Albert Breer's new mock

[Putin]

22 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

Rosen is a bust. 

I hope Jets get Rosen 

[TH3]

23 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

This is the #1 reason we need a dome so Bills GMs would stop worrying about arm strength so much. 

What about the away games?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

47 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Agreed. 

 

I think the Giants want Barkley. If he's gone, they'll try to trade down a couple spots and get Nelson. To trade down to 12 I think they'll need us to give up the "farm". 

 

I would if I were them, I’d take him. 

 

With beckham back at least one more season and him. Add some line talent.  With Barkley they may be able to give the eagles a run for the NFC east.  

Edited March 21, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[MAJBobby]

Sub 60% college QBs do not succeed in modern NFL

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

 

Again, context.  There is a difference between hitting a target and knowing where that target should be.  Both have an impact on "accuracy," though...Luke Falk is considered accurate because he is a great anticipatory thrower, for example.  But it was clear that all things being equal he cant hit the broad side of a barn, especially at distance.

 

And I am pretty sure there is a defense at the senior bowl.  Those scouting reports said Josh Allen doesn't have touch, but at the senior bowl he made a perfect bucket throw for a TD.  

 

Yes, you have to project a guy like Josh Allen.  That's the NFL front office guys job...But it's not like he came out of nowhere.  He's been on the radar for two years despite the fact that he was playing at a garbage school.  If he really was as inaccurate as you claim, there's no way that happens.

 

Inaccurate QBs get drafted in the first round all the time, and they all bust. 

 

Just because someone is a first round pick doesn't mean they're any good. 

 

EJ Manuel looked great at the Senior Bowl. Colossal bust in the NFL. 

Jake Locker looked good at the Senior Bowl. Colossal bust in the NFL. 

 

Guys with accuracy problems don't succeed in the NFL. There hasn't been a guy with accuracy problems to become a Franchise QB in at least the past 20 years. 

EJ Manuel, Jake Locker, Josh Freeman, JP Losman, Kyle Boller. The list of strong, mobile, big armed QBs who flamed out in the NFL is long and full of nothing bust guys who were complete busts. 

Accuracy is the most important trait when it comes to being a successful NFL QB. I have no idea why NFL scouts continuously ignore it, but Allen doesn't have adequate accuracy to become a top QB. 

[Mikey152]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

Sub 60% college QBs do not succeed in modern NFL

 

That's a blanket statement...I would agree that a sub-60% spread quarterback from a major school is someone to be avoided.  

 

Josh Allen is neither.

[Ittakestime]

I am not sure what people don't understand that the Bills 1-2 QBs are Darnold then Allen. 

 

People so easily want to give up all this capital, just to sit there and take Allen.  I don't understand it at all.

 

 

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

 

That's a blanket statement...I would agree that a sub-60% spread quarterback from a major school is someone to be avoided.  

 

Josh Allen is neither.

 

Name one besides Stafford. 

[jrober38]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Name one besides Stafford. 

 

Stafford completed over 61% of his passes his Junior year. 

 

Also - no one ever questioned Stafford's accuracy.....

 

Accuracy and completion percentage aren't the same thing. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by jrober38

[Mikey152]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Inaccurate QBs get drafted in the first round all the time, and they all bust. 

 

Just because someone is a first round pick doesn't mean they're any good. 

 

EJ Manuel looked great at the Senior Bowl. Colossal bust in the NFL. 

Jake Locker looked good at the Senior Bowl. Colossal bust in the NFL. 

 

Guys with accuracy problems don't succeed in the NFL. There hasn't been a guy with accuracy problems to become a Franchise QB in at least the past 20 years. 

EJ Manuel, Jake Locker, Josh Freeman, JP Losman, Kyle Boller. The list of strong, mobile, big armed QBs who flamed out in the NFL is long and full of nothing bust guys who were complete busts. 

Accuracy is the most important trait when it comes to being a successful NFL QB. I have no idea why NFL scouts continuously ignore it, but Allen doesn't have adequate accuracy to become a top QB. 

