ESPN Insider: Anonymous Execs weigh in on Bills picks and QBs

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

i always love the cold, snow, wind reasoning for picking a QBs. Let's look at those blustery game conditions last year: 

sept 10- 67*

sept 17- 87*

sept 24- 90*

oct 1- Dome

oct 8- 71*

oct 22- 79*

oct 29- 44*

nov 2- 71*

nov 12- 42*

nov 19- 73*

nov 26- 65*

dec 3- 47*

dec10- 29* (snow game!)

dec17- 25*

dec24- 49*

dec 31- 75*

 

playoff: 55*

 

You don't draft a guy based on his ability to play in cold weather, when two of your games are below freezing. 

This deserves its own post.  

[Turk71]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It would surprise me.  Also if Brady Quinn were to "take a poke at him" as the one exec irresponsibly suggested.

Rosen is not Geno Smith, your team's struggling 2nd round draft pick.  He's the guy your team just traded up in the first to draft.

 

Unless you're dumber than a can of dried latex, they all should be able to do that math.

Byron Leftwich might take a poke at him he said. In the heat of the moment when insulted by someone you really don't like, you may not think too hard before decking someone regardless of the consequence.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Except you are grossly inaccurate on the comparison of what Rosen's personality issues are and those other guys.  People don't like Rosen for different reasons than you listed.  

 

I don't think I listed many reasons, but proceed:

 

Quote

Rogers and Brady have the complete respect of those guys in the locker room and side line.  They earned it and they are true leaders.  They are confident, and they fight to win for the team. 

 

There is a MASSIVE difference in how Jeff George and Jay Cutler carry their "confidence" or "a-hole" traits as you put it than Rogers, Brady and Manning.  If you cant see that, then I don't know what to tell you.  Rosen doesn't make people think of how those big 3 HOF QB's lead...he makes them think of Cutler and George.

 

Well, we likely must agree to disagree.  Here is what I see: 

-Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady have the complete respect of the guys in the locker room because they are great NFL QB and give everyone a chance to win every game.

-Jeff George and Jay Cutler never did "prove out" as NFL QB.  They don't have respect because they just don't play very well.  They don't carry themselves with confidence because their QB in the NFL was "weak sauce" and they knew it.

 

If Rosen plays really well, do you really think his locker room is going to be "oh yeah, but he's so full of sh*t, he's a douche"? 

 

I don't.

 

4 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

Byron Leftwich might take a poke at him he said. In the heat of the moment when insulted by someone you really don't like, you may not think too hard before decking someone regardless of the consequence.

 

If you can't control your actions when you're insulted and think before you act, you should not be in a position of teaching or leading others.

 

[The Frankish Reich]

Wasn't Byron Leftwich one of those "big arm, slow eyes" QB failures? How is it that he's being touted as a great QB mentor?

[Bad Things]

Rosen's true colours showed after he was drafted later than he liked.  It was a real eye-opener.

His whinging is the last thing this team needed.

 

So far, I've been liking everything about Josh Allen since we drafted him.  He sure looks like a perfect fit.

[Prickly Pete]

26 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think that Badlands Meanie brought up some interesting points in another thread.  There is something going on here.

 

We have guys who got arrested, who were accused of various kinds of assault and arguably "shielded" by the hometown police and college shirking the investigation, guys who were accused of academic fraud and stealing, all that jive.  And yet I can't ever remember a fraction of the kerfluffle.

 

I'll put it out there, I think this is all a "dogwhistle" for the "F*ck (presidential candidate)" hat and the various strongly expressed views about college athletics.

 

I think NFL owners are scared to death Rosen will build a name for himself in the league and then become Kaepernick 2.0.

 

And they just might have a point, and there really isn't anything he could say to put them at ease on it.

 

 

Yeah, so here's the paradox.  There have been plenty of QB who are arrogant a*holes.  Aaron Rodgers signed up for a couple years of hazing h*ll by walking up to meet Brett Favre for the first time and greeting him with "Hello, Grandpa!" (Seriously, Rodgers?  You called him "Grandpa" the first time you met?) You named 2 more.  Tom Brady isn't called "Tom Terrific" because he's beloved of all in the locker room, and Peyton Manning wasn't called "The Sherriff" because he was such a nice guy.

