RD1, Pick 7: Josh Allen QB - Wyoming

[Ol Dirty B]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But its real with Baker...something about Rosen feels like fake tough guy act.  The fact he sulked and tuned out after not going in top 3 is concerning.  The fact he said that he planned on putting on a fake smile when getting his name called is a red flag.  

 

He comes across as a spoiled baby, not a fiery competitor.  Baker has the make up of Kobe Bryant, wants to kill you on the field.  The kind of fire people feed on.  Rosen's fire is all about himself.  

 

There is a big difference.  Hence...Baker #1 overall, Rosen never even considered for #1.  In fact, only Darnold, Allen, and Baker were ever linked to the Browns...Rosen was never even a real option.  He's a hard guy to like.

 

I mean that's you're opinion, I can't say you're right or wrong. But that's a lot of just made up silly stuff in this post. 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But its real with Baker...something about Rosen feels like fake tough guy act.  The fact he sulked and tuned out after not going in top 3 is concerning.  The fact he said that he planned on putting on a fake smile when getting his name called is a red flag.  

 

He comes across as a spoiled baby, not a fiery competitor.  Baker has the make up of Kobe Bryant, wants to kill you on the field.  The kind of fire people feed on.  Rosen's fire is all about himself.  

 

There is a big difference.  Hence...Baker #1 overall, Rosen never even considered for #1.  In fact, only Darnold, Allen, and Baker were ever linked to the Browns...Rosen was never even a real option.  He's a hard guy to like.

You’d love it if the Bills drafted him, be honest.  

[GoBills808]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

He could...I never said he wasn't.  I said he has red flags, just like all the prospects.  Baker was my guy, not Allen, but I also see a ton of potential in Allen too.  So for so many to just declare he will fail is just crazy at this point.  

It’s also just lazy. Predicting a guy won’t be any good is the easy call...I have to wonder why you’d be so adamant about the guy your team just drafted. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

He could...I never said he wasn't.  I said he has red flags, just like all the prospects.  Baker was my guy, not Allen, but I also see a ton of potential in Allen too.  So for so many to just declare he will fail is just crazy at this point.  

 

I think he most likely fails. The same as I thought yesterday and in February when I finished watching his tape. Being drafted by the Bills doesn't move the dial in either way. I would be delighted to be wrong and I will cheer for him as hard as I have cheered for the littany of other Bills I wouldn't have selected. Once you put on the uniform you have my support.... but you have heart not head. The two have to be separate. 

[Dark]

I think trying to analyze what a player is going to do in the NFL by their comments and reaction to the draft is just noise.  Completion percentage on the other hand . . . 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your view as to how EJ was treated. If you want to make the argument that EJ wasn't ready to play and was thrown to the wolves that is a reasonable argument to make. But the reality is that Marrone and his staff recognized very early on that EJ was not then good enough and would never be good enough. It wasn't what they say in the games that scared them off as much as what they say in practice that made them quickly come to the conclusion that he was never going to be a starter in this league. Marrone was a prickly character and very unlikable. While Whaley wanted to stick with the EJ experiment Marrone was adamant that he was right in his assessment in the player. Marrone quickly came to the judgment that  GM made a mistake with the selection of EJ and that it was not a correctable mistake. In my mind the dour coach was right. 

 

I also reluctantly disagree with you on when Allen will get playing time. There is too much invested in the selection of Allen to risk screwing up his development. I'm confident that he not only was one of the qbs that this regime targeted early but also that they put together a plan on how to bring him along. It's my opinion that the coaching staff is going to error on the side of being cautious before putting him on the field. KC's approach to Mahome in his rookie year is the model that I think will be followed. 

 

I am not necessarily saying EJ deserved longer. He didn't the Houston game was benchable, it is the principle of how and when you pull QBs. I'd have ridden out that season and released him at the end of it. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

Just now, White Linen said:

 

I just think a reasonable amount of concession has to be made from fans - that at minimum they can't have the same amount of information as a team.  It's a hunch or a gut feeling on both sides but I give the benefit of the doubt to the team because of information.  

 

For example I watch a good amount of college basketball and my wife watches none.  She could easily beat me in filling out an NCAA bracket.  However that doesn't mean she evaluates better than me, she got lucky.   It may be that she just picked the winner and got more points in the end.  

