RD1, Pick 7: Josh Allen QB - Wyoming

[eball]

3 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

He was the fourth QB selected in the draft. That indicates how he was valued by NFL teams.

 

Math is hard.

[K-9]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Right. I need to fully support everything the Bills did, cult style.

 

they hired a bad OC that got fired less than a year on the job.

they forced Tyrod into a WCO, which smart posters knew was a bad fit.

they traded away their best wr who did the thing Tyrod did best a month before the season.

they traded for Benjamin, who gets hurt every other game and has gotten worse every season of his career.

they brought Jordan Matthews in to be a number 1 wr.

zay Jones was a disaster and nearly killed himself this offseason.

they drafted a qb who couldn’t make any of the All MWC teams.

 

yeah, why should anyone ever question their offensive moves?

There were many "smart posters" who thought TT would flourish at the time given his exposure to the system during his four years in Baltimore. 

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

I actually watch the games rather than spouting stats.

 

Just because you watch games doesn't mean you know what you're looking at.  If you think Rosen is a single read QB, then you simply don't know how to watch the game in an evaluation of a QB because he often scans the field to weigh his options.  Keep chopping. 

[Sky Diver]

Just now, Trogdor said:

Now I know you're not basing this off of football. How about his 421yds 3tds and 1int in a loss to USC? They don't win games without him. You have an axe to grind with him, and it must be messing with your vision. 

 

 

UCLA went 10 - 3 the year before Rosen, to 8-5, 4-8 and 6-7 with Rosen.

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

There were many "smart posters" who thought TT would flourish at the time given his exposure to the system during his four years in Baltimore. 

Gig em.

[Sky Diver]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Just because you watch games doesn't mean you know what you're looking at.  If you think Rosen is a single read QB, then you simply don't know how to watch the game in an evaluation of a QB because he often scans the field to weigh his options.  Keep chopping. 

 

The teams that picked Mayfield, Darnold and Allen ahead of Rosen don’t know what they are looking at either?

 

I think you need to end your Rosen crusade and stop embarrassing yourself, especially since he plays for another team.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Sky Diver said:

The teams that picked Mayfield, Darnold and Allen ahead of Rosen don’t know what they are looking at either?

 

I think you need to end your Rosen crusade and stop embarrassing yourself, especially since he plays for another team.

 

What's embarrassing is an asinine statement of Rosen being a one read QB that simply shows you have no idea what you're talking about or are being willfully ignorant in your continued vendetta.  Rosen dropping to10th overall had nothing to do with his play on the field which seems to escape you.  Keep chopping. 

[Cripple Creek]

2 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

The teams that picked Mayfield, Darnold and Allen ahead of Rosen don’t know what they are looking at either?

 

I think you need to end your Rosen crusade and stop embarrassing yourself, especially since he plays for another team.

I was surprised when he was picked, but, I like what I've seen since. He's the Bills QB and I want nothing more than to see him succeed. Most folks want nothing else except for a select few.

[Bockeye]

20 minutes ago, K-9 said:

A "defense guy" wouldn't have any idea what to look for in a successful franchise QB? You mean "defense guys" who spend their careers scheming ways to stop successful franchise QBs? This makes little sense and I could argue that "defense guys" know exactly what to look for in a QB given the time they spend trying to defeat them. 

Bill Belichick agrees.  

[Sky Diver]

6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

What's embarrassing is an asinine statement of Rosen being a one read QB that simply shows you have no idea what you're talking about or are being willfully ignorant in your continued vendetta.  Rosen dropping to10th overall had nothing to do with his play on the field which seems to escape you.  Keep chopping. 

 

Don’t let facts get in the way of reality. Keep spewing.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Sky Diver said:

Don’t let facts get in the way of reality. Keep spewing.

 

You haven't presented any facts.  I like the way you reflect back as a defense mechanism.  Just know that it doesn't work as you're already exposed. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

37 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

I'd expect you to say nothing other than that given your crusade against him.  He was under quite a bit of pressure in that game, he stood in and performed.

Pot meet kettle.   

 

You sir have many crusades.  

 

And when someone has  a different opinion you get offended.  

 

 

[Trogdor]

3 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

UCLA went 10 - 3 the year before Rosen, to 8-5, 4-8 and 6-7 with Rosen.

You watch the games and don't know about their defense? They ranked 123rd in overall defense last year.  Without Rosen they probably win 2 games a year. I personally wanted Mayfield, but I can't stand people who obviously don't like Rosen for some personal reason and try to justify it with football. Go and look and see how many losses he had where he threw for 400 or close to that and 2tds at least. Wyoming was 23rd in defense btw. 