 

But can anyone recall a similar amount of kerfluffle about a guy's "likeability"?   That's what I thought, I can't either. 

 

It's not the QB job to be likeable, it's his job to play well and make the other team look like "fools with their pants on the ground".  Do that and your locker room charisma instantly elevates.

 

I think they are more concerned he will become Kaepernik 2.0, but NOT make a name for himself in the league, and instead be a pain in the ass without actually being very good

 

And then (like Krapper, who suddenly became a voice for social justice after his career was plummeting) make more of a nuisance of himself when they don't want to deal with him.

 

"Collusion!"

 

This is just as likely (if not more), than him becoming a star AND being a pain in the ass.

 

He s already a pain in the ass. THAT'S THE POINT.

 

I'm so glad he isn't a Bill.

 

[Turk71]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't disbelieve you a bit.  My point is that plenty of other talented college QB have been arrogant douches, or arrested, or investigated for assault, or rumored to use drugs, or all kind of things that, IMHO, sound way more troubling than being a hard-working talented douche, yet (at least to my memory) their drafts and pre-drafts and post-drafts were relatively ripple-free relative to Rosen

I get that, in this case I think it is related to his particular brand of elitist douchebaggery. A lot of cocky arrogant athletes are still liked by their teammates because their arrogance is not necessarily directed at them. Rosen seems to think he is above and beyond his contemporaries to the point of delusion imo. 

[Prickly Pete]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't disbelieve you a bit.  My point is that plenty of other talented college QB have been arrogant douches, or arrested, or investigated for assault, or rumored to use drugs, or all kind of things that, IMHO, sound way more troubling than being a hard-working talented douche, yet (at least to my memory) their drafts and pre-drafts and post-drafts were relatively ripple-free relative to Rosen

 

Yeah, the standards are low, very low. But that is what makes him stand out. Even with the long list of D-Bags, Rosen was notable.

 

As I posted in another thread..

Local LA radio on Rosen..."Before the draft, whenever we asked someone who dealt with him personally, what they thought of Josh Rosen, they gave us "the look". We just kept getting 'the look' from all these different people."

 

These are coaches, boosters, alumni, UCLA team employees, other media.

 

These are guys that deal with local LA D-bag athletes all the time. And they even said they would have selected him before Josh Allen anyway.

Edited May 4, 2018 by OJABBA

[Wayne Arnold]

1 hour ago, Ifartalot said:

Wish reporters would cut the crap.

 

Arizona was thrilled Rosen was there at 10 to trade up for and it cost them a lot less than what iffy Allen cost the Bills. 

 

 

 

And yet the Cardinals had Allen graded out as the #1 QB. Go figure.

[Turk71]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think I listed many reasons, but proceed:

 

 

Well, we likely must agree to disagree.  Here is what I see: 

-Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady have the complete respect of the guys in the locker room because they are great NFL QB and give everyone a chance to win every game.

-Jeff George and Jay Cutler never did "prove out" as NFL QB.  They don't have respect because they just don't play very well.  They don't carry themselves with confidence because their QB in the NFL was "weak sauce" and they knew it.

 

If Rosen plays really well, do you really think his locker room is going to be "oh yeah, but he's so full of sh*t, he's a douche"? 

 

I don't.

 

 

If you can't control your actions when you're insulted and think before you act, you should not be in a position of teaching or leading others.

 

I am not saying Leftwich would stoop so low, I was merely suggesting one of his teammates, not so high on the ladder, might take exception to his obnoxious personality. Growing up in SB I guarantee you this guy would have gotten his ass kicked plenty til he changed his ways.

[racketmaster]

44 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm confused by this bit.  It reads as though Rudolph is Tremain Edmunds brother.  Was there another Edmunds in the draft and chosen by Pitts or ??

No, I was just taking pieces of the story that related to Buffalo or the top QBs. The execs were actually talking about Edmunds brother who was drafted by Pittsburgh. They were not impressed and liked Tremaine much better. 

[Wayne Arnold]

13 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

This deserves its own post.  

 

Why? Beane already said that they would have chosen Allen even if they played in a dome.

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think I listed many reasons.

 

 

Well, we likely must agree to disagree.  Here is what I see: 

-Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady have the complete respect of the guys in the locker room because they are great NFL QB and give everyone a chance to win every game.