 

So of course a fan can be right and a team wrong.  It doesn't mean they're stupid or unable to do the job.  They took a shot on Allen - let's see if they got lucky.  

 

 

 

No kidding!  They worked out Rosen, they worked out Allen.  Allen is physically superior in EVERY respect.  Rosen more pro-ready.  Post by 26CornerBlitz from ESPN seems right:  McCarron gives Bills the luxury of getting Allen right (unlike what they did to EJ).  Huge difference from the EJ pick where they traded down and settled for EJ (great guy, not yet a good QB), they went up and got their guy.  Rosen didn't measure up.  It is pretty arrogant for the board to think they know better than the Bills scouts.  Every other QB desperate team passed on Rosen too - until the Cards who got the leftover because they were in a bad spot.  Allen may or may not work out, but I respect what they did here.  And I bet he works out.

[White Linen]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But equally the right mindset is not to wipe everything you have thought before based on the evidence you have seen from your mind and blindly follow. I hope Allen is great. I just refuse to understand why saying "I didn't think that during the college season and I didn't think that during the draft season so I am not suddenly going to start thinking it now" gets so many people's backs up. I hope he will be great but I don't think that is the most likely outcome. 

 

I'm not sure I understand what the end goal of not following is?  I mean, I get what you're saying - you aren't just going to believe in Allen now because they took him and that's perfectly ok.   Maybe you're just getting your thoughts out?  I'm just saying whether you think that's the outcome or not, beyond just having the debate, has no barring on the outcome.  I was just suggesting to concede a little that they worked hard on the decision and likely have more intel than we do and to find a reason for optimism.  

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he most likely fails. The same as I thought yesterday and in February when I finished watching his tape. Being drafted by the Bills doesn't move the dial in either way. I would be delighted to be wrong and I will cheer for him as hard as I have cheered for the littany of other Bills I wouldn't have selected. Once you put on the uniform you have my support.... but you have heart not head. The two have to be separate. 

 

Don't get it twisted, its not my love of the Bills talking here.  I have not once said Allen is gonna be a stud.  I was anti-Allen a while back.  But I posted during the offseason that he was really changing my mind by just crushing the offseason.  I still entered the draft with Baker way out in front of my QB rankings.  Then had Darnold at #2, and closely behind him the 3 of Allen, Rosen, and Lamar were all closely grouped for me.  They all had different pros and cons, but they balanced out similarly to me.  So there wasn't a guy in the top 5 I was going to be upset about, they all just had different things I liked or didn't like about them, but all were exciting prospects none the less.

 

So, for me, its just exciting to have a guy with so much potential.  If you want to say Allen has a lower floor, I would get it and not even disagree.  But to me, there is no disputing that Allen as high a ceiling as any QB in the draft, maybe even the highest.  So, I am still excited none the less.  I will let his play on the field dictate how I begin to see him moving forward.  But most importantly, was we got our guy without having to give up both firsts and still got a stud at LB.  

Edited April 27, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Prickly Pete]

Today was a GREAT DAY!

 

It went as well as I could have imagined. Darnold was my first choice, but I'm happy with Allen, AND we got Edmunds. Bills fans should be shitting glitter.

[dlonce]

3 hours ago, Kingston Bills Fan said:

Man he would have been there at 12 for sure 

He would have been gone,either by a lesser trade via Arizona or when Miami picked.

Lastly, the people complaining about this are mostly the people from the old BBMB who know absolutely nothing about what a decent QB looks like.

That includes the guy named Transplantbillsfan,who loved EJ Manuel and Tyrod Taylor. You sir know literally nothing about the QB position.

 

They regurgitate Whatever the prognosticators say. This guys a really,really good QB.

Edited April 27, 2018 by dlonce

[No Cease Fires]

6 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

 McCarron gives Bills the luxury of getting Allen right (unlike what they did to EJ).  

 

All right, I get being optimistic about Allen, but some of you are straight delusional. 

[Joe Miner]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No. Minds are changed in evidence. Once Josh Allen has played some games we will have some evidence. Until that point all we have is people saying "don't say negative things about him now that he is a Bill cos it might hurt his feelings." 