[dickleyjones]

hey look, people still arguing about something they can't possibly know. i hope all the qbs end up being good ones, i want to watch good games. but who knows, any one of them could fail miserably, or light it up.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

20 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Just because you watch games doesn't mean you know what you're looking at.  If you think Rosen is a single read QB, then you simply don't know how to watch the game in an evaluation of a QB because he often scans the field to weigh his options.  Keep chopping. 

Please post your NFL employment resume.  

 

Your opinion holds as much weight as (nearly) anyone else’s opinion.  

 

I say nearly because NO ONE is perfect.  

 

 

[John from Riverside]

guys....guys....GUYS

 

Why are we arguing over a qb that we didnt pick

 

Hes gone....he is a cardinal.  Regardless of what we thought before the draft its time to move on.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

guys....guys....GUYS

 

Why are we arguing over a qb that we didnt pick

 

Hes gone....he is a cardinal.  Regardless of what we thought before the draft its time to move on.

Why??    

 

Well I think it’s clear ....  but to your point let’s move on.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 5/2/2018 at 5:35 PM, BullBuchanan said:

 

That's not at all what I'm trying to say. Good QBs can throw a whole team on their back to beat inferior schools. Big Ben threw Miami of Ohio on his back and carried them to a 13-1 record, throwing near 70%, for more yards, touchdowns and fewer interceptions than Allen did in his whole career.

 

People like to say that, but IME it's never true.  There's no way a good QB can overcome a horrid D for example.  Football is a team game.  It just is.

 

Between 2001 and 2007 Miami of Ohio had 6 players drafted in the NFL, including an OT in 2001,  a OG in 2004, and a WR in 2007.  That doesn't make them a powerhouse, but it does show at that time, Miami of Ohio wasn't totally bereft of talent. 

 

Of course, Wyoming had a C and a RB drafted last year and an OLB drafted the year before, so you could make the same argument there.

[Cripple Creek]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

guys....guys....GUYS

 

Why are we arguing over a qb that we didnt pick

 

Hes gone....he is a cardinal.  Regardless of what we thought before the draft its time to move on.

Thanks, that will fix everything.

[BillsFan4]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Source?

Good luck with that...

 

I asked him the same thing like 5 days ago and I'm still waiting. 

 

And that was after showing him the reports from Schefter, Rapaport and Simms who all said exactly the opposite. 

[Wayne Arnold]

On 5/2/2018 at 1:44 AM, BullBuchanan said:

 

The senior bowl is the NCAA Pro Bowl.

 

Horrendous comparison. Just terrible.

[Sky Diver]

40 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

People like to say that, but IME it's never true.  There's no way a good QB can overcome a horrid D for example.  Football is a team game.  It just is.

 

Between 2001 and 2007 Miami of Ohio had 6 players drafted in the NFL, including an OT in 2001,  a OG in 2004, and a WR in 2007.  That doesn't make them a powerhouse, but it does show at that time, Miami of Ohio wasn't totally bereft of talent. 

 

Of course, Wyoming had a C and a RB drafted last year and an OLB drafted the year before, so you could make the same argument there.

 

Look at Flutie’s and RJ’s record with the same D.

[Magnum Force]

2 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Look at Flutie’s and RJ’s record with the same D.

When I first read this...all I could think of was Flutie and Rick Jeanerette...forgot about Rob Johnson.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Sky Diver said:

The teams that picked Mayfield, Darnold and Allen ahead of Rosen don’t know what they are looking at either?

I think you need to end your Rosen crusade and stop embarrassing yourself, especially since he plays for another team.

 

I believe this is excellent advice and should be taken by both parties.

[The Now Moment]

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

We agree that there is risk but it isn’t the same risk across the board. Andrew Luck came into the league with very little risk. Aaron Rodgers and Blake Bortles came with a lot of risk. Allen is certainly considered high risk. 

And I'm saying Rosen isn't a sure thing either.  Just because his numbers are better doesn't mean he will translate to the NFL better.  It's more than the field, it's the locker room and a lot more responsibility.  I don't think he is a good leader, he's an as$hole and I think he'll rough some feathers at some point.  He's also fragile with concussion question marks.  I'll take a little mechanics issue over a guy with head injuries.  We need a tough guy in this city, not a pretty boy.  That's not what this city is.  Jim Kelly defined Buffalo, we need another guy like that.  Someone who embraces the weather.  We missed out on Big Ben last time, I'm glad we didn't make that mistake this time.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

And I'm saying Rosen isn't a sure thing either.  Just because his numbers are better doesn't mean he will translate to the NFL better.  It's more than the field, it's the locker room and a lot more responsibility.  I don't think he is a good leader, he's an as$hole and I think he'll rough some feathers at some point.  He's also fragile with concussion question marks.  I'll take a little mechanics issue over a guy with head injuries.  We need a tough guy in this city, not a pretty boy.  That's not what this city is.  Jim Kelly defined Buffalo, we need another guy like that.  Someone who embraces the weather.  We missed out on Big Ben last time, I'm glad we didn't make that mistake this time.