-Jeff George and Jay Cutler never did "prove out" as NFL QB.  They don't have respect because they just don't play very well.

 

If Rosen plays really well, do you really think his locker room is going to be "oh yeah, but he's so full of sh*t, he's a douche"? 

 

I don't.

 

Cutler won, and teammates still didnt like him.  So no, I don't think winning always changes everything.  Winning a lot, winning titles...sure, people get past a lot more.  Point is, you need a leader and a field general out there that guys rally for to give yourself the best chance at winning.  

 

And there were 5 highly graded QBs and a 6th in Mason who had a shot at going in the first round.  You weigh them all together and then you make your list on who you feel has the best chance to succeed, and apparently many teams felt the other QB's had a better chance as they went first.

 

People who have an ocean more information on Rosen, who he is, his personality...his pros and cons...all chose to pass on him over other prospects over those concerns.  So you can defend Rosen all you want, but you really don't know anything about Rosen other than highlight film, just like all of us.  And the people who interviewed him felt his personality and durability was enough of a red flag to pass him over for other prospects.  

 

All that matters now is what he does on the field...actually scratch that, F him...all that matters now is what Josh ALLEN does on the field, because he is a Bill and thats all that matters now.  GO BILLS

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

 

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

All that matters now is what he does on the field...actually scratch that, F him...all that matters now is what Josh ALLEN does on the field, because he is a Bill and thats all that matters now.  GO BILLS

 

Now this part I agree with completely!

[The Frankish Reich]

4 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Why? Beane already said that they would have chosen Allen even if they played in a dome.

Because it disproves the "you need an arm for the Buffalo weather" thing.

[MiltonWaddams]

I don't understand those that think Jackson has a good chance to be the best qb in the draft. Watch the play and listen to interviews with each of the top 5 guys. If you, like me, judge your qb by Lombardi's, tell me who comes across as a guy that can lead a team to them? I cannot see a Jackson-led squad in the Super Bowl. He is an incredible athlete and fun to watch, but he is far from cerebral.

[Skins Malone]

35 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

All about Sanchez' clothes?  I don't remember that but maybe...good looking guy, liked to dress classy

 

That is cool, thanks.  Did Pitt draft him?

I thought i remembered the tv guys having an issue with him doing that GQ spread.  Again though im not positive...just something i remember 

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

Now this part I agree with completely!

 

Hahaha all good brother...

 

Also, just want to say we don't always agree on everything, but I do enjoy the convo none the less and the back and forth.  Kudos 

[LaradiseCowboy]

2 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said:

I don't understand those that think Jackson has a good chance to be the best qb in the draft. Watch the play and listen to interviews with each of the top 5 guys. If you, like me, judge your qb by Lombardi's, tell me who comes across as a guy that can lead a team to them? I cannot see a Jackson-led squad in the Super Bowl. He is an incredible athlete and fun to watch, but he is far from cerebral.

 

You have to take the LEADER dynamic out of the quarterback position and think of it as a skill position ONLY. Many franchises look for a QB to be THE face of an organization, but with a wonderlic score of 13 I highly doubt Jackson will ever be the face of a franchise. 

 

Tough, but absolutely true. 

[racketmaster]

28 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I get what you are saying...(capital words below to emphasize, not yell)

 

Except you are grossly inaccurate on the comparison of what Rosen's personality issues are and those other guys.  People don't like Rosen for different reasons than you listed.  

 

Rogers and Brady have the complete respect of those guys in the locker room and side line.  They earned it and they are true leaders.  They are confident, and they fight to win for the team.  

 

There is a MASSIVE difference in how Jeff George and Jay Cutler carry their "confidence" or "a-hole" traits as you put it than Rogers, Brady and Manning.  If you cant see that, then I don't know what to tell you.  Rosen doesn't make people think of how those big 3 HOF QB's lead...he makes them think of Cutler and George.  Thats the issue.  He very well might turn out to be great and get passed it.  But there is an ocean of difference in how he carries himself and how Rogers, Brady, and Manning do.  And thats why people are turned off by him, because they are not yet convinced he can lead a group of men out on the field.  

 

You can be a smart ass, you can be cocky, you can be even an a**hole...but if the guys on the field don't like you unanimously, you wont lead them anywhere.  And everyone seems to think he is a HARD guy to like...Brady, Rogers, and Manning are not hard guys to like.  

