What I Don't Understand About Fan Reaction to Allen

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Browns and Jets took Mayfield and Darnold.

Rosen was the most NFL ready.

They felt the others had higher ceilings, or less injury risk, with the second being the most likely.

Broncos too Chubb because he's a beast and they look to be committed to rolling the dice with keenum.

 

My statement was in reference to our pick vs Rosen.

 

No the dolphins couldn't have "easily secured" Rosen.

Did they have two seconds to give up to beat our offer?

Did they match Arizona's offer to Oakland?

Saying they passed on Rosen when he was taken before them is just flat out wrong.

More than likely they thought he would fall one more spot and Arizona jumped them.

 

And for what it's worth Steve Keim??? He is pretty shrewd. 

[Magox]

Just now, SouthNYfan said:

 

Browns and Jets took Mayfield and Darnold.

Rosen was the most NFL ready.

They felt the others had higher ceilings, or less injury risk, with the second being the most likely.

Broncos too Chubb because he's a beast and they look to be committed to rolling the dice with keenum.

 

My statement was in reference to our pick vs Rosen.

 

No the dolphins couldn't have "easily secured" Rosen.

Did they have two seconds to give up to beat our offer?

Did they match Arizona's offer to Oakland?

Saying they passed on Rosen when he was taken before them is just flat out wrong.

More than likely they thought he would fall one more spot and Arizona jumped them.

Again, all the teams I mentioned passed on him.  And the Dolphins clearly didn't like him enough to secure him.  If a GM thinks there is a franchise qb to be had and they just sit and wait hoping he falls to your pick then it means one of three things

 

A) you didn't have the draft capital to get him, which clearly wasn't the case here.

 

B) the GM is incompetent for deploying hope as a strategy to get their franchise QB

 

C) they didn't believe in him enough to secure him.  Which is the most likely scenario

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, T-Bomb said:

 

And fans like you are simply useless tbh...

 

No matter what dumbass FO this organization hires, you just sit there with your thumb up your ass, drinking the KoolAid, assuming the FO can do no wrong, because they are "your Bills".  Whatever colossal draft mistake they make, you'll support it in lemming-like fashion,  It's pathetic.

 

Loser fans deserve a loser franchise I guess...

 

Are you going to go thread to thread and ruin every topic just so you can make sure everyone on the site knows you're unhappy with the Allen pick?

 

It's users like you who used to get the permaban in quick order.  You bring absolutely nothing of value to this site.  I hope a purge is coming soon.

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

No.  Because he averaged 164 yards per game with a 56% completion percentage in the Mountain West Conference.

In 2016 with a better team around him he averaged 228.7 yards a game and he could have entered the draft at the end of that year. Instead, he stayed at the school he knew he was going to have great troubles with.

 

In 2017 every player that had touched the ball at Wyoming in 2016 was no longer with the team. This kid was forced to play with a complete noob team in running for his life every other play and his receiver corps had to learn as they went. His O line was bad as were his RBs, wideouts. Not much of a run game so this kid was forced to do it mostly by himself. Those receivers got very little separation and didn't run routes very well besides dropping a lot of passes. Allen would zip a fastball into a receivers hands in the end zone only to see them drop it. 

 

If that wasn't bad enough Allen played in a pro-style deep passing scheme that wasn't QB friendly like it was for Baker Mayfield* and Rosen with 4x as many screens and outs that made their stats look so much better. 

 

Josh Allen only played two years in college had has room to further develop as so many college QB's improve their completion percentage over a four-year career. Allen is a winner who had back to back 8 win seasons and won his last bowl game with a team of scrubs around him. 

 

https://clutchpoints.com/nfl-draft-news-josh-allen-thinks-inaccuracy-talk-blown-proportion/

 

On another note. Whoever released those old tweets from Allen when he was 15 years old did the Buffalo Bills a huge favor as the kid dropped far enough so the Bills could move up to get him!

Think of it as almost every Bills fan in this forum wanted the Bills to trade up to the #2 spot for (Mr. Glass), Josh Rosen by giving up two #1s, two #2s, two #3s and some even wanted the Bills to give up three first rounders for him. 