 

Nonsense. I am open to changing my mind on Josh Allen as I am any other football player and I am always the first to say when I got it wrong. But minds should be changed by evidence on the field not by anything else. 

 

 

People change their minds for all sorts of reasons.  Sometimes it's based off of evidence.  I'd suggest people are more likely to change their minds based on emotions.  Just look at this topic.  Most people seemingly didn't want Allen, but now the emotional connection to the Bills has swayed them to change their minds.

 

Doesn't mean that they don't have the right to suggest you change yours.  It also doesn't mean that you can't maintain your opinion until proven wrong (if that happens).

 

 

[xxxxxxxx]

23 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

This organization doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt so I am with you on that.    TPegs has a hockey team that has turned into long term garbage under his watch too.......he has a lot to prove wrt hiring people to run his teams.

 

I wanted Darnold or Rosen then there was a dropoff IMO..........but I am willing to be very optimistic about Allen.      

 

Pegs hired these guys..........they apparently wanted a Cam Newton type beast so there ya' go.    Shouldn't be a surprise.

 

If it doesn't work out........hire an offensive minded HC next time.

Sadly, this is the problem. Pegula gets enamored with a defensive minded coach, who picks a defensive minded GM, and they evaluate QB's as if they were defenders. Allen can probably throw a mean block, but thats not going to help much.

Edited April 27, 2018 by MURPHD6

[MarlinTheMagician]

Anybody notice the size of Allen's hands?  Holy cow!!!   They are like swim fins with thumbs.  I heard he kicked Vita's butt in a bar fight.  

[Big C]

One of the reasons this draft is so interesting is because there was no consensus on these QBs. Every one of these four guys was seen at #1 at some point and all of them have strengths and weaknesses. I was also hoping for Rosen after we moved up, but now hopeful we get the most out of a guy with huge upside and thankful we are coming out of it with an absolutely freak linebacker to boot.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, White Linen said:

 

I'm not sure I understand what the end goal of not following is?  I mean, I get what you're saying - you aren't just going to believe in Allen now because they took him and that's perfectly ok.   Maybe you're just getting your thoughts out?  I'm just saying whether you think that's the outcome or not, beyond just having the debate, has no barring on the outcome.  I was just suggesting to concede a little that they worked hard on the decision and likely have more intel than we do and to find a reason for optimism.  

 

There is no end goal my brain just doesn't work like that. I can't pretend I didn't think things just because it becomes uncomfortable to think them. I have no doubt the Bills worked exceptionally hard on the decision. McDermott and Beane are thorough almost to a fault but that doesn't guarantee they made the right decision. 

 

I will absolutely support Josh Allen but the only way he changes my mind about him is by doing it on the football field. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

1 minute ago, No Cease Fires said:

 

All right, I get being optimistic about Allen, but some of you are straight delusional. 

 

If you think we developed EJ properly THAT is delusional.  Not saying he will ever be a good starting NFL QB, but he was handled VERY badly.  You should see that.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not necessarily saying EJ deserved longer. He didn't the Houston game was benchable, it is the principle of how and when you pull QBs. I'd have ridden out that season and released him at the end of it. 

In the end the result was going to be the same. There is only one cold blooded principle that is followed in this brutal business: Are you good enough. He wasn't. The same line of reasoning applied to Taylor i.e. he wasn't good enough. People had a tendency to make the sentimental argument that he wasn't treated fairly. Ultimately, whether he was treated fairly or not is immaterial because the outcome was going to be the same. It may be harsh but it is the reality. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

Casserly thinks Allen in the right spot, can develop behind AJ.  I think AJ's professionalism will help get Allen right.  It is almost like they signed Mccarron knowing they wanted to draft Allen, and that was likely the case. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Joe Miner said:

 

 

People change their minds for all sorts of reasons.  Sometimes it's based off of evidence.  I'd suggest people are more likely to change their minds based on emotions.  Just look at this topic.  Most people seemingly didn't want Allen, but now the emotional connection to the Bills has swayed them to change their minds.

 

Doesn't mean that they don't have the right to suggest you change yours.  It also doesn't mean that you can't maintain your opinion until proven wrong (if that happens).