 

Do people ever even think for themselves anymore, or is it just parroting things they hear?

 

Josh Allen is nothing like EJ Manuel.  EJ had a super weird delivery and just looked awkward throwing a football.  It was clear to see he wasn't a natural passer.  You should be comparing him to guys like Roethlisberger, Stafford and Flacco...because those are the guys he is most like.

[BuffAlone]

33 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I seriously wonder if McDermott would take Rosen because of his religious beliefs.

More believable that the Jets pass on him due to Rosen sporting a "f" Trump hat. Jets owner happens to be Trumps British ambassador lol

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

 

Do people ever even think for themselves anymore, or is it just parroting things they hear?

 

Josh Allen is nothing like EJ Manuel.  EJ had a super weird delivery and just looked awkward throwing a football.  It was clear to see he wasn't a natural passer.  You should be comparing him to guys like Roethlisberger, Stafford and Flacco...because those are the guys he is most like.

 

Those are the guys he looks like. His ability as a passer isn't anywhere close to the players you mentioned.

 

None of them came out of college with scouts questioning their accuracy. 

 

There is literally no history of success for guys like Allen over the past 20 years. None. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by jrober38

[McBean]

46 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Plenty of mocks to go around, but Breer is especially plugged in around the league - and he specifically says that he showed the mock to league execs and "didn't get much pushback."  The Josh Allen rumors aren't going away and are either part of an elaborate smokescreen, or...

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/21/mock-draft-sam-darnold-browns-bills-trade-giants-josh-allen-broncos-trade-browns-baker-mayfield

 

2. Buffalo (projected trade with N.Y. Giants): Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming
The Bills have done a nice job building capital for a bold swing. This is one. Allen’s potential is limitless, and his big frame and arm are made for Buffalo, though he has a ways to go.

 

[DFT]

3 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

 

Do people ever even think for themselves anymore, or is it just parroting things they hear?

 

Josh Allen is nothing like EJ Manuel.  EJ had a super weird delivery and just looked awkward throwing a football.  It was clear to see he wasn't a natural passer.  You should be comparing him to guys like Roethlisberger, Stafford and Flacco...because those are the guys he is most like.

Allen to me is Bortles with a ridiculous ceiling.   He has a once in a generation type arm and shockingly good athleticism. But oh boy, his accuracy is questionable at best. He did show up well with improved mechanics, but that changes considerably when you are facing elite pressure.  It would be a gamble that would be hard to rival, in Bills history.  

[BuffaloRebound]

http://draftbreakdown.com/2017/09/08/josh-allen-vs-iowa-2017/

 

Allen had bad stats in this game, but I don't see the accuracy issues everyone is talking about.  From what some people on this board have said about him, I'm surprised how good Allen looked against Iowa when his team was clearly over-matched.  The majority of his throws were on the money and there's probably only 2-3 QB's currently in the NFL who could make some of those throws. I don't trust Rosen.  He could be really good but I'd be happy with Allen at 2.  He's a guy you take a chance on.  His floor is probably lower than Rosen, but that's what you have McCarron for.  Allen has the potential to be the best QB in the game.  

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Stafford completed over 61% of his passes his Junior year. 

 

Also - no one ever questioned Stafford's accuracy.....

 

Accuracy and completion percentage aren't the same thing. 

 

Never said they were. Josh Allen is this classes JP Losman. All the tools scattershot accuracy and decision making 

[Mikey152]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

Those are the guys he looks like. His ability as a passer isn't anywhere close to the players you mentioned.

 

None of them came out of college with scouts questioning their accuracy. 

 

There is literally no history of success for guys like Allen over the past 20 years. None. 

 

Ah yes, because NFL history is littered with smart 6'5 230 lb quarterbacks who run 4.8 40s and can throw the football 80+ yards.