 

The Bills got two blue-chip players in the first round in 2018 and has someone else so aptly put it...they should be crapping glitter! 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Nihilarian

[BeginnersMind]

Bill—the Internet allows the small scared person to fee big and criticize people who *do,* and not just criticize, but do it in a way that makes them look ugly. 

 

The Bills fan base held out a long time not turning into the rest of the fan bases, with a higher level of optimism, collegiality, and respect. 

 

I hope the fans will come around. Not on Allen, but just as people. As the last to give in, I believe they can be the first to recover. But it will take time. 

 

I share all the concerns about Allen. But it’s not like they drafted Ray Allen or Alan Alda. They picked a consensus top ten pick. Hard working. Smart. Beloved teammate. I like the upside. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. Someone gets paid to make that decision. My family and life won’t be affected by a bad pick except for Sunday afternoons in the fall!

 

1 hour ago, T-Bomb said:

 

And fans like you are simply useless tbh...

 

No matter what dumbass FO this organization hires, you just sit there with your thumb up your ass, drinking the KoolAid, assuming the FO can do no wrong, because they are "your Bills".  Whatever colossal draft mistake they make, you'll support it in lemming-like fashion,  It's pathetic.

 

Loser fans deserve a loser franchise I guess...

 

This guy is a case study. He’s probably better than this and can be a better person starting right now!

Edited April 27, 2018 by BeginnersMind

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Opinions run the spectrum here and the only thing that will resolve the debate is going to be actual playing time under center in NFL game situations.  We may or may not see a lot of that with Allen this year.  But if Bills fans are upset at the pick what about Browns and Jets?  Their GM's also passed on the "most NFL ready QB" at picks 1 and 3.  All three front offices and coaching staffs put in countless hours of effort checking these guys inside-out.  So what do fans see that 3 teams of professionals do not? 

 

Personally I would have taken Rosen too but my knowledge is limited to him passing the eye test.  I watched a couple UCLA games and saw some highlight films.  Never spoke to him, or his coaches, or anyone with direct knowledge about the guy.  

 

Rosen is the most NFL ready.

Every scout agrees on that from what I've seen, go research it.

Darnold is expected to sit a year most likely, and most half a year.

Mayfield has very real education incoming to learn pro offenses, and his front office also just drafted a cb @#4 who wasn't even the top rated cb by most, when they could have snagged him a couple picks later. The browns front office is not a good barometer of what was done being correct.

 

Rosen has a very real and risky injury history, between his shoulder and his concussions, taking a guy that high who's been hurt as often as him reeks of Bradford, so I'm not terribly upset they passed on him, but I'm not terribly happy about it either, since Allen is risky too in regards to development. They swung for the fences, and every draft guy had him as the highest bust chance.

 

His busy potential was why I called it "billsy", and I used it to illustrate my joking point regarding previous regime ineptitudes.

This is a new front office, so I'm willing to give them a shot.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 Because guys with tons of potential who didn’t do much in college have already been drafted as the future of this franchise. It hasn’t worked out any of those times in the past. 

[Forward Progress]

Yesterday morning, I had no feelings for Josh Allen.  Today, he is the quarterback of the Buffalo Bills, and that makes him my favourite quarterback in the league. I will cheer for him to succeed every time he dons a Bills jersey and steps on the field. 

[Kemp]

I would have thought that all fans are tired of hearing yeah he's got some accuracy issues, but we can fix that.

 

If you're inaccurate in college and are now facing bigger, faster, and smarter players, things will get better.

 

Now we know this regime has zero belief in analytics. They FEEL that things will be okay.

[jkirchofer]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

I have been on this wonderful board for many, many years. Now, I am reading these posts that are absolutely hating the Allen pick and it is hard to understand why. Almost every season, I was on this board blasting yet another idiotic first round pick by the Bills. For instance:  A #8 (in a stacked draft) on an undersized Donte Whitner? How about a 1st on a half dead Willis McGahee? In 2008 we had a very poor OL. It was awful. We drafted Leotis McKelvin, passing up both Ryan Clady and Branden Albert.