 

 

 

Yea. I am not wired that way. I don't change my mind on emotion and to be honest people who do irritate me endlessly. 

 

But I am not to Alpha's concern going to be one of those people freaking out over a ball in the hospitality tent in the first week of camp. Allen is a project and I expect some bumps. 

[White Linen]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There is no end goal my brain just doesn't work like that. I can't pretend I didn't think things just because it becomes uncomfortable to think them. I have no doubt the Bills worked exceptionally hard on the decision. McDermott and Beane are thorough almost to a fault but that doesn't guarantee they made the right decision. 

 

I will absolutely support Josh Allen but the only way he changes my mind about him is by doing it on the football field. 

 

I certainly understand your thoughts.   I appreciate the good conversation.  

 

I'll just leave you with this.  No one predicts the future.  So I'd just like for you as an obvious great fan of the team, to get to a place where you're feeling: maybe I'm wrong vs it's unlikely I'm wrong.  

[The Virginian]

One thing to consider about Josh is that he worked in a pro-style offense at Wyoming.  He went under center and used the five and seven step drop.  He's mobile, athletic, and very hard worker.  Getting to the NFL is a lifetime dream of his.  He's overcome a lot of obstacles to get where he's at including no offers out of high school and only two offers out of junior college.  Fortunately for him and Wyoming, Coach Craig Bohl and his OC Brent Vigen saw something in Josh.  And oh, by the way, they are the same coaches that recruited Carson Wentz to North Dakota State.  Josh is a high character guy which you saw how he owned up to the racially tinged tweets he made in high school, no excuses and his apology was sincere.  He's a great leader.  His teammates at Wyoming loved him and  played hard for him.  And for what's it worth he completed his degree at Wyoming.  As a University of Wyoming alumnus and Cowboys fan, I acknowledge I'm biased.  But believe me, you're getting a good guy and he'll do everything in his power to help his team win. 

[mannc]

2 hours ago, OJABBA said:

Josh Rosen, on getting drafted by the Cardinals: “I dodged getting drafted by the Browns, Jets, AND Bills. I’m the luckiest man on earth.”

 

 

Rosen is a notorious !@#$. He will continue to be an !@#$

 

I'm so glad he wasn't the pick.

Wow.  We’re the ones who dodged a bullet.  What a PoS.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

In the end the result was going to be the same. There is only one cold blooded principle that is followed in this brutal business: Are you good enough. He wasn't. The same line of reasoning applied to Taylor i.e. he wasn't good enough. People had a tendency to make the sentimental argument that he wasn't treated fairly. Ultimately, whether he was treated fairly or not is immaterial because the outcome was going to be the same. It may be harsh but it is the reality. 

 

My argument isn't about fairness. It is about process and principle. The result would have been the same I have zero doubt but the only person who really benefitted from the benching was Doug Marrone. 

[Figster]

20 minutes ago, Dark said:

 

Are the stats invalid?  Or are they more valid than anecdotes like "he played with a lot of bad players at Wyoming, so his completion percentage doesn't matter"? 

 

And the pattern of inaccuracy does matter.  The basis of the critique of those who didn't want Allen was his low completion percentage.  It has been an incredibly consistent predictor of what a QB will do at the next level.  I don't think most fans are raging against Allen because they personally dislike him or want him to fail, it's just that a low completion percentage is a BIG RED FLAG.

I understand the skepticism,

 

Supporting cast however does matter in everything a QB is able to accomplish in my humble opinion.  Josh Allen tries to make the harder throws because he can vs dumping the ball off and his completion percentege suffers because of it.

 

Lets coach this kid up and see what happens.

 

We already know Allen can make every throw he will be asked to make at a very high velocity.

 

Time will tell...

[MarlinTheMagician]

5 minutes ago, OJABBA said:

Today was a GREAT DAY!

 

It went as well as I could have imagined. Darnold was my first choice, but I'm happy with Allen, AND we got Edmunds. Bills fans should be shitting glitter.

 

 

Ding, ding, ding - we have a winner.  But that would be blue collar, lunch pail, working class, Kyle Williams signature glitter.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, mannc said:

Wow.  We’re the ones who dodged a bullet.  What a PoS.

 

What did the last QB that trashed the Bills AFTER being drafted by them do???