 

This is my whole point.  Josh Allen himself has said he is more accurate than his stats show, and when given an opportunity to prove it on a level playing field he did.  But the narrative remains.  We will see, I guess.  It's not like you will have to eat crow when you are wrong. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

http://draftbreakdown.com/2017/09/08/josh-allen-vs-iowa-2017/

 

Allen had bad stats in this game, but I don't see the accuracy issues everyone is talking about.  From what some people on this board have said about him, I'm surprised how good Allen looked against Iowa when his team was clearly over-matched.  The majority of his throws were on the money and there's probably only 2-3 QB's currently in the NFL who could make some of those throws. I don't trust Rosen.  He could be really good but I'd be happy with Allen at 2.  He's a guy you take a chance on.  His floor is probably lower than Rosen, but that's what you have McCarron for.  Allen has the potential to be the best QB in the game.  

 

Ugh. 

 

I don't see any basis that Allen could become the "best QB in the game" when all of the best QBs in the history of the NFL had elite pin point accuracy. 

 

Brady, Marino, Montana, Brees, Manning, Kelly, Aikman, Elway, etc - all supremely accurate passers until late in their careers. Aside from maybe Marino and Elway's arm strength, Allen is nothing like any of them. 

 

And Allen's floor is unbelievably low. Think EJ Manuel, Josh Freeman, Kyle Boller, JP Losman, etc, out of the NFL after 5 years low...

[DFT]

Just now, Mikey152 said:

 

Ah yes, because NFL history is littered with smart 6'5 230 lb quarterbacks who run 4.8 40s and can throw the football 80+ yards.

 

This is my whole point.  Josh Allen himself has said he is more accurate than his stats show, and when given an opportunity to prove it on a level playing field he did.  But the narrative remains.  We will see, I guess.  It's not like you will have to eat crow when you are wrong. 

I’ll eat a healthy dose of crow if/when I’m wrong about Allen.  I’d have zero issues taking him at 12.  His upside is arguably the second highest of any prospect in this draft (Jackson’s is s tad higher in my opinion).  He could become John Elway.  My gut tells me he will be Blake Bortles though.  I hope I’m wrong though.  I like him personally and love his incredible arm.  I’ve just seen too many things that tell me trading up for him, is too dangerous.

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

 

Ah yes, because NFL history is littered with smart 6'5 230 lb quarterbacks who run 4.8 40s and can throw the football 80+ yards.

 

This is my whole point.  Josh Allen himself has said he is more accurate than his stats show, and when given an opportunity to prove it on a level playing field he did.  But the narrative remains.  We will see, I guess.  It's not like you will have to eat crow when you are wrong. 

 

 

LMAO

 

EJ Manuel - 6'5, 237 pounds, 4.65 forty, huge arm - COLOSSAL BUST

Kyle Boller - 6'4, 234 pounds, 4.65 forty, huge arm - COLOSSAL BUST

Josh Freeman - 6'6, 248 pounds, 4.9 forty, huge arm - COLOSSAL BUST

Jake Locker - 6'3, 231 pounds, 4.59 forty, huge arm - COLOSSAL BUST

 

The fact that he's 6'5, 230 with some mobility doesn't matter if he can't throw accurate passes consistently. 

What matter is if he can consistently move the chains with short accurate passes. That's what all elite NFL QBs do, and have done in the past. 

 

Whether or not he can throw the ball 40 yards on a rope while on the run or 80 yards in the air is irrelevant. It's the other 98% of the passes he makes that dictate success. 

[Mikey152]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Ugh. 

 

I don't see any basis that Allen could become the "best QB in the game" when all of the best QBs in the history of the NFL had elite pin point accuracy. 

 

Brady, Marino, Montana, Brees, Manning, Kelly, Aikman, Elway, etc - all supremely accurate passers until late in their careers. Aside from maybe Marino and Elway's arm strength, Allen is nothing like any of them. 

 

And Allen's floor is unbelievably low. Think EJ Manuel, Josh Freeman, Kyle Boller, JP Losman, etc, out of the NFL after 5 years low...

 

Elway had a career completion percentage of 56.9 and was NEVER considered "pinpoint" accurate, ever...Neither was Favre.  Both are all-time greats.  Russell Wilson is one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL, and I don't think anyone would say accuracy is he best trait.  But sure, lets revise history to support your narrative.