 

Your post is certainly aligned with the general media themes about Rosen.

 

I'll say this. 

 

Fundamentally, playing QB is about being able to correctly interpret what you see on the field, identify what your options are, decide, and throw accurately.

A guy may be an as$hole, be able to do all those things brilliantly, and succeed.  He's kind of like a car with a broken window or a ratty headliner.  It isn't fun, you don't want to hang out in it, but it gets you where you need to go.  You put cardboard over the window, tape up the headliner, and drive.  Maybe you can even modify the headliner.

 

A "little mechanics issue" for a QB, or for that matter the inability to interpret/identify/decide on the field, is like a car with a bad transfer case.  It fundamentally can't do the job that you need it to do.

 

I'm NOT saying that's true of Allen.  The Bills may have info that leads them to believe they can fix his transfer case and cruise with him.  They may have preferred him entirely for football reasons.  I hope that's true.

 

I'm saying I don't feel better about the Allen draft pick because  we're told he "defines Buffalo" or is perceived to be "great in the locker room" and not an "as$hole".  Because fundamentally, if he can't do the job a QB needs to do on the field, it's no good.

[Dr. Who]

44 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Your post is certainly aligned with the general media themes about Rosen.

 

I'll say this. 

 

Fundamentally, playing QB is about being able to correctly interpret what you see on the field, identify what your options are, decide, and throw accurately.

A guy may be an as$hole, be able to do all those things brilliantly, and succeed.  He's kind of like a car with a broken window or a ratty headliner.  It isn't fun, you don't want to hang out in it, but it gets you where you need to go.  You put cardboard over the window, tape up the headliner, and drive.  Maybe you can even modify the headliner.

 

A "little mechanics issue" for a QB, or for that matter the inability to interpret/identify/decide on the field, is like a car with a bad transfer case.  It fundamentally can't do the job that you need it to do.

 

I'm NOT saying that's true of Allen.  The Bills may have info that leads them to believe they can fix his transfer case and cruise with him.  They may have preferred him entirely for football reasons.  I hope that's true.

 

I'm saying I don't feel better about the Allen draft pick because  we're told he "defines Buffalo" or is perceived to be "great in the locker room" and not an "as$hole".  Because fundamentally, if he can't do the job a QB needs to do on the field, it's no good.

I don't think having a bad personality is a superficial issue, but if you're a superior player, teams learn to deal with it.  A good fella that can't play isn't preferable to a jerk who can.  I honestly don't think the current regime passed on Rosen for Allen bacause they think the latter is a more pleasing character to hang out with.  My guess is they think his mechanical issues are very likely fixable.  They may even think he is the best future NFL qb and we were lucky his surrounding cast in 2017 was so bad it masked his ability somewhat.  That is the happy scenario and I'm going with it.  If they allowed charisma to be the defining issue, they are not good football minds.  At this point, I have no reason to think they are foolish.  Further, it seems the football folks tend to like Allen, while bloggers and analytic nerds prefer Rosen.  We'll see how it plays out.

[Skins Malone]

5 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

And I'm saying Rosen isn't a sure thing either.  Just because his numbers are better doesn't mean he will translate to the NFL better.  It's more than the field, it's the locker room and a lot more responsibility.  I don't think he is a good leader, he's an as$hole and I think he'll rough some feathers at some point.  He's also fragile with concussion question marks.  I'll take a little mechanics issue over a guy with head injuries.  We need a tough guy in this city, not a pretty boy.  That's not what this city is.  Jim Kelly defined Buffalo, we need another guy like that.  Someone who embraces the weather.  We missed out on Big Ben last time, I'm glad we didn't make that mistake this time.

Your calling Josh Rosen a pretty boy??  Have you seen his face? Josh Allen has a baby face and im sure alot more women find him more attract then Rosen.  And im sorry but Jim Kelly did not define Buffalo.  He refused to play here until we gave him the richest contract to date.  Its also well documented Jim Kelly was extremely arrogant and did not treat people well when he came to Buffalo.  Now he may have changed..he made his home here...and he truly loves Buffalo..but it didnt start out like that.  So lets just be fair pal.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Skins Malone

[Fixxxer]

from Cover1.net: 

 

 

[The Now Moment]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Your post is certainly aligned with the general media themes about Rosen.