 

I could go on and on but my point is that fans were generally supportive of these clearly stupid picks. Now, we finally use resources on a big, strong quarterback and most people seem to hate the kid. Why? Because he said stupid things when he was a toddler? Because he went to a small school?

 

After what seemed like forever, we took a chance on solidifying the most important position on the field. We moved up to make sure we landed a qb with a cannon arm. What is SO freaking bad?

 

I for one am glad that we did something smart (for a change) in round 1, and welcome this young man to Buffalo.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Two things: he has never been good at any level and he knew what he was saying in those tweets. Don't make excuses for him, he will have to prove himself. Until he does, this was a terrible pick. 

[JM57]

2 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

In 2016 with a better team around him he averaged 228.7 yards a game and he could have entered the draft at the end of that year. Instead, he stayed at the school he knew he was going to have great troubles with.

 

In 2017 every player that had touched the ball at Wyoming in 2016 was no longer with the team. This kid was forced to play with a complete noob team in running for his life every other play and his receiver corps had to learn as they went. His O line was bad as were his RBs, wideouts. Not much of a run game so this kid was forced to do it mostly by himself. Those receivers got very little separation and didn't run routes very well besides dropping a lot of passes. Allen would zip a fastball into a receivers hands in the end zone only to see them drop it. 

 

If that wasn't bad enough Allen played in a pro-style deep passing scheme that wasn't QB friendly like it was for Wakefield and Rosen with 4x as many screens and outs that made their stats look so much better. 

 

Josh Allen only played two years in college had has room to further develop as so many college QB's improve their completion percentage over a four-year career. Allen is a winner who had back to back 8 win seasons and won his last bowl game with a team of scrubs around him. 

 

https://clutchpoints.com/nfl-draft-news-josh-allen-thinks-inaccuracy-talk-blown-proportion/

 

On another note. Whoever released those old tweets from Allen when he was 15 years old did the Buffalo Bills a huge favor as the kid dropped far enough so the Bills could move up to get him!

Think of it as almost every Bills fan in this forum wanted the Bills to trade up to the #2 spot for (Mr. Glass), Josh Rosen by giving up two #1s, two #2s, two #3s and some even wanted the Bills to give up three first rounders for him. 

 

The Bills got two blue-chip players in the first round in 2018 and has someone else so aptly put it...they should be crapping glitter! 

Oh wow 228.7 yards per game, in the illustrious Mountain West Conference! Well I guess that swings it then. 

 

The Bills took a project QB with major accuracy and processing problems. Those are two traits in QBs that very often improve marginally, if at all. Look through scouting report after scouting report and you see the same things. Accuracy issues. Sloppy footwork. Inconsistent mechanics. Lack of anticipatory throws.

 

He has some traits that are reminiscent of Big Ben or Stafford, such as the ability to bounce off contact and not take a sack, but doesn't read a defense like they do. His most common comparisons are a ceiling of Jay Cutler and a floor of Kyle Boller. Knowing what you know about Cutler's career, would you spend the #7 pick and two #2s on him? I sure as hell wouldn't. 

[Greywolf]

I wish people wouldn't respond to others' thoughts on these subjects with versions of "so, you think you know more than pro scouts and coaches?"

 

C'mon, we all know that none of us are pros. This is just a fan forum and folks like to give their thoughts on Bills-related issues the same way we do over beers with friends. We don't have to be pro scouts to have some fun.

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, jkirchofer said:

Two things: he has never been good at any level and he knew what he was saying in those tweets. Don't make excuses for him, he will have to prove himself. Until he does, this was a terrible pick. 

Wrong. He was a kid reciting rap songs and jokes. If you are still stuck on a 15 year olds tweets that’s on you and not on him.

[SouthNYfan]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And for what it's worth Steve Keim??? He is pretty shrewd. 

 

Yes he is.

Word was they wanted Allen so that's why we paid up to secure him.

5 minutes ago, Magox said:

Again, all the teams I mentioned passed on him.  And the Dolphins clearly didn't like him enough to secure him.  If a GM thinks there is a franchise qb to be had and they just sit and wait hoping he falls to your pick then it means one of three things

 

A) you didn't have the draft capital to get him, which clearly wasn't the case here.