 

And the biggest issue, is how will Rosens fake tough guy attitude respond to adversity in the NFL?  He already failed miserably at his first shot in his post draft interview.  It was 100% ok to say 9 teams made a mistake...thats confidence, thats a chip, thats motivation...Great.  But to literally say you sulked, were mad, and tuned out when you didnt go top 3 (and he wasn't even expected to really go top 3) and claim you were going to FAKE SMILE when drafted because of it...thats a mentally weak, bruised ego, p*ssy thing to say.  That is 100% what people don't like about him...its all about him...its about what he looks like...its about his frail ego.  

 

Aaron Rogers went from being debated at #1 to falling all the way to the 20's to GB...did you seem him say he tuned out, had to fake a smile, or any of that BS?  Nope, because its a weak, whiny, bratty thing to do.  You just got chosen in the first round of the NFL draft and about to do what millions wish they could do and get paid a lot to do it.  But no, it was being pissy that he wasn't taken a handful picks later to the point he planned to FAKE A SMILE.  

 

I have ZERO issue with him saying 9 teams made a mistake and he will take it as motivation.  I have ZERO issue if he thinks he's the best QB or best player in the draft, hell I WANT my QB to think that.  Its another to be so butt hurt that you don't even expect to be happy to get drafted in the top 10 and feel you need to fake a smile when it happens.  

 

Especially considering just about anyone with any common sense knew he wasn't going top 3 in the first place.  Cle came down to Baker or Darnold...it was pretty clear NYG were taking Barkley, and Jets were certainly gonna take Darnold at 3.  

This seems right and I don't think the hat really plays much at all into what teams think of Rosen about his character. I think the scouts and executives were much more concerned about Rosen not being liked by teammates and coaches. 

 

Rosen has talent so maybe he works out but the Cutler/George comparisons likely scared off execs more than anything else. 

[bills_believer]

40 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

It would surprise me.  Also if Brady Quinn were to "take a poke at him" as the one exec irresponsibly suggested.

Rosen is not Geno Smith, your team's struggling 2nd round draft pick.  He's the guy your team just traded up in the first to draft.

 

Unless you're dumber than a can of dried latex, they all should be able to do that math.

 

Do you remember JP Losman the Bills first round QB draft pick years ago? From what I remember some of the veterans took offence to the way he carried himself. Troy Vincent who was a union rep gave him a hard hit in practice and broke his arm. JP lost his rookie season to the injury. 

[stuvian]

We play as many as 8 games a year in cold weather. Allen's arm strength is an important factor in this. Rosen and Mayfield made a lot of their completion rates off dink and dunk. Ironically Allen will have to do more dink and dunk to raise his completion rate.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, bills_believer said:

 

Do you remember JP Losman the Bills first round QB draft pick years ago? From what I remember some of the veterans took offence to the way he carried himself. Troy Vincent who was a union rep gave him a hard hit in practice and broke his arm. JP lost his rookie season to the injury. 

 

Leg, not arm.

Troy Vincent was dumber than a can of dried latex if he did it deliberately but that wasn't the impression of eyewitnesses at the time:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/archive/index.php/t-52695.htmlMichael82

 

"08-24-2004, 06:07 PM

JP Losman faked the handoff to the RB, and then ran a bootleg. He was going downfield towards the sideline and Troy Vincent was right there, in front of him. It looked like Vincent hit him with his shoulders and it wasn't purposely. I will say right now...Vincent was NOT intentionally trying to hurt him, and wasn't trying to hit him hard. It was just the way he hit him. They wore pads and there was a LOT of hard hitting. After the play, JP Losman got up and limped a little bit and then the training staff came over and worked his leg, and ankle. They picked him up and loaded him onto the cart. One more thing...

When Losman was down, Troy Vincent stayed with him for a while and wanted to make sure he was okay, plus was telling him how sorry he was. He stayed with him, until the cart came."

 

This folklore gets perpetuated and no one takes 2 minutes to ask whether it's really what happened.

[Paulus]

2 hours ago, QB12 said:

A promising review @Bills...filled w/accolades all around.

You should read what was said under the "Pittsburgh Stealers" caption...

 

[Carter]

We can all agree this was a HUGE risk.  

