Difference between Jackson and Taylor

[Boatdrinks]

Jackson took very few snaps from under center ( the least of the " big five"  I believe ) and if you watch his footwork he does throw from a very narrow " base". That puts too much of the throw on the upper body , but I think this is correctable. Jackson certainly needs to improve his footwork, but so does Mayfield. LJ represents many unknowns, but his talent makes him much more intriguing to me than the " known entity " that Tyrod is. Time to move on, and I think Jackson is a better prospect than Taylor ever was. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

Wilson was also a sub 69% comp guy who jumped to almost 73% his last season when he transferred to Wisconsin

 

He had a "leap" in his accuracy, seemingly overnight

I wonder if Jackson can do the same?

Time will tell.

 

With Wilson, his passing attempts fell from 527 to 309 as his accuracy leapt up.  I suspect (without having watched) play calling, personnel, and coaching had a lot to do with it - perhaps he wasn't asked to do as much with the Badgers?  A couple of clicks show that he top rusher for NC State got ~600 yds but Wisc had 2 RBs who together accounted for 2636 yds.

 

 

[SouthNYfan]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

With Wilson, his passing attempts fell from 527 to 309 as his accuracy leapt up.  I suspect (without having watched) play calling, personnel, and coaching had a lot to do with it - perhaps he wasn't asked to do as much with the Badgers?  A couple of clicks show that he top rusher for NC State got ~600 yds but Wisc had 2 RBs who together accounted for 2636 yds.

 

 

 

Yeah that was what I was thinking

I was just saying that he made a huge jump in accuracy suddenly after changing schools and confs

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

With Wilson, his passing attempts fell from 527 to 309 as his accuracy leapt up.  I suspect (without having watched) play calling, personnel, and coaching had a lot to do with it - perhaps he wasn't asked to do as much with the Badgers?  A couple of clicks show that he top rusher for NC State got ~600 yds but Wisc had 2 RBs who together accounted for 2636 yds.

 

 

I knew it. Wilson is a game manager. Complete garbage. Maybe Seattle should just ship him off to Buffalo for a conditional 6th. ?

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, 1billsfan said:

 

Bucky Brooks is ridiculous with this take. Jackson showed that he can make all of the throws and make it look effortless. He did show some inconsistencies with a few bad passes, but he proved he can make the throws the NFL is looking for in a franchise QB. He seems highly coachable and improved every year in college. Same thing can happen in the pros. Man do they love to pick these guys apart. LOL

 

As for ragging on his inconsistent passing efforts, I just read or heard that Jackson (21) is two years younger than Russell Wilson (23) was when he was drafted, yet he's three inches taller, heavier, and had seven more combined TDs than Wilson did in his last year in college. Just imagine how much better (i.e. accurate, consistent) Jackson will be when he's 23 years old.

 

These guys always overlook the obvious, every year, just like they did with DeSean Watson and Pat Mahomes. They are obsessed with drop back passers from an era that, like it or not, is going away in the NFL sooner than later. The college game refuses to use the pro method of developing QB of that mold. The Bills need to embrace the future and just draft Jackson.

 

 

 

He isnt wrong with the take. He does sail balls and isnt consistent with his base which causes accuracy issues. 

 

The question is can he become more consistent in his mechanics like will be needed in the NFL?

[LABILLBACKER]

12 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

Jackson actually throws people open and takes chances unlike TT and unlike Vick he’s more than comfortable sitting in the pocket than bailing.

 

I’d be really happy if we drafted him. Special talent and he’s a special kid too.

 I agree and I have a sneaking hunch that we will pick him either in the first or second round. He's much more willing to take chances than Tyrod ever did. But  he will have to put on muscle mass to avoid injuries.

[BringBackOrton]

35 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Vick def had a good career overall, he was in MVP talk that one year in Philly, shame about how much wasted potential way left on the table with him though

 

Wilson was also a sub 69% comp guy who jumped to almost 73% his last season when he transferred to Wisconsin

 

He had a "leap" in his accuracy, seemingly overnight

I wonder if Jackson can do the same?

Time will tell.