 

B) the GM is incompetent for deploying hope as a strategy to get their franchise QB

 

C) they didn't believe in him enough to secure him.  Which is the most likely scenario

 

Again, go read what you quoted of mine.

I clearly explained why the Jets and browns passed on him, as well as my statement about it being him vs Allen for us being my point at our spot.

Rosen was the most NFL ready, but has a huge injury question mark.

The dolphins front office has been inept for a long time, so B is the most likely scenario for them.

They more than likely freely he would drop one more spot, or they were balling the other teams.

[Coach Tuesday]

The issue is RISK.

 

Is this an organization that can afford to take a big risk at the QB position?

 

I say it isn’t.  Safer options were available, like trading likely fewer assets for the guy who just won the Super Bowl, or drafting the guy whose stats actually project a safer path to success (Rosen).

 

Or hedging that big risk by holding onto your current starter for one more year while your risky developmental pick learns.

 

Beane took a big risk and I think it’s not the right strategy for a franchise that hasn’t had a pro passing game since the early 1990’s.

[jkirchofer]

Just now, Commonsense said:

Wrong. He was a kid reciting rap songs and jokes. If you are still stuck on a 15 year olds tweets that’s on you and not on him.

All I am saying is if you continue to make excuses for him he will never understand why it was wrong and he will never grow. 

[JM57]

4 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Wrong. He was a kid reciting rap songs and jokes. If you are still stuck on a 15 year olds tweets that’s on you and not on him.

Lyrics or not anyone with a functioning brain in their head at 15 years old knows you don't use certain words.

[What a Tuel]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The issue is RISK.

 

Is this an organization that can afford to take a big risk at the QB position?

 

I say it isn’t.  Safer options were available, like trading likely fewer assets for the guy who just won the Super Bowl, or drafting the guy whose stats actually project a safer path to success (Rosen).

 

Or hedging that big risk by holding onto your current starter for one more year while your risky developmental pick learns.

 

Beane took a big risk and I think it’s not the right strategy for a franchise that hasn’t had a pro passing game since the early 1990’s.

 

I'd agree with that but a lot of experts were saying Rosen was sliding for a reason. Is that not a risk as well?

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The issue is RISK.

 

Is this an organization that can afford to take a big risk at the QB position?

 

I say it isn’t.  Safer options were available, like trading likely fewer assets for the guy who just won the Super Bowl, or drafting the guy whose stats actually project a safer path to success (Rosen).

 

Or hedging that big risk by holding onto your current starter for one more year while your risky developmental pick learns.

 

Beane took a big risk and I think it’s not the right strategy for a franchise that hasn’t had a pro passing game since the early 1990’s.

If they had come out of this draft without drafting a QB you would have been first in line blasting them for that.

[Wayne Arnold]

8 minutes ago, Greywolf said:

I wish people wouldn't respond to others' thoughts on these subjects with versions of "so, you think you know more than pro scouts and coaches?"

 

C'mon, we all know that none of us are pros. This is just a fan forum and folks like to give their thoughts on Bills-related issues the same way we do over beers with friends. We don't have to be pro scouts to have some fun.

 

The overwhelming majority knows more than pro scouts and coaches. Always has.

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

 

I could go on and on but my point is that fans were generally supportive of these clearly stupid picks. Now, we finally use resources on a big, strong quarterback and most people seem to hate the kid. Why? Because he said stupid things when he was a toddler? Because he went to a small school?

 

After what seemed like forever, we took a chance on solidifying the most important position on the field. We moved up to make sure we landed a qb with a cannon arm. What is SO freaking bad?

 

I for one am glad that we did something smart (for a change) in round 1, and welcome this young man to Buffalo.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It wasn't smart. It was the dumbest move imaginable.

 

You may be too young to remember Ben Roethlisberger in college. He also played in a non-power conference. He absolutely dominated. Annihilated his competition. Led Miami of Ohio to a Top 15 national ranking. That's who Allen should have been if he was worthy of a Top 10 pick. But Allen wasn't even close to that.