 

Do you know who IS "accurate"?  Nathan Peterman

[Paul Costa]

Every thread about QB’s in this year’s drafts proves the point that we should stay at 12 and reap the benefits of the 6 picks in the top 95. There is no consensus pick. If there was a Andrew Luck or a Matt Stafford then by all means give all our picks away to go get him ? but since there isn’t a consensus pick stay at 12 and take Jackson or BPA. At 22 take Nackson if you didn’t take him at 12. Then take BPA there. Plus second and third round picks would totally turn this team into a young talented team.

[Coach Tuesday]

26 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Sub 60% college QBs do not succeed in modern NFL

 

What was Cam Newton?

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

53 minutes ago, greeneblitz said:

Why cause one guy one time on the internet said the Bills had interest? Rosen is terrible and certainly doesn't fit what the Bills are trying to build.

I think your credibility takes an enormous hit with statements like this.

[Mikey152]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

 

LMAO

 

EJ Manuel - 6'5, 237 pounds, 4.65 forty, huge arm - COLOSSAL BUST

Kyle Boller - 6'4, 234 pounds, 4.65 forty, huge arm - COLOSSAL BUST

Josh Freeman - 6'6, 248 pounds, 4.9 forty, huge arm - COLOSSAL BUST

Jake Locker - 6'3, 231 pounds, 4.59 forty, huge arm - COLOSSAL BUST

 

The fact that he's 6'5, 230 with some mobility doesn't matter if he can't throw accurate passes consistently. 

What matter is if he can consistently move the chains with short accurate passes. That's what all elite NFL QBs do, and have done in the past. 

 

Whether or not he can throw the ball 40 yards on a rope while on the run or 80 yards in the air is irrelevant. It's the other 98% of the passes he makes that dictate success. 

 

4 guys...huge sample size.  and we already talked about EJ.  Not to mention the fact that the statement "huge arm" is complete bull ****.  I could name you 50 quarterbacks who are 6'2" and "Accurate" with insane college numbers that flopped.

 

And Josh Freeman made a pro bowl.  He was a good quarterback in the NFL at one point and considered a future star before it all came crashing down for whatever reason.  Not exactly a great comp.

[BuffaloRebound]

10 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Ugh. 

 

I don't see any basis that Allen could become the "best QB in the game" when all of the best QBs in the history of the NFL had elite pin point accuracy. 

 

Brady, Marino, Montana, Brees, Manning, Kelly, Aikman, Elway, etc - all supremely accurate passers until late in their careers. Aside from maybe Marino and Elway's arm strength, Allen is nothing like any of them. 

 

And Allen's floor is unbelievably low. Think EJ Manuel, Josh Freeman, Kyle Boller, JP Losman, etc, out of the NFL after 5 years low...

 

  I'm not seeing accuracy issues.  Most of his throws were tight window throws right on the money against Iowa in a game where if you just look at his completion percentage, you'd think he struggled with accuracy and was throwing the ball all over the place.  

[bills in oregon]

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

Beane doesn't have the guts to go to 2, he's drunk on his draft capital.

 You act like you want me to jump up to the second pic and you’re pissed because he won’t that’s a lot of capital to give up for one unproven player.

[Sweats]

So, we’re taking a project QB at the number 2 spot?

 

Not bloody likely.

 

 

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

What was Cam Newton?

 

65.4% career. 

[Mikey152]

Just now, BuffaloRebound said:

 

  I'm not seeing accuracy issues.  Most of his throws were tight window throws right on the money against Iowa in a game where if you just look at his completion percentage, you'd think he struggled with accuracy and was throwing the ball all over the place.  

 

That's kind of my point...it's lazy journalism based mostly on numbers, then gets repeated in "scouting reports" and on message boards.

 

When you actually watch him throw a football in games and in shorts, it's clear he is talented.  Maybe he isn't Drew Brees accurate, but he's not Blake Bortles bad, either.