In college.  Jackson isn't spending the extra year in college that many scouts thought he should.

[McBean]

12 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

 

So some are worried or scared that Lamar Jackson will turn out to be another Tyrod Taylor.. So i Thought I would post both stats and let you decide.

 

Tyrod Taylor

 

PASSING Stats

YEAR		CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	RAT
2007		72	134	53.7	927	6.9	5	59	3	119.7
2008		99	173	57.2	1036	6.0	2	40	7	103.2
2009		136	243	56.0	2311	9.5	13	81	5	149.4
2010		188	315	59.7	2743	8.7	24	69	5	154.8

RUSHING Stats
YEAR		ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD
2007		102	420	4.1	52	6
2008		147	738	5.0	73	7
2009		106	370	3.5	46	5
2010		146	659	4.5	72	5

 

Lamar Jackson 

PASSING Stats
YEAR		CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	RAT
2017		254	430	59.1	3660	8.5	27	78	10	146.6
2016		230	409	56.2	3543	8.7	30	74	9	148.8
2015		135	247	54.7	1840	7.4	12	56	8	126.8

RUSHING Stats
YEAR		ATT	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD
2017		232	1601	6.9	75	18
2016		260	1571	6.0	72	21
2015		163	960	5.9	73	11

 

Notes

1. Jackson is coming out 1 year early but played as starting QB in college 1 year more so thus Jackson comes out more experienced.

2. Jackson best year Passing + Rushing yard total is 5,602 Yards total. Tyrods Total yards on his best year? 3,402 yards. Yes different conference different system but damn.

3. Taylor best year he threw the ball 315 times and 5 INT. Jackson best year threw the ball 430 times with 10 INT.

4. Taylor best year in TD's he had a total of 29 TD's. Jackson total TD's on his best year was 51.

5. Taylor was drafted in 6th round. Jackson is picked to be drafted in round 1 or 2.

 

So with this info in mind I ask you.. Is Lamar Jackson another Vic, Taylor? Or do you think he will be much better?

Thoughts

 

 

 

It sounds like I’m in the minority, but I would be livid with the selection of Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen.

 

Allen flat out sucks. If he didn’t throw a ball 90 yards he would go undrafted. EJ Manuel was better than him in college and looked how that worked out.

 

Jackson scares me because he knows he can run. IMO, that’s going to be a crutch he will lean on in the NFL and will use his legs more than his arm. 

 

I want a traditional pocket passer that sits in the pocket and barely runs.

 

1. Rosen

2. Mayfield 

3. Rudolph

4. Darnold

 

Get me one of the 4. Just say NO to Jackson or Allen.

[1billsfan]

1 hour ago, jmc12290 said:

Wilson was still a much more accurate QB from the pocket when he was drafted.

 

He was also two years older.

 

Also, from what I've read here, Jackson had either the most or second most WR drops this past college season out of the top QBs in this draft. He's not as inaccurate as people are describing him to be. Is he Russell Wilson accurate? No, but even if he gets close to that kind of consistency, then he'll be a top 10 QB in the NFL.

 

Does anyone doubt if Jackson did stay in school another year he'd be the first QB drafted next year and probably be within the top five picks? Draft him now and work him in slowly.

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

 

He was also two years older.

 

Also, from what I've read here, Jackson had either the most or second most WR drops this past college season out of the top QBs in this draft. He's not as inaccurate as people are describing him to be. Is he Russell Wilson accurate? No, but even if he gets close to that kind of consistency, then he'll be a top 10 QB in the NFL.

 

Does anyone doubt if Jackson did stay in school another year he'd be the first QB drafted next year and probably be within the top five picks? Draft him now and work him in slowly.

