LOLmar Jackson

[The Frankish Reich]

5 hours ago, Skins Malone said:

Once brady is gone so is BB.  That franchise will be completely different.

 

It took me a second to get that lol.  And unfortunately some people think that way

Yeah, and I agree. This draft is bringing out the worst in some people, between this and it's polar opposite, the "Josh Rosen is a spoiled rich kid" comments. They're both damn good football players, and if I was under this kind of scrutiny when I was 21 years old I don't think I would have come off nearly as good as either of them on the "character issues."

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I was one of the biggest Watson fans, I wanted us to draft him so badly. LOLmar and Watson should never be mentioned in the same post, Watson is a 1,000 times better passer. 25 fumbles in college is rediculously bad, in the NFL I bet you can double that number.

 

OK so 24 (per source I found) or 8 per year is ridiculously bad.  Therefore Darnold (10 per year) is beyond ridiculously bad, and Rosen with 7 per year is questionable.

I think we should worry about Allen too with 6.5 per year. 

 

Thanks for clarifying the status of this year's QB draft picks. 

[PIZ]

Put this another thread, but it's relevant here too....

 

The closer we get to draft day, the more I think this is the guy.  He could end up being awesome.  The lack of info about private workouts, interest, rumors linking Bills and Jackson reinforces that even more.  

 

Josh Allen is hyped so much, but Lamar Jackson is probably the better player, and probably a better fit for Daboll.

 

Was he one of the 30 predraft visits?

 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think he’s going to be awesome. I pray he isn’t in our division.

It's not inconceivable that two or three years down the road that he turns out to be the best qb in the draft. I'm not saying that he will but I am saying that he is talented enough to be considered in the discussion of a candidate to be. 

 

As it stands I'm open to a variety of routes as to how the Bills address the qb position. If they  stand pat and draft Jackson and keep their picks it would be a reasonable approach to take. Lamar isn't my first choice in qbs but he would be considered a reasonable pick. 

[Bill_with_it]

I dont think hes going to be the next Vick or Wilson, but let the kid throw the football once or twice in the league before calling him a bust.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Bill_with_it

[YoloinOhio]

13 minutes ago, PIZ said:

Put this another thread, but it's relevant here too....

 

The closer we get to draft day, the more I think this is the guy.  He could end up being awesome.  The lack of info about private workouts, interest, rumors linking Bills and Jackson reinforces that even more.  

 

Josh Allen is hyped so much, but Lamar Jackson is probably the better player, and probably a better fit for Daboll.

 

Was he one of the 30 predraft visits?

 

No. I really don’t think they are interested in him. They only sent one scout to one of his games. Beane never went to see him play. The only private meeting they have had with him is at the combine . I’m not even sure if Beane and McD were at his pro day or if it was Terrance Gray, but the only private meetings he had there were with the Chargers and Titans.  The Bills appear to have  met him for a grand total of 15 minutes. I just don’t think they would base the biggest decision of their careers on such little info. 

Edited April 22, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[The Frankish Reich]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

No. I really don’t think they are interested in him. They only sent one scout to one of his games. Beane never went to see him play. The only meeting they have had with him is at the combine and whatever may have occurred at his pro day. I’m not even sure if Beane and McD were at his pro day or if it was Terrance Gray.  They may have  met him for a grand total of 15 minutes. I just don’t think they would base the biggest decision of their careers on such little info. 

Thanks for the info. That's .... too bad. I wouldn't take him over any of the Big 4, but I would take a flyer on him at 12 sooner than I'd take a flyer on Rudolph at 22 or one of the lesser guys (White, Falk, Lauletta) in the 2nd or 3rd.

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Thanks for the info. That's .... too bad. I wouldn't take him over any of the Big 4, but I would take a flyer on him at 12 sooner than I'd take a flyer on Rudolph at 22 or one of the lesser guys (White, Falk, Lauletta) in the 2nd or 3rd.

Definitely 

[wppete]

5 hours ago, QBorBust2018 said:

Hopefully the dolphins or patriots select this bust ! ??

 

Heisman trophy winner last year and runner up this year. Bust? We better hope Lamar is not playing in the AFC East next year. 

[The Frankish Reich]

3 minutes ago, wppete said:

 

Heisman trophy winner last year and runner up this year. Bust? We better hope Lamar is not playing in the AFC East next year. 

Agreed.  I can't see how people don't think he is a better prospect than Watson was last year. Is it just that this is a much deeper QB draft? I'd be disappointed if we have to "settle" for him at 12, but really ... this is a very intriguing QB with tremendous talent and a proven record of success in college, and there's a reasonably good chance that he'll be an excellent NFL QB. It's not like you'd be taking EJ Manuel in the mid-first round ....

