may be 'Phins bias coming into play. ;)

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12 hours ago, Rob's House said:

Deshaun Watson - I read that QBs that throw under 55 mph can't succeed. When he threw 49 he came off my proverbial board.

 

Agreed. I thought the same thing about him.  The other issue I had with him was his size and style of play though.  His injury last season might be a sign of things to come so I’ll leave the jury out on him.  Still, he did better than I thought he would. 

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11 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

You are the only one on here willing to admit disliking Watson.  Everyone on here thought he would be a bust due to his lack of arm strength but now everyone claims they knew he would be great.

 

Not everyone thought he would be a bust. 

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