[Da webster guy]

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

Beane doesn't have the guts to go to 2, he's drunk on his draft capital.

 

Oh Chucky.

 

He also likes his job, and realizes his career is staked on this draft.   GM's don't stay employed unless they win, and they don't win without a stud qb.

 

 

[TheBeane]

40 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said:

A QB taken with the 12th pick in the draft should NOT have to "sit for a year or 2."

 

I am by no means saying that he HAS to "sit for a year or 2." Just would nice to have the option.

 

Just breath before being confrontational...

[Mikey152]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

65.4% career. 

 

Do you think Cam is an accurate passer, though?  Because he's not.  At all.  Super streaky.  But he has a great arm and makes plays lots of other guys can't make.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Mikey152

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

What was Cam Newton?

 

A career 65% college passer 

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

Barf. 

 

Allen is terrible. 

everyone is a freaking expert around here.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

30 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Sub 60% college QBs do not succeed in modern NFL

 

This agrees with you. 

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/nfl/news/broncos-trevor-siemian-college-career-stats-northwestern-starter-denver/pgoyeximjcm21skmo47il94em

 

 

There are examples in the 80s and 90s, but not in today’s game. 

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

 

4 guys...huge sample size.  and we already talked about EJ.  Not to mention the fact that the statement "huge arm" is complete bull ****.  I could name you 50 quarterbacks who are 6'2" and "Accurate" with insane college numbers that flopped.

 

And Josh Freeman made a pro bowl.  He was a good quarterback in the NFL at one point and considered a future star before it all came crashing down for whatever reason.  Not exactly a great comp.

 

Josh Freeman was out of the NFL after five years. 

 

Unless that's the type of career we're looking for, that's about as bad a career as a 1st round QB can have. 

 

All of the players I mentioned were as good as, if not better athletes than Allen. All of them also had accuracy problems.

 

All of them were complete busts in the NFL because none of them could move the chains on a consistent basis because they miss too many throws. 

[Da webster guy]

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

Beane doesn't have the guts to go to 2, he's drunk on his draft capital.

 

Oh Chucky.

 

He also likes his job, and realizes his career is staked on this draft.   GM's don't stay employed unless they win, and they don't win without a stud qb.

 

I think Allen could thrive in a place where he had an AJ Green, Julio, etc.   Big targets with big catch radius.  Obviously nobody knows which (if any) of these qb's are going to pan out, but Allen reminds me of Ryan Leaf, which isn't fair to the kid, but I can't help it.

 

 

[DFT]

Just now, Mikey152 said:

 

That's kind of my point...it's lazy journalism based mostly on numbers, then gets repeated in "scouting reports" and on message boards.

 

When you actually watch him throw a football in games and in shorts, it's clear he is talented.  Maybe he isn't Drew Brees accurate, but he's not Blake Bortles bad, either.

I want to clarify...   my opinion is he’ll be closer to Bortles than Elway, but my hope is he’s Wentz.   I’ve watched ridiculous amounts of him.   His mechanics are going to take serious time to develop. He’ll be annihilated by this fan base, too.  I don’t think Buffalo is his best fit.  Denver...   all day!   NYJ, yikes!  But I like him, I just would not trade up to pick him.  He scares me more than any other prospect, just because he’s projected in the top 5.  

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

This agrees with you. 

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/nfl/news/broncos-trevor-siemian-college-career-stats-northwestern-starter-denver/pgoyeximjcm21skmo47il94em

 

 

There are examples in the 80s and 90s, but not in today’s game. 

 

It's unbelievable how people vouch for these QBs every year. 

 

It's like the scene in Money Ball where the old scouts are gushing about how a prospects swing looks, how the bat sounds when he makes contact, etc, and Brad Pitt responds by asking, if he's a good hitter, then why isn't he a good hitter?

That's how I view Allen. I don't care that he looks like a franchise QB or that he can throw a football 80 yards (a completely irrelevant trait in the NFL considering no QB is ever required to throw the ball 80 yards). I care about how well he "passes" the football, and he falls way short in that category due to his very poor accuracy.