Edited April 22, 2018 by The Frankish Reich

[YoloinOhio]

12 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Agreed.  I can't see how people don't think he is a better prospect than Watson was last year. Is it just that this is a much deeper QB draft? I'd be disappointed if we have to "settle" for him at 12, but really ... this is a very intriguing QB with tremendous talent and a proven record of success in college, and there's a reasonably good chance that he'll be an excellent NFL QB. It's not like you'd be taking EJ Manuel in the mid-first round ....

Yes. If Lamar had returned to school this year, he is the #1 QB in the 2019 draft and a top 5 pick. Imo it’s just the deepest QB draft , in terms of 1st rd prospects, in the last 35 years. 

Edited April 22, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[The Frankish Reich]

9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yes. If Lamar had returned to school this year, he is the #1 QB in the 2019 draft and a top 5 pick. Imo it’s just the deepest QB draft , in terms of 1st rd prospects, in the last 35 years. 

Wow, you're putting it above the 2004 class! Or maybe you're not counting JP Losman as a "1st round prospect"

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Wow, you're putting it above the 2004 class! Or maybe you're not counting JP Losman as a "1st round prospect"

Prospects. 1983 had 6 QBs go in the 1st rd, and that’s a record, probably until this year.

[Gugny]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Just stop. 

He's not the top-3 QB on my personal QB draft board, and I'd rather the Bills pick someone else, but calling a kid a "bust" before he even gets drafted is dumb and giving him a dumb taunting nickname just makes you look like a petty bully, the 6th grade "mean girl" of TBD or something.

 

 

13

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

13

You know nobody is really paying attention this this even though you keep paroting it right?

56 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yes. If Lamar had returned to school this year, he is the #1 QB in the 2019 draft and a top 5 pick. Imo it’s just the deepest QB draft , in terms of 1st rd prospects, in the last 35 years. 

THis is my feeling as well......if we ended up drafting him my viewpoint is he would be the best qb coming out NEXT year but we got him a year early so he could hold the clipboard for a year and work on his throwing mechanics.

 

He is not my top choice....but I would definately not consider the draft a failure if we kept our picks and came away with Lamar Jackson.

[Gugny]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

You know nobody is really paying attention this this even though you keep paroting it right?

 

Decent GMs are paying attention, John.  Believe me.  I don't even know if this kid could win a game of Connect Four, let alone lead an NFL offense.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

Decent GMs are paying attention, John.  Believe me.  I don't even know if this kid could win a game of Connect Four, let alone lead an NFL offense.

So you talk to decent NFL GM's?   I didnt realize you were so connected Gug...:)

 

This is why he is getting mocked as high as 12 to us or 15 to the cards.....cuz you know....reasons.

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

So you talk to decent NFL GM's?   I didnt realize you were so connected Gug...:)

 

This is why he is getting mocked as high as 12 to us or 15 to the cards.....cuz you know....reasons.

 

As I've said before ... the team whose GM chooses Lamar Jackson in the first round deserves to suck for eternity.

 

I do believe Beane is a lot smarter.  Thank God.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

As I've said before ... the team whose GM chooses Lamar Jackson in the first round deserves to suck for eternity.

 

I do believe Beane is a lot smarter.  Thank God.

So your not connected to NFL GM"s?

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

So your not connected to NFL GM"s?

 

I'm only connected to you, baby.  You know this. 

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I'm only connected to you, baby.  You know this. 

LOL

 

My first choice is Rosen....lets hope the bills find a way to make both of us happy

[NoSaint]

21 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

So you talk to decent NFL GM's?   I didnt realize you were so connected Gug...:)

 

This is why he is getting mocked as high as 12 to us or 15 to the cards.....cuz you know....reasons.

 

Do you really think theres zero red flag with that score?

[Gugny]

11 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

LOL

 

My first choice is Rosen....lets hope the bills find a way to make both of us happy

 

He's my first choice, too!  Can you imagine, after all these years, if you and I actually AGREE on a QB???

[John from Riverside]

Just now, NoSaint said:

 

Do you really think theres zero red flag with that score?

I dont think it means a damn thing

 

The kid can flat play footall.....and if he couldnt he would not be running a pro style offense in college....which he is

Just now, Gugny said:

 

He's my first choice, too!  Can you imagine, after all these years, if you and I actually AGREE on a QB???

I might get hit with a flying pig.....but you know what....I DONT CARE.....first beer is on me...:)

[NoSaint]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I dont think it means a damn thing

 

The kid can flat play footall.....and if he couldnt he would not be running a pro style offense in college....which he is

I might get hit with a flying pig.....but you know what....I DONT CARE.....first beer is on me...:)

 

Best case scenario his mom didn’t prep him properly.... and if you read that 3 times and think it’s not worrisome i don’t know what to tell you.