 

asking for a friend

[26CornerBlitz]

WHAT NATIONAL ANALYSTS ARE SAYING ABOUT THE BILLS DRAFTING QB JOSH ALLEN

Find out what national analysts have to say about the Bills decision to trade up for Josh Allen.

[Need4speed12000]

6 hours ago, SDS said:

Please post your reaction in this thread only...

I think everyone is getting a little too upset here.......we have A.J. McCarron and Nathan peterman on our roster as qbs. Could this really get any worse??? Josh has the typical size teams drool over, a rocket of an arm, and an incredible upside. Compare his college stats to Brady’s, they are actually better then his and he played in Wyoming where there was no talent surrounding him. I am excited t see what this kid can do. I just wish they could of went for a reciever to help him out with the other first rounder. I don’t think a linebacker was a bigger needed then an offensive lineman or wide receiver. Our defence was actually pretty good last year. We need offensive help. Tyrod wasn’t gonna get us a Super Bowl throwing a measly 14tds a year. Like it or not, this is an improvement as he can fire the ball anywhere he wants. Hell I seen this kid throwing 50 yards from his knees. As for his accuracy problems everyone is complaining about, once again surrounded by no talent. This kid throws the ball where it needs to be, it’s not his problem receivers can’t catch catchable balls...........GO BILLS!!!!!!

[Prickly Pete]

Have people watched him play? I love how he attacks, and plays with fire and confidence. Reminds me of Rothelisberger.

He plays aggressively, and I think his teammates will respond to that.

 

 

Check him out at 1:40..

 

 

[mannc]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

What did the last QB that trashed the Bills AFTER being drafted by them do???

 

asking for a friend

Hey, I liked Rosen a lot too, but he’s an asshat.  F him.

[Teddy KGB]

Oh no.      

 

 

 

We suck again ! 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, White Linen said:

 

I certainly understand your thoughts.   I appreciate the good conversation.  

 

I'll just leave you with this.  No one predicts the future.  So I'd just like for you as an obvious great fan of the team, to get to a place where you're feeling: maybe I'm wrong vs it's unlikely I'm wrong.  

 

Oh there is a chance I am wrong. I always said I thought Allen had a chance to end up a franchise QB - I just think it is a very small chance. I still think that is unlikely to be wrong. We will know more when he gets on the field. I would happily have him sit for a year but I doubt they get that luxury because I don't think AJ is gonna be able to move the offense much. 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, mannc said:

Hey, I liked Rosen a lot too, but he’s an asshat.  F him.

 

Just asking for a friend. Think that guy is in the HOF inst he?

[MarlinTheMagician]

Josh Allen once nearly killed a grown umpire with a fastball in a 10 and under youth baseball game.  Was like a gunshot.  Josh carried him two miles to the hospital and the ump was saved.

 

[Prickly Pete]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

Wow.  We’re the ones who dodged a bullet.  What a PoS.

 

I have to put a disclaimer on this (or Fridge will have me sued for slander). This was a fake Twitter quote. I already disavowed. 

But there are plenty of reasons to think that Rosen is not well liked by people around him in LA.

[No Cease Fires]

6 minutes ago, mannc said:

Hey, I liked Rosen a lot too, but he’s an asshat.  F him.

 

He actually didn't say those things. That's a joke twitter account. 

[Joe Miner]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea. I am not wired that way. I don't change my mind on emotion and to be honest people who do irritate me endlessly. 

 

But I am not to Alpha's concern going to be one of those people freaking out over a ball in the hospitality tent in the first week of camp. Allen is a project and I expect some bumps. 

 

 

I expect many bumps.  I actually hope they don't have to play him this year.  If he starts this year, I really hope it's because he earns it and not because AJ is worse than I think he will be.

 

Getting drafted by the Bills doesn't/shouldn't erase doubts (heck if you look at history, it should probably increase them), it just allows room for hope.

 

But I don't think AJ is good, and I have concerns about Allen as well.  I don't begrudge anyone objectively criticizing him.  But I do get irritated by those that feel it necessary to continually **** on everything the Bills do (I don't believe you are in that camp).

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Just asking for a friend. Think that guy is in the HOF inst he?

JK did not say anything as obnoxious as that.  Not even close