 

I'll say this. 

 

Fundamentally, playing QB is about being able to correctly interpret what you see on the field, identify what your options are, decide, and throw accurately.

A guy may be an as$hole, be able to do all those things brilliantly, and succeed.  He's kind of like a car with a broken window or a ratty headliner.  It isn't fun, you don't want to hang out in it, but it gets you where you need to go.  You put cardboard over the window, tape up the headliner, and drive.  Maybe you can even modify the headliner.

 

A "little mechanics issue" for a QB, or for that matter the inability to interpret/identify/decide on the field, is like a car with a bad transfer case.  It fundamentally can't do the job that you need it to do.

 

I'm NOT saying that's true of Allen.  The Bills may have info that leads them to believe they can fix his transfer case and cruise with him.  They may have preferred him entirely for football reasons.  I hope that's true.

 

I'm saying I don't feel better about the Allen draft pick because  we're told he "defines Buffalo" or is perceived to be "great in the locker room" and not an "as$hole".  Because fundamentally, if he can't do the job a QB needs to do on the field, it's no good.

I never like Rosen.  Don't think his ceiling is very high at all and he doesn't fit what we are trying to do at all.  Why would they take him?  Honestly though, why did people think he fit in Buffalo?  It is not certain Rosen will get the job done.  Just because he was from a big school and played fairly well doesn't mean he will be any good.  He had talent all around him and what did they win?  Everybody craps on Allen for playing on a nobody team but how is Rosen any better?  They were an average team with him.  Allen was Wyoming.  

 

Rosen would have been a square peg trying to fit into a round hole in Buffalo. 

15 minutes ago, Skins Malone said:

Your calling Josh Rosen a pretty boy??  Have you seen his face? Josh Allen has a baby face and im sure alot more women find him more attract then Rosen.  And im sorry but Jim Kelly did not define Buffalo.  He refused to play here until we gave him the richest contract to date.  Its also well documented Jim Kelly was extremely arrogant and did not treat people well when he came to Buffalo.  Now he may have changed..he made his home here...and he truly loves Buffalo..but it didnt start out like that.  So lets just be fair pal.

Fair enough but Rosen is not like Kelly in many ways.  Pretty boy in how he acts not what he looks like...yes Kelly was like that to start but he became Kelly we love today.  Allen is already that type of guy.  He doesn't need to change.  Rosen reminds me of Leaf a bit.  Can't wait to see if he starts screaming at a reporter.  Unless he does a 180, I am not a Rosen fan at all.  

[Magnum Force]

15 minutes ago, Fixxxer said:

from Cover1.net: 

 

 

That is some good stuff....cant wait for training camp and pre season.

[Skins Malone]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

I never like Rosen.  Don't think his ceiling is very high at all and he doesn't fit what we are trying to do at all.  Why would they take him?  Honestly though, why did people think he fit in Buffalo?  It is not certain Rosen will get the job done.  Just because he was from a big school and played fairly well doesn't mean he will be any good.  He had talent all around him and what did they win?  Everybody craps on Allen for playing on a nobody team but how is Rosen any better?  They were an average team with him.  Allen was Wyoming.  

 

Rosen would have been a square peg trying to fit into a round hole in Buffalo. 

Fair enough but Rosen is not like Kelly in many ways.  Pretty boy in how he acts not what he looks like...yes Kelly was like that to start but he became Kelly we love today.  Allen is already that type of guy.  He doesn't need to change.  Rosen reminds me of Leaf a bit.  Can't wait to see if he starts screaming at a reporter.  Unless he does a 180, I am not a Rosen fan at all.  

Agree and that was my point...people can change.  Now im not a Rosen fan at all but im sure people were livid when Jim didnt come here and look how it turned out.  He was best we ever had.  Just saying you never know how these guys will turn out.  I wanted Allen over Rosen..i could be wrong..but i like Allen.  Just something about him.  And i agree with your assessment of him.

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Skins Malone

[The Now Moment]

2 minutes ago, Skins Malone said:

Agree and that was my point...people can change.  Now im not a Rosen fan at all but im sure people were livid when Jim didnt come here and look how it turned out.  He was best we ever had.  Just saying you never know how these guys will turn out.  I wanted Allen over Rosen..i could be wrong..but i like Allen.  Just something about him.  And i agree with your assessment of him.

 

I like Allen too.  I think he just needs to play with better talent.  He was trying to do way too much and his numbers got out of wack because of it.  I think he will be just fine in the NFL.  If he had been on USC or any of the big schools, he'd be a number 1 pick without question.