 

 

It's easier to grow your game with another year in college than it is in the NFL.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm really getting annoyed by the "spin doctors" here.  I sat there and watched QB combine workouts.  I saw a deep R throw by Allen where the WR had to adjust further to the R and the ball was too long for him went off his hands.  They were all over "strong effortless throw".  Similar throw by Jackson where the WR had to adjust but the ball was caught "poor throw, excellent catch".  I'm nowhere near a pundit when things are moving full speed, but when I have tape and can back up and replay,  even I can "get it" and I swear, if you turned off the sound and cut out the QB, you could not distinguish one as great and one as "poor".  I saw some pretty pinpoint throws by Jackson, and some bad ones - but I saw a too-high throw from Mayfield where they're all to the WR "you're 6'2" you got to catch that" and with Jackson all about the bad throw (it was similarly overthrown). 

 

Again, this is not to puff up Jackson and say he's great, but I think if you shuffled some of the throws (and didn't say who the QB was) the pundits would be all confused about what to say on each throw just like the famous "oenophile blind taste test"  .  It's very annoying to folks like myself who are trying to educate ourselves and improve our football knowledge.

 

I liked what I saw of Jackson's footwork and timing in his drops because in the bits of game film where he's throwing from under center, it did NOT look good - his timing was off and he just stood there at the top of his drop - awkward.  He looked much better and smoother (from the footwork perspective) yesterday.

 

 

I trust your assessment. personally though, I hope they pass on him. I'd rather have rosen who likely could start day one vs jackson who may need a year or two?

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm really getting annoyed by the "spin doctors" here.  I sat there and watched QB combine workouts.  I saw a deep R throw by Allen where the WR had to adjust further to the R and the ball was too long for him went off his hands.  They were all over "strong effortless throw".  Similar throw by Jackson where the WR had to adjust but the ball was caught "poor throw, excellent catch".  I'm nowhere near a pundit when things are moving full speed, but when I have tape and can back up and replay,  even I can "get it" and I swear, if you turned off the sound and cut out the QB, you could not distinguish one as great and one as "poor".  I saw some pretty pinpoint throws by Jackson, and some bad ones - but I saw a too-high throw from Mayfield where they're all to the WR "you're 6'2" you got to catch that" and with Jackson all about the bad throw (it was similarly overthrown). 

 

Again, this is not to puff up Jackson and say he's great, but I think if you shuffled some of the throws (and didn't say who the QB was) the pundits would be all confused about what to say on each throw just like the famous "oenophile blind taste test"  .  It's very annoying to folks like myself who are trying to educate ourselves and improve our football knowledge.

 

I liked what I saw of Jackson's footwork and timing in his drops because in the bits of game film where he's throwing from under center, it did NOT look good - his timing was off and he just stood there at the top of his drop - awkward.  He looked much better and smoother (from the footwork perspective) yesterday.

Oh how I love it when people do the work.

 

Teach everyone else starting with TBN

 

 

I myself see Jackson as a second round pick. 

 

If they do that and make him earn the job, and move on without years of excuses if he doesn't take to it right away, I will be fine.

 

There is not much chance of any of that happening though.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie

[transient]

5 hours ago, Steptide said:

I think whatever qb they take, they need make sure this is the guy they think will be the franchise qb for years to come. Picking the wrong guy could set this team back years again 

 

I think this is a bit overstated, actually. I agree with the sentiment if they make the move up the board to get a QB. If they do that they have to have the conviction that he’s the one.

 

If they stand pat and draft the next guy on their board at 21 or 22, while it would suck to be wrong about him and it leaves the team in the same QB purgatory, you haven’t made the sort of investment that would prevent you from addressing the position again the next season, and it won’t cripple the franchise if you had to cut bait. 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

NFL combine

 

winners/losers: Josh Allen trumps Rosen, Jackson

 

Losers: Lamar Jackson, QB, Louisville:

Despite being the most explosive athlete in the quarterback class, the former Heisman Trophy winner decided to bypass the 40 and the rest of the athletic testing drills. Jackson wanted to put the focus on his passing skills during the throwing portion of the workout, but he was unable to string together pinpoint passes for most of the day. Part of his accuracy issues can be attributed to his inconsistent footwork and base, which remain a concern after watching him work out in Indy. Jackson needs to continue to refine his game as a passer to become a proficient QB who is capable of shredding defenses from the pocket. Without a strong athletic performance to offset his passing issues, Jackson missed out on a chance to show the football world how he could impact the game as an explosive dual-threat play maker.