 

worst case is he’s either very low IQ, has a noteworthy learning disability (not insurmountable) or just didn’t care.

 

i know you make up your mind and dig in til the bitter end no matter what comes out.... but this is a major red flag and a team needs to be able to answer why it happened and why it won’t happen in their system before taking him. Some might believe they have it, and others may not care... but any good GM needs to know both answers to pull that trigger.  Sorry to call you a bad gm John.

[KOKBILLS]

I know this much about Jackson...

 

There are a few online "scouts" that I really trust...Down to the last one, and much to my surprise, they all have Jackson in their Top 4 QB's minimum...It seems like every day I hear someone heaping praise on Jackson when I'm fully expecting the opposite...In the on-the-field areas I hear less-than-knowledgeable amateur hacks try to knock Jackson, the folks I trust pick those opinions apart...And they have the film study and analytics to back it up...I'm uncertain why he scored so low on the test, I do know that according to the people I trust he has very little problem understanding what he is supposed to do on the football field as a QB...And while I hear plenty of excuses for the kid with the rocket arm it was Jackson who had the highest percentage of his passes dropped out of the top 6 QB's in this Draft...

 

I've said all along this process I would be OK with any of the top 5 QB's...And I think Rudolph could be fine with the right system and patience...They all have strengths, they all have work to do to become good NFL starters...Each one is a unique project...I prefer Mayfield to all of them, followed by Darnold...But Jackson is my QB3...And considering it's more than likely the Bills can sit at #12, take Jackson, and keep ALL their picks...well...it's hard to argue against that IMHO...

 

We'll see...It would take serious stones to sit put and take Jackson...That's for certain...But I can honestly say I'm OK with it...

[John from Riverside]

Just now, NoSaint said:

 

Best case scenario his mom didn’t prep him properly.... and if you read that 3 times and think it’s not worrisome i don’t know what to tell you.

 

worst case is he’s either very low IQ, has a noteworthy learning disability (not insurmountable) or just didn’t care.

 

i know you make up your mind and dig in til the bitter end no matter what comes out.... but this is a major red flag and a team needs to be able to answer why it happened and why it won’t happen in their system before taking him. Some might believe they have it, and others may not care... but any good GM needs to know both answers to pull that trigger.  Sorry to call you a bad gm John.

momma......dont care about because it has nothing to do with football

low IQ....as long as it doesnt affect football play (which it does not appear to) I dont care

Some team is going to take a chance on him in the first round......he is extremely talented.....he falls into the pick range that doesnt require giving up picks

Any good gm will weigh ALL options including the fact that the team also needs WR's OL, LB's, an eventual Shady replacement etc.   You cannot totally biuld your team through free agency that does not work just ask the redskins.

 

A good GM weighs all this......not just a fans wants of a shiny new toy.   As I have stated MANY times....I believe that Josh Rosen is a franchise guy....and when you can you get a guy like that IF YOU CAN.   If things go wrong in the draft we cannot be left sucking our thumbs not knowing what to do next......past the top 3 Jackson has the most talent, has gotten better every year, and has the highest upside.

[njbuff]

Very invigorating thread.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

13

 

1) It's been pointed out before that supposedly, 50% of leaked Wonderlic scores are incorrect.

2) If you can tell me how Jackson did in film and whiteboard sessions during team interviews, and the news is bad, I wouldn't want him

 

If you can explain to me how that Wonderlic test has any direct relevance to the skills needed to be an effective NFL QB AND if the 13 is a real score, might mean something.  But you can't, because it really doesn't.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Bing Bong]

It's LOLmar folks. Get it right.

[greeneblitz]

wonderlic 13, nothing more needs to be said, he's a dummy.

 

[Fadingpain]

12 hours ago, Skins Malone said:

How do you know he will be a bust?  Hes not my favorite but calling someone a bust before they through their first nfl pass??? Rosen could be a bust as well.  We just dont know.  

I don't know that he will bust, but I know he is dumber than dirt, and you need to be smart in certain ways to be a good QB in today's NFL.

 

 

[Skins Malone]

8 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Agreed.  I can't see how people don't think he is a better prospect than Watson was last year. Is it just that this is a much deeper QB draft? I'd be disappointed if we have to "settle" for him at 12, but really ... this is a very intriguing QB with tremendous talent and a proven record of success in college, and there's a reasonably good chance that he'll be an excellent NFL QB. It's not like you'd be taking EJ Manuel in the mid-first round ....

 

2 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

I don't know that he will bust, but I know he is dumber than dirt, and you need to be smart in certain ways to be a good QB in today's NFL.