 

Hopefully it pays off. 

 

If history is any indication, we’re !@#$ed. 

 

? 

[Paulus]

11 minutes ago, Carter said:

We can all agree this was a HUGE risk.  

 

Hopefully it pays off. 

 

If history is any indication, we’re !@#$ed. 

 

? 

Suprised more people are not yelling, "JP Losman."

[BadLandsMeanie]

51 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

I am not saying Leftwich would stoop so low, I was merely suggesting one of his teammates, not so high on the ladder, might take exception to his obnoxious personality. Growing up in SB I guarantee you this guy would have gotten his ass kicked plenty til he changed his ways.

He would clean your clock in two seconds flat.

[Logic]

2 hours ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

i always love the cold, snow, wind reasoning for picking a QBs. Let's look at those blustery game conditions last year: 

sept 10- 67*

sept 17- 87*

sept 24- 90*

oct 1- Dome

oct 8- 71*

oct 22- 79*

oct 29- 44*

nov 2- 71*

nov 12- 42*

nov 19- 73*

nov 26- 65*

dec 3- 47*

dec10- 29* (snow game!)

dec17- 25*

dec24- 49*

dec 31- 75*

 

playoff: 55*

 

You don't draft a guy based on his ability to play in cold weather, when two of your games are below freezing. 

Beane said they would have drafted Allen even if they played in a dome. So...

[Turk71]

4 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

He would clean your clock in two seconds flat.

Who? You do not know me very well, Joe Muscato taught me to box, my brother was a NY state wrestling champion and I beat up bullies on a regular basis in SB. Maybe he would clean your clock, I would not be afraid of that punk even at my age.

[Wily Dog]

Supposedly, Arizona had a trade worked out with Denver to move up to five. It all went to hell because of Chubb's availability to Denver. They were going to take Allen. The Colts didn't want to trade because of Nelson being available to them. That left the Buc's and Beane outbid the Cardinal's. The Cardinals were Distraught by the turn of events and had to settle for Rosen. Rumor has it that the Jets scouts wanted their GM to take Allen but he didn't have the stones to. The thing that if it is true that the Bronco's GM .Elway had a tacit agreement with the Cardinals  , did Beane know about it and was Elways price too high for the Bills. or was Elway screwing the Bills.

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 minute ago, Turk71 said:

Who? You do not know me very well, Joe Muscato taught me to box, my brother was a NY state wrestling champion and I beat up bullies on a regular basis in SB. Maybe he would clean your clock, I would not be afraid of that punk even at my age.

Big talk. He is a 6 foot 4 inch elite athlete in superb physical condition..

 

You think he hasn't had to deal with judgmental jealous punks all his life?

 

2 seconds even if you were his age.

[wppete]

I love the Allen and Edmunds picks. Perfect for the Bills. 

[Turk71]

18 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Big talk. He is a 6 foot 4 inch elite athlete in superb physical condition..

 

You think he hasn't had to deal with judgmental jealous punks all his life?

 

2 seconds even if you were his age.

Like I said, you do not know me very well; with my experience I can tell you he is not a tough guy and yes I am confident I could still wipe the floor with his sorry ass.

[bills_believer]

45 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Leg, not arm.

Troy Vincent was dumber than a can of dried latex if he did it deliberately but that wasn't the impression of eyewitnesses at the time:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/archive/index.php/t-52695.htmlMichael82

 

"08-24-2004, 06:07 PM

JP Losman faked the handoff to the RB, and then ran a bootleg. He was going downfield towards the sideline and Troy Vincent was right there, in front of him. It looked like Vincent hit him with his shoulders and it wasn't purposely. I will say right now...Vincent was NOT intentionally trying to hurt him, and wasn't trying to hit him hard. It was just the way he hit him. They wore pads and there was a LOT of hard hitting. After the play, JP Losman got up and limped a little bit and then the training staff came over and worked his leg, and ankle. They picked him up and loaded him onto the cart. One more thing...

When Losman was down, Troy Vincent stayed with him for a while and wanted to make sure he was okay, plus was telling him how sorry he was. He stayed with him, until the cart came."

 

This folklore gets perpetuated and no one takes 2 minutes to ask whether it's really what happened.