If Lamar had participated in the athletic drills these same people would be drooling all over him and talking about how inconsistancies in footwork could be corrected with coaching.......

 

Lamar to me is looking like his own man and going his own way more and more......

[reddogblitz]

13 hours ago, simool said:

Damn good quarterback who let his personal life kill any chance of sustained NFL success. Well that and playing for/in Atlanta

 

He went to the NFC  championship game with Atlanta.  They beat Green Bay IN Green Bay in the playoffs.

Edited March 4, 2018 by reddogblitz

[Jamie Mueller]

14 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Under the right scenario I'd take him at 21. The risk/reward ratio is worth it imo.

 

Agree with this I think... the real question with anyone outside the top 4 QBs in the draft is what do you do while waiting for them to develop?  I don't mind thinking about Lamar Jackson leading the Bills after he's had a chance to learn the pro game... but anything other than moving up means finding that "caretaker" quarterback for next season.  Most people on this board seem reluctant to keep Tyrod for another year... but if we're not playing in the Cousins sweepstakes, the alternatives are pretty sketchy.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Jamie Mueller

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Jamie Mueller said:

 

Agree with this I think... the real question with anyone outside the top 4 QBs in the draft is what do you do while waiting from them to develop?  I don't mind thinking about Lamar Jackson leading the Bills after he's had a chance to learn the pro game... but anything other than moving up means finding that "caretaker" quarterback for next season.  Most people on this board seem reluctant to keep Tyrod for another year... but if we're not playing in the Cousins sweepstakes, the alternatives are pretty sketchy.

A lot of people would hate it.....but if we are gonna draft a guy like Jackson TT would not be the worst 1 year starter in the world......

 

What if this team could find a way to recapture its offense where it was 6th in the NFL in points but with a actual defense?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Oh how I love it when people do the work.

Teach everyone else starting with TBN

I myself see Jackson as a second round pick. 

If they do that and make him earn the job, and move on without years of excuses if he doesn't take to it right away, I will be fine.

There is not much chance of any of that happening though.

 

IMO Jackson, Rudolph, and Allen all fit "Buffalo716" definition of "high end prospect" - a guy who may become a long term starter but who will likely need some development. 

 

They may well all be drafted in the first because of supply vs demand but I'm gonna guess, "no"

 

[MPT]

14 hours ago, racketmaster said:

In Taylor’s defense, he played for a very conservative HC not known to have dynamic and creative offenses. Clearly, Jackson is the more explosive athlete and he has a better arm but he was also aided by an offensive mind who knew how to take advantage of his skill set and minimize his flaws. 

 

Jackson is a better playmaker but he is also more mistake prone. Taylor rarely turned over the ball but Jackson will make a few off target throws (usually high) that will end up as ints in the Nfl.

 

I see Jackson as a qb that can play and be effective immediately but there won’t be much progression as a passer (players generally are who they are at this point). As defenses better scheme against Jackson he will likely struggle to adjust because he has been a 1-2 read then run player his whole career. 

 

That said, with a creative offensive mind Jackson could be a lot of fun to watch for a few years and should at least be a mid range starter with a good OC because he has freakish gifts as as runner and thrower. 

 

I agree with all of this. Jackson is a better player than Tyrod, but he's still going to need an offensive system catered to his strengths and weaknesses more than a prototypical pocket passer would. The Bills were completely unwilling to do that with Tyrod last year, but I'm hoping the change in OC will bring more creativity and flexibility to the offense that would allow a player like Jackson to reach his potential as a playmaker. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, MPT said:

 

I agree with all of this. Jackson is a better player than Tyrod, but he's still going to need an offensive system catered to his strengths and weaknesses more than a prototypical pocket passer would. The Bills were completely unwilling to do that with Tyrod last year, but I'm hoping the change in OC will bring more creativity and flexibility to the offense that would allow a player like Jackson to reach his potential as a playmaker. 

 

The best coaching staffs realize it's about maximizing player talents by adopting schemes to fit talent.  Emphasize the talent of the Jimmys and Joes.