 

 

Really? Do you know his SAT scores...hes GPA in college? Im not saying hes a genius but calling a guy dumber then dirt from literally one test score is a little extreme.

[Gigs]

15 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

 

Because

Lamar

Always

Cuddles

Kittens some people will never like him.

Couldn’t agree more. People should watch his highlights. Not my top QB choice, but I wouldn’t be mad. Just needs a year or two and hopefully AJ doesn’t slip on a mat. 

 

But people will unjustly peg him because of who he is instead of what he can do. 

3 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

I don't know that he will bust, but I know he is dumber than dirt, and you need to be smart in certain ways to be a good QB in today's NFL.

 

 

Yes, just like Greg McElroy and HoFer Ryan Fitzpatrick; highest wonderlics for QBs. If you go down the list you got barn burners like Blaine Gabbert and Drew Henson, or Jason Maas.

 

? Great QBs because of the high wonderlic scores ? The greatest ? 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Gigs

[Gugny]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

1) It's been pointed out before that supposedly, 50% of leaked Wonderlic scores are incorrect.

2) If you can tell me how Jackson did in film and whiteboard sessions during team interviews, and the news is bad, I wouldn't want him

 

If you can explain to me how that Wonderlic test has any direct relevance to the skills needed to be an effective NFL QB AND if the 13 is a real score, might mean something.  But you can't, because it really doesn't.

 

 

 

I'd be happy to.  Since 2000, every QB who has scored less than 16 on the Wonderlic has gone onto a less-than-successful NFL career.

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I'd be happy to.  Since 2000, every QB who has scored less than 16 on the Wonderlic has gone onto a less-than-successful NFL career.

 

Yeah but there's barely been any QBs that scored that low so the sample size is too small to make definitive conclusions. 13 is crazy low. I almost have to think Jackson has a learning disability. For example if he has dyslexia that would make the test impossible to judge his intelligence on (15% of Americans have dyslexia so this isn't all that unlikely). If I was a team wanting to draft Jackson I would look into that and give more weight to his white board interviews. If he struggled there that would make me wary, but if not the wonderlic test wouldn't factor into my decision at all. Football IQ and normal IQ aren't necessarily related. I mean it's very possible he's just plain dumb and his career will suffer as a result but that's not conclusive from the wonderlic score alone.

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah but there's barely been any QBs that scored that low so the sample size is too small to make definitive conclusions. 13 is crazy low. I almost have to think Jackson has a learning disability. For example if he has dyslexia that would make the test impossible to judge his intelligence on (15% of Americans have dyslexia so this isn't all that unlikely). If I was a team wanting to draft Jackson I would look into that and give more weight to his white board interviews. If he struggled there that would make me wary, but if not the wonderlic test wouldn't factor into my decision at all. Football IQ and normal IQ aren't necessarily related. I mean it's very possible he's just plain dumb and his career will suffer as a result but that's not conclusive from the wonderlic score alone.

 

I'll put on my serious hat for a moment:  He might be dumber than a box of rocks and he may not be.  I'm not saying that a score of 13 means that somebody is stupid.  I'm saying that a score of 13 means that someone will NOT be a good NFL QB.  I don't know this cat from my elbow. My guess is that no one on this site does.  So I'm not going to come out and say he's stupid.  I've come across MANY people in my lifetime who were not academic all-stars, but were very intelligent people.  I do stand by the 16 "line in the sand," as far as the Wonderlic/eventual NFL QB success is concerned.  Whether he's dumb, or it just takes him longer to process, or he just didn't take the time to prepare .... regardless of the reason .... he scored too low for me to want him to be on the Bills as a QB.

[Deadstroke]

10 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

As I've said before ... the team whose GM chooses Lamar Jackson in the first round deserves to suck for eternity.

 

I do believe Beane is a lot smarter.  Thank God.

i have to remember "Gugny"......Pretty dumb commentary!

[Spiderweb]

18 hours ago, Skins Malone said:

How do you know he will be a bust?  Hes not my favorite but calling someone a bust before they through their first nfl pass??? Rosen could be a bust as well.  We just dont know.  

While this is all very true, after watching him the past two years, I believe I saw a great athlete and exciting college QB. But I have a hard time believing his skills (running) will translate well in the NFL with any consistency over time.

[purple haze]

11 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

Do you really think theres zero red flag with that score?

Jim Kelly, 15.  Dan Marino, 16.  Donovan McNabb, 14.  Fitz, 48.  Blaine Gabbert, 42.  Greg McElroy, 48.

 

ZERO red flags.  Does.  Not.  Matter.

if Jackson cannot diagnose plays and defenses THAT would be a problem.  Any football related questions on that Wonderlic test?