 

During that drill JP Losman was wearing a red jersey which meant that no one was supposed to touch him. I don't think Vincent intended to hurt him, but in that drill he shouldn't have even touched him. 

 

Of course everyone denied that it was intentional, but at the time there were those who said Losman was acting pretty cocky. 

 

From the Olean Times Herald at the time, "In his very first training camp, the California native came off as a bit cocky and when he was reportedly hot-dogging during a scramble, Losman was tagged by safety Troy Vincent, a popular team leader, and J.P. fell awkwardly, breaking his leg."

 

http://www.oleantimesherald.com/sports/article_b93cd309-410f-5f5c-aa92-e4fa4c0e2470.html?mode=jqm

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think that Badlands Meanie brought up some interesting points in another thread.  There is something going on here.

 

We have guys who got arrested, who were accused of various kinds of assault and arguably "shielded" by the hometown police and college shirking the investigation, guys who were accused of academic fraud and stealing, all that jive.  And yet I can't ever remember a fraction of the kerfluffle.

 

I'll put it out there, I think this is all a "dogwhistle" for the "F*ck (presidential candidate)" hat and the various strongly expressed views about college athletics.

 

I think NFL owners are scared to death Rosen will build a name for himself in the league and then become Kaepernick 2.0.

 

And they just might have a point, and there really isn't anything he could say to put them at ease on it.

 

 

Yeah, so here's the paradox.  There have been plenty of QB who are arrogant a*holes.  Aaron Rodgers signed up for a couple years of hazing h*ll by walking up to meet Brett Favre for the first time and greeting him with "Hello, Grandpa!" (Seriously, Rodgers?  You called him "Grandpa" the first time you met?) You named 2 more.  Tom Brady isn't called "Tom Terrific" because he's beloved of all in the locker room, and Peyton Manning wasn't called "The Sherriff" because he was such a nice guy.

 

But can anyone recall a similar amount of kerfluffle about a guy's "likeability"?   That's what I thought, I can't either. 

 

It's not the QB job to be likeable, it's his job to play well and make the other team look like "fools with their pants on the ground".  Do that and your locker room charisma instantly elevates.

I always enjoy the read. Kudos for dropping kerfuffle. 

 

That said...I think you're working awful hard on this "dogwhistle" thing. Rosen was selected with the 10th pick of the draft, only 9 guys went ahead of him, 200++ after him, and he was the 4th qb overall.  Forbes is projecting his rookie contract to be worth nearly $18 million.  For all the positive attributes he brings to the table, he is not--as far as I have read or seen--a sure-fire-can't-miss player.  NFL ready, yup, got all that, but he's not Peyton Manning.  It's sensible to consider all aspects of the player when evaluating him as a prospect, and certainly attitude and the consideration of how he might fit in your scheme is 100% fair and certainly not nefarious. We all know teams can miss, but I see this as really quite the opposite of a dog whistle...it's a pronouncement by 9 teams that they wanted someone other than Rosen, for whatever reason revealed or hidden---and as importantly, the 10th team who bet strongly on him, f the prez hat notwithstanding. 

 

 

 

 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Cutler won, and teammates still didnt like him.  So no, I don't think winning always changes everything.  Winning a lot, winning titles...sure, people get past a lot more.  Point is, you need a leader and a field general out there that guys rally for to give yourself the best chance at winning.  

 

And there were 5 highly graded QBs and a 6th in Mason who had a shot at going in the first round.  You weigh them all together and then you make your list on who you feel has the best chance to succeed, and apparently many teams felt the other QB's had a better chance as they went first.

 

People who have an ocean more information on Rosen, who he is, his personality...his pros and cons...all chose to pass on him over other prospects over those concerns.  So you can defend Rosen all you want, but you really don't know anything about Rosen other than highlight film, just like all of us.  And the people who interviewed him felt his personality and durability was enough of a red flag to pass him over for other prospects.  

 

All that matters now is what he does on the field...actually scratch that, F him...all that matters now is what Josh ALLEN does on the field, because he is a Bill and thats all that matters now.  GO BILLS

You are portraying him as a player who is so toxic that teams avoided him like the plague. That belies the fact that he was drafted in the top ten and by a team that moved up to get him. It's apparent that he doesn't have a warm and congenial personality. So what? Whatever criticisms he has attracted none of them relate to how hard he works and how advanced he is as a qb 

 

All four qbs in the top tier had issues. Although all the top qbs in this draft were highly rated every one of them had various flaws that were factored in by the teams selecting qbs. My feeling toward this group is that each of them, different as they may be, will be successful. 

 

The below link highlights the fact that Rosen is a more complicated personality than most college players. 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/03/josh-rosen-arizona-cardinals-draft-mmqb-albert-breer

 

Edited May 4, 2018 by JohnC

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think that Badlands Meanie brought up some interesting points in another thread.  There is something going on here.

 

We have guys who got arrested, who were accused of various kinds of assault and arguably "shielded" by the hometown police and college shirking the investigation, guys who were accused of academic fraud and stealing, all that jive.  And yet I can't ever remember a fraction of the kerfluffle.

 

I'll put it out there, I think this is all a "dogwhistle" for the "F*ck (presidential candidate)" hat and the various strongly expressed views about college athletics.

 

I think NFL owners are scared to death Rosen will build a name for himself in the league and then become Kaepernick 2.0.

 

And they just might have a point, and there really isn't anything he could say to put them at ease on it.

 

 

Yeah, so here's the paradox.  There have been plenty of QB who are arrogant a*holes.  Aaron Rodgers signed up for a couple years of hazing h*ll by walking up to meet Brett Favre for the first time and greeting him with "Hello, Grandpa!" (Seriously, Rodgers?  You called him "Grandpa" the first time you met?) You named 2 more.  Tom Brady isn't called "Tom Terrific" because he's beloved of all in the locker room, and Peyton Manning wasn't called "The Sherriff" because he was such a nice guy.

 

But can anyone recall a similar amount of kerfluffle about a guy's "likeability"?   That's what I thought, I can't either. 

 

It's not the QB job to be likeable, it's his job to play well and make the other team look like "fools with their pants on the ground".  Do that and your locker room charisma instantly elevates.

Um ... Brady is more or less beloved or at the least deeply respected by his teammates, and has been forever. I challenge anyone to present *compelling* evidence suggesting otherwise. You will not find it.

[Turk71]

22 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Big talk. He is a 6 foot 4 inch elite athlete in superb physical condition..

 

You think he hasn't had to deal with judgmental jealous punks all his life?

 

2 seconds even if you were his age.

For your information I am not jealous at all. I am perfectly happy with my situation in life, happily married and successful, and I would gladly kick the **** out of that punk if the opportunity presented itself. You have no idea who I am and what I am capable of. I was a guy who fought his way out of a life I was not destined for. I left with nothing and have built a great life with a woman I love for 21 years and could not be happier. To insinuate I would be intimidated by a 6'4" douchebag is laughable, I am 6'3" and 225 lbs myself, I also grew up fighting jackasses and do not fear people in that way. Live with your own fears and don't project them on people you don't know.

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You are portraying him as a player who is so toxic that teams avoided him like the plague. That belies the fact that he was drafted in the top ten and by a team that moved up to get him. It's apparent that he doesn't have a warm and congenial personality. So what? Whatever criticisms he has attracted none of them relate to how hard he works and how advanced he is as a qb 

 

All four qbs in the top tier had issues. Although all the top qbs in this draft were highly rated every one of them had various flaws that were factored in by the teams selecting qbs. My feeling toward this group is that each of them, different as they may be, will be successful. 

 

I have said all this too...they all had flaws.  We are talking about Rosen specifically here, not saying he was only one with flaws, but talking about why he slid.  No one said he isnt still a good prospect or cant overcome the concerns, including me.  I even said repeatedly I would have been excited to have him, he still is a talented prospects.  But of the 4 he was the one I wanted the least, and the guy I wanted to risk the least on in a trade up.  I would have been fine if the Bills took him at 7 in fact.  

 

I do think that Rosen compares much more to Jay Cutler than Aaron Rogers though.  Just absurd to compare him to Rogers, they are not remotely on the same level or the same type of player.  I think Jay Cutler is his ceiling personally...solid career, but not what I am targeting in the top 10.  

[White Linen]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Anyone can pull it together for one interview, especially when your PR person coaches you.  

 

You know his PR person, said man you have to get people to like you.  The opinion of you must be squashed during this pre-draft process.  They worked on it and worked on it and he still couldn't.